A short treatise on the homely Winnebago

[bergmarkdale]

Sent: 11/9/2007 10:36 PM

Having reached the age of 53 years, I have been thinking lately that I should make better use of my seven years of high school education, and so I therefore pen this short treatise on the Classic Winnebago...perhaps Miss Laine, my 12 grade English teacher, will finally give me the extra credit that I deserve...   

    In the November 2007 issue of Motorhome Magazine, there is a short article about the new RV Hall Of Fame near Elkhart, Indiana.  There is a small picture of a 1967 Winnebago, which is on display in the museum, with this caption:  "A 1967 Winnebago Class A gas motorhome, Serial no. 22, a unit that is best remembered for its rather homely appearance and "eyebrow" look....."  While there is no question as to the "eyebrow look", most of us would take exception to the old classic as being "rather homely".    As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...     I remember as a kid, living near the Winnebago factory, we watched Winnebago grow, and had rented their travel trailers for various vacations, short and long.  My dad started working there in about 1966, because farming wasn't quite paying the bills.  We would often cruise through the open parking lots of new trailers, checking out the models, all of which were unofficially open to the public.  When they started building motor homes, these too were unofficially open to whomever wanted to look--some even had the keys in the ignition!  I guess it was a different day then....As an employee, my dad would have access a couple of times a year to the motor homes used only by the employees.  Winnebago had a small fleet of these, mostly F-17s for regular employees, and a couple of bigger ones for the higher-ups.  We went to the Ozarks once, to the Black Hills a couple of times, and other places, and these motor homes would always generate excitement wherever we went.  We would have notes stuck in our windshield wipers--what do you call this thing?  How much does this cost?  Where can I get one?  Obviously, having employees use them for free was fantastic advertising, because we would drive the hell out of them and make them very visible.

     On our second trip to the Black Hills in 1969, we counted hundreds of Winnebagos on the road, including the biggest and most expensive one of all, the D-27.  As a 14 year old, I thought the thing was huge, so huge in fact that it had to have a rear door!  I had no understanding of how anyone could ever afford to buy one.     Of course, most of these motor homes are gone now, but I still remember all the excitement they created.  They certainly are a part of Americana.  And to this day, I still think they are attractively designed.   I don't think they could have come up with a better design using only flat surfaces arranged in any particular way.  My apologies to LTP folks, but the Winnebago is infinitely better looking, though certainly not any more aerodynamic!      In reference to the Motorhome Magazine editor's comment that the Winnie was "rather homely", I would like to compare it to one of my  favorite automobiles--the Nash Metropolitan of the 1950s (see attached photo).  Most folks would call the Nash rather homely, but you know, once you get used to it,  perhaps it might be said that it's so ugly that it's cute.  When it first came out, it was probably acceptable, since they sold quite a few, but then I would guess that in comparison to cars of the '60s, '70s, etc.  it might be considered a bit homely.  But that is probably its appeal.  It really is a cute car.  And certainly retro.     I feel the same way about the early Winnie's.  Really not homely at all, but very cute with a bit of pizzaz.  Look at the photo of the 1972 D28 on the first and last pages of the 1972 Chieftain brochure on the Winnebago WEB site (the photo taken if front of the Southern mansion)--this is really a strikingly good-looking motor home.  My college buddies would ridicule Winnebago designers, saying "Don't they know that form follows function?  What idiots!  The motor home needs better gas mileage, so it should be much more streamlined!  Like a GMC!"  Well, form does follow function--the function of a motor home is that, while on vacation, it is driven maybe 25% of the time, but lived in 100% of the time.  The primary function of the motor home is therefore livability, which requires a boxy look, which Winnebago advertised much to its benefit. 

     Looking at today's motor homes, the boxy look is still the best, though engineers have done a very good job designing more attractive front ends, but which don't appear to be much more aerodynamic that the old Winnies.     Here's another comparison to the Nash Metropolitan--I'm hoping that one day, the old Winnies will be sought after in much the same way, in that people will be willing to seek them out and restore them to new condition, but not so much that most folks will be priced out of the market for them.  That seems to be true of the Nash.  I have been priced out of the collector car market in general, which makes me sad.  I would like to have a 57 Thunderbird or 69 Mustang or 36 Ford Roadster, but the prices are too much, and restoration costs are too high.  But that's certainly not true of a '67 Winnebago!  There you go, a collector market I can be part of!  Cool...       I think in order for a collector market to blossom for old Winnies, there is going to have to be a few examples of completely  restored motorhomes that truly look fresh from the assembly line.  I know many of our members have repainted and polished and reupholstered and recarpeted, but I'm not aware of any pristine examples of Classic Winnies that are near to perfect.  Of course, that would cost some bucks.  And people probably wouldn't want to actually use them if they are too nice. 

     I am currently reconditioning a 1979 Elandan (The Creepy-o-bago) and my goal is to make it as fresh as possible, though it won't be exactly original.  I do not consider this motorhome to be a "Classic Winnebago" because of its style, but once it is completed I look forward to purchasing a 1969-73 Winnie where I pull out all the stops and make it look and run as if it just came off the assembly line.

     One interesting note is that these old Winnies were never intended to last 40 years.  It's amazing that there are any left!  If it weren't for the flat roofs, I think there would be quite a few more out there....My 1979 has a curved roof and it is very solid!      I'm interested in what others think about Winnebagos as collectors items, at least in the way that I define it--a market where people buy, or restore, or sell, or even use the Classic Winnebago restored to near-perfect.   

     This is how the collector car market opened up--there was a demand for excellent quality vehicles.  In order to see if there is a demand, some excellent quality restored vehicles had to exist!    I'm hopeful that there will be a market someday for the Winnie as there is for the Nash Metropolitan--vehicles that are so homely they are cute, still useable, have a little pizzazz, and not priced out of the market so most folks can't touch them.  And if you see one restored to perfection, you go Wow!  That's cool!       

Kind of exciting, like when they first came out....!

[brians1969]

Sent: 11/10/2007 5:54 AM

I often wonder if classic winnebagos were inspiration for the stealth fighter........
:-)
Brian

[OldEdBrady]

Sent: 11/10/2007 8:02 AM

I certainly recall those old Metros--two in particular.

The first one belonged to someone where I grew up.  He was a particularly nasty person, and some of the guys (never did find out who) took the thing apart and reassembled it--on top of a barn.  Sat there for a l-o-n-g time until the guy figured out how to get it down.

The second was owned by my father-in-law.  I hated that car!  We didn't have a car at the time, and he'd take us places.  Due to it's size, we had to ride in the back seat where there wasn't room to change your mind!

Thanks for the memories!

[kathryn8]

Sent: 11/10/2007 8:36 AM

Ahhh... the memories!!  You earned an "A+" in my gradebook!

My '74 Winnie Wagon is now gone (sold for $500 in September 2006, brochure and all.....), but I do have a 1954 Nash Metro b/w convertible sitting in my garage, waiting for someone to finish restoring her body.

The Pumpkin - remember her bulbous rear end and the orange shag carpet - took our family on many trips and family reunions to Half Moon Lake near Pinedale, Wyoming and yes, she got stares and questions everywhere we went.  With the roof raised, she was quite roomy if everyone was very skinny and didn't get up and walk around, BUT she had no bathroom and that was her downfall.  My 90-year-old mother refused to travel in her again without a toilet, so onto Craigslist she went.  I still miss her!

I tried to attach a picture of her, but the limit here is 1M, so at long last, she was too big!!!  Thanks for bringing her back to mind......

Kathryn

[Lefty]

Sent: 11/10/2007 4:41 PM


Nice piece!
As for your question of the current status of classic Winnebago's as a "Collector Item".
Right now, I would say that a late-'60's thru early-'70's Winne can be found in a rather nice, perfectly usable condition for under $5,000 in most cases. Making it affordable to most persons who would otherwise be forced to travel using a travel trailer or pop-up.
For instance, for around $5,000 you can either get;
A: a very clean, pop-up in near mint condition, less than three years old.
B: a decent sized travel trailer in pretty good (but not mint) shape, that is still nice enough to be presentable, and maybe 8-10yrs old. It likely would need some interior freshening and a few minor repairs, but otherwise would be in decent shape.
C: a van conversion (Class B or C) that is in fairly rough shape, but still nice enough to fix up. It might be between 15-20yrs old, and likely would need a few major things like roof repairs or a complete re-do of the interior. It probably would need paint as well. As with any motorized rig, it would also require some type of mechanical repairs as well.
or,
D: a Winnebago that has been mostly refurbished. It too might need some work, but in this price range it should be in very good shape. Certainly good enough to be used as it is.

For the money, a classic Winne offers the best value of space/cost. You simply get more room than either a travel trailer of pop-up, and more than a Class C, at less cost.
I have seen a few Winnes that could be said to be "fully restored", not many, but a few. I'd certainly like to see more. Most members here are far more interested in making thier rigs structurly sound, and in good mechanical shape. Also, most gravitate towards updating thier interiors to a newer look. I personally am not fond of either Avocado Green, or Burnt Orange to want to keep the interior stock. But, some people might. I also think another factor is the cost of finding new original parts to use for a restoration. For the most part, we are lucky to just find a nice old part from a donor vehicle, let alone a new part. I haven't seen too many restoration companies offering reproduction parts for a classic Winne lately.

As for whether it will EVER be a true collectors item? Maybe. I certainly draw quite a lot of interest whenever I use mine. And people who sell them already use words like "Classic", "Antique", and "Collectors Item" in thier ads. And you have another component necessary for a collector status, this group. Any collector car requires a group of owners who gather to promote the preservation of that particular car.
Read the clubs statement of why we are here and you will see "...To promote the restoration and preservation of, these classic pieces of Americana..."
Also, we too gather in groups to share in our enjoyment of these vehicles.
And I think any owner here would agree that a classic Winne is something "special", that deserves to be preserved and passed on for future generations. There are still a great number of these rigs left, although seeing one in really nice shape is not too common. Which I think helps in making our rigs unique. Ours are usually nicer than most people would expect a 40+ year old RV to be.

[Cooneytoones]

Sent: 11/10/2007 11:04 PM

Great Job......I give you an A + too.....

And if you remember all....and I mean all vehicles, you could drive, cook, eat and sleep in were called "Winnebago's" at that time.....no matter what name was on them......I still know some folks that still call em' all Winnebago's......

Try telling someone who has little to zero knowledge of motor homes or camping, that you have an Pace Arrow, or a Champion...and they will probably look at you like you said something in Istambullion......Say the word "Winnebago" and they can picture exactly what it is.

Some may think they are cute, some may think they are the ugliest thing ever made...that's a matter of opinion, and everyone is intitled to their opinion, even if they are wrong.

Several things are for sure, Winnebago started an industry and, revolutionized America, just drive down any road, highway, or street, you can not go more than a mile without seeing a motorhome....to me, thay still are all Winnebago's. Because, like The Beatles and Elvis, they started something that will endore the test of time and generations to come.
We also prove that everytime we buy one, work on it, camp in it, or just take our Classic Collectables down the road.

So for me anyway, It's part of Americana we can be proud of. Except for maybe some of the green peacers and folks who want to tell others that America is bad.

I paid X amount for the rig, X amount to fix it..... and now with the price of gas, XXX amount to drive it. But the joy of owning a Classic Winnebago ....................... ........Priceless.............

Timmy.

[The_Handier_Man1]

Sent: 11/11/2007 10:33 AM

And Wilbur would like to thank you for the vote of being called "nice".  He even has a Blog project going on if you would like to see more of him on the Oregon Coast this last Summer.  http://the-handier-man.blogspot.com/ To me, seeing these "Classic" machines running around and hearing the stories of how "when I was little or years ago"  are what gives us the a pat on the back for all the busted knuckles and dirty hands.  My wife tells me of all the people looking and smiling as we drive by or are parked just watching the world go by.

[melyash]

Sent: 11/11/2007 11:43 AM

As an owner of a Winne that I can honestly say is close to origonal as it gets I am truly happy to hear that folks think a market might exist for a completely restored showroom Winne. No, I wont sell it, but at the same time I am at least a bit more interested in spending some time keeping her as pretty as I can....

[Oz]

Sent: 11/11/2007 4:25 PM

Collectible?... well, not likely... still very enjoyable... absolutely!  As long as there are enthusiasts like us, these rigs will continue to do what they were intended to... provide memories to last a lifetime!

[denisondc]

Sent: 11/16/2007 9:25 AM

     Thanks for a great posting.  I am convinced old Winnies will be collectables eventually. I can recall in the early 50s how you would see a car from the 1930s or late 20's  going down the street, with no gloss to whatever paint it had left, a drooping headliner, and leaving a thin trail of blue smoke from worn piston rings - and wonder if they owner actually liked driving it, or just couldnt afford $1200 for a new Chevy or Plymouth sedan or a sporty Willys Aerolark.
You could upgrade the handling of your 32 Chevy with wheels from a 38 Chevy, that had larger/wider softer tires, and cover the stained mohair upholstery with a woolen Indian blanket.
      I apreciate the flat surfaces of my Winnie each time I read about some lukckless soul with a Travco or a later RV, trying to find/afford a replacement  for a broken or clouded windshield.   I dont think the modern class As are any better looking than the smaller older Winnebagos.  They wont look any better when they are 30 years of age either. 

[acenjason]

Every place I camp people smile and wave and ask questions....... I wouldn't trade mine for any new rig.

[LJ-TJ]

I'm surprised Winnebago turns it's nose up at these old girls and those who have continued to keep there old Winnebago's on the road. While it may not have been their intention for these old girls to be on the roads this long, minus a few faults they are a display of the quality U.S.  workmanship you rarely see today. I would have thought the factory would have jumped on the opportunity to have a gathering of  classics at the factory. As far as them becoming classics like the cars. Yep! the price of these old girls is rising with the condition there in. The restored one's are pulling down big dollars. I wouldn't be to quick to scrap that old Winnebago in the back yard. If Winnebago was smart they'd hold a Rally at the factory for THEIR old classics. But then what do I know.

[eXodus]

it was the same with the car industry over in Europe,

They didn't acknowledge their classics until it was really late. The companies lost significant market share which didn't provide spare parts and support for older cars. Some car manufactures got bankrupt, one reason was that they didn't valued what they built in the past.

Now every (at least German) manufacturer has their own classic department. Some bought private companies which specialist on their classics. Some started from scratch.  This all happened the last 10 years.
In the modern times of "repair, reuse, recycle" it can be deadly not have support for old products.
I have no idea how the RV industries works over here, and I can not compare, Europe doesn't have anything comparable. We've got some travel trailer manufacturer but that's it. Everything else is imported from the USA.
I love classics, cars, trucks, tanks, and now increasing Motorhomes 

[Elandan2]

Having an RV based business gives me the opportunity to talk to owners and dealers of many other brands and the support that they receive (or don't!!).  Winnebago provides the best support in the industry, by far.  Check out their website support page. http://www.winnebagoind.com/resources/manuals/
Download their catalog and check out how many parts are still available.  I think that it is amazing.  Of course, they don't have every part from every unit they ever built, but the essentials are still available.  Now, if we could only get all the chassis manufacturers to provide that kind of support.  Rick

[Schmitti]

I can only eXodus Agree ... I come from Germany / Europe. There are only a few, chosen vehicles even spare parts. Mercedes-Benz and Porsche has a "Classic Division" can be (a very large wallet provided) Request parts and order there. Browse online in the parts catalogs? Checking off - because no one can look over your shoulder. As a lover of older vehicles you are looking for spare parts sometimes longer than a complete restoration will take.
I have the Chieftain so far and am with him not long so far in order to go on vacation ... but I have now, while the small restoration already have my fun with it. Except for a new radiator I got from here from all parts locate and order can - and this for a vehicle that is now almost 40 years old. at a Opel, VW (as long as it is not a bug), Auto Union, Citroen, Peugot, or whatever they're called ... an absolute absurdity.
I hope Google could reasonably understandable translate...

Thomas

[Mytdawg]

I've been able to take mine out twice.  The first time I made it three blocks and needed a tow...  D:oH!   The second time I made it 400 miles round trip but by the time I got back she was leaking fuel, had stripped the starter gear and wasn't idling.  From one day to the next I can't predict what wiring works, what doesn't and what random things will be on or off.  Or if the battery will still have a charge.  Sometimes it lasts a week, some days it drains it in an hour.  It handles like a brick and gets similar gas mileage to one.  At around 60 it's a white knuckle affair trying to keep it in a lane.  But it's like the old raggedy teddy bear with no eyes, worn and comfortable.  The old paneling, gold shag and formica at least two generations past it's prime.  Pull into a gas station in rural Michigan and people look at you like you landed a UFO.  Throw in a harlequin Great Dane and they're sure you landed a UFO.  It's been an experience...