Engine overheats at cruising speed

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: ssvette1  (Original Message)
Sent: 11/7/2004 12:20 PM

I bought a 77 establishment over the winter, we remodeled the inside and I tuned up the motor. The best upgrade for the 440-1 was the new 1905 Edelbrock carb over the stock thermo-quad I passed smog no problem, also with the electric choke. I am now upgrading the cooling system because it would overheat at cruising speed not at idle? Any suggestions it seems this group is very informed on these motors.



From: denison
Sent: 11/8/2004 7:29 AM

My viewpoint is that I want to know-for-sure that the radiator was removed and cleaned within the last 10 years or less.  If I didnt know or wasnt sure, I would remove it and get it cleaned or recored.  My experience is that even annual flushing doesnt stop the slow loss in radiator cooling efficiency over the years - but removing it and having it opened up and cleaned, or recored, does restore that cooling effectiveness.  Ten years of peace of mind.
    And with the radiator out of the RV, you can easily reach a lot of things that are probably as old as the radiator.  So think about maybe replacing them now when it is easier;  both radiator hoses, heater hoses, fan clutch, water pump, power steering pump, all belts, alternator, ignition wires, fuel pump, old rubber parts of the fuel system.   If your RV has the hydroboost brake system, where the power steering pump also supplies hydraulic fluid to a smaller booster that is mounted as part of the brake master cylinder, then I would advise replacing all of the hydraulic hoses involved.  - - -  Because if one of those hoses splits, you not only loose your power steering, you lose your power assisted brakes too!     
    And keep a record of what you replaced or fixed, the date and the mileage. 

I were to completely rebuild all items associated with the engine, I probably could drive it for a couple of years and never need to remove the engine cover - and life would be dull.   But some things on mine are original, and a little suspect - so I have my engine cover off pretty regularly, and sometimes just look at it, thinking about what will need work next.



From: ssvette1
Sent: 11/8/2004 10:10 AM

Very good advise I will replace the water pump and thremostat maybe even the Alt. since it is right their and looks old, I don't like how much play there is in the steering going down the road I notice the steering box has alot of play in it has anyone attacked the problem before and is thier anything I can do other than pull the box out and replace I doubt I will have time before the Thanksgiving trip.



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 11/8/2004 10:27 AM

Ok, now I'll say something that's worth something....

Use the Message Search and type in the keywords "fix loose steering".  You'll be very glad you did! - SoberSob



From: ssvette1
Sent: 11/9/2004 8:54 AM

That steering box adjustment post was just what I was looking for I didn't enjoy my first trip because of the whiteknuckling I was doing trying to adjust for the drifting, my box has to much play I already went out and checked, Thanks Guys!!



From: denison
Sent: 11/9/2004 1:25 PM

      And if anyone else wants my long and wordy explanation of how I adjust the RV steering box and avoid shimmy and wandering; I can email it to you - would just need an email address. 
     And I hope I have sent it to the folks who had already asked....



From: ssvette1
Sent: 11/10/2004 9:05 AM

denison I would like to have it --- ssvette@adelphia.net
I plan on installing the recored radiator this weekend I would also like to upgrade the water pump and thermostat with a high volume model. Does Napa have a multi-vain upgrade or do I have to go aftermarket for this? I have also seen the term skirted used in reference to the thrmostat? now I have a 440-1 and I know most of you have the -3 with better head flow any advise?
http://community.webshots.com/user/ssvette



From: Sea Hag
Sent: 11/10/2004 9:53 AM

Are you postitve it's a 440-1 . The 76 Dodge motor home chassis sevice manual ( same as used for the 77) has very little info on the 440 1 just a mention in the Identification section and no specs . only for the 440 3 & the 360 3 . the parts catalog does,t list much about them either . either way I think  the skirted thermostate is recomended for a 440 . Sea Hag



From: Enigma960080
Sent: 11/10/2004 10:08 AM

Sorry about the  reply from email..

I  think the  quickest way to  tell  type 1/ type 3  is the  sparkplug.   type 3  takes  5/8 plug tapered seat.  Type 1 is a 13/16 plug with a gasket....



From: Sea Hag
Sent: 11/10/2004 6:53 AM

Are you postitve it's a 440-1 . The 76 Dodge motor home chassis sevice manual ( same as used for the 77) has very little info on the 440 1 just a mention in the Identification section and no specs 

My 1979 Minnie Winny is a 440-1,i was surprised by that too

BooBoo



From: ssvette1
Sent: 11/10/2004 3:48 PM

It does say 440-1 on the sticker under the hood--- mine is still there also I have seen it cast in the block on the passinger side. You know I changed the plugs early last summer but I can't remember which ones they were I will check when I get home.
Also the sticker on the engine showes the 440-1 specs.



From: denison
Sent: 11/11/2004 9:35 AM

The high volume water pump would be one with 6 or more vanes, as many as 8..  They are available from www.stewartcomponents.com, who also have the skirted thermostats.  Skirted thermostats, but not the high volume water pumps are available from http://www.summitracing.com   Look for the Summit part # MRG4367, and one number higher and lower than 4367.

If your RV is a class C it might have had the 440-1.  You cant go by the things on the side of the block though.  The rough casting was the same for the 440-1 and -3.  Anyway, its always best to take the old part in when you go for a new one.



From: Sea Hag
Sent: 11/11/2004 9:38 AM

Thats interesting , I could tell my heads have been replaced , and my exhaust manifolds also . On my 76 as my sparkplugs are not tapered Type and the exhaust manifold collector comes out between the back two cylinders instead of in the center .They are probably off a later model  as the right side has or had a heat flap valve on it . Maybe a 440 1 is what they came off of . My block Identification stamp reads  6 T 440 E  . So far I havent found the head Ident . stamp , It must be on the rear . Ive cleaned and painted the front , top and both sides of the block and heads . there is some pics in my album . Sea hag



From: ssvette1
Sent: 11/21/2004 10:33 AM

Cooling system done went with a milodon water pump and thermostat from PAW I get all of my parts there since I am a drag racer and they have never done me wrong. Recored the radiator and installed new fan assembly all seems to be working fine. The steering adjustment is to tight I can here the power steering pump working at a stand-still not moving the wheel I will loosen it back up today. The motor started on the first try after not running for four months the edelbrock replacement carb was a big improvment, still need to bleed the brakes today because I had to disconnect them at the master cylinder to put in the radiator. I was sure hoping to improve the steering before the trip.



From: ssvette1
Sent: 11/29/2004 3:18 PM

Well the cooling system worked great never over 180-190 all the way to Glamis.<o:p></o:p>

Had to loosen up the steering box adjustment I made to stop the power steering from making a terrible noise driving I guess it ended back were I started to begin with, now

I did have a new problem and the only issue on the way back was a surge under load sure felt like lack of fuel I am thinking fuel pump or junk in the tank any Comments??



From: denison
Sent: 11/30/2004 8:17 PM

About your surging under load: You can assume you will have dirt from your fuel tanks being drawn up into the fuel system. That is why you need to have a filter ahead of the fuel pump - thats the unpressurized side. I like the plastic filters I can see into. I carry extras at all times, and can change one in 5 minutes.
If your filter is clean and you think it still has problems, try blowing some air pressure back into the fuel line, between the fuel pump and the tank. There might be a pickup "sock" in the tank that has gotten clogged with gummy varnish deposits - which do not dissolve in gasoline.
If you dont know the age of the fuel pump, putting a new one on would give you 10 years of peace of mind. An old pump can begin to shed rubber bits into the carburetor. I dont put fuel filters between the pump and the carb, becauseI dont want one in the pressurized part of the system.
Also, old rubber fuel hoses can have air leaks in them, making it hard for the pump to keep fuel flowing through. Iadvise replacing those fuel lines when they are 15 years old or more. If you have rubber fuel line on the pressurized side of the fuel pump, I would replace it each 5 or 6 years.



From: ssvette1
Sent: 12/1/2004 4:15 PM

Thanks again for the advise it is always helpful I do notice a leak in the fuel tank during fillup I believe it is the overflow hose. I will change out the fuel pump and drop the tank I need to fix the level float also and the leak on the overflow, this tank only reads 3\4 full when full.



From: west coast redneck
Sent: 12/1/2004 7:15 PM

Hi from up north .The ISland.Vanouver that is.I have a 440-3 In a 78 Winny.As I know it the 440-1 had Overheating problem in the head do to poor water jackets in it..Thus the 440-3 came in with better water circulation in the heads.But still the 440-3 always burned hot.Both of these have problems with exaust manifold problems related to the heat.My solution as well as the mechanics. Firstly put oversized dual exaust .3 inch.Sounds cool too.If you have manifold problems use solid copper gaskets.Thirdly put a heavy duty transimition cooler in it.As you did, I put the Elderbrock Carb in it too. Good decision.Hope this helps Take care Eh.



From: denison
Sent: 12/2/2004 7:40 AM

    west coat redneck;   I can agree with adding a tranny oil cooler ahead of the one in the bottom of the radiator; preferrably not putting it in front of the radiator either.  But  I havent heard that the 440s ran hot IF the cooling system was maintained.  I almost said "normal maintenance", but I think that most owners ignore the cooling system until it overheats.  I insist on knowing the date and mileage since my radiator was out for cleaning the last time, along with new hoses.  If that was more than 8 years ago, I would not blame the motor for running hot.    I have tried thermostats with 3 temps: the 160, the 180, and the 195 degree kind, using each one for several thousand miles in hot weather - up to 100f or slighty higher.  The engine ran fine with all of them, the only difference being where the temp gauge always pointed to.



From: SeaRaySRV16O
Sent: 2/10/2005 1:42 PM

denison, I am curious as to whether you noticed any better fuel economy with the warmer thermostats?

My GMC 350 Suburban gets better mileage with the warmer thermostat. I don't know if that holds true with a Dodge truck chassis. Problem is with the 195 thermostat, and a heavy load in the mountains, it may not be keeping the tranny fluid cool enough. No doubt an aux cooler for the tranny is one of the cheapest upgrades and best investments that can be made.