Author Topic: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion  (Read 735 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
'93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« on: August 17, 2022, 04:28 PM »
First off let me introduce myself. I'm WillyT. I am new to the group and this is my first post.
 I have owned my 1993 28' Georgie Boy class A on a P30 frame for 3 years now. I have completed many repairs and upgrades to "Maureen". And she's very happy for it.
I apologize for the length of this post. But felt, since I'm new to the forum, I should give some background.
Our current project is addressing the hot running/ over heating problems of the Chevy 454.
I had the original radiator rebuilt last spring. Reinstalled it with new fan clutch and original fan shroud. On our 2nd trip of the summer, on a climb up a long hill. She pulled the fan shroud loose from the bottom clips. sucked it into the fan and destroyed the shroud. Luckily the radiator received no damage.
I've looked high and low for a new shroud. I have found nothing. I even tried to get one made. But as soon as anyone that could make one heard it was for an older motorhome.... they didn't want anything to do with it.
So I committed to converting to electric fans. And the project is going well.
Until now.... Here's the problem:
I need to install the temperature switch in the cylinder head to activate the fans at the appropriate time/ temp. On the passenger side is the temp sensor for the computer. This, as far as I know is not an option. On the driver's side the temp sender is for the gauge on the dashboard. That's real important information that I monitor constantly while driving.
So here's the question:
What do I do now? Where can I install this temperature switch and still maintain a working gauges? What am I missing here?

Offline Mlw

  • Major Post Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 290
  • Member since: 2021
  • I own a: Winnebago
  • Year: 1979
  • Model: Minnie Winnie W424RH
  • Chassis: Dodge MB400
  • Engine: 360-3 4 BBL
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2022, 03:25 PM »
You are making an add-on to the RV that originally wasn't designed for this.

If there is no place to attach the sensor to the cylinder head there is no other way to make a place yourself. So drill a hole, tap a threath in the hole so you can screw the sensor in.

This said, you really need to know what you are doing so expert advice for this is needed. As far as I understand there still are specialist or classic car shops in the USA that can do this for you.

As for reproducing an object that is discontinued, have you tried a 3d printer shop? I saw it once in episode 152 of Wheeler Dealers where Mike and Ant restored a 1976 Ford Capri. there was a plastic (discontinued) part of the sunroof broken which was a common known problem and they had it reprinted and fix the problem.

Wheeler Dealers Series 15 (2018/2019 episode 152


Offline TerryH

  • 6 year member - Full time RVer
  • Top Post Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 801
  • Member since: 2013
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1992
  • Model: Brave 27RC
  • Chassis: GMC P30
  • Engine: 454 Dual Fuel
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2022, 04:10 PM »
Personally, I would think long and hard before drilling and tapping into an 'in place' head. You would create a fair amount of shavings as well as hoping to hit a water jacket. Is it possible to source a T or Y fitting for the dash sensor? Or to tie the fan switch wiring into the gauge wiring? If the fan manufacturer has a customer support service they may be able to advise you. Another alternative is to wire the fan switch to a dash switch that you can turn on and off as required by monitoring your dash temperature gauge.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
   Edmund Burke

Offline Eyez Open

  • Major Post Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 218
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1983
  • Model: Imperial 33
  • Chassis: P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2022, 05:01 PM »
Unless you run a machine shop I'd stay away from such matters, there are plenty of tap points in the block/intake..Aside from that heads run quite a bit hotter than what you might think.

Offline udidwht

  • Post Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
  • Member since: 2018
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1994
  • Model: Southwind Storm 28ft
  • Chassis: P30
  • Engine: 454TBI w/4L80E
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2022, 07:58 PM »
The 93 P-30 chassis should have (3) sensors

1. Passenger side near head (this turns on the auxiliary fan)
2. Drivers side near head (dash temp gauge)
3. Front side of intake manifold below the bypass hose. (This is for the ECM)

If you wire it into the passenger side sensor it is designed to kick on at approximately 221F
1994 Fleetwood Southwind Storm 28ft
P30 454 TBI w/4L80E VIN#1GBJP37N4R3314754
68,295 miles and count

Online eXodus

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 2003
  • Model: Trail Lite
  • Chassis: Chevy P32
  • Engine: 350 Vortec
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2022, 08:35 AM »
I've glued a Bi-Metallic switch to the thermostat housing.  Just clean it really good - and use high temp epoxy.  I've strapped the switch down with a ZipTie and let the epoxy cure for 48 hrs - still there a decade or so later.



that switch runs to a relay which then starts the Fan. Pretty simple, nothing to cut, no change to the original system.  I've wired the fan directly from the fuse Terminal
I did that like 15 years ago, so don't ask me what temperature switch I used  i??

Downside of my configuration is - the fan keeps running as long the engine is hot.  So you turn the engine off - the fan keeps blowing - not very long usually 2-5 minutes.
I kept it, because I believe that reduces the heat soak after shut off. 

One more thing,  I've added a deflector plate under the hood - between fiberglass front nose and the upper radiator support -  so all air going to the grill is forced into the radiator.  It can not escape up and above the engine anymore.
That reduced the times my radiator fan start  2/3s  as long as I'm driving.

Online eXodus

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 2003
  • Model: Trail Lite
  • Chassis: Chevy P32
  • Engine: 350 Vortec
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2022, 08:39 AM »








1/2 Polyiso insulation board

Offline Oz

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 4052
  • Member since: 2002
  • I own a: Winnebago
  • Year: 1974
  • Model: D24 Indian
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2022, 07:27 AM »
I've glued a Bi-Metallic switch to the thermostat housing.  Just clean it really good - and use high temp epoxy.  I've strapped the switch down with a ZipTie and let the epoxy cure for 48 hrs - still there...


Nice mod!  I agree, I think the downside is really a plus.  Cars for quite some time have had fans which continue to run after shut off for the reason you stated.

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2022, 10:26 AM »
Thanks everyone for the replies. There is some really good advise and ideas here.
In the time that passed waiting to be approved as a member. I did some digging on my own. Attended a few 'Youtube University' classes on the subject. And decided to try an insert in the upper radiator hose with a cooler than called for switch (180 on 165 off). The complete install is almost done.
I'll let everyone know how it turns out.
And hopefully add to the collective knowledge of the group.

Offline udidwht

  • Post Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
  • Member since: 2018
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1994
  • Model: Southwind Storm 28ft
  • Chassis: P30
  • Engine: 454TBI w/4L80E
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2022, 06:25 PM »
Whatever you do do not replace the OEM T stat (195F) with one that is cooler. The engine will run richer as a result and lower your MPGs.
1994 Fleetwood Southwind Storm 28ft
P30 454 TBI w/4L80E VIN#1GBJP37N4R3314754
68,295 miles and count

Online eXodus

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 2003
  • Model: Trail Lite
  • Chassis: Chevy P32
  • Engine: 350 Vortec
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2022, 05:42 AM »
Will be interested for pictures of the electric fan setup.

Which fans did you get?

Yeah don't change the hydraulic Thermostat. Those 454 are happy at up 230F.
195 is the lowest Thermostat I would run.. otherwise fuel mileage will suffer.

I think my 1996 454 came with a 205 or 210 Thermostat.

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2022, 06:05 PM »
OK, today was the 1st test run. It's 100 deg out so was a good time to test.
Every thing worked as it should. But I would like the fans to kick on a bout 20 deg sooner so I ordered a cooler thermo switch. But I had installed a bypass switch mounted on the dash, just in case.
And I think the install looks pretty good, if I do say so myself.
BUT, it does not do the job. Motor overheated before I got out of town. I feel like it's not moving enough air. Maybe even less than originally. Like maybe when the plastic fan blades got hot they flattened out.
Pretty frustrated right now. But I'll get past that. Just gotta keep working the problem.
Just FYI the fan/ Shroud is the ALLOYWORKS Aluminum Radiator Shroud+2x12" Fan bought off amazon. But the fans appear to be standard with all suppliers.
Thought?

Offline yellowrecve

  • 9 year member
  • Post Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 85
  • Member since: 2012
  • I own a: a Bus Conversion
  • Year: 1974
  • Model: Club Car Dial-A-Bus
  • Chassis: Dodge RM350
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2022, 11:09 PM »
I put my fan in front of the rad. I'm pushing cold air into and threw the rad.
RV repairman and builder of custom luxury motor homes, retired, well, almost, after 48 years.

Online eXodus

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 2003
  • Model: Trail Lite
  • Chassis: Chevy P32
  • Engine: 350 Vortec
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2022, 05:16 AM »
The 90s P30 had a Fan in front of the Radiator pushing in addition to the mechanical fan in the back pulling.

12 inch fan doesn't really tell us very much.  They make 12 inch fans between 600 CFM and 1750 CFM
You should be looking to get at least 3000 CFM total for a 454.

When I converted mine more then a decade ago - I used the original Fan shroud and installed a single large electric fan from the Junkyard.
Not sure the donor - I think it was a Volvo ;) 

So you got options here:
1. Add another fan in front of the Radiator
2. Switch out those fans with higher flowing ones
3. Remove the whole thing and get a single large one

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2022, 08:34 PM »
Gentlemen,
First off, thanks for taking an interest in this project. I need someone who gets what I'm trying to do. Has some experience with the same type of project. So thank you.
Are my pics being posted? I'm not seeing them. I posted several pics of the cooling project so far. But.....

After an afternoon of looking, the only CFM info I could find on the fans I have is that they are 1750 cfm (info from Amazon). But I'm doubtful of that number. And I think they are not moving as much air as they did when I tested them before starting the engine and getting it warm or hot as the case may be.
I think I'm gonna try 2x 14" 1900 CFM fans. That's 3800 CFM total. Should be enough. And at a 9.5 amp draw no rewiring will be involved.
The single 16" fan will move up to 3000 cfm. But with a radiator core measuring 20x33 one wont cover much of the radiator.
But I can't shake the feeling I'm missing something.

Online eXodus

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 2003
  • Model: Trail Lite
  • Chassis: Chevy P32
  • Engine: 350 Vortec
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2022, 09:16 PM »
Sure, happy to help.
Yeah getting something larger single in the aftermarket is difficult.  I think the opening for the mechanical fan is about 19-20 inches.
You have the old fan blade probably laying around somewhere.  Measure and see how much real opening the old fan had. Radiator size doesn't really matter.

That's why I used a Electric Car Radiator fan back then-  it fitted the original Fan Shroud perfectly.

https://www.etrailer.com/dept-pg-Radiator_Fans.aspx

Little pricy but lots of options.- I think the Junkyard fan I used was like $20. With inflation probably $50 by now lol


Online eXodus

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 2003
  • Model: Trail Lite
  • Chassis: Chevy P32
  • Engine: 350 Vortec
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2022, 09:18 PM »
another idea - how much gap do you have between the radiator and that aluminum piece?

You need to have some decent clearance - otherwise the fans are only pulling air directly behind them and not through the whole radiator.

Offline Mlw

  • Major Post Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 290
  • Member since: 2021
  • I own a: Winnebago
  • Year: 1979
  • Model: Minnie Winnie W424RH
  • Chassis: Dodge MB400
  • Engine: 360-3 4 BBL
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2022, 02:45 AM »
To be honest, I personally think it's best not to trust on Amazon or similar online shops when it goes about items as important as your radiator fan, even more so when it will becone your main fan.

Amazon is a shop which assortment exists mainly out of China junk as your radiator fans or products where you are way better off buying from the supplier directly, because of pricing, warrenties etc. I will admit that China junk does look cool, it's shiny, and hey, it's cheap. But time after time  the China junk proves not to be what it promisses, so people buy the next China junk product because they don't want to pay for a quality product that will work for years to come because they are often way overpriced. I learned my lessons the hard way however so NEVER China junk for me again if I can help it and I'm just trying to save you the agony and frustration.

I just can't get it that your engine is a chevy 454, one of the most comon engines in the USA, and that there isn't a fan shroud out there anymore. Is the set up for a GeorgieBoy really that different because hust by typing Chevy 454 fan shroud, I get this:

https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fan-shrouds/make/chevrolet/engine-size/7-4l-454/fan-shroud-material/plastic

But Exodus gave you some really excellent tips so maybe you have enough to go on allready.

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2022, 09:51 PM »
Mlw,
Thanks for the advice and the link.
You are right about Amazon and Chinese crap. And I'm learning much on this journey. I'm looking at electric fans at Summit Racing already.
I've looked a lot for a shroud for the mechanical fan. But even summit doesn't give enough info such as dimensions of the shroud to be sure it is the right one. Or at least close. And filtering to 1993 Chevy P30 always ends in a 'Not Available' response. In this application the radiator is off set to the drivers side quite a bit. and the shroud reflects that in it's shape. And the radiator is HUGE the core measures 20.5" high and 33.5" wide.
So these are other reasons why I've gone down this electric fan road.
But again, thanks for your response. And I'll take your advice about amazon junk. At least when it comes to auto parts.

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2022, 09:58 PM »
Yep, I had the clearance issue thought as well. That's why I'm gonna try 2X 14" or maybe 2X 16" (if they'll fit) fans mounted directly to the radiator core. And abandon the Amazon crap.
If this does not work I've got another problem. But I know the thermostat is good I replaced it last year. And the upper hose pressurizes at the right time. And the pump is new as of a year ago as well. and 1000 miles or so.

Online eXodus

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 2003
  • Model: Trail Lite
  • Chassis: Chevy P32
  • Engine: 350 Vortec
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2022, 06:00 AM »
The P30 chassis had the radiator mount included - so all 454  from similar years should have the same fan shroud.

Probably everything from 1980s to 1995ish   454 should have the close matching parts.  Sometime in 1996 the 454 became the 7.4L Vortec and got a new fan blade and shroud.  Might still fit, but probably more changes.

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2022, 07:16 PM »
I am taking your suggestions and researching. The early 90' Chevy 1500 shroud looks very close. But no matter how hard I look I can't seem to find dimensions. If I could get measurements it would help a lot. But I just don't know. So I ordered 2x 16" fans to mount directly to the radiator core. Ordered from Summit Racing.
If I was an engineer I'd have gotten this right the first time (maybe). But I'm not. So trial and error is the only route. Not my first journey down the TnE road.
But, I find it engaging, entertaining and rewarding when a project is done and working correctly. And I suppose that translates to fun?
And I appreciate you all coming along for the ride. You're all a great help.

The pics are of the original shroud. It is held together with clamps because it is in 5 broken pieces. And a rough drawing I made of it to give some dimensions.

Offline Oz

  • Top Post Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 4052
  • Member since: 2002
  • I own a: Winnebago
  • Year: 1974
  • Model: D24 Indian
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2022, 05:40 AM »
I got you on the trial and error due to lack of expertise.  Finding direct, bolt in changes can be nearly or totally impossiblel.  The upside is that "close" is often the cure with some creative modification.

Offline Eyez Open

  • Major Post Contributor
  • ****
  • Posts: 218
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own a: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1983
  • Model: Imperial 33
  • Chassis: P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2022, 11:46 AM »
Your fans will not function correctly without a cowl,never use a fan blade that is waffled or irregular, I can hardly believe such fan blades are made. Google super cavitation...I cannot even believe experts would question why cowls use energy..Cowls focus large amounts of air..large amounts to a confined space or area. Pressurized!

https://youtu.be/Os_Hna9DZa8

pressurize verb
Save Word
To save this word, you'll need to log in.

Log In
pres·​sur·​ize | \ ˈpre-shə-ˌrīz  \
pressurized; pressurizing
Definition of pressurize
transitive verb

1: to confine the contents of under a pressure greater than that of the outside atmosphere
especially : to maintain near-normal atmospheric pressure in during high-altitude or spaceflight (as by means of a supercharger)
2: to apply pressure to

Offline WillyT

  • New Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 9
  • Member since: 2022
  • I own a: Georgie Boy
  • Year: 1993
  • Model: Swinger
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: '93 P30 454 Electric Cooling Fan Conversion
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2022, 04:24 PM »