Started a project today to remove the radiator to get some room..

[BrandonMc]

.. just to get at the belts. Going to have some room to wrap the fuel line with some hot rodder heat wrap, replace the thermostat, replace upper and lower coolant hoses, gee what else... I'm forgetting something.
I do happen to have a water pump on spare and also a timing chain. What do you think? good time to replace? I'm currently at 53,000miles??

I can't really access the belts up top, so the radiator has to come off. I found it to be full of dust and debris and could shake it all out when i pulled it. No wonder it's running a little hot and could contribute to the vapor locking on those warm summer days. So that's going to be thoroughly washed.

Check what else I found. Bad climate controls belt, completely trashed. So Its kinda clear to me this radiator needs to be rodded out?  W%      

[circleD]

I'll tell you like I've told everyone else starting to clean up an old RV. While you're in there replace what you can and within your budget to prevent any issues in the next 10 plus years. Clean up everything else and paint it with good paint. Make it count. I'm sure you have realized that it's not easy or fun to get that far in so do some preventive maintenance.

[TerryH]

I do happen to have a water pump on spare and also a timing chain. What do you think? good time to replace? I'm currently at 53,000miles 

My opinion - timing chain is a fairly major undertaking to replace. If required, it does open up a large number of other parts to check at the same time. If not required, a lot of work simply because you happen to have a spare.

[tmsnyder]

I'm right where you are at the moment!   Took out the A/C condensor and radiator.  Even though it doesn't need it, I'm changing the water pump and fan clutch.   Air pumps are already gone. It does need power steering pump and I've got that out too.   Only using AC Delco parts, I've had too many off brand parts go bad after only a couple years.


I might do the alternator while there and just put the old working one in the coach, just-in-case. 


Thought about doing the harmonic balancer and seal but decided not to.  It's not leaking and the balancer looks fine.   


The timing chain should be perfectly fine at 50k, and mine only has 20k on it. 


My radiator is shot, rotted out and leaking.   Thought about having it recored, we do have a good rad shop in Buffalo but RockAuto had a replacement listed, APDI 8011544 for $202.   It's aluminum with plastic end caps crimped on.  Made in China which makes me nervous as heck but I did some research and the company does have good reviews, they make a ton of OEM radiators.   I'm going to give it a try, it looks like a direct replacement for the old one.  Tranny cooler lines are a little farther apart but that's the only dimensional difference.  No cap, it re-uses the fill spout from the original.


What are you doing with your A/C system?  You must have pulled that before the radiator.  When it's back together I'm using DuraCool instead of R-12 to refill it, it's supposed to seep out slower, run colder and lower pressure than 134a conversion.

[BrandonMc]

I'm right where you are at the moment!
The timing chain should be perfectly fine at 50k, and mine only has 20k on it. 

What are you doing with your A/C system?  You must have pulled that before the radiator.  When it's back together I'm using DuraCool instead of R-12 to refill it, it's supposed to seep out slower, run colder and lower pressure than 134a conversion.

That's awesome! I'm digging in more this afternoon.
I was thinking about not doing the water pump or timing chain because of the old adage of if it 'aint broke don't fix it. And also, it seems to be okay. My radiator must be in better condition. Its actually in tact, and most of those channels appear to flow. I really want to see if I can't save the money and add some detergent and boiling water in there. I am spending 100 here, 1000 there. 50 here, 80 there, 350.....  you get the idea. This thing gets so expensive!!

Interesting to see about your AC system, I hadn't really thought about it quite yet about what to do, so I can mostly learn from you. Are you going to be able to do the recharge yourself? I was thinking refrigerant would be like another 100 at a shop.


Hey, so how did you know your air pumps were bad? I need to leave that stuff on because I live in an emissions county. It just needs to be physically present.

My opinion - timing chain is a fairly major undertaking to replace. If required, it does open up a large number of other parts to check at the same time. If not required, a lot of work simply because you happen to have a spare.

This is now going to be my conclusion as well, thanks for pushing me over that line. So long as these components last another 50k, it's probably fine to leave them as spares, I've been carried away purchasing things to replace back when I knew a little less about what I was doing and hadn't even inspected the systems.

I'll tell you like I've told everyone else starting to clean up an old RV. While you're in there replace what you can and within your budget to prevent any issues in the next 10 plus years. Clean up everything else and paint it with good paint. Make it count. I'm sure you have realized that it's not easy or fun to get that far in so do some preventive maintenance.

I've been going a little overboard on a few things, got carried away with purchasing some things - Ended up replacing anything that looks like it needs it and then a little extra within budget. I definitely want to get in there and never go back so far as this job is concerned, so there's always this consideration!!   

[turbinebronze]

If your interested...You can check timing chain slack with the timing marks on the timing chain housing. (The newer engines wont have this). Turn the engine over by hand in one direction until you reach the zero mark on the cover with the damper. Remove the dist. cap and have someone watch for rotor movement. Turn the engine the opposite way until the rotor moves. Stop turning the engine at that point. Read the timing mark on the cover, or the damper, depending on how it's built. All you've done is move all the slack to the opposite side of the chain, and you can read how much slop in degrees on the timing cover or damper.  If I remember right, 6 degrees was max on a Chrysler engine. 
Just my 2 cents, Craig

[tmsnyder]

Yeah these things add up pretty quickly.  It's hard to know where to stop replacing stuff 'just in case it fails and leaves me on the side of the road.'


We probably don't need to change the water pump, I'm just doing it b/c it's cheap and I'm pretty much there already.  Chevy water pumps are really bullet proof.  If they do start to fail it's by leaking out the snout slowly at first gradually getting worse, so you would have plenty of time to get somewhere to repair it, it's not catastrophic. I don't think they ever lose pumping ability.


I took off the air pumps b/c one was locked up and had no belt on it, and I'm not in a smog state, after 25 years old I believe it's vintage anyway and exempt from emissions in NY. You can change yours when they lock up and ruin the belt.


All my R-12 leaked out, so having to fix the radiator meant removing the condensor anyway.  Not having to recover the r12 made that job easier.  I have to find that leak though b/c I really want that A/C working for next summer.   When it goes back together it will be with a new drier, pump it down to verify no leaks and recharge with duracool not R12 or 134a.

[BrandonMc]

All my R-12 leaked out, so having to fix the radiator meant removing the condensor anyway.  Not having to recover the r12 made that job easier.  I have to find that leak though b/c I really want that A/C working for next summer.   When it goes back together it will be with a new drier, pump it down to verify no leaks and recharge with duracool not R12 or 134a.

How are you going to be accomplishing the recharge? Are you doing it yourself? I'd like to know if I can possibly do it, or just get it done.

[tmsnyder]

I have a friend with a vacuum pump and set of gauges.  You pump it down to really close to absolute vacuum, something like 30+ inches of mercury vaccum, close the valve and see if the vaccum leaks out. If no leak, you start the engine and turn the a/c on max cool and start adding refrigerant until the pressures on each side of the compressor are up to the appropriate levels, disconnect and done.


Duracool is not a freon product, it's basically a blend of propane and other "-anes" which are proprietary but not harmful to the planet, no license or anything needed to use them. Similar to 134a which every WalMart in the world sells, but supposed to be better than 134a.  I'm going to find out.

[tmsnyder]

I should have just typed 'youtube' lol

[circleD]

Just an FYI BrandonMc. I replaced my water pump two years ago while i was redoing things like you and used a non name brand. It was leaking today and im done with it so you get what you pay for.

[BrandonMc]

It was leaking today and im done with it so you get what you pay for.

$26.00 on Rock Auto???!   Hm? W%

I have a friend with a vacuum pump and set of gauges.  You pump it down to really close to absolute vacuum, something like 30+ inches of mercury vaccum, close the valve and see if the vaccum leaks out. If no leak, you start the engine and turn the a/c on max cool and start adding refrigerant until the pressures on each side of the compressor are up to the appropriate levels, disconnect and done.

Awesome, youtube is great like that!

[tmsnyder]

I got an AC Delco rebuilt one for $50 I think it was, from RockAuto.  I'm torn though, it's not leaking, I hate fixing things that aren't broken and most likely wont break. 

[BrandonMc]

I got an AC Delco rebuilt one for $50 I think it was, from RockAuto.  I'm torn though, it's not leaking, I hate fixing things that aren't broken and most likely wont break.

Yeah, I'm going to suggest you stick with the stock one until it starts to leak. My water pump was $26.00 can you believe it? TerryH just mentioned that you can drive home on a leaky water pump, and this aftermarket crap can sometimes go bad on you too. The water pump is like an extra 15 or 20 lbs, so I feel I can leave it at home now. The odometer is 53,000 so I'll pass on the timing chain. An overhaul at 100k if it lasts that long, and now that I'm in front of the pulleys I don't want to remove all that as well... it appears good.

May as well mention that the local radiator shop that even still will clean and rebuild an older unit this size, and was quoted $250. Replacements are $200. I'm actually gonna open up this bad boy with the blowtorch and rod it out and see about resealing it, check out the soldering technique.....   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcywWQCp8Ckalso keep in mind the body of the radiator aught to be hot enough to melt the solder and not melt it by directly heating of the solder itself.

[TerryH]

You may want to consider checking the price of an aluminum rad replacement, and checking on longevity of aluminum over stock and cost effectiveness.

[tmsnyder]

I'm trying the aluminum one, and keeping the brass one in case I need to have it re cored and reinstalled.

[tmsnyder]

Those deposits in the original post might just come out with a good soaking with radiator flush (acid)

[M & J]

Yeah, looked like calcium  deposits. Hard water.

[BrandonMc]

Those deposits in the original post might just come out with a good soaking with radiator flush (acid)

I hope you're right. I'd have been into this already except I have transmission issues on the daily driver.

[bluebird]

I doubt very much you can clean this up at home. There has been many of good engines ruined from overheating. When I had mine done a few years ago, after they cleaned it and fixed the leaks after they chemical cleaned and rodded it, they flow tested it. I would look for a replacement aftermarket one. These things run hot enough even when the cooling system is in great shape. They gave me a cost of $800.00 for a recore because a pickup core isn't good enough. They don't have enough fins per square inch.

[BrandonMc]

I doubt very much you can clean this up at home. There has been many of good engines ruined from overheating. When I had mine done a few years ago, after they cleaned it and fixed the leaks after they chemical cleaned and rodded it, they flow tested it. I would look for a replacement aftermarket one. These things run hot enough even when the cooling system is in great shape. They gave me a cost of $800.00 for a recore because a pickup core isn't good enough. They don't have enough fins per square inch.

Had a radiator shop open up one side only (ugh) and rod out the old one. He says mine was in really great shape.

I have a friend with a vacuum pump and set of gauges.  You pump it down to really close to absolute vacuum, something like 30+ inches of mercury vaccum, close the valve and see if the vaccum leaks out. If no leak, you start the engine and turn the a/c on max cool and start adding refrigerant until the pressures on each side of the compressor are up to the appropriate levels, disconnect and done. Duracool is not a freon product, it's basically a blend of propane and other "-anes" which are proprietary but not harmful to the planet, no license or anything needed to use them. Similar to 134a which every WalMart in the world sells, but supposed to be better than 134a.  I'm going to find out.

So I went with this kit, I know it says not for larger trucks, it's R12a but not labelled as such. Supposed to perform better than R134a and R12. Also, you are not supposed to run a vacuum with the R12A.
Alternate A/C Recharge Kit / Refrigerant Equivalent to 59.8 oz 134a Found the capacity in this winnebago service bulletin, looks like 32 ounces of R134A should do it from empty for a chevy. I'll need to look up a chart for the equivalent R12A value.


This chart gives an equivalency for the different refrigerants. so for 32 oz of 134a capacity.... to recharge with R12a.... exactly 2 6oz cans of this R12a will fill the empty system. Perfect!!

[Rickf1985]

Any refrigerant that contains butane or propane is dangerous in automotive applications. Once I find someone has used it I will refuse to work on the engine. The money I may lose is worth it to me to avoid the risk of explosion and fire.
Do a proper conversion to 134.

[M & J]

 

[Elandan2]

Hey Rick, Read the specs on the different refrigerants, you will be surprised. R134A has a lower flashpoint than that "extremely dangerous" R12A. I read once that the lobbyists blocked the general use of R12A in automotive applications in the US and Canada. It is regularly used in Europe. For myself, since I already am carrying 80 lbs. of propane, another 12 ounces really isn't going to make much difference. LOL Rick

[M & J]

Off topic guys.  W%