Rebuilding grandpa's ole 1979 georgieboy cruise air 30' class A

[kansascat]

This project was started in Late april, and on christmas day our rig was sitting on south padre island after visiting my brother in galveston and a few days in port aransas on the beach. Other then taking a while heading down there from here in south central kansas trying to figure out why it would occasionally starve on fuel when running on the rear main tank, but only when it had run long enough to get hot.. After swapping out the fuel selector valves with a generic one from orieleys in a wal mart parking lot, including a new dash switch and another wire going back to operate it since it rewuired reversing polarity tather than just power on or off to operate it...then replacing the auxilary elec fuel pump, then when getting ready to replace the already new mechanicle fuel pump and found the supply lines ruber hose was almost kinked where it turned 180 to atach to the fuel pump. When drawing from the rear tank it had to suck harder which would nearly collapse the new hose, and after running a while and things getting hot the hose would soften just enough to starve it out. After that, things went smoothly the rest of the approx 2000 miles we went over 2 weeks. Did i mention we only did one overnight local camp to test it out with just 120 miles travel...after its 15 year long slumber....plus i didnt have time to build a small light weight trailer for my jeep so we ended up pulling a 18' tandem axle steel decked car trailer with storage box full of tools and spare goodies just in case...plus my 51 willys jeep. I scaled it when we got home at the coop scales. Gross weight of entire rig, 18000 lbs. I checked fuel mileage coming back from south padre island 900 miles home running 60 to 65 mph and it made a average of 7.1 mpg. While i hope to improve on that some, its not to bad all things considered. As soon as warmer weather arrives ill start on the repaint. I owned a body shop for 15 years so yeah, ill be doing that myself too. We think we are going to modernise it with the stripes and go with silvers and charcoals and maybe some blues...but still thinking on it still. Here is a pic from port aransas between christmas and new years day. Let this saga continue as there are still quiet a few things we want to do to it yet...anyone here ever add a slide out to one of these older coaches? 

[kansascat]

one more

[joanfenn]

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7512.msg34048.html#msg34048

your winnie with slides.

[DaveVA78Chieftain]

Honestly, I think we are all at a loss for words.  Great!

[Rickf1985]

Eh... Yea, what Dave said. Amazing work. Obviously auto body is not the only thing you have done.

For want of an indoor place to work on mine!! Even something to work UNDER!!

[joev]

Really nice job on the rebuild can't wait to see it all painted up

[TerryH]

What you are doing and have done is very impressive.

[kansascat]

 Thanks everyone for the kind words. Hearing them from people who are familiar with RVs to the level you all are sorta makes it mean more.
I am trying to decide on a name for the rig. Its really come down to picking between two, both of which have special meaning to me as they were my grand fathers picks. His first rig, the 1950's vintage ford school bus that he converted into their first RV was affectionately named, and even painted on above the windshield in fancy script lettering, "Thistle Dew". Even tho i was probably only 5 or 6 years old i have always remembered it and still today can clearly picture that grey bus with its name in black up front and center. The Georgie Boy was his last RV, and when i brought it home the plastic name plate he had made in his work shop was still on the dash facing out the windshield, lettered to read "Tilton Hilton" Im really leaning towards naming her "Thistle Dew II"


I have to admit, when we first pulled out on the maiden voyage to south texas just before Christmas, we all were feeling a bit embarassed about the rig not having been repainted first. It wasnt bothering me as much as my wife and my 15 yr old son as i had the sentimental part of it in my heart and the pride of having built it thus far.....but when we got to galveston island  and pulled into the RV park there....Jamaica beech RV park....it was after dark. They assigned us to one of the rather few open spots they had and so we went and parked, fixed dinner and went to bed. The next morning when i opened the door and stepped out to find we were surrounded by nothing but beautiful new or nearly new rigs most of which were upper scale rigs my heart did sink a little. To say we stuck out like a sore thumb would probably be a understatement, and the rusty car trailer with its bent up fenders we were pulling only added insult to injury. Wilbur, our 51 willys jeep that i built from a pile of rusty junk 3 years ago was the only part that looked decent. I unloaded it and we headed off to explore the area and beaches and visit my brother that lives there. Then the neat part happened. When we pulled back in a couple hours before dinner time we were greeted by one of the neighbors...the one who had the literally brand new georgous 5th wheel with like 3 slide outs....and asked to come over and join a group get together christmas eve BBQ. Cool. When we went over there were 8 or 10 couples there, fellow campers around us, and the main topic turned to our rig......and they were all so excited to see a older rig like it in such good shape and out on the road traveling. Nothing but compliments. It was awesome. Now its not uncommon to get this reaction about my jeep, but i was really surprised to see so many fellow rvers show a appreciation for a ugly unpainted patch paneled mis colored Rv like ours....but they got it...they somehow understood that while it needed a paint job, it was now a solid as a rock cared for and loved RV. The next two weeks as we traveled place to place on down to south padre island, i could tell the rest of the family no longer felt as concerned regarding the lack of paint....and several more times while parked in camp grounds, or stopped to grab a burger or filling it with gas, the compliments continued to come in.
This coming summer the rig will be going out thru southern colorado on our groups annual jeeping trip in the mountains, and then on over to moab utah for a few days to jeep there as well before working our way back east. I plan to have it painted up and looking sharp before then, plus a few more improvements here and there in and on it...and a smaller trailer built just for the jeep. Im a bit concerned as to how well the rig will handle the mountain grades, any of you here have input on what i should expect or things to do to help it get up and down those 6% loooong grades better?

[Lefty]

Your work is outstanding. You should have no reason to be ashamed of it's current state, only pride. I would have no problem being parked next to any rig that has had the level of craftsmanship and hard work put into it that yours does. Your bodyshop skills are very impressive, it isn't easy to correctly reskin a rig.. especially from scratch. I'm sure the end result after painting will be just as impressive, and look forward to your updates.

As for your concerns about the hills, and suggestions.
I would make sure your cooling system is top notch. If you haven't already, get the radiator recored or replace it with a more efficient aluminum one.
Make sure your timing is right, and the vacuum advance is working.. that'll make a big difference in pulling power on those long hard pulls... If it's off, engine temp will rise fast and power will be way off.
Do you have an aftermarket trans cooler? What about an engine oil cooler?  I recommend having both, as big as you have the space in front of the radiator to fit.

After sitting that long, a new muffler isn't a bad idea either.. the internal baffles can corrode from sitting, and cause restriction if they break loose.
A good RV cam and an upgrade to an Edlebrock Performer carb. can add a good dose of mid range power... right where an RV runs at when pulling hills.

If you haven't already, replace every single rubber or plastic vacuum line that's on the engine. Buy bulk lengths of several sizes and do them one at a time if needed... You'd be amazed how much dry rotted hoses can affect horsepower and mpg's... those tiny invisible air leaks add up when there are a dozen hoses leaking... It will idle better, and be smoother at all throttle levels too.  Don't forget the rubber hose from the frame rail to the fuel pump... they are bad about cracking and causing the pump to suck air or lose prime. That can affect starting as well, especially if it sits a few days. Classic symptom is having to pump the gas pedal a few times to get one to crank after sitting.
Good luck and if you have other questions, feel free to ask.

[kansascat]

Lefty, ive done most of what you have suggested. Every rubber hose both fuel vacume and brake related are new. Everything on the engine serviced such as plugs wires cap and rotor. I checked the vacume advance diaphram for leaks and function and it appears to be ok. I cleaned and lubed the dist adv internals as well. I even replaced the temp sensor that controls the vacume to the advance pod. New fuel pump, belts rad hoses as well, and like i mentioned earlier i even removed the rest of the air injection stuff, and all the engine  / dash a/c stuff inc the condensor as it had to be restricting air flow thru the rad core. The rad looks good and no signs of leaks or corosion so have not done anything more than just a basic treatment with a cleaner and a good flushing and new coolant so far. It  has a engine oil cooler, and two aux tranny coolers one of which i put a elec fan unit on the other is right behind the grill plus the factory cooler in the radiator. So far ive never seen the temp gauge even up to the niddle of the gauge....i also put in a new t stat. They gave me a 180 degree when it had a 190 before...not sure if thats a good or bad thing tho. I also serviced the TH400 tranny with new filter and fluid which was a good thing as one of the valve body bolts had fallen out and was in the oil pan and the rest were barely morethan finger tight. Shifts great tho so hopefully its all ok.  The biggest question i have is regarding the timing. This 454 has the timing mark on the bottom so you can see it and get toit with timing light from beneath pretty easily. I did my research on it and i think it said to hook up to #8 cyl with the light when using that mark position... I found the mark on the dampener and high lighted it, but never could see it with the timing light anywhere near the indicator. I even tried it one #1 cyl and still no luck, so i timed it by ear and some trial and error running it where it has highest vacume at idle and dont ping or kick back when starting hot...but id like to know just where its at and why its not where it should be on the pointer.
It has dual exhaust, which is in need of complete replacement as i had to patch some holes before our trip. Im trying to decide if i want to go back with duals or duals with a X pipe or just go to a larger dia single with a Y pipe. The way it is now the exhaust note is not as smooth as id like. I think its just the pulse of being fully seperate exhaust, and ive read where the modern performance exhausts seem to opt for at least a X pipe to even out the pulses and improve exhaust scavenging and flow. I also want to improve the air intake system for better flow and to bring in air from behind the grill where it will be cooler and maybe even pick up a bit of ram induction on the highway.
Anyone have experience or input on cams and intake manifolds? This one having a egr setup still concerns me, and im thinking being a 79 it probably has a less than great cam profile for the emissions they were trying to figure out still, I rebuilt the quadrajet, and it seems to run well, and i dont know why so many folks dont seem to like them. They might not be as simple a carb or holleys and eldebrocks, but when working right are they really not as good on performance or economy? Our trip to SPI we were grossing 18k with the trailer and jeep. I ran 65 to 70 on the highwat parts going down and 60 to 65 coming back and it was making 6 to just a bit over 7 mpg. 60 mph was turning right at 3000 rpm and it felt real comfortable from 60 to 65. 4:56 rear gears and i upgraded it from the old 8R19.5 tires to the new 255/85.19.5 i thinkthey are. I know they are a smaller diameter tire and a bit wider tread. Everyone said it was a good upgrade due to better handling and easier to find if needed. It put the speedometer off 5mph at 60. It shows 65 but gps confirms its actual is 60 now. I figured using it in the mountains it would only help plus we pull trailers with it.
It runs so well and with just 50k on it now and gas prices low im not in a hurry to swap, but eventually i can see putting in a 5.9 cummins. I run them in my trucks and love them and figure i can increase mileage 50% with one but right now its just not feasible to do.

[Rickf1985]

Finally, someone asking about manifolds and cams! I have talked about them and building mileage mountain pulling motors in the past but it usually turned into flame wars and I got in trouble. I am hitting the sack right now, have an early MRI in the morning but I will be back with what has worked for me tomorrow.

[kansascat]

looked through all pics in this thread - i'm impressed. about a year i think to build camper, but haven't much time and place.
Bumped to this forum - sure that now my passion will be more wild to make a winnie.

Davis, not having a place inside to do this would have made it nearly impossible. I cant imagine the additional work and time it would have taken trying to keep things tarped up and protected from rain while the coack was torn apart and open. For me, a lot of the time i had avail to work on it was when the weather was not good as being in the excavation business means not working when its raining or nasty outside.  I think if i had not had a shop big enough for it my next option would have been to build a temp one. Set some uprights into the ground and some basic 2x4 framing and a good silver tarp screwed onto it to enclose it.
Other than that, rebuilding a rv is really just a matter of commiting to the time and labor. It wasbuilt by someone the first time so it can be rebuilt. Just a matter of figuring out how it was built the first time, and reversing it till the problem areas are removed, then put it bacl together again, and hopefully improving on the original design defects along the way. After having done my GB i can safely say,  the manufacturers really have no concern what so ever about quality, or durability. I was completely blown away by the poor workmanship and design of it, and it is my understanding that GB was considered to be in the upper mid class or rv mfgrs.  Things like needing a 8' long piece of lumber in the framework of a wall but instead they would staple,,,yes staple, no screws, no glues, 2 or 3 short pieces together to make the 8' piece they needed. There was seams overlaped the wrong direction to shed water so the cheap greay mastic was the only thing keeping water from entering. The thing that really had caused most of the water damage on my rig was the simple fact that when the put the roof onto the sides....each side and the roof were made ahead of time and assembled onto the floor / chassis then the roof was lower onto it and attached....well when they attached the roof, they ran long screws thru the roof along the sides down into the top board of the walls. The problem is the yahoo working the assembly line ran several of the screws to far in and pulled the heads thru the roofs aluminum skin. Then they fold the roof skin over the sides and put the aluminum corner trim on that covers the screws on top and thru the sides and screwed in on with mastic under it and put the cheap vinle trim strip in it that covers the screws that hold it on. Soooo, everything along this most vital connection depends on that thin layer of cheap poor quality grey elephant dung sealant under that thin aluminum corner trim. Add to that the screws on the top surface that they pulled the heads thru the skin and it was guaranteed to fail....which it did as soon as that mastic dried up from a few years time in the elements. Talk about built in obsolescence.
Anyway, sorry about the ramble but i think anyone getting ready to tear into a project like this, even on a smaller scale should know things to be looking for and what they are getting into. There is nothing overly complicated about it, but it does take time and labor and some basic skills to do. Also, id say make sure you price out the materials before tearing into one as some of them are pretty expensive. My GB is / was all bonded wall construction. All coach sides and roof are a word framework made of 1 1/2' X 2 lumber for the most part with high density blue poly insulation filling all...well most of the spaces. To that the glued with contact adhesive the inside wood paneling and on the outside a 1/8' luan wood.....mahogany paneling material...and then on that they glued the outside aluminum skin. It makes for a surprisingly strong but light weight wall. It would have been much stronger tho had they used lumber of a better quality and not stapled short pieces together to make longer ones. My point is materials are not cheap. The adhesive glue i used ended up costing about $300 for my project. The one piece .030 aluminum skin that i used to do the rear part of the roof and clear down the back in one piece..8 1/2' X 15'  i think it was cost me a road trip of 5 hours total drive time plus right at $500 for the material. The grey aluminum panels i lucked into at a local aircraft surplus outlet for $50 each. they were 4x8 and already primed and painted the charcoal grey color. I used about 8 or 9 of them on mine. Then there was the interior paneling and luan for the ceiling, lots of screws and several tubes of high grade construction adhesive as i glued all wood joints and screwed them together also versus just staples. I added stapling around the edges of the skins tho to insured no future lifting of edges and to hold them tighter while adhesives was setting up. So do your research on costs if your working on a strict budget as all this stuff adds up. We put all new radial tires on it plus a bunch more going thru drivetrain stuff as needed. We still have paint expenses and a new water heater and fridge and grey tank valves, rear shocks, exhaust system, recovering the cousions...the list goes on.
On my rig, i wouldnt have probably rebuilt it as bad as it was had it not been so special a rig to me having been my grand parents retirement dream rig. Its a special rv to me, and i wanted to build it to last so someday i can pass it on to my son...who helped me on the rebuild so it will have special value to him once i am gone. Now we will use it to build even more special memories together as we use it for our father and son jeeping adventures and family camp outs and winter vacation trips.

[legomybago]

On your timing, #5 is the cylinder you use in order to see the timing mark tab. Sounds like you have it figured out though!!
Inspiring RV story, I have similar memories with the Grandparents and having one of there old RV's. Wish I still had it. DONT SELL THAT RIG, YOU WILL REGRET IT.
Keep posting for us

[Rickf1985]

I didn't forget you, it was a Veeeery long day of medical tests then a daughter with a load of grand kids broken down I had to rescue.  D:oH! Was NOT in the mood for that! I am just now getting home and I am going to bed!

[kansascat]

I didn't forget you, it was a Veeeery long day of medical tests then a daughter with a load of grand kids broken down I had to rescue.  D:oH! Was NOT in the mood for that! I am just now getting home and I am going to bed!

Rick, no problems man. Since im new here i have no idea what medical issues your having to deal with, nut if it requires  MRI's you have my condolences as the thought of one of those sends my anxiety thru the roof. I cant do restraint situations so hospitals scare the heck out of me.


legomybago, thanks for the info on the timing and thanks for the words of wisdom. I have NO plans to ever sell this rig It truly is part of this family now. Im kinda funny in how much our family's heirlooms mean to me. It occurred to me while we were on its maiden voyage trip over christmas holidays, that the entire rig we were traveling with was sorta unique in its ties to my family. Get this now, i was driving the motor home that my grandfather bought and used and had made his own personal touches on and to., filled with the dishes and nick knacks that my grandmother had and used in it. Rebuilt by me and my son and wife, pulling a trailer that a long time friend gave me after loosing everything they had to a F5 tornado including the trailer which we found a block away in the top of a huge cottonwood tree wrapped up with overhead electric utility lines and pretty badly damaged. This trailer was rebuilt by my now also passed father and myself in the early 90's. On the trailer I attached the utility job box my recently passed cousin whom worked with me had given me a few years ago, and behind that we were hauling wilbur, our 51 willys cj3A jeep. I built it out of parts as our first father and son build in our new shop, and in it i used the motor tranny and transfer case from a old jeep my dad and i bought together when i was just out of high school. The whole rig was tied to my families history.
No sir, this one is not for sale. 

[Rickf1985]

Wow! Now that is history! I almost don't want to give any kind of motor advice since I am an outsider!! W% It sounds like you are already on your way to knowing what you need in the way of power. You are looking for low end torque. Horsepower really means nothing here, you need torque. Now, horsepower and torque work hand in hand so you need to produce more horsepower to get more torque but the big thing is where the torque band is produced. I am going to assume you are running 4:56 gears which is the norm for these and I see you have 19.5 tires and are running 3,000 RPM. One note on the wider tires while I am thinking about it, Make SURE they do not touch on the duals! I used to build engines from scratch with parts from many companies based in dyno results but I have come to use only Edelbrock in the last few years I was building since they spent many millions of dollars to do all of the R+D work and produce their power packages which work very well. All of the parts are made to work together to achieve the  best power in the range you are looking for and for the application you want. The Performer series is fantastic in this respect since it gave great power from idle to 5500. I find they tend to drop off at about 4500 with heavy vehicles but you are not running that hard. That is with a Performer plus cam, a Performer manifold, a set of good quality headers with the siamesed exhaust you already mentioned. Also, a single 3" exhaust will work just as well. The carb would be a #1413 Performer 800 CFM square bore carb to match the Performer manifold.
This combination would give you a substantial boost in Horsepower and especially, low end torque. Now, here is the kicker, I have built many of these motors for people and told them that they will see better mileage with them IF, and only if, they keep their foot out of the gas pedal. With extra power comes extra feeling of authority and "I can pass that" feeling. Well, there goes the gas mileage. If you drive easy and use the torque and not the horsepower you will see better mileage but if launch like a dragster and pass everything you can you will also be stopping at every gas station! AND tranny shop in short order.

Now this all costs money, I always say that you have to do the math. If you are taking one trip a year for 600 miles then doing this is not worth it but if you drive thousands of miles a year it will pay for itself in one year.

[kansascat]

 Rick, what are your thoughts on doing a upgrade like you described but not the headers? I really have a hard time getting excited about changing over to headers especially on the P30 RV application. It seems like the extra heat that would be emitted from them would be a problem as there is not much clearance between the manifolds and the dog house / floor and the brilliant engineers at GB felt the need to run the main wiring bundle going back to the coach right thru that area also. I know from pickups ive had in the past that header heat was always a problem with burning plug wires and overheated starters etc, and the RV is much tighter than the trucks were. I know there is some power to be gained from headers when used in conjunction with the other upgrades, my question is would staying with the stock 454 manifolds kill more than just some of the performance that is to be had with the cam and intake upgrades? My stock manifolds are not cracked and have no leaks where they mount to the heads.

[kansascat]

 As for how much use it will get, we will probably be putting on about 4000 a year or in that range for the next few years, and eventually that will go up as we start trying to work into retirement as my wife is from Canada so we have family up there that we want to start seeing more often plus my son and i want to do some jeep trips in further away locations including in alaska. Eventually i can see switching from the 454 over to a 5.9 12 valve cummins but while gas is affordable and the chevy is running well ill stick with it.
The new metric lower profile tires i went with do have sufficient clearance of sidewall rub on the duals and the smaller OD should help in the mountains. Ill probably change out the TH400 tranny sooner than the 454 as i really think a O.D. tranny would be helpful for better mileage on the flatter runs, so im going to look into swapping to something like a 4L80E in the near future or a auxiliary O.D. unit to go behind the TH400.

[Rickf1985]

The 4L80E would require a stand alone computer, there are companies that have them out there and that would be a good choice. The overdrive unit would also be a good choice because it could be changed to another vehicle. I have seen a couple 5.9 conversions on here and the mileage difference was not much at all. Remember that torque thing? The torque difference between a 5.9 and a built 454 is about the same. The 24 valve would be a better choice but still you are in the same range. You would have to change out the gears if you went that route.

[sasktrini]

Amazing rebuild!  I've been working on mine outdoors for the last couple years… got frostbite wiring new golf cart batteries in the dark last Saturday.  If you find a decent rig that isn't too bad, you can do it.  Mine was almost completely delaminated, and I had to re-cement all the insulation to the skin, and glued new interior panels after.  Complete gut down to the floor.  Plan to hit the road this year.  This rebuild puts mine to shame though.

[kansascat]

Amazing rebuild!  I've been working on mine outdoors for the last couple years… got frostbite wiring new golf cart batteries in the dark last Saturday.  If you find a decent rig that isn't too bad, you can do it.  Mine was almost completely delaminated, and I had to re-cement all the insulation to the skin, and glued new interior panels after.  Complete gut down to the floor.  Plan to hit the road this year.  This rebuild puts mine to shame though.

Big rebuilds like mine are really nothing but a whole bunch of smaller ones put together back to back. 

[kansascat]

Thought id share a few more pics of some of the various things i did as part of the rebuild. To cold outside to be doing anything constructive anyways.  LOL


The pics should show the outside shower unit i installed while framing in the rear section. This should be handy after a day out jeeping and getting muddy. Then a pic showing the generator enclosure under the rear dinette /bed that i insulated with 1 1/2 Styrofoam. It had nothing from the factory. Then the last two pics are showing the water heater repairs. I discovered the metal fame was broken from fatigue where it screws to the side wall of the coach. It turns out that was the ony thing holding it in / up. The didnt put anything underneath it to support it so it was litterally hanging from the front mounts bouncing up and down inside till it broke.  I added plywood beneath it for support, no more wiggle now.

[JerryP]

Wow, nice work, dedication, and diligence.

[kansascat]

More pics of the ole girls ailments that we dealt with.

[kansascat]

continued.