Author Topic: Roof repair: the problems, the following  (Read 622 times)

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Offline Mlw

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Roof repair: the problems, the following
« on: January 11, 2022, 07:09 AM »
Hi Guys,

I guess it is time to make a follow up to roof problems. there are a few topics here with very usefull information, but allready more then a decade old, and I feel they are leaving a lot of questions open. Because the topics are more then a decade old and the original posters are not active on this platform anymore, asking questions have no use. next to this I have seen way to many youtube video's about roofrepairs leaving me with more questions then answering them.

 I will have to replace my roof however or face multiple leakages in the years to come as my roof is as leaky as it can be because it is absolutely full of pinholes resembling a starry sky on a very clear night. As I want to do it right the first time and don't want a leaky roof for years to come, I would like to hear from people who actually have managed to replace their roof and kept it dry in the following years.

Possibilities I saw

New Aluminium roofing.
Placing a new aluminium plate on the roof will probably cost me $800,= !-! in the Netherlands.
Then you will still have the problem with galvanic corrosion as the frame is made from steel sensitive to rust, which isn't fixable unless you tear the whole RV down Next to this I'm actually not sure you can glue the ceilingplates back to the aluminium the same way as done in the '70s due to the state of the "environmentally friendly" glues nowadays.
Next to this I absolutely have no idea how I'm going to pressurize the plates so they really stick.

Now I've seen dozen of youtube video's where people tear the ceiling down to bare aluminium, place rockwool and then put plywood underneath and shooting staples everywhere. Mostly you see in the comments that they have leaky roofs again in no time. I'm also really wondering how the roof is behaving in strong winds and how they are going to walk on the roof cause with rockwool the only support Will be the frame.

Leaving the Aluminium plate and covering it up with liquid rubber
Also a expensive option as you will need gallons of the stuff to actually seal everything off as far as i understood from former answers.
maybe a good option for roofs not as far gone as mine. Furthermore the only stuff found is "Bison Liquid rubber" and it's black. Not the color you want on your roof.

For our German members, how is the availability of roof repair options in Germany because in the Netherland they are non existing as far as i can tell.

Repacing the roof with wood
Also an option I've seen a lot, but as far I've calculated you will at least double the weight of your roof.
I see however no other option, and can reduce the weight by removing the old Coleman Rotary Mini mach and replace it with a underfloor AC.
For people who did replace the roof with wood and added weight: How is your RV handling with added weight to your roof?

Offline Elandan2

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2022, 09:12 AM »
What about putting on an EPDM (rubber) roof coating. Here is a sellers website with lots of info about installation. I seem to remember there are members here who have done this. http://bestmaterials.com/EPDM-roofing.aspx

Rick and Tracy Ellerbeck

Offline Mlw

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2022, 09:29 AM »
Yes I saw it, plus there are many other options in the USA

The problem is that I'm living in Europe and here it's the other way around and shipping cost from the USA to Europe are to the moon and back at the moment.

thanks for the tip do, surely it's helpfull for people in the USA and Canada:)ThmbUp

Offline eXodus

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2022, 08:03 PM »
there is a large RV building in industry in Germany.

https://www.amumot.de/wohnmobil-dach-neu-beschichten-abdichten/

They are using a lot of Epoxy based products.

Offline Mlw

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2022, 03:47 AM »
In advance: Sorry for the long answer. The real reason I posted this was to get information about the behaviour of the RV after a rebuild and added weight.

But as there is new excellent info added I do hope we can help future buyers with this post because honestly I you are going to but a RV over 40 years old you ALWAYS going to face waterdamage less or worse. Next to this I probably would not have bought the RV if I knew things would turn out as bad as they did. I took a gamble and lost, and so have to bite the bullet.

As Frank Sinatra sang: That's life. Enjoy, and hopfully I will at least help somebody out with this.


To exodus
Damn, I have seen this years ago when i still was working in the boating industry, It just shows how small our world can be.
I've worked a lot with epoxy and double primer paints too and This is exactly the way I want to go, with the difference that I'm going to replace the whole roof. Like I said, the problem is that the aluminium roofplate is full of pinholes so I know now that the roof is a tremendous problem. The biggest cause of the problem is that everything on the RV is attached with platescrews and staples. By the movement of the RV and stress it creates they get loose and water can get in freely, the steel frame will rust, drenching the plywood with rusty water causing galvanic corrosion with the aluminium and the drama is complete. The Ceilingplates i removed were absolutely drenched with water and I got showered when I removed the first of them.

Just sealing the outer roof with epoxy can hold the water out, but then you still have the problems earlier mentioned inside, and be honest, would you be happy knowing there is drenched wood with lots of rusty water above your head only kept in by a very thin sheet of nylon over 40 years old? If we ever get out of the lockdown here, (hopefully next week but probably in the beginning of April/may (experiences last year) I will try to make a video.

Some information in between
for future buyers you can be fooled by this easily. Buying the RV i Knocked the outside from front to back and from top to bottom, the insides AND the ceiling. I was on the roof and and except for the places where the ceilingplates came of and a softspots in the area of the ladder and the shower, nothing pointed in the direction the roof would be so bad as it turned out to be and is accessable.

The roof exists out of a aluminium plate. between the Aluminium plate and the steel frame there is plywood existing out of 3 thin sheets glued together. This plywood is pressurized and glued to the aluminum creating isolation between the steel and the aluminum. to this sheet they glue the Styrofoam (also pressurized). The Styrofoam will absolutely not absorb water, and this becomes reason one why you get fooled easily.
On the innersite of the Styrofoam they also glue 3 thin sheets of plywood pressurized. and cover the whole ceiling of wit a sheet of nylon film, reason no. 2 you get fooled. Because everything is pressureglued together you get one strong ceiling that you can walk on.

Now because the Nylon sheet doesn't let water thru and the Styrofoam doesn't absorb water it has one way to go, into the plywood. the water in the wood creates a highway for rust and bacteria to spread into the wood. the water will not be drained because of the nylon sheet so the wood Will NOT rot away. This happens when wood gets wet, then dries, get wet again etc. The smell erupting from removing the ceiling was rust and chemicals and not the smell of rotten eggs. Because the walls did got wet and dry they were damaged and the reason I got a huge part of the askingprice.

So when you knock the ceiling, the wood sounds fine, (as it always will sound softer due to the Styrofoam).but the water will eventually cause the glue to dissolve and as the glue between the aluminium roof and the upper plywood takes the weight this will go first. As glues from the '70s were much more chemical then they are today, this is a very slow process which have taken years and loosened only 2 unsupported ceiling plates in the sitting area.

Closure
I'm still curious how the behaviour of a RV is with added weight to the roof . When there is anybody out there with experience, I'm happy to hear from you

Offline Oz

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 08:08 AM »
It's not like you're adding 2,000lbs on top.  Even with roll on rubber, it's only a couple hundred spread out evenly over the entire surface, so it's not going to act like it's noticeably top heavy.  No difference in handling, lean on curves, ride quality or anything has ever been noted here, as it wouldn't be expected to.

Offline LJ-TJ

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2022, 07:42 PM »
Not sure if this will work. This is a product LJ and I used on our rig. It worked like a dream and we've never had a problem afer all these years.

Offline LJ-TJ

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2022, 08:10 PM »
Here's a little more info Hm?

Offline Mlw

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2022, 01:13 PM »
@oz,

Thank you, that's the answer i was hoping for.

@LJ-TJ

I will see if the product is available in Europe too because the description looks really good, as your own experiences.
Importing it to the Netherlands will probably cost me a small fortune next to the question if it's legal to import it.

Just placed a new order on Rock auto for new coolant hoses, waterpump, fanclutch, and filter $145,=
Shipping costs to that, $95,= and then importfees  $50,= total $290
But if I buy exactly the same in a USA specialist shop here in the Netherlands I Will pay $390,=

It's so nice to live in the Netherlands.  :)ThmbUp :)

Offline yellowrecve

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2022, 10:55 PM »
Being a Winni, the walls and roof are probably vacuum bonded. Exterior aluminium [ may be bonded to 1/8 panel] bonded to styrofoam bonded to wood panel.
RV repairman and builder of custom luxury motor homes, retired, well, almost, after 48 years.

Offline Mlw

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2022, 03:18 AM »
 ??? ??? ??? Boy oh boy, Are you the man I wanted to hear from ??? ??? ???

The RV I have Is a 1979 Minnie Winnie WD24RH on a Dodge M400 Chassis.

The ceilingplates are/were bonded to the aluminiumroof, so the walls will as well? If so, how was it glued together, with or without pressure? I'm asking this because the inner undersides are as far I know completely rotted (grey area)



So is this one build differently than in https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=16359.msg100299;topicseen#msg100299 because I could screw the cabinetry loose from the inside.

Your information would be much appreciated.  :angel:

Offline Elandan2

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2022, 08:53 AM »
You can get the Winnebago factory service manual in the store. It has quite detailed information about the sidewall and roof construction and repair methods.
Rick and Tracy Ellerbeck

Offline LJ-TJ

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2022, 09:08 AM »
Yep! The Winnebago Factory Manual is worth it's weight in gold. I litteraly shows how the factory makes all their repairs. Right down to how to replace the felt in the windows. It's a good investment. :)ThmbUp

Offline yellowrecve

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2022, 10:43 PM »
As stated. Get the manual. Will save me writing the book. 
RV repairman and builder of custom luxury motor homes, retired, well, almost, after 48 years.

Offline Mlw

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Re: Roof repair: the problems, the following
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2022, 10:18 AM »
And another excellent tip. I will order it. Thanks guys :)ThmbUp