46RH (A518) Conversion project

Mlw · February 04, 2023, 11:05 AM

yeah well, maybe you really are driving too fast. Rv's are driving bricks after all.

In America you are experiencing fuelprices like they were in Europe back then, So maybe next thread will change you mind

https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=16581.msg101597#msg101597

Just as a tip of course, but with fuelprices as they are nowadays,,,,,

Sasquatch · February 01, 2023, 12:35 PM

It has been almost 3 years now and I have successfully been back and forth from Boise to Arizona a few times and can close down this thread with results.

Transmission is working perfectly. I do have to manually switch in and out of OD with a small button on the turn signal stalk. I do not even think about it now, it is all muscle memory. But, in mountains I pay attention to the rpm drop and my vacuum gauge to switch out of OD before I really start loading it on hills. The OD section of these transmissions are not the strongest.

Transmission is staying nice and cool as long as I do not try to pull too steep of a hill in OD. Again, I just pay attention to it. I have 2 massive transmission coolers on the front of the radiator.

Speaking of temps, I have the temp probe in the hot side supply line at the spin on filter before the coolers. After a ton of research I am finding that the proper place to have it is in the sump. So that is a project I will do this year.

Driving: At 65 it lowers the cruise RPMs from 3100 to 2200. Much quieter and pleasant to drive. But, I do not think the stock 440 in my heavy Executive would have had enough power to really pull those lower rpms. Mine has every mod possible without rebuilding the motor (cam, intake, ignition, fuel injection, headers, exhaust, etc., etc.)

Fuel economy: Here is the sucky part. No real change over the long haul. I am usually carrying some weight on a trailer (SXS + Motorcycle), a tow vehicle (5000#), etc., plus, the Executive is much heavier than the Winnebagos. My 26' is about 16k ready to run. On legs of the trip where the stars align right I can see 8.5mpg (I pretty constantly run 65mph on cruise control). In the mountains I only switch to OD going down hills unless I need engine braking, so the MPG is about the same as before. At the end of the day I am still averaging about 6.5 mpg. But, and it is a big BUT, it is much more pleasant to drive and I have a ton more power than when it was all stock 30 years ago. So that is a win.

Would I do it again today? No. In fact, I have so much money in my coach from the full interior remodel, to all the suspension, engine and transmission mods I could have EASILY purchased a used, early 2000s diesel pusher and had a better coach all the way around. I am planning on getting a used pusher to celebrate my graduation from college next year. I am watching pricing and for the price of a new pickup you can get one heck of a high end diesel from the early 2000s that is pre-emissions, electronic diesel with over 400 hp. That way I can tow my F250 diesel pickup with the SxS in a "Toy up" bed rack and not have to drive the SxS from the camp ground all while driving faster and get the same fuel mileage. My father has a 2004 Monaco Executive, 43' with tag axles, 500 HP Cummins ISX and Allison transmission and he gets 6.5 mpg running 75+ mph. And they drive sooooo nice. (We drag raced though, and my old Exec beat his up to 65. Not by much, but it did pull him.) His was over half a million dollars when he bought it new and if he sold it today it would probably be in the 80-90k range. Quite a bargain for what it is.

Oz · July 20, 2020, 12:23 PM

Thanks for the update!

Sasquatch · July 19, 2020, 11:21 PM

I ended up building a bracket to bolt the transmission to the moved crossmember. It was not hard to do. Pretty simple, actually. My only issue remaining is a proper parking brake. I plan on buying one that bolts on to the differential flange with a cable operated caliper. I will build a custom cable to attach to the factory cable. But this will probably be a project for next year. With Covid, school and work, I have not even used the coach this year.

Froggy1936 · May 27, 2019, 08:14 PM

The amount you mention is pretty much normal , It,s not a hospital surgery room , There will be dirt and metal . Everytime you look . I think it,s time to forget about it and enjoy ! Best Wishes on a trouble free ride for years

to come ! Frank

Sasquatch · May 27, 2019, 11:35 AM

The only concern I still have is that when I drained the pan, there was a small amount of debris in it (had about 1200 miles on it since the last rebuild). Some of the black sludge stuff and a few aluminum flakes. I am trying hard to convince myself that this is just leftovers from the multiple transmission burn downs that hid in various parts of the transmission (like the Torque Converter) and did not get fully cleaned out. The transmission had completely ate itself 4-5 times for pete's sake. I would also like to believe that there will be some "wear in" of all the new clutch plates as well. The fluid was bright red and clear, and still smelled new though. Time will tell. Logic dictates that with the cool running temps of the transmission now that there is very little internal friction, so there should be no problems.

Berlin-Tioga · May 26, 2019, 02:00 PM

Fingers crossed!

Rickf1985 · May 26, 2019, 09:51 AM

Here's hoping!

Sasquatch · May 26, 2019, 01:40 AM

She is finally back together, driving fine, and keeping all her fluids to herself. She is fine on the test drive.

Sasquatch · May 21, 2019, 07:48 PM

The problem was that there was a collision between the new bellhousing and a bit of the existing case that I had not shaved down enough. Some mill work cured that. Did some test fits with some putty on the contact points and got it to mate properly. Added some new o-rings, sealant, teflon washers and got it bolted back up. Just got the transmission mated to the engine and some bolts started. Taking a break before diving back under the coach to get it all bolted up.

Here is a comparison shot of the new high torque mini starter vs. the boat anchor OEM one.

Back to the salt mines. I am getting too old for this crap.

Froggy1936 · May 21, 2019, 12:40 PM

Pictures of the problem would help us understand the situation better, Good Luck, with we hope final repair , Yes We admire anyone who has the guts to reengineer anything To get the results they want ,Even though there is a lot of redo,s for fitment It is extremely satisfying when you succeed ! Frank

tmsnyder · May 21, 2019, 08:16 AM

You have a lot of admirers on here Sasquatch! I'm pretty amazed by the conversion personally.

Sasquatch · May 21, 2019, 12:42 AM

I did not go with the 47RH because I felt that with the gearing a lockup TC would drop the engine speed too far. Second was the additional circuitry to make OD and Lockup work.

Using the pump bolts is just fine. They have longer bolts and O-rings to seal them. Many drag racers with tons more power have been using these bellhousings for years.

I found my problem. I missed one small area getting the transmission case ground down enough holding the bellhousing off the pump just enough to leak like a sieve.

So I will do some more clean up tomorrow, install new o-rings and try again.

Froggy1936 · May 20, 2019, 06:15 PM

Yep really hate redoing anything, I had that with the slow fluid leak right after overhaul and installation with mine , And also not cheap. I questioned you on the mounting of the new bell housing , Looking at things . Using the Frt pump bolts seemed suspect ? Did you Pull the pump and renew the O Ring ? Or just install the bell housing ? Do they use the original bolts Or are the longer ? How about some picture,s this time so we can get a better idea of what you are doing . We want to offer any expertise we have so you do not have to do it a third time Frank

Rickf1985 · May 20, 2019, 04:05 PM

So refresh my memory, why didn't you go with a 47RH? I am thinking incompatible bolt pattern? I can't believe that Advance or Novak doesn't have an adapter plate for that setup since it is a really strong overdrive tranny. I would be wary of an adapter that bolts to the pump bolts. Seems like that is kind of sketchy. The pump bolts are only designed to hold the pump in with no rotational force on them to speak of and the bell housing has massive rotational torque on it. I guess if they race them it is a proven design......................... I don't know though.

LJ-TJ · May 20, 2019, 12:01 PM

I'm sure many of us will muse over your dilemna only because "Ben there,Done that,Got the T-shirt." We really do feel your pane. Personally I think you've done it right because your doing it yourself. Trust me chances are you'd probably worse off if you went to a Professional.(Rick and Dave are the exception. )Plus this way you'll now the jobs been done right.

Sasquatch · May 20, 2019, 10:50 AM

I need some encouragement. Really a bit depressed right now. I got it all together last night and fired up. I thought all was well. In fact, my thought that somehow my original welded bellhousing was off a bit I think was confirmed. No matter how well the transmission worked, the pump made a bit of noise, just like Ford power steering whine. Some of you will know what I am talking about. With the new bellhousing it was silent, so somehow my weld job was a bit off.

So, I am adding fluid, letting it run in N, cycling it through gears, feeling the TC load. All was well until I crawled under the coach to take a look. Drip, drip, drip.... The tranny was puking fluid from the lower bellhousing bolts. (where the bellhousing bolts up to the front pump). My heart sank. It has to come all the way out again to address this leak.

I did some searching on the web and found this sort of leak was common with the JW bellhousings and read about some of the solutions people came up with to get it sealed.

But anyway, it needs to come out again. My back is killing me and I just want to be done with this project. I still believe this is a worthwhile upgrade to the coach, but if I were to do it all over again I would have spent some more money up front and bought a rebuilt/upgraded transmission from a professional and did the JW bellhousing swap right away. Even if I dealt with a leak or two it would have in no way compared to the number of times I have had this transmission out trying to do things on the cheap. Not only that, I could have bought a very high performance transmission from one of the big builders who build these things to hang on to modified diesels, and still been money and headache ahead. Do it right the first time or do it again. Or in my case, do it right the first time or do it again, and again, and again, and again......

Sorry guys, I am rambling, but I needed to vent. I am close. I think it is all there, all done, just need to sort out the bellhousing seal issue. I think I know how I am going to do it.

Regarding the starter, yes, I have the newer mini starter. With the long tube headers I would not be able to replace the original starter without pulling the exhaust. So I went with the mini. Each time I do a mod, I try to think through having to repair it on the road and make things as easy as I can. That is the reason I went to the complete fuel delivery system from mid 90's F150 Fords for my fuel injection system. Everyone has parts for it, and it was designed to work exactly how I have it installed, so it should never be a problem as those F150's actually have pretty robust fuel pumps (unlike the GM in tank pumps).

Ok, I am off to work. Need to get some customer's bikes done then I will dive back into pulling the tranny this afternoon. I will update you all later.

Rickf1985 · May 19, 2019, 04:54 PM

And amp draw! The newer starters have it all over the old dinosaurs! Unless you just can't drag yourself away from that old Chrysler starter gear whine!

Froggy1936 · May 19, 2019, 02:31 PM

Do you have one of the new style Mini Starters ? With the permanent magnets . Or are you trying to jam an old style monster in there ? There is a major difference in size and weight ! Frank

Rickf1985 · May 19, 2019, 08:03 AM

As you should well know, anything custom will always need customizing to work.

Sasquatch · May 18, 2019, 10:56 PM

I am so ready to be done. Everything has fought me the entire way. The B&M flexplate I bought that said it fit "cast crank" torque converters, didnt. It did not have a relief to clear the TC balancing weight. I had to take it back apart and pull the flex plate and machine it to fit. That meant that I had to build a jig to bolt it into my balancing fixture so I could balance the flex plate again.

Ok, so finally got the transmission bolted up and the TC torqued. Installed the crossmember and started in on the starter. Nope. I do not know if it is miss-casted or what, but the starter flange does not fit in the hole. Made a template and stuck that up there so I could see what it was hitting on (headers are in the way) and there is one small spot where I have to grind it out a bit.

I really wanted to have it mobile today, but that is not happening. Oh well, back under there with a dremel to massage the starter hole.

Sasquatch · May 17, 2019, 11:38 AM

New torque converter arrived. Precision of New Hampton built it for me in one day. That is fantastic. It is their RV series of torque converter. 11" vs my original 12" which would not fit in the JW performance Ultrabell. The new TC has a 1500 stall which is 400 lower than stock. Plus it has a bunch of revisions to the inside that I will probably never notice while driving it. But for $190, I can not complain. I spent some time with their tech on the phone prior to ordering and he really took the time to discuss options and his advice for my application. Seemed really knowledgeable about RV's.

ClydesdaleKevin · May 15, 2019, 09:57 PM

Quote from: Elandan2 on May 15, 2019, 06:59 PM
Ouch!! I'm guessing your future as a hand model is finished.

Hey Rick Ellerbeck! Tell me more about your battery watering system that you sell on your website. I have two Trojan T-105 batteries, but pulling the caps with all the wires going over them is a pain. What would I need to have an easy fill system? Tell me more about the Aqua-Pro Battery Watering System you sell.

Thanks!

Kev

Elandan2 · May 15, 2019, 06:59 PM

Ouch!! I'm guessing your future as a hand model is finished.

Berlin-Tioga · May 15, 2019, 09:56 AM

OT
I bought one of those tiny BOSCH 10.8V angle grinders not to long ago.
The first time I used it, I had the gnarly multi-cut wheel on it.
Because it is so small you naturally use it on handed.
After the first cut I tried to shut it off an while reaching for the switch with the thumb I got my middle finger around and in the blade.
Always funny to have that finger wrapped and thereby kinda exposed

That's half a year ago an the tip is still a little numb.

Good luck for your you healing!!