Need New Fuel Sending Unit ASAP

Started by Schwarzkopf9, July 02, 2016, 04:18 PM

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Schwarzkopf9

Hey guys, has anyone had trouble finding the correct in tank fuel sender? I have a 1983 Winne Brave with the 454 and 70gal tank, mechanical fuel pump. I had to drop the tank after being stranded on a trip. Towed home and now enjoying the project N:( Ive called napa and oriely and they can't seem to find it. To top it off, Im in a rush cause we gotta take it out next weekend. Any help would be much appreciated!

Rickf1985

If all else fails call Winnebago, I am sure they have it but you are going to pay a premium for it from them. Did you try a search on here? I remember someone having this same problem a while ago and they solved it. There were pictures and I am pretty sure there were numbers. I do not remember who it was though.

Schwarzkopf9

Hey Rick, I did a search but am having slightly different problems. I Had to drop the tank due to the fuel pickup in the tank being clogged. After two attempts(and replacing a starter in an SA parking lot) of blasting air into the line to clear it, it would only idle for 10 mins before clogging again and starving the engine. So, I decided to drop the tank and clean it (of course like a good driver, I topped the tank off before heading out...lol). I only dropped the tank this morning and haven't actually had time to see what the inside looks like, that's tomorrows project! I though it a good idea to at least have one ordered in case something goes wrong ;). I'm hoping that it will just need a good cleaning but, she's and old girl...

Rickf1985

Are you sure it is the in tank pick up that is clogging? Have you checked the filter that is halfway up the rig? Usually in the vicinity of the entrance door. There should be an inline fuel filter than never gets changed.

Schwarzkopf9

I actually changed that last year because it was clogged...lol. I installed a clear filter so I could inspect it. When I had the problem this weekend, it was empty. Which would lead me to believe its a tank problem.

circleD

The only advice I can give you is to put all NEW everything on the tank while its down. Hoses, sending unit, bolts and nuts, etc. When you pull the old sending unit out make your measurements and which side it is. Don't get a universal unit. With the measurements Summit racing will probably have all you need.

Rickf1985

If the tank was cleaned and the in tank filter replaced I do not see how it is getting clogged. It takes a LOT of crap to clog one of those socks. Are you sure you do not have a cracked or loose line and maybe just pulling air? Have all of the rubber lines been replaced?

Schwarzkopf9

just emptied and cleaned the tank this am. not a lot of crap but a little. Certainly not enough to clog the pickup (which I found is sockless...) It does look like a bit of water was in there but prob not too much to get worked up about. Im going to check/replace all the soft lines from the tank, could one be collapsing on the inside? Perhaps there is an air leak like Rick suggested. All I know is it starved for fuel, I opened the line and shot some air back into the tank from the supply line - fuel started to flow, so I put the line back together and fired it up - idled for 10 min then starves  out. Repeated this twice with same results. I have replaced the (mechanical) fuel pump last month just before this started because it just started leaking in the driveway. Not sure if this would affect it this way or not. maybe all the rubber in the fuel system decided to go at the same time? The search continues... i??

Rickf1985

If these are the original lines it is quite possible for one of the lines to be collapsing. What you are describing sounds all the world like the tank is going into vacuum though, very consistent. try it again and immediately go and undo the gas cap and see if you hear a rush of air into the tank. You may have a clogged tank vent or if the tank is unvented then you need a vented gas cap. Still, replace the lines while the tank is down.

Schwarzkopf9

Okay, tank is clean, all lines replaced and its back on the Brave. Also blew compressed air through the hard lines and replaced the filter. Just waiting on a filler neck 90 degree elbow I had to special order, NAPA and Oriely were NIS for these. Should be up and running tomorrow am, I'll post results. As for the sending unit, since its not obstructed or overly rusted, I'm going to re use it. I think the accuracy is iffy because it was jumping around when I ohmd it out and moved the arm. Not too bothered, I never trusted what it said anyway. I'm cutting it close to my trip on Thursday and haven't got the time to wait on a new one. I made a few mods to make it easier to remove later down the road. Just in case. Its really not that bad once you know what your working with, I could probably drop that thing in 20 minutes now! :)

Schwarzkopf9

Got the filler neck together this morning, put 5 gallons in the tank, started and ran on high idle for 25 minutes (before it would only do 10-15 before dying out). Felt confident so I was gonna run to the gas station and fill up but died out as soon as I got 300 feet. at this point I was guessing that when I put the 5 gal in, the back wheels were up on blocks so it was angled to the point that the fuel was reaching the pickup. Where it died out was up a slight incline so my guess is that the small amount that I put in wasn't enough to supply the engine and that angle. I ran to the gas station, came back and put about 10 gallons more in, fired it up and took it around the block and ran nice! I didn't have time to do much more driving than that but I'll get it done tomorrow...if it doesn't leave me stranded! Anyone know how much of the tanks capacity is unusable fuel? Its a 70 gal tank.

Rickf1985

When you figure the physical size of that tank and think about how thin a coating of ten gallons is going to be on the bottom all spread out I would venture a guess that at 15 gallons you are pushing it, as you move around it will suck it up as it sloshes by but at some point it will get more air than gas. Unless you have one of the tanks that is angled in the back to make the bottom a smaller foot print.

Think about it this way, how close do you ever want to push it when the engine is sucking gas down at the rate of an ounce every 2 seconds at 60 MPH. At 6 MPG you are going through not quite a quart per mile! Now pour a quart bottle of water out and picture that as gasoline going into the carburetor.

Damn I am cruel ain't I? :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

Schwarzkopf9

After the drive today, problem still persists... N:( Drove about 5 miles, filled with gas, drove 5 miles and parked but, after a few minutes of idling it stalled out again. I got a new mechanical fuel pump(again) because my problems didn't start until right after I changed that pump out(it was leaking fuel pretty bad). It wouldn't be the first time I had bad from stock parts. FYI there is no electric pump on this rig, just the mechanical. I know this is turning into a new thread but, I gotta get this figured out. Was supposed to take it camping last week but that got cancelled, was supposed to take it camping this weekend but we had to change our plans to a cabin, co worker was gonna take it moday but, hes now looking to just rent a camper elsewhere. Just hope its ready for August...lol The Joys!

Schwarzkopf9

Oh I forgot to mention! The tow truck driver had to disconnect my driveshaft last week to tow it i?? NowI have a vibration while driving! Should look into that one.

Rickf1985

Disconnect drive shaft and rotate 180 degrees and hook back up, if that does not get rid of vibration then file a complaint with the tow company but it should.

Have you tried loosening the gas cap to see if the tank is going into vacuum? Sure sounds like it. This could boil down to a new gas cap.

M & J

M & J

TerryH

I agree. Any time you remove the driveshaft you should mark shaft to yoke and shaft to tranny and reinstall in the same position.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are - it is our choices.
Albus Dumbledore

legomybago

Throw an electric pump on it. Not at it, on it! W% And/or first put a fuel pressure gauge on it and see what pressure you are getting at the carb. Should be around 7 on that 440.
Never get crap happy with a slap happy pappy

Rickf1985

7 is pretty high, you could have flooding issues, you really need around 5 lbs. BUT, you do need very good volume. High volume and lower pressure is key to keeping a carb happy on one of these.

Schwarzkopf9

Sorry i dont remember of i said it but its the 454 chev p30. I think the problem im having is vapor lock. Not sure because, ive owned this rig for four years now and have never had an problem with that until i changed that mechanical pump. Would a pump newely minted be more prone to lock than the factory? I got the pump from Oriely which may explain low quality standards with the new one if it proves to be the culprit. I picked up a new one from napa plus ordered an electric low press(4 to 5 psi) pump whichi plan to install. I've been reading that electrics are pretty good at getting rid of vapor lock issues. Is there any truth to that? Thanks for all the tips so far guys!

Rickf1985

Yes to the bad new pump, seen it over and over. The major companies no longer make them because there is so little demand ie. little profit, so they leave it for the aftermarket Chinese outfits. And yes an electric pump can help but it needs to be mounted very close to the gas tank. The main reason for problems now and not before is the alcohol in the gas, it boils at a lower temperature. And it has to be a quality pump, not one of these 19.95 specials.

Schwarzkopf9

Okay, confidence is now now high that I found the problem! I took the Oriely brand pump back off the block and compared to a pump that I got from Napa. The return port on the Oriely on the right side of the photo looks like it has some sort of restrictor in it(its not a good photo because it doesn't show down this tube. It actually gets down to about a pin size hole) where as the return on the left pump from Napa is wide open. My theory is that the Oriely wasnt returning fuel to the tank fast enought to prevent the system from vapor locking. Anyone concur? It was returning fuel because i could hear trickling in the tank while running, my guess is that it just wasn't enough. I'll test it tomorrow but at least for now, i have something to point at!

Schwarzkopf9

Sorry cant get the pic up, too big

Rickf1985

The return line is supposed to be restricted, if it is not then you will not get any fuel pressure at the carb. All you are looking to do with the return is to keep a small amount of fuel moving through the line and to also bypass any vapor back to the tank. Pressure is a result of restriction in any application where there is measured pressure. If you open up the fuel line wide open, as in take it off the carb and just let it flow into a can the fuel pressure at that time in the line will be zero because there is no restriction.he fuel will follow the path of least resistance so there has to be more restriction in the return line then there is in the main line or all of the gas would flow back the return line and none to the carburetor. It is kind of hard to explain.

legomybago

I was curious about the return port plug on both the mechanical pumps I replaced on our rig, I'm pretty sure the original factory pump return line didn't have a restrictor plug in the return line port. I never did remove the plug though on the new pumps, one of the pumps casting exploded internally (great QC). You should do an experiment, check fuel pressure with the plug, then check pressure without the plug. That's the only way to put this to bed.
Never get crap happy with a slap happy pappy