1986 holiday rambler cranks but won't start

DaveVA78Chieftain · April 14, 2017, 10:29 PM

If this is a JD chassis, then I used the RV chassis wiring diagram which starts on page 40-30-1 (pdf page 318). I only see one relay up in the right front area. The ignition module, regulator, and fusible links are up in the area though. I am sure of those because I had a friend that had a charging problem I helped him isolate once. That other relay may have been added by the coach manufacturer for something else.
Good luck

dakattack · April 17, 2017, 10:22 AM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on April 12, 2017, 08:52 AM
You said you had two tanks didn't you? If that is the case it is unlikely that both relays and both pumps are bad if in fact you do have two of each. I would be looking at a bad oil pressure safety switch if that is the case.

Rick, would that affect the starting as well? Im going to be checking the inline fuel filters in a bit to see if im getting fuel up to that point

CapnDirk · April 17, 2017, 03:14 PM

How do you switch from tank to tank, manual/mechanical valve, or electric valve?

dakattack · April 17, 2017, 04:39 PM

Quote from: CapnDirk on April 17, 2017, 03:14 PM
How do you switch from tank to tank, manual/mechanical valve, or electric valve?

Manual switch under the steering column. I checked both filters and fuel flow is very strong so im hoping that means the pump is working.

CapnDirk · April 17, 2017, 05:35 PM

Would that be an electric switch or manual valve we are talking about?

Not being terribly up on Ford chassis my guess is that your switching tanks with some sort of electric solenoid BEFORE a pump unless they put a pump in EACH tank. It would be more efficient and less prone to failure (and cheaper from manufacturing) than a pump in each tank.

Others are more up on the Fords than I, but if you have flow from the fuel filters my next question would be if it has a mechanical pump on the motor to. I'm assuming yes, but others would know better. If so and it has failed there are valves inside it to flow ie pull in, and push out. If that has failed the electric pump would not be able to push past the manual pump.

I've also known many engines to have a push rod going down to the finger of the manual pump which is spring loaded. Rod pushes down from camshaft, pump finger returns on its own. These can break which shuts down a good fuel pump.

Some food for thought, others will no doubt add in what the 460 motorhome had for fuel system. If you have fuel out the filters, something down range is restricting it.

Rickf1985 · April 17, 2017, 05:50 PM

If you have strong flow from the filter then the fuel pump is working. I am also curious to know if there is a pump in each tank or is the pump after the transfer valve? So you have strong fuel flow at the filter but no start and no fuel flow showing in the throttle body? That would indicate a couple possibilities. It could be a bad crank position sensor or cam sensor depending on which your unit uses. If it does not sense any rpm it will not turn on the injectors. It could be a bad ground for the ECM, That is a common problem on older units of all types. What are you doing to turn on the fuel pump?

DRMousseau · April 18, 2017, 02:18 PM

Quote from: dakattack
I checked both filters and fuel flow is very strong so im hoping that means the pump is working.

mmmm,... I'm finding a few things confusing here, but we'll sort that out later.

You have "HOPES" that the pump is working,... so let's be EXTRA certain.
You noted that "fuel flow is very strong",... in what way??? Volume?? How fast will it fill a 2-litre soda bottle??? Pressure??? Is it steady flow??? Pulsating? Does it squirt some distance??? How far?? and from WHERE exactly?? The filter inlet line? or the filter outlet??? Can it be stopped by finger pressure??? And exactly how or why is fuel flowing? Engine turning over?? Or is key jus resting in "on" position??? Or is key off???

While the lines all run ABOVE the tank level, siphoning isn't likely. But if a line is lowered below the fuel level BEFORE disconnecting,... siphoning IS a possibility. You noted full tanks, this also makes siphoning an easier possibility. IF, there is any "air pressure" in the tank, due to warming day or whatever, than fuel flow could "APPEAR" to be quiet significant even with the key off!!!! So loosen fuel tank cap, listen for pressure,.... check flow AGAIN, while holding line or filter ABOVE tank levels if possiable,..... still "very strong"

SOOOOOO,..... can ya be jus a bit more clear in this matter???

IF, you truly believe that the flow and pressure from the filter IS from an activated fuel supply system (gas cap loosened, engine running or key on, pump pressure, etc.), WITH a "very strong flow", then allow the fuel from the filter to safely flow into a container (time this if possible and make sure container is adequate), and while flowing, go listen closely to each tank. Put your ear right to it, or use a screwdriver tip on the tank while listening to the handle firmly against your ear. YOU WILL hear the fuel pump IF there is one in your tank and IF it is running with "very strong" flow.

Now this all assuming that the fuel filters ARE on the frame rail, right??? Exactly WHERE on the frame rail??? This matter AND some of those above, are important to determine if you have electric fuel pump,.... or a mechanical fuel pump! Or have you DEFINATELY established that? Sounds like you have by your assessment and questions of the electrical systems and relays.

Once you have established that you DO have working fuel pumps (and the type, were assuming electric), and you can turn them off at will to STOP the flow at the filter,..... THEN we'll progress to the next component "down stream", or towards the engine/carburetor end (this IS carbureted, yes??? or is it injected?). The NEXT component may be a flow regulator, tank selector valve, or even a pressure regulator or something else. And we'll get to that next as you should also have the same flow at the inlet to that component, as you do from the filter jus before.

Rickf1985 · April 18, 2017, 07:51 PM

This is a fuel injected engine so if the pump is running he is going to be moving a LOT of gas fast so testing could get hazardous real quick. Don't try to stop the flow with your finger! Fuel injection pumps can build a LOT of pressure.

dakattack · April 19, 2017, 06:35 PM

Ok guys, today, my son pulled the carb, it is the Holley, and he will be rebuilding it, someone in the comments advised to do this since its an older rig and certainly will not hurt. I'm waiting on his call now to advise me of whether there was strong fuel flow at the main fuel line. He is a certified mechanic so he wants to rebuild, reinstall, and then do a complete check. Also in the statements, it was advised that the problem could very well be in the carb. Hopefully, this is the solution, and ill be road ready soon.! I'll keep you guys posted, and thanks again for all the help! Stay tuned!!

Rickf1985 · April 19, 2017, 06:49 PM

So this is NOT fuel injected?! I guess we will just leave it to the son. Let us know what the outcome was so we have the information for the next person that has a problem. We have very little information on Fords and every little but helps.

DRMousseau · April 20, 2017, 06:23 AM

I'm thinkin' this is probably a good idea. As I noted,... mine ran poorly and started hard too, and the carb was pretty gunky. It took me 10hr to rebuild my Holly/MotorCraft carb,... I'm old, retired, and take breaks every hour, lol! A rebuild kit is roughly $40, a rebuilt carb is in excess of $300,.... so it's time well spent and worthwhile as it IS within most folks capabilities.

and remember,... it's gonna start much easier. Pump it more than once or twice and it'll flood out, heck, it's an old carbureted Ford! It's jus the way they are!

Now I had noticeably less fuel flow from the line at the carb inlet than at the filter, but that's because of the regulator jus before the end of the fuel line, and it "shouldn't" be cause for alarm. I'm thinkin' this carb rebuild is gonna be pretty significant for ya.

dakattack · April 21, 2017, 05:55 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on April 19, 2017, 06:49 PM
So this is NOT fuel injected?! I guess we will just leave it to the son. Let us know what the outcome was so we have the information for the next person that has a problem. We have very little information on Fords and every little but helps.

I sure will Rick, He was pretty excited to work on it since I made a deal, he fixes it, and he and his fiancÃ©e can use it a cpl times!

dakattack · April 21, 2017, 05:59 PM

Quote from: DRMousseau on April 20, 2017, 06:23 AM
I'm thinkin' this is probably a good idea. As I noted,... mine ran poorly and started hard too, and the carb was pretty gunky. It took me 10hr to rebuild my Holly/MotorCraft carb,... I'm old, retired, and take breaks every hour, lol! A rebuild kit is roughly $40, a rebuilt carb is in excess of $300,.... so it's time well spent and worthwhile as it IS within most folks capabilities.

and remember,... it's gonna start much easier. Pump it more than once or twice and it'll flood out, heck, it's an old carbureted Ford! It's jus the way they are!

Now I had noticeably less fuel flow from the line at the carb inlet than at the filter, but that's because of the regulator jus before the end of the fuel line, and it "shouldn't" be cause for alarm. I'm thinkin' this carb rebuild is gonna be pretty significant for ya.

Thanks again for the help doc, and I'll be posting his findings, weathers getting nicer and the lake and a campsite is calling my name!!

dakattack · September 05, 2017, 07:11 PM

Good Evening guys! I promised an update along, long time ago,, and well, here it is!!! Sorry, got involved with other projects and time, she just keeps on marching on,, ok, my 1986 Holiday Rambler, as you recall had issues back in December with the fuel system, filled the tanks, and it died and would not start. My mechanic, well, hes an ex mechanic now, told me it was the starter and I needed a new radiator, etc, etc. I spoke with my step son and he agreed to put a new Holley carb on it, long story short, after the new carb, and all the tinkering that goes with it, we still couldnt figure out why the fuel pump wasn't kicking on. I then decided to get a new battery, and come to find the Starter Solenoid, by the battery was bad. I replaced that as a last resort before taking it to an RV dealer, jumped in and turned the key, and damn near fell outta the rig when it fired up!! Now, I dunno if it was the new battery, or the new starter solenoid but its up and running just in time to winterize and waity for next season. Thanks for all the tips guys, and thank the RV gods i dont have to drop the fuel tanks!!

TerryH · October 01, 2017, 08:00 PM

Defective replacement coil? Very possible, especially if manufactured offshore.

DaveVA78Chieftain · October 01, 2017, 08:00 PM

I suspect you have a fusible link breaking down and opening up once it heats up from current flowing through it. Once it cools down it makes contact again so you can start it. I believe there are 3 fusible links on the starter relay and another one under the dash leading to the ignition switch.

Also, there are 2 circuits in the ignition switch that supply the coil. One is used to provide full voltage to the coil in start. The 2nd one (run) routes power through a resistor (ballast)

plockit007 · October 01, 2017, 08:01 PM

Sorry to hear you are having issues..also take a look at the voltage regulator. It doers sound like a coil issue. I just upgraded mine from a 20,000 to a 30,000 and have no problems. Good Luck take lots of pictures.

Rickf1985 · October 01, 2017, 08:02 PM

I would be testing the distributor to see if it is getting power during the no start conditions. If it is not getting power then you probably have a bad ignition switch. Always check the power tree before throwing parts at it so you know where the issue lies.

dakattack · October 01, 2017, 08:02 PM

Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on September 29, 2017, 08:06 PM
I suspect you have a fusible link breaking down and opening up once it heats up from current flowing through it. Once it cools down it makes contact again so you can start it. I believe there are 3 fusible links on the starter relay and another one under the dash leading to the ignition switch.

Also, there are 2 circuits in the ignition switch that supply the coil. One is used to provide full voltage to the coil in start. The 2nd one (run) routes power through a resistor (ballast)

Thank you sir, did not think of the fusible links. I'll have to check em a little closer.

dakattack · October 01, 2017, 08:04 PM

Hello again Rick, good to see you again! the distributer does have power, I believe i may be looking into the fusible links a little closer. I am getting closer to being road ready though.

Rickf1985 · October 01, 2017, 08:04 PM

Fusible links would be in the same category as the ignition switch. If they were going out there would be no power to the distributor. It is good to check them though because I have had issues with Ford links blowing for no reason on the road before in pickups a lot. They are cheap so I would just replace them to be on the safe side. Check all the grounds at the computer and the block and the body. It is tedious work but they can cause no end of problems.

Rickf1985 · October 02, 2017, 02:31 PM

And something else I just thought of, (us old guys take a while sometimes i?? )The Ford plugs for the distributor (Most of the plugs for that matter) tend to get corroded inside and can cause intermittent issues. It is a good idea to unplug and plug them back in a few times to clean the contacts.

Tangerine · February 02, 2023, 04:42 AM

Hi! New here. I have the same exact rig and same problem. Can anyone tell me if the fuel pump is inside the tank, on top of the tank, or in the front of the engine? Really don't want to have to drop the tank if I don't have to. Tell me somethjn' good! Any manuals available?

Mlw · February 04, 2023, 09:48 AM

Hi there,

Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately I can't help you with exact information but as it is a little quiet at the forum I cna at least give you some info so you can search for yourself (and get to know your RV better.)

As far as I can see it is not the same Rig. This topic is about a Holliday Rambler based on a John Deere chassis with a Ford engine and not a Chevy on a P30 chassis, So this is about a Completely different Chassis and a completely different engine.

However there is a very easy way to find out if you have an electrical pump or not. Open the hood and check if a mechanical pump is there on your engine. if there is a mechanical pump there shouldn't be an electrical pump installed unless one of the previous owners installed it.

Further you can decode your Vin number to have the exact info for your chassis and engine if you haven't done that.

Chevy Vin decoder

When you have the exact information there are a lot of manuals to be found in PDF format on the forum. However they are in the member area.

You can become a member for a year or a full time member. I promise you, It's well worth the money

Membership

On the main page of the forum you can go to the chevy section. type "Holiday rambler" in the search area and make sure the searchmode is on "This board" and not the entire forum. You then will get the info for Chevy's only.

Hope this will at least get you a few steps further.

Good Luck

DaveVA78Chieftain · February 05, 2023, 02:17 AM

Quote from: Tangerine on February 02, 2023, 04:42 AMHi! New here. I have the same exact rig and same problem. Can anyone tell me if the fuel pump is inside the tank, on top of the tank, or in the front of the engine? Really don't want to have to drop the tank if I don't have to. Tell me somethjn' good! Any manuals available?

First you are posting in the Oshkosh (John Deere) chassis with a Ford 460 engine area however your bio says you have a Chevy P30 chassis with a 454. 2 different chassis Mfg's with different implementations. Need to verify whether you have a Oshkosh or Chevy chassis first.