No brakes!

FastGlassman69 · December 22, 2014, 08:48 PM

Bought our 1988 Winne a few weeks ago. Went through about 2 weeks as someone titled it as a 1998 Chevy. Spent 3 days cleaning years of crap off the outside and it looked pretty good, so since we are way overdue for a vacation, I figured letme fix whatever needed fixing to make it safe and go as inside everything worked. Took it to my friends shop to check it out after spending $848 on a new set of tires, saw it had new front brakes. tried to drive it up on blocks to get under it easier to change the oils and stuff, well when I tried to stop it on the blocks I lost all the brakes and it flew out of his driveway into the street. Scared the crap out of me and my other half when I told her, as she drove it around to get the tires put on , consequentially she said she won't drive it till I tell her I made it safe!

Well I found out why it did this, some clown the recent PO or his"mechanic" that put a new inspection on it in July of this year found a rotted line from the master to the proportioning valve and rather then taking out the crossmember to change it, only 6 bolts. They cut the line and ran a new line to the rear bulkhead fitting where the rear flexline is, then changed the steel line to the left rear wheel, leaving the very crusty one to the right rear wheel which then broke at the same time the line from the proportioning valve to the right front wheel blew. Don't know who the "Mechanic" is who did this but I would be pleased to put my foot where the sun doesn't shine with him, I wish I didn't already scrape the old inspection ticket off the windshield, I'm no "Rat" but I would report him to DMV if he is putting stickers on deathtraps!

The line they ran to the rear bulkhead fitting was way too long sothey wound it in three coils and left it floating loose above the rear end housing directly from the master cylinder! That explains why my other half felt the brakes were to jerky, brand new calipers and pads on the front , god knows what is behind the rear drums and no propotioning to the rear, yeah real safe. Well at least I found it , so probably for less than a $100 and some sweat and swearing I will have all new brake lines, hooked up right. Thanks for having me and letting me rant, will take some pics tommorrow. Bob

tiinytina · December 23, 2014, 10:20 AM

ah yet more PO tales!!!! most p30's have disc front and back.. my 87 does... glad you are getting her up to speed on all fronts and can stop once you do!
Tina

Rickf1985 · December 23, 2014, 10:37 AM

Just so you know, the loops in the line will not cause "jerky feeling" in the brakes. It is not the right way to do it but hyraulics do not work that way. Just because the line is moving does not mean you will feel it in the pedal. Look for out of round drums if you have drums in the rear or out of round heat damaged rotors in the front. Either of these problems will give a pulsating to the brakes OR if rear drums you could have a leaking wheel cylinder which would cause grabbing of the brakes. I don't really know what her description of "jerky" is without driving it myself. Since you cannot drive it be sure to look for those things. I would replace the rear brakes and wheel cylinders no matter what, you don't know the history and you have seen what happens there. I always replace all brakes and hardware on an older used vehicle, cheap insurance.

FastGlassman69 · December 23, 2014, 08:31 PM

Yeah Rick ,I know the loops could be a hundred miles long and still work, just the bouncing up and down hitting that rear end on every bump it would have been rubbed thru soon! Bogus! Might be ok to get it home if you didn't have access to a double flare tool, but to go thru a inspection, no! Also not going thru the proportioning valve might have made it feel weird to her, I just Thank God it didn't happen about an hour earlier as she was driving it back from the tire shop down a busy main street with shoppers not knowing where they wanted to go, she would have taken several out i'm sure! Got it all done today with all new shiny lines, we'll see, Thanxs, Bob

FastGlassman69 · December 23, 2014, 08:42 PM

Thanx Tina, it was a bear but changed all the steel lines and it stops ! Tommorrow is new mufflers and hangers, clean carb and run a new line to the genny. And relocate the power steering resevoir forward a foot and 4" higher for access ( I can just reach it now in a shirt, fingertips only with a coat on), terrible engineering and where they stuck it they cut the hole for the p/s hose with a torch, all ragged and the p/s fill line is rubbed thru sitting right on that sharp edge. I love it and will reengineer some of the things they did at the factory for access and servicibility, yes will take pics! Thanx for having us here, Bob

ps: I Wish I had discs front and back, will be looking into getting a rear with them when I find a l60 6 speed transmission someday! W%

Rickf1985 · December 24, 2014, 10:13 AM

If you go with discs in the back you will be doing the brakes all over again! The rear lines are different from the center out to the calipers, the proportioning valve is different and the master cylinder is different. I am not so sure the disc brakes are any better, just easier to work on. One thing is for sure and that is if you lose power then drums will stop you where discs will need two men and a Boy scout to push the pedal hard enough. Disc brakes need substantially more pressure to achieve the same amount of braking force, hence the larger piston area in the caliper, with power brakes nobody notices this but how many people remember when disc brakes first came out on vehicles? Chevy pickups used them in the front in the late 60's and they were manual brakes. Even had a neat little round metal disc emblem in the pedal pad. Back when men drove pick ups. :)rotflmao Power disc brakes came in real fast after that. Disc brakes do have the advantage of drying off quickly when they get wet.

FastGlassman69 · December 24, 2014, 04:46 PM

I Know about doing it over , I was just dreaming of finding a good rear that I could rebuild with disc brakes and being able to put lower gears in it to make use of the double overdrive in the L80e or L90e. Thanx, Bob

FastGlassman69 · May 24, 2015, 10:48 AM

Our MH has the hydro-boost system also, and we had quite a scare as both front and back brake lines blew out at the same time causing it to take off out into the street in reverse.
D:oH!

Check your brake lines and all for leaks after checking the level of brake fluid in the master cylinder, (tough to get to over the left front wheel) if it is low or empty you definately have a leak. Look where the master cylinder bolts to the hydroboost as the seal between them may have blown out. Check power steering fluid as that is what runs the hydroboost, check the belts. If you have no brake pedal at all the problem is in the master cylinder, lines or wheel cylinders/calipers. Even without the hydroboost you should be able to pump some brake pressure up . Bobby i??

Rickf1985 · May 24, 2015, 11:02 AM

Just being low does not always mean a leak! It could also be a sigh of worn shoes and pads, especially with disc brakes all around. If the fluid is low check for leaks but before condemning the master cylinder check the condition of the shoes and or pads.

FastGlassman69 · May 24, 2015, 08:47 PM

Yes Rick if it is low could be worn pads or shoes or misadjusted rear brakes! But considering the po's comments that he had to move it I figured it's been sitting a while, doesn't sound like he drives it much. And after my experience of losing all brakes I was just trying to get him to check everything. He didn't sound like he has done much mechanicing! Everyone can learn with a little guidance, but with an empty p/s and no mention of noise or hard steering me thinks this mh has sat in one place too long with little or no PM! Bobby W%

Rickf1985 · May 24, 2015, 09:00 PM

I must be missing something here? I did not see any posts on this thread about empty power steering. I do admit that Exoticar's post seems out of place like there was more to it or he was alluding to another earlier post that is not here? If so then sorry, I was giving advice on what I saw.
Actually I did not see any mention of anyone having to move anything on this thread? I am really confused.
Rick

FastGlassman69 · May 25, 2015, 08:46 AM

I don't know what happened either Rick? Mark consolidated the no brakes thread I wrote back in December with a new guys problem with his MH. He had no hydroboost on his rig and had to move it and didn't even know where the master was and he filled his empty P/S reservoir with brake fluid. You commented on how the brake fluid would kill the seals in the P/S?

? Just don't know what happened or where that thread went? i??

Rickf1985 · May 25, 2015, 09:29 AM

I thought the power steering reference sounded familiar.

DaveVA78Chieftain · May 26, 2015, 07:19 PM

There is a No Brakes thread on the chevy board (this one with the rotted brake lines) and a No Brakes thread on the Dodge board (the P/S opp's one).

Both are hydroboost based systems.

Dave

boogie_man · May 29, 2015, 02:15 PM

I just went thru this on our 86 Chieftain 31. It had a power steering leak as I went to drive it a few miles I noticed the brakes were going down further than normal but if you pumped them it would stop ok but not as firm as I liked. The brake light on the dash was starting to come on as well so I was thinking to top of p/s fluid to get more braking until I went thru the system. When we changed all the power steering lines, we checked the brake master cylinder while we had the left wheel and splash shield off only to find the reservoir was empty. Ran down to O'Reilly's and picked up a new one for under 80 bucks to replace the original unit. Topped off brake and power steering and blend them all and it's night and day now and feel better for our upcoming long trip.