46RH (A518) Conversion project

Sasquatch · April 14, 2018, 06:03 PM

Just swapped my spark plug wires, cap and rotor.... can I have a re-do on my vacation? Old wires ohmed out at between 11K and 16k ohms with two of them dead. New ones all between 700-900 ohms.... She runs so smooth now...

Next, transmission pressure test.

Sasquatch · April 11, 2018, 12:15 AM

Frank, no, i dont. I had a core 727, but that does not help me.

Froggy1936 · April 11, 2018, 12:11 AM

Don't you have a spare valve body ? Frank

Sasquatch · April 10, 2018, 08:29 PM

Rick, you are probably right, but I want to dot every I and cross every T so that I can narrow in on the real cause. I am not going to drive it again until my new parts come in.

Shawn, I also checked resistance as well as continuity through the wires and solenoid. All is good. In fact, the Solenoid even checks good as far as resistance, so in theory, it should work. But theory is not always correct. The ball could be stuck, debris in it (doubtful with how clean they got everything), or some other issue.

I am betting, quite frankly, that when I burnt the transmission to the ground on my first attempt that somehow I warped the valve body so that the OD selector valve does not slide properly in the bore once pressures get up to running pressures. If that valve is hanging up or dragging, it would cause the multiple things I have experienced with the OD since I got on the road. So, that is where I am placing my money. I did order a new solenoid, and will install it in any case, but I bet I will have to pull the valve body one last time and focus on that valve.

Teaching my youngest daughter how to drive the RV....

My traveling companions

Shawn62 · April 10, 2018, 02:46 PM

Glad to hear you made it home to your own shop. Hope the OD problem is a simple fix. I had a wiring problem with a solenoid once. I checked the wires for continuity and voltage drop and they were ok. I was about ready to order a new solenoid. I then remembered to check the resistance. Turned out a wire was badly corroded inside the insulation. Resistance was way high. PO had a habit of poking holes in wires with test light probe. I rewired it and was good to go. Good luck.

Froggy1936 · April 10, 2018, 02:20 PM

Very good to be back home where you can Diagnose one thing at a time with less pressure Good Luck Frank

Rickf1985 · April 10, 2018, 08:39 AM

I seriously doubt that you would have enough inductive current to cause damage and generally that kind of noise does not affect mechanical solenoids. It is high voltage but low current. It will definitely affect your fuel injection system though! And it will affect the fuel mileage on the injection system. Are you still in touch with the Trans-go people?

Sasquatch · April 10, 2018, 12:12 AM

I'm home, but the adventure is not quite over. During the test drive Friday evening, we had no OD with the switch. They swapped the OD solenoid with one out of a core transmission they had laying around and OD came back to life. I left Saturday morning early and was happy as a clam until I left north out of Mesquite, NV heading for Salt lake. After 30 or so miles pulling steep grades in 3rd it flattened out and I hit the OD switch, nothing happened. The transmission felt great, just no OD. Temps were cool, shifts nice and firm, good down shifts, etc.

I spent the night at a Walmart in Provo and I went through the wiring to the OD unit and everything still checked out ok. I drove home Sunday, and quite frankly, the head winds were unbelievable. I would have been in 3rd all day anyway. I do not think anything is wrong with the core of the transmission. It feels fantastic. I think the issue lies in the solenoid/valve body or OD piston, all of which can be serviced without pulling the transmission, again.

I am going to hook up my pressure test equipment and take it for a drive with the gauge plugged into the OD port and see what it does. This will give me a good idea where the problem lies. And another point, I am going to get really techie here, but there may be another cause. I noticed a few electrical glitches with the coach while driving home, and at the same time the 440 was not running as smooth as it should. This evening I checked some things out while it was idling roughly. I grabbed a spray bottle with water in it and started spraying the distributor and spark plug wires and you should have seen the light show. Cap was arcing through as well as all the wires. The electrical noise in that engine compartment must have been intense. The power wires to the solenoid ran right by the spark plug wires. It is very possible that this level of intense noise, or a few stray electrical spikes could very well have damaged that solenoid or interfered with it's operation. Sounds like a long shot, but not really out of the realm of realistic possibility.

I wanted to be able to really see a fuel mileage increase, but with the transmission failure, plus the seriously intense head winds both going and returning, and now with the bad ignition system, I am surprised I got the mileage I got. I averaged 7 mpg both going and coming for the entire trip. Exactly what I got last year with no winds or problems.

The times I did have the OD functional, it was great. While I hang my head in failure over no real fuel mileage increase, the added comfort it adds of being able to drive 70 in a much more relaxed manner is worth it.

So, I am still working on it, but she is getting close. I have new ignition wires and components on the way, when they get in I will take it for another drive and see what the pressures are like of if the electrical noise affected the operation. I'll keep you all posted.

Rickf1985 · April 06, 2018, 10:43 AM

So there you go, alignment spot on, probably better than original and I figured those guys would be all over it. Yea, as a mechanic I never liked people hanging over me giving their "opinion" of what was wrong and how to fix it, since their "opinion" was 99% of the time miles off from correct or what was needed. But if they were a true mechanic there is a big difference, first off they usually sit off to the side and say nothing until asked or they offer up very concise descriptions of the problems they were having, and then they leave it to me to diagnose. At that point I know I am dealing with a real mechanic and I will usually involve them in the repair.

Sasquatch · April 06, 2018, 12:06 AM

Not only were they impressed by the modified transmission, the coach as a whole has become quite popular. Even other customers are asking to see the inside and talk to me about it. They are astounded that it is 42 years old. The other mechanics even come over and sneak in and give my girls love when I am off doing other things.

But they were really impressed with how the modified bellhousing worked. They also blew off my disgrace for my failure in the transmission and said that it was really easy to make the mistake I did and that even pros do it on occasion.

Rick, the front pump busing showed no wear. Everything is great.

Rickf1985 · April 05, 2018, 07:45 PM

So what did they think of your modified transmission? And how did the front pump bushing look?

Sasquatch · April 05, 2018, 06:16 PM

Going back together.

The carnage. Did not check flatness. I doubt they were flat.

Froggy1936 · April 05, 2018, 02:39 PM

Opps, Were the burned plates still flat ? or were they concaved ? Got any pics ? Frank

Sasquatch · April 05, 2018, 10:30 AM

Too many nights working on it until midnight after a full day of work I guess. I am not a young buck any more. When I question if I am alive enough to drive, I shouldn't have been building a transmission. D:oH!

Rickf1985 · April 05, 2018, 09:47 AM

And rushing to get it done for your trip. I can tell you about a couple good screwups due to that. Ever forget to tighten the lug nuts on a trailer wheel? Bad things happen. W% W%

Sasquatch · April 05, 2018, 01:05 AM

Yes, I wanted to keep it simple.

Update. Got the overdrive off and it is absolutely toasted. The hard parts look ok, but the frictions and steels, totally wasted. Metal on metal. But then we saw at least one place I messed up. I had the OD clutch packs in backwards with the pressure plate on the wrong end and the thinner of the two taking all the pressure. This could have been all it was. But, we are going through the rest of the transmission to check it out, clean it, and to make sure all is good.

So, it was my mistake. I have no idea how I got them backwards. Total brain fart I guess.

Wantawinnie · April 04, 2018, 04:32 PM

Quote from: Sasquatch on April 04, 2018, 02:03 PM
Keep in mind that this is the two wire non-lockup unit. How I did mine was to wire 12 volts through a toggle switch on the dash, then to a vacuum switch on the manifold then to the OD solenoid. What I was thinking, was that I could just leave the switch on, and if the vacuum was above 7" it would turn the OD on, below it would turn it off. Good in theory, bad in practice.

When I started pulling a hill the vac dropped. It would kick the OD off, then the vac would instantly jump up, turning it back on. This caused the OD to kick on and off. I resolved it by bypassing the vacuum switch and going completely manual. But the problem that caused this failure was still there hiding in the shadows. It was way more drivable with just the manual switch. In fact, I am going to buy a shift knob from a Semi truck with the flip switch built into it for their gear splitter and replace my knob with it. That way I can just flip OD on and off without reaching for the dash when needed.

Ok, for some reason I thought I read you had a lockup version in an earlier post....my mistake. My gear vendor operates off a dimmer switch to control it in manual mode. Fairly convenient but in my case having two side by side could prove to be confusing while driving. I typically let the gear vendor electronics control that gear shift and manual flip the factory overdrive with a repurposed factory toggle on the dash.

I assume you have already read up on using a pressure switch off of the test port to operate overdrive and decided against it? I've heard mixed reviews on it.

Rickf1985 · April 04, 2018, 03:03 PM

I am sure by now they already know about the modified bell housing and all of that but if not be sure to tell them ahead of any extraneous things you did so they will know what to look for. I know what you mean about customers hanging over your shoulder but that pretty much usually pertains to the ones that don't have a clue.

Froggy1936 · April 04, 2018, 02:37 PM

So sorry that you have experienced this problem so far from home, I know the feeling when a project fails in any way . Hopefully they will diagnose it correctly and make repairs . I have always used Good Sam they took me where I wanted to go . I believe its 90% up to the driver , and or owner of the tow rig . Have ing owned and operated tow trucks under contract with AAA They will reimburse any claim as long as membership is good , They do not know the how when and wherefore . The only problem I had with Good Sam also applies to all towing memberships , They cannot respond to any member needing assistance on a limited access HI way (Pa Turnpike ) all the towing there is by contract .Best Wishes see if they will allow you to get pictures Frank

Sasquatch · April 04, 2018, 02:03 PM

Quote from: Wantawinnie on April 04, 2018, 11:26 AM
Really sorry to hear you had a breakdown. I was curious when you said earlier on the trip down how it was banging in and out of overdrive. Was that perhaps the lockup converter engaging? How is your "manual" setup operated now that the vacuum setup is unhooked? On mine the solenoid for overdrive is either powered and in overdrive or not. I flip mine into overdrive at around 45mph and flip it out when slowing down below that mph. How was it still going into and out of overdrive on its own? Like you I am wondering what went wrong and ,provided there is no obvious mechanical issue, what else may have happened.

Keep in mind that this is the two wire non-lockup unit. How I did mine was to wire 12 volts through a toggle switch on the dash, then to a vacuum switch on the manifold then to the OD solenoid. What I was thinking, was that I could just leave the switch on, and if the vacuum was above 7" it would turn the OD on, below it would turn it off. Good in theory, bad in practice.

When I started pulling a hill the vac dropped. It would kick the OD off, then the vac would instantly jump up, turning it back on. This caused the OD to kick on and off. I resolved it by bypassing the vacuum switch and going completely manual. But the problem that caused this failure was still there hiding in the shadows. It was way more drivable with just the manual switch. In fact, I am going to buy a shift knob from a Semi truck with the flip switch built into it for their gear splitter and replace my knob with it. That way I can just flip OD on and off without reaching for the dash when needed.

Wantawinnie · April 04, 2018, 11:26 AM

Really sorry to hear you had a breakdown. I was curious when you said earlier on the trip down how it was banging in and out of overdrive. Was that perhaps the lockup converter engaging? How is your "manual" setup operated now that the vacuum setup is unhooked? On mine the solenoid for overdrive is either powered and in overdrive or not. I flip mine into overdrive at around 45mph and flip it out when slowing down below that mph. How was it still going into and out of overdrive on its own? Like you I am wondering what went wrong and ,provided there is no obvious mechanical issue, what else may have happened.

Sasquatch · April 04, 2018, 10:50 AM

Thanks guys. I appreciate the support.. Now, go to my "go fund me" page.....

A joke, but I am still trying to figure out how to pay for this repair. I am sure it aint gonna be cheap.

Good Sam advertises that they will tow to the closest "qualified" repair facility. At least that is what I read. Kingman was closest, and I picked a transmission shop there and it was a non issue. I have always bounced between AAA and Good Sam for years, but until this pull, never used them. This paid for my years of non use in spades.

While they have given me access to their shop, I am trying to be a respectful customer and stay out of their hair. As a mechanic, it really is bothersome to have a customer watching you work. I will crawl under there this morning with the tech who is going to pull it and give him the codes to the magic handshakes that will make his life easier to remove it. I have done it enough now to know the short cuts to getting it out. Then I am going to bug out and let them work. I am going to have to just put my faith in another mechanic and trust that he will figure it out and get me back on the road. I am sure he will bring me in and show me the carnage and cause, but beyond that, I am keeping my distance and not wearing out my welcome. They said it was a first for them allowing an RVer to stay in their coach on the property while they did the work. I want to make darn sure that when I leave they are more than willing to do it again for another RVer who gets stuck with no where to go. It has been a blessing, heck, they even ran power out to my coach so my batteries stay topped off so I can watch TV, post my failures on this forum, etc. Kermit even came out and played with the girls a bit in the coach last night. My Siamese liked him and believe me, I trust her judgement. Some people she really does not like.

As I type this they are rolling into the shop getting things opened up, so hopefully by this afternoon I have some news for you all.

Rickf1985 · April 04, 2018, 08:59 AM

Absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about, we are all human and therefor we all make mistakes. This may not have even been a mistake, it may have been a running failure, you don't know yet so don't beat yourself up. And even if it was caused by leftover crap, who cares? Anyone else here got the balls to do what you did?...................................... nope, didn't think so.

I wouldn't try it for sure! I might try what you did and test it locally over a long period but sure as hell not a couple thousand mile trip right out of the box! Nope, no embarrassment allowed. N:(

On another note, I thought Good Sam would ONLY tow to one of THEIR service centers? That is what they always told me and that is why I cancelled them. That and they left me on the side of the road because they would not tow my car trailer.
Sounds like you found an excellent shop, I bet they will be quite intrigued with your work. Bet they let you in the work area while they work on it.

Shawn62 · April 04, 2018, 08:47 AM

Sasquatch,

Sorry to hear about your breakdown. Don't be embarrassed. You are more than a good mechanic. In my opinion you are a craftsman. I think it is great that you are sharing your experience. Thank you for that. You write about it very well. Your coach is like a family heirloom. Not only do you keep it maintained you upgrade it and improve its drivability. Thanks again.

Sasquatch · April 03, 2018, 11:49 PM

Well, it ended badly. I pulled over in Wikeup, AZ for a break, and when I tried to go, it refused to move. Overdrive unit is completely locked up. I did all I could on the side of the road, but there was simply nothing I could do. I had to call a tow into Kingman to a transmission shop. I Got in last night and finally squeezed into a stall right before they closed tonight, so they will get on it tomorrow.

The theory: Analyzing my symptoms, my tech call to Transgo, research and talking with the owner here we think there was a failure in the overdrive solenoid or check ball that did not dump the pressure to the OD piston when the switch was shut off. This kept a load on the OD clutch packs binding them and completely wearing them out ultimately siezing them. If we are lucky, we can get away with rebuilding the OD unit and then the valve body to figure out what the cause was. We will see. This is going to be expensive. But, it is a reputable shop and the owner is pretty anal, so when he is done, there should be no more questions.

Before the failure I was totally enjoying the OD unit. The winds died down and the coach was able to cruise at 70 at 2300 RPM's maintaining a vacuum reading of 10-14". I was really enjoying it until it blew. This is the first time in my coaches 42 year life that it has ever been on a hook or had to pay for someone else to repair it (other than tires and alignments).

Let me tell you, there is no worse feeling than being stuck in the middle of nowhere with a broken rig, 800 miles from my own shop, and two cats in the rig so I could not leave it. Good Sam roadside assistance paid for itself in spades with the tow. The tow was $750 and all covered by the insurance.

If anyone is in Kingman, I am at Kermit's Transmission. They are really nice, even giving me a key to their outdoor work area bullpen where my rig is parked getting worked on so I can come and go after hours if I choose. They are a small shop but have excellent Google reviews and just watching them work through the day and hearing their interactions with customers gives me a better feeling about them. Kermit does good work and treats his customers well for what I can see.

I am totally embarrassed having to write this. I am a good mechanic and pretty anal myself. I can not figure out what I missed in that circuit, but I must have missed something. I did not check the solenoid for it's operation, so there is a chance it was plugged from the get go or failed shortly after installing it again, who knows. We will find out shortly what I missed. I will keep you all posted.