Author Topic: 1970 413 carburetor woes  (Read 174 times)

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Offline bigskypc50mt

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  • Year: 1970
  • Model: 25
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  • Engine: 413
1970 413 carburetor woes
« on: September 20, 2022, 04:28 PM »
Hello all I turn to you fine folks to help me out. I am trying to get someone to rebuild my carburetor and it’s looking like the cost to rebuild around 350.00 for a non Gov model. 3 more hours if it is a governor model.  Not to far off the cost of a new one. Or over the cost.  My carb on there now says list 4399. A Holley 4150 Governed the tech at Holley said. And they don’t sell those types anymore.

So my question is how do you tell the difference between a gov carb and not gov carburetor. Would my rig likely have a gov carb. Also would a Holley 80457s make a good bolt on replacement? Anyone use that one before thanks

Offline bigskypc50mt

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  • Model: 25
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Re: 1970 413 carburetor woes
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2022, 04:47 PM »
Attached is a photo

Offline TerryH

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Re: 1970 413 carburetor woes
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2022, 06:48 PM »
As best I recall a governed holley used either vacuum, electric or combination of both actuated solenoid for the governor. Changing to a non governed carb is beyond my experience. Hopefully either DaveVA78Chieftain or Rick1985 (unfortunately he is not often on site any longer) offer you more.
One way to determine if yours is governed is, unfortunately, to STOMP on the gas pedal. A governed carb restricts when and to what degree the secondaries open. Governed will take an obvious longer time to build up RPM than non governed. Reason was to mitigate damage to drive train - differential, U joints, transmission, etc.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are - it is our choices.
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Offline Mlw

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  • Year: 1979
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  • Engine: 360-3 4 BBL
Re: 1970 413 carburetor woes
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2022, 08:06 PM »
Unfortunately I don't know enough about Holleys to distinguise governed vs non governed, so can't help you there.

But Why do you want it rebuild, because at the first glance it doesn't look to bad.

A rebuild is needed when parts are damaged or corroded, but you can also clean a carb and then you are talking different prices so maybe first do a "Italian tuneup"

https://youtu.be/HuWjiIb6FZk?t=3150

Now I'm NOT saying this is going to fix your problem or you don't need a rebuild, but if the engine runs (a lot) better and even doesn't bog anymore then you know what direction to go and you'll at least save a few hundred dollars. Certainly when you are driving around in a RV as old as yours and let others do the job for you, you better have a very fat wallet everytime somethings up and after you payed you can only hope that your problem is fixed.

For a new carb why don't you call Holley themselves? But entering the details of your engine, it is the carburetor that pops up.

Offline bigskypc50mt

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  • Model: 25
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  • Engine: 413
Re: 1970 413 carburetor woes
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2022, 09:10 PM »
I am seeking out a rebuild or replacement because that's what drowned into your head.... Engine sits for X years rebuild or replace any fluid and rubber hose along with the carb.

Depending what mood it's in, It will actually idle when warm. Other half the time it won't stay running when warmed up. It don't leak. I am half temped to remove it shoot carb cleaner all over it and in it and feed it some seafoam or B12. there is already B12 in the tank.

I did call Holley and they suggest that part number I listed in my first post for truck version of my engine without the gov.

I do do most all of my own work, I converted a 42ft school bus (skoolie) into a tiny home so the entire RV/House part is no problem for me and the woodworking etc. I do  nearly all my engine work expect tires and carbs.

Offline TerryH

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  • Engine: 454 Dual Fuel
Re: 1970 413 carburetor woes
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2022, 01:15 AM »
Sorry, but this
Hello all I turn to you fine folks to help me out. I am trying to get someone to rebuild my carburetor and it’s looking like the cost to rebuild around 350.00 for a non Gov model. 3 more hours if it is a governor model.  Not to far off the cost of a new one. Or over the cost.  My carb on there now says list 4399. A Holley 4150 Governed the tech at Holley said. And they don’t sell those types anymore.

So my question is how do you tell the difference between a gov carb and not gov carburetor. Would my rig likely have a gov carb. Also would a Holley 80457s make a good bolt on replacement? Anyone use that one before thanks
and this
I am seeking out a rebuild or replacement because that's what drowned into your head.... Engine sits for X years rebuild or replace any fluid and rubber hose along with the carb.

Depending what mood it's in, It will actually idle when warm. Other half the time it won't stay running when warmed up. It don't leak. I am half temped to remove it shoot carb cleaner all over it and in it and feed it some seafoam or B12. there is already B12 in the tank.

I did call Holley and they suggest that part number I listed in my first post for truck version of my engine without the gov.

I do do most all of my own work, I converted a 42ft school bus (skoolie) into a tiny home so the entire RV/House part is no problem for me and the woodworking etc. I do  nearly all my engine work expect tires and carbs.
are both confusing and contradictory.
As it appears you live in Great Falls, it may be helpful for you to search out a shop that works on and builds hot rods. Or possibly a local web site that is old time muscle car orientated. Possibly, given the age of your engine and carb, you 'may' find some help.
It is not our abilities that show what we truly are - it is our choices.
Albus Dumbledore

Offline bigskypc50mt

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  • Year: 1970
  • Model: 25
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 413
Re: 1970 413 carburetor woes
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2022, 02:08 AM »
After looking it over closely, I don't think that new holly will work, I have a few connections etc, that don't line up with the new one. One is a line from center left edge of my carb and also I don't have any wires to the choke (carb), mine has a tube that I assume runs to the exhaust. 

Offline Mlw

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  • Engine: 360-3 4 BBL
Re: 1970 413 carburetor woes
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2022, 01:06 PM »
You are making all the right suggestions to at least try to get the engine running better.

I know how frustrating it can be when "it" sometimes does work and sometimes doesn't. I've worked for a yachtbroker for a few years who also had an outboard workshop. In the beginning of the season there were days that all we did was clean carburetors. So take them apart, put them in an ultrasonic bath blow out all the holes and jets, put them together again and finetune them to the ear (idle as high as possible on the idle mixture screw while idling as low as possible on the idling adjustment screw. When you are removing jets and screws always use the right screwdrives in width and thickness.

If you do your engine work. I guarantee you, you can also do your carb work. It really isn't difficult once you know the tricks and If I can do it, you can do it. Take plenty of pictures were everything was and you're good to go. My luck was a mechanic colleague learning me the fine tricks when I worked for the sailing yacht broker

But nowadays with youtube you also have your own mechanic telling you what to do. even better, you can put him on pause when you want to... I couldn't  :)rotflmao

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bv9NIIJ3rFc

And changing all the fluids an hoses, I am with you 100%. But Holleys are high quality carbs, so it can well be if you buy a new one you are just throwing money down the drain, because all a carb does (new or old) is mixing air and fuel the right way when they are in a healthy condition.

So have a go. You allready have in mind to buy a new one so what's there to loose if you screw up the old one.

The Line and tube you are describing I think are vacuum lines. those can be capped off if not needed. the electric wiring on the new carb is probably for the automatic choke.

Normally with a new carb you also get a manual how do connect all the connection points of your new carb.

If you want to learn, watch some video's from uncle tony, he explains a lot.

OK then, one more for your idling problem.  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpHC-SQVXH8