Older vs newer Cummin diesels

Started by westcoast redneck, November 14, 2008, 09:44 AM

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westcoast redneck

Sent: 8/14/2005

I want to educate my self on the difference between the newer quieter Cummins Turbo diesels & the older louder ones in case I do a conversion from my 440-3.Need to know what year the new ones kicked in.Auto tranny, whats best with these & so on .I would think the best way would be to get a low millage 1 ton thats been wrecked & convert everything over.Any advise would be great .Thanks guys& gals

From: chip   
Sent: 8/14/2005 2:43 PM

i have a 2004.5 and I'm not aware of any dimensional differences. i think they just keep adding more fuel and air to make more power.

Sent: 8/14/2005 3:58 PM

     I have a 2002 Dodge with the Cummins, it's loud, but real trucks rattle.  Anyway, it makes enough power that towing my 31' Airstream I can pass 4 clyinder cars while climbing up steep grades.  Put the hammer down and any Cummins (new or old) will make more than enough power to run your winne great.  Cummins changed the location of the oil injectors in 2004 to make the newer models run quieter.  They also put bigger fuel injectors in (like Chip stated) to up the power.  Bigger injectors can easily be added to any older Cummins for a few hundred bucks.  Keep your eyes open for a wrecked truck, but be prepared to pay around $6-8k for a Cummins/tranny with reasonable mileage on it.  This seems to be the average.                                 

From: SmallDiscoveries1   
Sent: 8/15/2005 9:42 AM

It was 1998 when the B became a 24 valve engine in the Dodge. I was working at the CMEP then, in IT. I believe I got a cool looking shirt when that happened.

From: <WestcoastRedneck5   
Sent: 8/15/2005 7:04 PM

another diesel Question.You always here about Cummins turbo diesels are so good. Can anyone tell me specifically why.what make them better than the rest. ???

Sent: 8/15/2005 8:18 PM

     In my opinion the Cummins engine is superior because they have manufactured heavy duty diesels for many, many, many years.  Cummins builds the in-line 6 cylinder engine offered in the Dodge p/u just like they make the larger in-line 6 cylinders for the big rigs, construction equipment, generators, etc.  In my opinion it just boils down to they really know what they are doing.
     The power stroke diesel available in the Ford is also a good diesel, if you want an 8 cylinder engine.  These engines are manufactured by Navistar, the makers of the International.  Some of the smaller straight trucks built by International have the Navistar 444 DT, this is basically the same engine in the Ford.  The bigger, more powerful engine is the 466 DT, this engine an in-line 6.  My current work truck has this particular engine and I think it's great, but I have driven the 444 DT and found it too underpowered.  It's all a matter of opinion.
      The Duramax that is offered by GM is also a great V-8 diesel, making lots of power, but is relitively new to the market and is experiencing some design problems.  The block is cast iron, with aluminum heads, and this is creating some problems; high rates of blown head gaskets, warping, etc...  I'd wait a few more years till they work out the bugs on this one.  Oh, and this particular engine is manufactured by Isuzu, so the parts are pretty pricey.

From: jr182pilot   
Sent: 8/16/2005 12:11 PM

Here is a good site to check out http://forums.thedieselstop.com the forums have a lot to offer.....

BUG SMASHER 84 Winnebago 22' Chieftain, Chevy 454

From: Cooneytunes1   
Sent: 8/16/2005 10:06 PM

I agree ..the 444 Navistar,  to say it's under powered is to say the least. I believe it's only around 225hp...I have a 2000, 44 passenger International Bus with the 444 in it.  With 40 adults, it can hardly make most hills at 35 mph..it is governed at 2650 rpm's or 65 mph ... you may get to 70 downhill until the rpms get crunched by the governor...gets between 6 and 7 mpg.... Not a good choice for mountain or hilly areas...you can get a run on a hill at 65 mph, or start from a dead stop at the bottom, you'll be doing the same speed at the top of the hill either way...I wish it would have came with the 466 instead.
I know several people around here that work or worked for Cummins and they take pride in the workmanship that goes into their work. Cummings also backs there stuff better than most.

From: jbmhotmail   
Sent: 8/17/2005 2:29 AM

For some really good B and C series Cummins info, check out: http://dieselinjection.net and click on "B and C Cummins Products".

Sent: 8/17/2005 7:32 PM

     My work truck is a 2003 International 4300 with the DT 466, rated at 240 hp, not sure of the torque, with an eaton fuller 6 speed manual.  Loaded out at approx 30k she still pulls like a bat of of Hell.  My old truck was a 2001 Chevy C-6500 with the Cat 3126B, rated at 210 hp., same tranny.  Total P.O.S.  No power at all.  Gets progressively worse after you get about 80k miles on it.  It now has about 140k on it and the guy who drives it now absolutely hates it.  We also have a 1998 with about 180k on it and it's about done.  We have a 1995 with the old 3116 in it with about 200k, and it's about ready for the pasture.  These Cats stink.  They are throw away motors, non rebuildable.  The really start coming apart at the seams with about 100k on them.  Bad oil leaks are a very comment occourance with these engines, and service on a Cat costs a lot of $$$$$$.  I have these trucks serviced every 6k miles so they should last forever.  Stay away from anything with these engines.  A customer of ours that owns an ice house has 5 Internationals from the very early '90's that all have over 400k on them.  They look beat, but they still run.
     We bought a brand new 2004 Isuzu 26k lb. truck last year, and it's been a headache from word go.  It's supposed to be one of the most reliable medium duty trucks made, I guess we got a lemon.  It came from the factory with bent cab mounts, no radio ant., a leaky fuel line at the tank, etc..  It spent approx a whole month of downtime this spring when it let a driver sit along the road after losing all engine power.  They "fixed" it and I went to pick it up.  It broke down on me on the way home.  Several weeks later they finally had it fixed after 3 tries and many new parts.  The truck only had 36k miles on it.  Parts for these are only located at 2 warehouses in the US.  One in Cally, and one in Ohio (I think).  I'd stay away from this also.

Sent: 8/17/2005 7:37 PM

     I believe Redneck was talking about the newest Cummins in the Dodge, which I believe they changed in 2004.  It's much quieter than the old 12 and the 24 valve.  The newest engine is still about the same as the older 24 valve, they just gave her more gas and air, and changed the location of the oil injectors to reduce the noise.  Ford did the same when they designed the new 6.0 Powerstroke, it's also much quieter now.

From: WestcoastRedneck5   
Sent: 8/18/2005 10:55 PM

You nailed it. More air is always great but more gas .Is this good.I've heard that the new  Cummings are not as fuel efficient.Better to have more noise than blow the mileage.Does anyone have first or second knowledge of this.Also  when your talking 24 valve. Are you talking 2 exhaust & 2 intake.?Also thanks for the warning of the cat engines.I'm full of Questions.Curious,  is the Cummings more or less than my 440-3 in weight.I'll stop while I'm behind.Thanks Eh

From: chip   
Sent: 8/21/2005 9:45 PM

hard to believe but mileage and power are both better. my last fill up average was 18.9.
the cummins is wicked heavy. more than the 440, i believe.

Sent: 8/22/2005 7:33 PM

If memory serves me correctly, without looking in the manual, the Cummins 24 valve in my truck is rated at over 1,200 lbs, dry block weight.  This doesn't include the 2 batteries, the alternator, 12 quarts of oil, etc...  They really have to beef up the suspension to handle these engines.

From: WestcoastRedneck5   
Sent: 8/22/2005 11:24 PM

Thanks chip.Have to look at everything if I ever do this. Does anyone have a more firm weight on the 440.So far I here 1200 lbs dry for the Cummins.?

From: chip   
Sent: 8/22/2005 11:35 PM

someone posted a great site where a guy put the Cummins engine/trans combo in a travco. the pictures were good and it looked like he did a real nice job.

From: rugar20   
Sent: 8/26/2005 6:23 PM

I work for a Cummins distr.  Our company supplies all the engine and transmissions to monaco coach company here is Elkhart.  The ISB as Cummins calls it now is the B series engine full electronic. They quited the noise by using a one piece valve cover along with a different gasket also they got rid of the mechanical fuel injectors and now they are electrically fired solenoids. I drive a 2003 dodge 2500  loaded down  with some major weight  as it is my work vehicle i carry oil antifreeze batteries plus a lot of other items.  I average approx 17mpg in the city. they changed the engine in 2002 for the 2003 model year dodges they have steadily increased the horsepower and torque outputs though.  I believe the 2005 model  comes standard at 600 ft-lbs of torque with  350 horsepower

From: WestcoastRedneck5   
Sent: 8/28/2005 6:27 PM

350 hp, 600lbs torque,2005.That could take my 1978 D22  up any logging rd pulling my boat without sweating a bit.Anyone have one for $2000?? Maybe some ocean front in Arizona too.!Great info thanks

From: MamasTight1   
Sent: 8/30/2005 4:55 PM

We have a 1995 Dodge Ram with a Cummins.  We get around 25 mpg when we are
not pulling and around 1/2 that when we pull a 27 1/2 foot fifth wheel.  I don't think it is too noisy to drive.  The only time I have a problem with noise is when ordering from a fast food speaker.  They will ask you to turn it off.  Hope this helps.