Source for 727 Transmission Rebuild Kit & easy to do!

[The_Handier_Man1]

From: HeavyHaulTrucker
 
JC Whitney sells a 727 rebuild kit for $59.99 (http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/ProductDisplay/c-10101/s-10101/p-229695/mediaCode-ZX/appId-469775), and from what I have read, it doesn't seem to be particulary difficult to do.  I can rent a tranny jack at United Rentals.  That sure is cheaper than buying a rebuilt one!

John



From: denison
Sent: 12/7/2004 7:22 AM

I will be eager to hear how it is to rebuild the 727.  I have a spare 727 transmission of the right type, but havent started on it.  I am pretty good at procrastination.



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 12/7/2004 8:06 AM

The A-727 is one of the easiest transmissions to rebuild. You will need an inch-pound torque wrench (yes I did not say Foot-pound) and a couple of pullers that the average home mechanic doesn't usually have. Taking it apart is a breeze, but you need a lot of room (I use an old ping-pong table to lay the parts out!)

The Jc whitney kit is ok, but there are additional seals, gaskets, the pump, converter, servo parts, as well as valve body parts you may also need. And remember: it's a TRUCK transmission, there are differences! If you change the pump or torque converter, watch out!! They're different!!

It would be wise when rebuilding one to put a shift kit in it, as the shift kit will solve the 2-3 shift rev problem (a common annoyance with A-904/727/998/999 transmissions.

JC Whitney also says the trans kit is for a '71 up 727. Other kits say '66 up. A 727 is a 727 from '66 up to '88 There are only very minor differences in the rebuild kits for any, and most usually include both parts where one may differ slightly.

If  I rebuild a transmission, I almost always rebuild or replace the pump and converter, too. Not to forget the seals. Never use silicone seal on transmission pans. Try to get the composite or rubber pan gasket (your neighborhood chrysler dealer has it), not the cork/rubber ones. Install a transmission drain plug while you're at it, and it'll make your life easier 50K down the road!

Remember too: if you have a driveshaft parking brake, your rear seal is different than if you have cable emergeny/parking brakes. The old wide and fat rubber seal for the cable brake version is no longer available, but the replacement is suitable and actually lasts longer. This seal wont work though on the driveshaft brake versions, it's different and still available though.

I wish I'd had a digital camera the last time I did a 727. I could have posted the whole surgical procedure here. Maybe soon I'll just yank the trans out of smurfbago and document the rebuild but don't hold your breath, that trans is in very useaable condition still.


I hope this was helpful,

Slantsixness
(Tom)



From: restoholic
Sent: 12/7/2004 8:12 AM

Tom, is the A727 for a SB?



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 12/7/2004 10:24 AM

both small block and big block's use the A-727, but the bellhousing (whole trans front housing is one piece) is different, and they don't interchange, but the internal parts do. The "A" doesnt denote A or LA engine family or even "Automatic" it's just a New Process (the people who really made them) thing.
I've even seen them listed as "TF727"'s (TorqueFlight).

There are four different bellhousing arrangements that I've seen:
one for the Slant Six
one for the LA engine family (small blocks)
one for the B/RB engine family (big blocks)
one for the AMC V8 engines (yeah its a 727 in some of them too)
The AMC 6 cylinder engines use the crummy Ford Transmissions (C-4?, FMX)

Most people refer to it as just a "727 trans". A "727" to me is a Passenger Jet!

Suffice to say, if it has an irregular shaped pan, and not a square pan with a corner notched out, it's an A-727! (square one is an A-904, which is only for cars as far as I've known, and a light duty transmission. The A-904, also known as the A-998 and A-999 in later model years, is unsuitable for use in our Winnies, even with small block engines. (they'll die rather quickly!)

I wish I had a better explanation of the trans terms for you. I just tinker with MoPars, I learned how to rebuild the 727's because I had to get back to college one Fall ('85), and I was a poor Engineering student with a broke down '71 340 Duster and tuition due! Of course that wasn't the only time I did one. As soon as I fixed mine, evrybody seemed to have a bad 727 or 904!  (You know how many friends you suddenly have when you can do something they can't.... Arrgh!)


Tom



From: restoholic
Sent: 12/7/2004 10:32 AM

Tom, I recently built up a 727 trans for a BB truck project I had. Purchased B&M shift kit for it at the local Autozone for about $24. What does a beefier spring in the valvebody accomplish?



From: Slantsixness
Sent: 12/7/2004 11:51 AM

That's what gets rid of the 2-3 upshift delay; it increases the overall pressure to the servo gates in the valve body (making them work faster, it "reprograms" the shift points/servo delays).

If you don't really stomp on it and drive it real hard, you won't notice any difference if you left that new spring out (which a lot of people do).

Tom



From: Liv42dayOK
Sent: 12/7/2004 2:27 PM

  You mentioned a delay in the 2-3 shift.  Mine doesn't do that.  In fact, all shifts are so smooth, you really have to pay attention to notice it at all.  Is this an indication of a problem?
- Sob



From: denison
Sent: 12/7/2004 4:48 PM

Mine is the same way Sob. When I am accelerating mildly from a stop in my Winny I can "sort of feel" the 1-2 shift; and if it is pretty quiet, I can Hear the 2-3 shift from the drop in the slight fan noise. But if I am on a busy roadway, the only way I know when the 2-3 shift takes place is by seeing the tach needle dip.
On the rare occasions that I have my foot down further, it shifts at a noticeably higher engine speed (more fan roar), but even so there is no sound of engine rpm increasing at all during the up-shifts; (ergo, no-slippage, I Hope!). But I prefer to let up the throttle, allow it to up-shift without much torque-loading, then put the pedal down again and re-open the secondaries.
I had a rusty 65 Dodge A100 "cabover van" for a few months in the mid 80s, with the 225 slant six turning its 727 tranny. Each time it up-shifted it shook that little van; as if it had been gently bumped from behind. Once I was in a situation where I floored the throttle, at about 50 mph; and when it down-shifted it squealed a tire! The first owner had put 250k miles on it before the speedo stopped working, and later he gave it to me. But neither he nor I ever had to do any repairs to the tranny or that mopar slant six, -- other than the rocker cover gasket.



From: Im-still-Lefty
Sent: 12/8/2004 12:43 AM

I would like to add, The transmissions in the 2 ton & up were designated as being a "Loadflite 727" not a "Torqueflite 727". I don't know exactly what the differences were, I would assume that the clutches were beefed up, as well as the valvebody having different valving to provide additional pressure. I do know that they have deeper pans, and hold more fluid. Does anybody have other specifics? Lefty



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 12/8/2004 9:02 PM

denison, mine also does that.  If I take off from a stop gently, i can barely feel the shifts -- and I have to be looking for them.  On the other hand, if I put the pedal down then things change drastically.

1st / 2nd shift occurs at 3800 rpm, and -- while it won't knock your back out -- it is very noticable.  It is a very crisp, clean shift -- you can see the tach snap from 3800 rpm to 2400 rpm with no "float" or delay time.

2nd / 3rd shift occurs at 4000 rpm if I don't "kick shift" it before then, and it is also noticeable, although not as much as the 1-2 shift.  This shift is slightly soft and delayed a bit, but still positive.

The problem with mine is speed -- it makes the shifts at the proper speeds, either way, but the best I can get out of her is 65 mph now (I have been experimenting with the kickdown lever, and I re-adjusted the kickdown band this morning).  At 3500 rpm, at 65 mph, I can feel it slipping; by the way, 65 mph used to be 3100 rpm, and I have had her up to 85 mph at 3800 rpm before -- not she just won't get there at all.  I have a Sunpro "SuperTach II" mounted on the top of the steering column where I can see it easily, and I have noted the important rpms.

John



From: smp5937
Sent: 3/22/2005 12:40 PM

I have rebuilt several various transmissions, but never a 727. I ALWAYS buy my kits from www.bulkpart.com and I buy a manual with each different transmission. I ALWAYS put a Transgo shift kit in EVERY tranny I rebuild. The owner of bulkpart is available via phone for any problems you may have during the overhaul, and once I received a band that had been damaged either in shipping or before, but to save me time he shipped me a new one overnight and I didn't even have to ship the damaged one back. What a dealer!!! Please check this reseller out and give him at least a consideration. I do believe you will find no better supplier out there, and he stocks over 8000 parts at any given time!!! If he doesn't have it he will get it immediately. I give this company at LEAST 5 stars out of 5!!!!! The manuals are a wonderful Step by Step removal, tear down, overhaul, testing, and reinstall manual. They are about $15 each, and what a bargain. I keep them for doing adjustments later on.



From: Wasserhaus1
Sent: 3/23/2005 10:27 AM

In putting mine "in-gear" from Park - it engages with a big metal slam - and lurches forward.  So much so, I have to be very cognizant of where I park and how much room I leave in front of the MH. Once underway, the shifting is soft and quiet.  Is this a sign of a significant problem or just that the engine idle is set to high?

- Jim



From: denison
Sent: 3/23/2005 2:27 PM

Mine lurches very slightly when I pull it into -D-, but I normally have my foot on the brake anyway.  If the engine was warm and just idling (800-900 rpm), it would gently pull the RV forward on level pavement, and perhaps get up to 5 mph in a few car lengths, or near to 10 mph after 1000 feet.   If I pull it into -D- at a warm idle while  parked on grass where it has been sitting overnight, it doesnt move.   I dont know if thats any help.



From: HeavyHaulTrucker
Sent: 3/24/2005 11:59 PM

Jim, that metal "clank" is definitely the front U-joint.  If you have an M300 chassis, then it is the one that measures 2-5/8" in the book.  There are 3 sizes available for the M300 -- the Winnies take the one right in the middle.  I just replaced mine a few weeks ago -- just before I parked it!

When you change the front one, change the rear one too... it is simpler to take the rear U-joint loose from the rear end -- the yoke on the differential has 4 bolts that hold 2 caps.  Take the bolts out & the back end of the driveshaft falls out.  You can then slide the driveshaft & transmission tailshaft out & work on it on the bench -- sure beats trying to swing a hammer under the coach!

The caps on the new U-joint come off; be careful not to disturb the needle bearings when you do, though.  The U-joint goes into the yoke first, then you press the caps on from the outside of the yoke -- when you get them lined up and started, you can finish driving them into the yoke with a big hammer.  Once the caps are in far enough, the clips go on to keep them from being thrown out by centrifugal force.  Do the driveshaft side first, with the driveshaft clamped in a big vise -- then do the tranny tailshaft side second.

When you do the rear U-joint, only the caps on the driveshaft side come off for installation.  Since the differential side has bolt-on caps, you don't need to pull the bearing caps on that side.

Make sure that you get the clips on properly, or you can lose a cap out on the road -- causes a HUGE vibration when the driveshaft gets loose!

Oh, BTW Rick -- it's either 2 or 4.  The carrier bearing takes one on each side, plus the front & back. 

John