Classic Winnebagos & Vintage RVs

Topic Boards => Project Blogs => Topic started by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 08:52 PM

Title: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 08:52 PM
We recently inherited a 88  Sportscoach Cross Country on a 87 P30 chassis.  It just recently got in our name and now ready to get it road worthy.  My in laws purchased from the original owner 7-8 years ago and only used it once.  They offered to sell it to my wife and I, but after taking a look at the work necessary to get it useable, I declined.  They decided to give it to us  W%   . 

Here is a working list of mechanical items I feel need looked at on it.  Feel free to add suggestions.

Check out cooling system, radiator, belts, hoses, water pump.
Carburetor rebuild - already done by Sean Murphy Induction
New shocks
Front air bags won't hold air
Front wheel bearings
Brakes
Modify ignition timing, tune up
Leaky manifolds
Rear end lube
Tranny service, add temperature gauge
Fuel system, new mech. pump, drop tank to check elect., replace rubber lines, filters

Here is where it starts  :'(

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0152_zps5ad72826.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0152_zps5ad72826.jpg.html)

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on March 17, 2014, 09:09 PM
That list is an excellent start.  Looks like you bee doing some reading!   :)ThmbUp
Add
chassis battery
Lights, turn signals, etc.

Now that is the chassis list.

Where is the coach list?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 09:10 PM
This weekend got started pulling the radiator.  I don't know how much RV mechanics make, but it probably isn't enough  $@!#@!

After reading the forums, was able to get the condensor and fans up out of the way enough to get to the radiator.  Took out the grill for more space. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0153_zps0eb19bdc.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0153_zps0eb19bdc.jpg.html)

Hard to tell, but the radiator is coming out the front with the condensor swung up.  Notice the crud in the radiator fins.  Took about 3hrs to get to this point.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0158_zpseab7b82c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0158_zpseab7b82c.jpg.html)

Here is a view after removal.  Could not get the shroud out before taking out the clutch fan.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0159_zps9c1485af.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0159_zps9c1485af.jpg.html)

Finally!! The engine.  A couple of the belts are originals!

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0160_zps20d662b9.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0160_zps20d662b9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 09:13 PM
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on March 17, 2014, 09:09 PM
That list is an excellent start.  Looks like you bee doing some reading!   :)ThmbUp
Add
chassis battery
Lights, turn signals, etc.

Now that is the chassis list.

Where is the coach list?

Dave, I may start a coach section later after its running.  My wife and I agreed to get it on the road and hopefully use it over the summer before starting any interior repairs.  She is already talking hard wood floors, curtains, etc.  I did get on the roof and put some eternabond down. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 09:15 PM
Took the radiator in to one of the few shops left in the area.  They knew exactly what it came out of.  They also commented on how good of shape the radiator appeared to be in.  I asked and it is a 4 core.  Should be ready in a few days, I'll update the cost.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on March 17, 2014, 09:24 PM
Hey cncsparky, I'm in the same boat as you man. A great deal and a lot of work and research. I have a 1984 p30 and the only tips I can give you is to clean electrical connections and spray penetrating oil on anything you might be working on in advance. 80% of my issues have been bad connections and dry rotted hoses so just by 10' of each size of vacuum hose that you need for extra and I keep spare hoses for others. So just degrease it, clean electrical contacts, replace any hose you can, and buy in bulk ;).
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 09:29 PM
Stripped the engine of some "unnecessary pulleys"   :laugh:   .  Talked to a mechanic friend of mine, he said since I was already deep into it, to check out the timing chain.  Went deeper, glad I did.  While it wasn't showing significant wear, I was able to move the cam gear back and forth a bit.  This will only get worse further down the road.  This will be $40 well spent. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0166_zpsd17ad7c1.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0166_zpsd17ad7c1.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0167_zpsaab3a956.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0167_zpsaab3a956.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on March 17, 2014, 09:35 PM
Do they require you to have all the stock emissions connected in England?

Dave
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 09:36 PM
Has anyone had issues with power steering pumps?  Wondering if it would be worth the $40 or so to replace it now.  Looks like the bleeding procedure is involved with the hydroboost system.  Just thinking out loud.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 09:40 PM
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on March 17, 2014, 09:35 PM
Do they require you to have all the stock emissions connected in England?

Dave

Dave, does my profile say England somewhere?  I looked.  No, I'm in Ks.  We don't have emissions testing.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on March 17, 2014, 09:44 PM
Yep, map says you are just outside of Little Haywood in the UK!   D:oH!

Thats why I asked about England

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3973 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3973)

You need to tickle Mark about that.

Dave
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on March 17, 2014, 10:40 PM
Whoa! According to the map he is DANGEROUSLY CLOSE to Wales...
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Oz on March 17, 2014, 11:16 PM
So, like Dorothy and Toto... you wish you were back in Kansas?

  :laugh:
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 17, 2014, 11:47 PM
Thanks Mark!  Its good to be home!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Froggy1936 on March 18, 2014, 12:09 AM
Sparky Wile its out (i cut a 6 in section out of the bottom of the shroud ) Then you can remove it without removing the fan next time . Had no ill effect on cooling and makes any hose/belt Water pump radiator etc procedure easier   After installing chain and before putting cover on rotate engine 360o and make sure marks realign . Also now is the time to mfg a timing tab for the bottom of the pully You can hacksaw a notch at exact bottom of pully wile off .  Frank
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 18, 2014, 02:42 AM
Thanks Froggy, was already thinking about how to modify the shroud.  I have two timing tabs, one in the normal spot about 2 oclock, and the other about 5 oclock. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on March 18, 2014, 09:35 AM
Post some pics please. I'm curious for my future project Hm?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: tiinytina on March 18, 2014, 09:52 AM
re: hydroboost - on the P30 this also is your power brakes.. and from experience (when it failed) yes worth $40 to put in a new one...... just make sure to tighten it in place and make sure (new) belt to it is tight as well (ie run her up the road and check it again) .....  Trying to turn a 28' beast with no power steering, and or trying to put it into a camp space... without power steering is a real !#@$#$@!^%$&!!!!!  not to mention having no brakes..... eeeks.

Tina
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 19, 2014, 09:29 PM
Thanks Tina!  I went ahead and bolted the orginal back in today.  Maybe a mistake, we will see.  I hate doing that, but budget dictates it right now.   :'(
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 19, 2014, 09:51 PM
While waiting on engine parts, I got started on the wheel bearings and air bags. 

First off, safety.   :)clap    I did not feel comfortable with a front wheel off and my 6ton jackstands holding the rig.  They had to be extended too far and set on a block to get the RV up in the air enough.  Went to harbor freight and picked up a pair of 12 ton units.  Luckily, I caught them on sale  :)ThmbUp .  If you don't have some, you need them  :) .  They are monsters compared the the 6 ton units.  And they reach around 30". 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0181_zps337c707a.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0181_zps337c707a.jpg.html)

Got the wheel/tire off to have a look at the bearings.  Pulled the caliper.  Then after fiddling getting the dust cap off, unscrewd the spindle nut and slid the rotor off.  The bearings are USA made Timkens and looked great.  Cleaned them up, repacked and installed a new seal.  The original seal was a National # 472018 .  No one had that one in stock, and it was 3X the price of National # 8974S that was stocked for the P30.  The original seal was .380" wide, the new one is .5" wide.  It fit and seated fine. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0168_zpsef73e49c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0168_zpsef73e49c.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0171_zps583cce21.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0171_zps583cce21.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0173_zps8f4f0b0c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0173_zps8f4f0b0c.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0174_zps2f697533.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0174_zps2f697533.jpg.html)

Here is a trick, I think Kevin posted some time back.  Put the bearing in a baggie to pack.  BTW - I use Amsoil synthetic marine grease.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0175_zpsbaa2f91e.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0175_zpsbaa2f91e.jpg.html)

Next up I pulled the old, rotten air bag out of it.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0169_zps4340b980.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0169_zps4340b980.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0182_zpseced135c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0182_zpseced135c.jpg.html)

This was done on the drivers side only.  Gonna wait till my new bags come in before buttoning this up and starting the other side. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 19, 2014, 10:03 PM
Some parts came in quicker than expected this morning, so got busy on the engine again.  Parts from Rock Auto.  If you order from them, make sure to do an internet search for a discount code.  I always find a number to use, usually 5% off. 

This shipment was 100% USA made parts  :)clap   

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0180_zps64cea93b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0180_zps64cea93b.jpg.html)

Got started right away this morning.  So far everything is going together as good as expected  W%   The dampner pressed on with no issues.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0183_zps3609eadc.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0183_zps3609eadc.jpg.html)

Going back together.  I was able to install 2 power steering belts now after the unneccessary pulleys were removed.  What do you guys think, worth while to run 2 belts?  Their number is 15410 for those playing at home  :D .  I don't think that is the original number, but it puts the adjustment right in the middle.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0184_zps1545645d.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0184_zps1545645d.jpg.html)

Waiting on a new AC fuel pump to come in.  Also, going to put new bearings in the alternator, they just don't feel right to me.  BTW, the bearings in the passenger side unneccessary pulley were about gone.  My rig as around 65K miles.

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on March 20, 2014, 09:36 AM
Are you going to clean up all the chassis components with a wire brush or grinder and then paint? That'll look SWEET :) to have a glossy black undercarriage!! I know it takes time to do it but I'm watching to see how much hassle this will be for me this fall. Keep up the good work and keep taking pics.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: tiinytina on March 20, 2014, 10:08 AM
impressed that your air bags came out in one piece.. mine were "stuck" to the springs, had to cut them out/off bit by bit... which took close to 1.5 hrs each side... I won't go into installation as that is already well documented here... LOL...

Tina
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: tiinytina on March 20, 2014, 10:09 AM
Check your brake lines while you are under there... 8 tons don't stop on a dime....
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 20, 2014, 12:51 PM
Circle - I'm not planning on cleaning up or painting anything here  :D   Sounds like work to me  :)rotflmao

Tina - the drivers side air bag came out with only a few minutes of fiddling with it, hopefully the other side is the same  Hm?   The new bags are supposed to be in today, may get a chance at installing one soon. 

The brake lines look ok so far, heard the problems with them are internal.  They can break inside in such a way to create a one way valve which causes the brakes to stick.  At a minimum, I'd like to flush the old fluid out soon.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on March 20, 2014, 02:05 PM
Speaking of belts.. I have inspected mine and they look good but... I feel a replacement is due for peace of mind.

I have not installed them yet but I have Gates:

Alt/a.i.r./wp=K060560
PS=3L410
A.I.R. (the lone one)=7450
A/C/ps/wp=3L610

Sound right? I did a x ref from GM PN.

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 20, 2014, 09:10 PM
Don, the only belt I can vouch for is the power steering 3L410 sounds like my 15410.  My other belt, alternator, will be different from yours.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on March 20, 2014, 09:17 PM
This help?

87 Chevy P30 454 (http://navigates.gates.com/Parts.aspx?Year=1987&Make=Chevrolet&Model=P30&Engine=GM+V-8+7.4+L&Class=Medium%2fHeavy+Trucks)

Dave
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 20, 2014, 09:31 PM
Air bags came in today.  About an hour had one in  W%   LOL.  Not looking forward to doing the other side.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0190_zps6df1b65d.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0190_zps6df1b65d.jpg.html)

As I looked at the instructions that came with the bag, it said to twist the bag to slide up into the hole.  It sure doesn't look small enough to me.  Thought for a moment, if I could get a vacuum drawn on the bag to suck the air out, maybe it would make it small enough.  I have an AC vacuum pump from Harbor Freight that was used last about 9-10 years ago when I replaced a compressor in my work car.  After taking it partially apart and finding a standard air hose fitting for it, I hooked it up to the bag and WOW it sucked it flat!

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0191_zps7a1007c9.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0191_zps7a1007c9.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0192_zpsb93bb4a8.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0192_zpsb93bb4a8.jpg.html)

Once the bag was in the coil cavity, had some trouble getting it to untwist enough to get the air connection to where I could get some air in it.  Also, I did not lube it like the instructions said, it seems like it would be too slippery to get a good grip on it to twist it up into that small hole.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 20, 2014, 09:38 PM
Also, picked up the radiator today.  They again commented on how good of shape it is in, guessed about 30K miles, told them to double that  :)rotflmao ! 
They said it definitely had some trash in it.  He explained that they remove one side of the radiator to 'rod' it out then put back together. 
Something I know very little about  Hm?    Cost was $95 + tax

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0193_zps81da5e4f.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0193_zps81da5e4f.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on March 20, 2014, 10:02 PM
Have you seen my post on the airbag / spring job I did?  You had dryer weather..  $@!#@!


http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7759.msg36431.html#msg36431
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 21, 2014, 07:13 PM
Hey Stripe, yea I remember seeing that one!  Really kicking around dropping the lower a-arm, like you did, on the other side.  A side benefit is to be able to check out the ball joints at the same time.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 21, 2014, 07:22 PM
Took the alternator in to have new bearings installed.  They sounded dry when spinning by hand. 
The shop spun it up and found out it had a bad rectifier also.  Good catch!  Cost $60 + tax. 
The alternator is called a CS130 and rated at 105 amps.  We saw 118 out of it. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0195_zpsa9622f97.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0195_zpsa9622f97.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on March 26, 2014, 11:17 AM
Quote from: DonD on March 20, 2014, 02:05 PM
Speaking of belts.. I have inspected mine and they look good but... I feel a replacement is due for peace of mind.

I have not installed them yet but I have Gates:

Alt/a.i.r./wp=K060560
PS=3L410
A.I.R. (the lone one)=7450
A/C/ps/wp=3L610<---Should be 7612, the 3L is too narrow.<------

Sound right? I did a x ref from GM PN.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on March 27, 2014, 10:04 PM
Did you get a new alternator or rebuild the old one?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 28, 2014, 07:33 AM
He rebuilt the original right there as I waited. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on March 31, 2014, 07:32 PM
Still going together  :)ThmbUp .  Got a new AC fuel pump installed.  Got the alternator bracket back on and alternator bolted enough to see if my new belt size fits.  I used a Gates K060529 serpentine belt.  Looks like a great fit and plenty of adjustment left.  Built a 3.8" spacer to place where the unneccessary pulley was and keep the bracket as secure as possible. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0197_zps54c91335.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0197_zps54c91335.jpg.html)

The electric fan switch was spliced into the upper radiator hose (see previous pictures).  I moved it to the thermostat housing to help simplify things.  Also didn't want to cut into my new upper hose  :'( . 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0196_zpsce757634.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0196_zpsce757634.jpg.html)

Edit - 1/2" X 3/8" adapter Edelmann pt# 210860 available at most parts stores, got mine at O'reilly.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on March 31, 2014, 10:33 PM
Looking good..  :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 05, 2014, 06:29 PM
OK, I need some opinions, advice  Hm? .  Notice on my new belt configuration that the water pump-alternator belt only contacts the WP pulley a small amount.  This doesn't look like a good setup to me  i?? .  Potential for a lot of belt slippage it would seem?

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/IMG_0197_zps54c91335.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/IMG_0197_zps54c91335.jpg.html)

I'm currently trying to find a belt size that will go over the wp pulley, crank, and ps pulley.  Instead of the two identical ps belts, one would wrap around the wp pulley.  This will be a custom size I am chasing down.  What do you think?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on April 05, 2014, 08:20 PM
Yes, belt the wp to ps to crank.

Your pics and fitting pn have been a big help, thanks Tom!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 06, 2014, 06:04 PM
Ok, found a 15460 (Gates 7460) belt fits over the crank to WP to PS and tightens about the same as the crank to PS belt (15410).
This should be a better setup.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/New_belts_zpsf4521ee2.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/New_belts_zpsf4521ee2.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on April 06, 2014, 06:31 PM
Yes!!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 07, 2014, 06:26 PM
Made another change to my belt setup  D:oH! .  I remembered that I had another alternator bracket from a previous project and decided to mock it up and see how it looks.  Wasn't real happy with the stock setup after removing the unneccessary pulleys, the alternator belt seems excessively long. 

The new alternator bracket is a mid mount from alan grove components, part number 225R.  Bought it for a V-belt setup and wasn't sure if it would work with a serpentine belt.  After fitting it and getting a new belt, gates K060448, I've decided to run this setup. 

This gets rid of 2 large brackets and cleans up the top of the engine.  Should make servicing that much easier.  Luckily, the alternator wiring was long enough to reach the new location.  I bent some aluminum strap material to connect the solenoid bracket where the stock alternator bracket was at.  Barely see part of it at the top of this photo. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/belts_zps6fd0bf18.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/belts_zps6fd0bf18.jpg.html)

http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/Big_Block_Long_Pump.htm
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 12, 2014, 10:19 PM
Two days of reassembly, its back together for the most part  :)clap    Still need to add coolant, fire it up, and check for leaks. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/radiator_zps784c9954.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/radiator_zps784c9954.jpg.html)

In the mean time I did get some shocks in and installed.  Monroe's front, back and stabilizer. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/shocks_zps4224b942.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/shocks_zps4224b942.jpg.html)

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 12, 2014, 10:26 PM
Forgot to post this.  I did attempt to flush old fluid out of the PS system.  Pictured is the return hose I opened and ran a temporary hose to a drain.  When I rotated the pump by hand, it seems to push out the old fluid.  I also dumped out the reservoir and filled with fresh. 

A fair amount of old fluid came out this way but then stopped.  I refilled the reservoir but could not get new fluid to pump through again.  I Ended up putting the drain hose to my mouth and sucking a bit  :-[ , the fluid then started to come out.  Did this until I felt like new fluid was in this part of the system then put back together.  Not an official flush, but feel better that there is newer fluid in the system. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/ps_zpse47abffa.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/ps_zpse47abffa.jpg.html)


Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on April 13, 2014, 12:22 AM
Whiskey anyone? ???
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: legomybago on April 14, 2014, 01:16 PM
I got a mouth full of gasoline from the genny this weekend.... W%
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 15, 2014, 07:42 PM
My engine oil cooler lines are failing, one is wet and the other appears to be cracking  D:oH! .  After searching for replacements and not finding any, I decided to pull them out and see if a hydraulic shop can repair them.  A coworker suggested a place my employer uses, I will post info on the repair when its done. 

Couldn't get a wrench on the cooler line fitting at the filter adapter, so pulled the adapter out of the block.  After removing the filter, there are two 1/4" allen head bolts holding the adapter to the block.  Had to use a prybar slightly to break it loose. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/oil1_zps64c07867.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/oil1_zps64c07867.jpg.html)

A 3/4" wrench removed the fittings at the cooler.  I pulled the hoses/adapter toward the back of the engine to remove. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/oil2_zps628d06e3.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/oil2_zps628d06e3.jpg.html)

Here are the lines out.  There are four o-rings, one at each end of the tubes that will need replaced.  Also will have to track down new gaskets for the filter adapter.  The fittings at the adapter end are 7/8". 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/oil3_zps66ef835b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/oil3_zps66ef835b.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 22, 2014, 06:43 PM
Got my lines back.  Cost to repair both was $95.  Not too bad considering if new was available, they would be around $70 ea. 

Other parts needed, a gasket kit for the oil filter adapter and two additional o-rings.  Felpro # ES72671 and 7/16" ID o-rings.  However, I stumbled upon a Doorman kit that looks like it has all the o-rings needed.  Would need to verify.  Doorman pt# 82560 and is half price of the Felpro.  $@!#@!

Hyspeco did the line repair.  http://www.hyspeco.com/

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/New_oil_lines_zps5b1bb86c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/New_oil_lines_zps5b1bb86c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on April 22, 2014, 07:57 PM
I had NAPA make me a high pressure line for our power steering on our old 72 Futura, The Ark.  A lot of NAPAs make custom hydrolic lines.  As I recall, they were pretty cheap.

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on April 27, 2014, 11:13 PM
Looking good man! I'm installing a water pump and hoses in 2 weeks. Can you giveme a list of stuff that I should replace while I'm in there and any tips on the radiator removal? I want to change all coolant lines and belts and I've seen your part # for some of them but can you do a list?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 28, 2014, 06:52 PM
Circle, happy to help!  Be aware that my belt part numbers will not work on yours unless you've done the same mods as me.
PS Belt  15410
WP-PS belt 15460
Alt belt  K060448

Hoses (Gates)
21519 upper
21442 lower
Most heater hose was 5/8", Piece from radiator was 3/4" and needed a reducer to connect to remaining 5/8" hose.

New Water pump from Autozone DWP-442HD  (HD version)
New ACDelco fuel pump  42440
Timing chain set  Cloyes  C3024K

Took me most of a day to get the radiator out.  I thought the toughest part was getting to the bolts holding the two radiator support halves together.  Take pictures  :)clap .  You will run into both metric and SAE sizes  $@!#@!   so have a good selection of tools handy. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on April 28, 2014, 07:29 PM
I used Gates on my stock 2 A.I.R. setup.


Alt/a.i.r./wp=K060560
PS=3L410
A.I.R. (the lone one)=7450
A/C/ps/wp=3L610<---Should be 7612, the 3L is too narrow.<------
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on April 28, 2014, 10:17 PM
 :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 03, 2014, 10:39 PM
Got the fan with a new clutch installed.  With all the crap removed from the top of the engine, the fan/clutch slipped in easily  :)clap The clutch is a Hayden #2797 and comes with a lifetime warrany from O'Reilly auto.  Also, in this picture you can see the egr blockoff installed.  From summit racing its part number is RFW-EB4.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fan_egr_zpsf64a2551.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fan_egr_zpsf64a2551.jpg.html)

Picture of the new oil lines installed.  Several fittings on these rebuilt lines made getting everything tightened up a bit cumbersome. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/newoillines_zps657770b7.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/newoillines_zps657770b7.jpg.html)

On the subject, I changed the oil. Put in high zinc synthetic Amsoil made for classic cars with flat tappet cams like our RV's have.  Modern oils have all but removed the ZDDP zinc additive that is necessary to properly reduce friction between flat tappets and cams.  Done because of federal emissions regulations. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/oilfilter_zps7439b134.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/oilfilter_zps7439b134.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 05, 2014, 09:46 PM
Next on the agenda is changing the rear end fluid. 

Mine has a 10 bolt rear cover, apparently some others are 14 bolt.  I first pulled the plug out and checked current fluid level, it was just under the bottom of the plug hole.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/rear1_zps5737d513.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/rear1_zps5737d513.jpg.html)

The cover has 9/16" bolts.  Removal is straightforward.  There was no gasket there, just some sealant.  Guessing that is how the factory does it  i??    Used a lot of paper shop towels to get old fluid out of the bottom of the housing.  Here is where you do not want to find "pieces"  N:(

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/rear4_zps7ba5b885.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/rear4_zps7ba5b885.jpg.html)

Cover cleaned up and new gasket.  Felpro RDS6014

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/rear2_zps8eee2e08.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/rear2_zps8eee2e08.jpg.html)

I used amsoil 75-90W . 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/rear5_zpsef4f2d45.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/rear5_zpsef4f2d45.jpg.html)

This handy pour spout made quick work of installing the new fluid.  Used right at 3 quarts when fluid started coming out of the hole.  Will recheck after first road trip. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/rear6_zpsed47859a.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/rear6_zpsed47859a.jpg.html)


Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 12, 2014, 10:18 PM
The past week I have worked on the main gas tank.  I wanted to replace any rubber lines that needed and check out the in tank fuel pump. 

While dropping the tank, the factory line that connects the tank to the regulator was only 12" or so long  $@!#@! .  Had I known, I would've only dropped the tank enough to disconnect the line.  The tank dropped quickly off the jack and pulled on the fuel supply hard line coming out of the top of the tank, bending it. The tube to sending unit body bond was broke, creating a possible fuel leak if not repaired.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fuel3_zps7bec26af.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fuel3_zps7bec26af.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fuel2_zps536f3615.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fuel2_zps536f3615.jpg.html)

Getting the sending unit out of the tank, I discovered what others here have, the rubber line connecting the fuel pump is broken.  Makes all this work seem somewhat worthwile  W%

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fuel1_zps103e3fd3.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fuel1_zps103e3fd3.jpg.html)

I replaced the fuel pump.  ACDelco pt# EP386 (I got the Delphi equivalent).  It came with everything needed including sending unit to tank oring gasket.  I ohmed the fuel sending unit and it read 10-100 ohms, factory says 0-90 ohms.  I cleaned the contacts inside the sending unit, but didn't help.   i??

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/sender5_zpse67b2dc6.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/sender5_zpse67b2dc6.jpg.html)

Repaired the broken area with JB weld epoxy.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/sender6_zpsd3dcdab1.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/sender6_zpsd3dcdab1.jpg.html)

I replaced the 3/8" fuel line from the tank to the regulator, using plenty of spare in case the tank needs dropped again.  I put a hose barb fitting on the regulator for the 3/8"line.  Also replaced a section of 1/2" rubber fuel line from the regulator to the chassis steel line.  I added extra here too, on my rig the extra fuel line will allow me to remove the regulator without dropping the tank next time  :)clap

Replaced the fuel in and vent hose.  1.75" and 5/8" hose from O'Reilly.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/Fuelin_zpsb8f93ecf.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/Fuelin_zpsb8f93ecf.jpg.html)

Reinstalled gas tank  $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@!   What a job that was!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on May 12, 2014, 10:33 PM
When you lowered your tank to pull out the sending unit and pump, was there enough room while it was under the RV to pull it out of the tank or did you slide the tank out from underneath to do most of that?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 12, 2014, 10:41 PM
While chasing down fuel lines, noticed that the genset fuel lines will need replaced too.  Here I go again  D:oH!   The PO (my FIL) never was able to get the generator to run, so at this point it has been at least 7-8 years since it ran last.  This will be fun  :'(

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/gen1_zps1f7badb2.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/gen1_zps1f7badb2.jpg.html)

My rig has an auxilary 20 gal fuel tank for the generator only.  Of course it was nearly full of who knows how old gas  i??

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/gentank1_zpsb199c95b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/gentank1_zpsb199c95b.jpg.html)

Removed the old hose, repaired the tank vent, and tested the sending unit.  The ground seems bad for the sender, so I installed a new ground wire to attach to the frame. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/gentank2_zpsf254a2f6.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/gentank2_zpsf254a2f6.jpg.html)

Installed about 16' of 1/4" fuel line.  Added a fuel filter in line, not sure why there wasn't one to begin with  i??    Wix # 33001

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/genfilter_zpsfa24a97f.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/genfilter_zpsfa24a97f.jpg.html)

continued....
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 12, 2014, 10:43 PM
Quote from: circleD on May 12, 2014, 10:33 PM
When you lowered your tank to pull out the sending unit and pump, was there enough room while it was under the RV to pull it out of the tank or did you slide the tank out from underneath to do most of that?

I could've worked the sending unit with the tank still under the rig, but i pulled it out from under it for better access. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on May 12, 2014, 10:50 PM
Alrighty! I wish I had a seperate tank for my gen but everywhere I want to put it is a hassle. Great work and pics man. Keep'em coming. That's the next project after I hopefully install the new carb tomorrow.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 12, 2014, 11:05 PM
OK, so new fuel lines, filter, and fresh gas in the tank.  Genset ready to fire  W%    :)rotflmao    Yea right!  The pump isn't pulling fuel.  Advantage of having a clear fuel filter is I can see if fuel is moving.  Pulled a vacuum on the line and was able to get fuel easily, but gen fuel pump not working.  Read on some forums that the pump can be taken apart and cleaned up and may start working, so that is what I did.  (After checking to make sure the pump was getting power while cranking the gen)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/genpump_zps94739abe.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/genpump_zps94739abe.jpg.html)

Pulled pump apart, bottom comes off easily.  Found lots of old gas varnish and that old gas smell  Hm? .   Was successful at cleaning it up.  Using carb cleaner, I was able to clean out the old varnish and clean through the unit and check valve. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/genpump4_zpse3a07d21.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/genpump4_zpse3a07d21.jpg.html)

Reattached pump and still no go  :'(   I even tapped on it with a hammer while cranking, someone suggested  :)clap Tried a couple more times before throwing in the towel.  While researching a new unit, I read where some peeps were replacing the Facet pump with a generic fuel pump.  Low and behold, in my garage from a previous project years ago is a 42S pump that happens to be one that is suggested for this application  :P

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/genpump2_zps503ec6d7.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/genpump2_zps503ec6d7.jpg.html)

I gots to thinking  Hm? , if the fuel pump was varnished like that, what does the carb look like?  Better have a look.  So I pulled it.  As suspected, it was gunked up pretty bad also.  The fuel inlet was plugged.  Took the bowl off and removed the float and needle.  All the farther I took it apart.  Used nearly a can of carb cleaner to spray out all the passages I could get to. 

Dirty:

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/gencarb1_zpse0965667.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/gencarb1_zpse0965667.jpg.html)

Cleaned:

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/gencarb2_zpsd786b17b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/gencarb2_zpsd786b17b.jpg.html)

Put back together.  Installed the new fuel pump.  Once gas got up to it, the gen fired up.  It smoked for a while, but cleared.  It ran smooth with no hunting at all  :)clap   Fired up the AC and let the two run for 1.5 hrs without a hickup.   :)ThmbUp

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/genpump3_zps99085971.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/genpump3_zps99085971.jpg.html)

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on May 13, 2014, 02:39 AM
Good job.. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 13, 2014, 07:23 AM
My hourmeter only shows 24 hrs for the gen, and yes it was working while I test ran the generator.  That seems like unusual low hours for an '87 RV.  By the looks of the Onan, it doesn't seem like it has much time on it. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 13, 2014, 08:38 PM
I liked the cold air setup that Kev put on his, so I bought all the pieces and installed.  Except I got the sexy blue filter  :P   

Bolted two flanges together, sealed with some ultra black sealant, then attached to the original air intake bracket.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/intake1_zpse9d62ebe.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/intake1_zpse9d62ebe.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/intake2_zps4635a3ca.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/intake2_zps4635a3ca.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/intake3_zpsd8e06b22.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/intake3_zpsd8e06b22.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/intake4_zps142f33f3.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/intake4_zps142f33f3.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/intake5_zpsd13c3eb5.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/intake5_zpsd13c3eb5.jpg.html)

Parts list:
From Summit Racing
SPE-9148  Flange  (2)
SPE-9849  intake plenum
SPE-HPR9612B  Filter
SPE-9751  flex duct hose
Also used 2 extra 4" hose clamps
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 14, 2014, 06:41 PM
Holy crap!  You are making some serious headway, man!  Glad some of my posts helped...and I'll be looking at your posts intently when I finally get around to pulling our radiator, eliminating all the extra pulleys and smog pumps and AC compressor and all that, installing the new water pump that I've had for almost 2 years...and replacing the timing chain while I'm at it.  I've got over 120K on the rig now, so its getting close to the time for me to do all that.  Probably this coming winter.

Looking great so far!  What does your rig look like on the outside?  Its gonna look damn good under the doghouse!

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on May 14, 2014, 10:15 PM
I'll tell ya Kev, taking off the AIR pumps and extra hoses have made the vac pressure better and useing CNCs info has been a big help. If you take the alternator off you can get to the bottom AIR pump and take it out easy.
Still looking good sparky!!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 15, 2014, 08:41 AM
Thanks guys!  Glad to share my experience.  As far as the outside, it needs some serious cleaning.  Been sitting under a tree for a while.  Thinking about getting a local detailing guy to come by to scrub it down the first time, then I can take care of it afterwards.  We are planning a father's day weekend trip to the lake, so it needs to be running by then!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on May 15, 2014, 04:58 PM
Leave it looking like crap but run like a champ  :D . Kind of like the old sleeper cars. Nothing special on the outside but the motor and other things are top notch. Then if a thief looks at it they'll feel sorry for you and leave you alone  W% .
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 15, 2014, 05:02 PM
Have you started it since taking the air pump hoses off the exhaust manifold?  The reason I left mine in place is that on mine, if the hoses are off, a get a puft puft putter sound coming out of that box on the exhaust manifolds.  Pretty much the only reason I left my smog pumps in place as well, although I rerouted them to go right into the manifold boxes:

(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/ClydesdaleKevin/North%20Carolina%202013/Picture065_zps7f62613e.jpg) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/ClydesdaleKevin/media/North%20Carolina%202013/Picture065_zps7f62613e.jpg.html)

My eventual plan is to get Banks headers for a 1990 TBI 454...which doesn't have the stupid ports but from what I understand routes the same...and THEN get rid of the smog pumps.  By the way, from everything I've researched so far, headers on a 454 in a motorhome HAVE to be high quality thick steel, like Banks...not the thin steel affordable ones that are way cheaper, or else they'll warp.

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: TommyM on May 15, 2014, 05:10 PM
If one were to build an off-road not-smog-legal engine from one with a AIR injection / smog pump setup, in addition to removing the smog pump and hoses, he would have to plug the AIR manifolds, or replace the manifolds with headers that don't have the smog fittings.  Otherwise you get that put-put noise which is effectively an underhood exhaust leak.

Tommy
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 15, 2014, 05:13 PM
Yep...that's the beauty of being registered in Florida...lol!  No inspections and no emissions testing.  Another thing I'll be doing is going with an Edlebrock Performer intake manifold when I install the headers.

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 15, 2014, 06:46 PM
I did notice a little pressure coming out of both sides with the hoses off.  Not sure what to do yet.  May try plugging off with a piece of hose and plug.  I believe those are supposed to be one way check valves that may be bad anyways.  I do have a serious exhaust leak somewhere, haven't completely pinned it on the manifolds yet.  The exhaust donuts seem to be missing!

Do want to install headers, but running low on cash now, may have to wait till this fall.  Haven't decided which ones but am leaning towards the Hedman Elite series that would be without the smog line connections. Maybe the Thorleys. They do both have an extra thick exhaust flange.  Not worried so much about warpage after I do my timing modifications.  The exhaust should run much cooler. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 15, 2014, 06:54 PM
Noticed my driveshaft Ujoints were not the greaseable type, so I pulled the shaft(s) and had new joints and a carrier bearing installed at a driveline specialist.  They use all Spicer parts.  Almost $200 but a lot of piece of mind knowing they are good now.

Parts included 3 Ujoints and a carrier bearing $138 and $48 to balance.  Took two 1410 and one 1350 Ujoint for those that wanted to know. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/dshaft_zps9367a0f4.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/dshaft_zps9367a0f4.jpg.html)



Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: tiinytina on May 15, 2014, 07:23 PM
Went with Banks here... AIR gone.. no emissions in MD or inspection either... only thing we did was put a piece of insulation between the starter and the headers just in case.  She Sounds like a pack of Harley's and runs like a top.  Truck heavy duty fan clutch so in the summer she also sounds like a jet engine on top of the Harley blada blada blada at take off too.  The Banks system also has the exhaust back to the carb feed built in.  No issue with melted plug wires since either. 

noticed that the U-joints were not greasable.. on my Taco 4x4 I grease those every 10K.  let me know if you feel/see a difference if worth replacing etc.  Nothing done those far has significantly increased mileage thus far... still priceless in the happiness department though.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 15, 2014, 08:54 PM
The old joints didn't feel bad, but they were definitely stiffer to turn than the new ones on now.  Based on the angle of the driveline, it doesn't look like the joints have to work much back and forth.  But the load of these heavy rigs makes me nervous when I can't service or grease a critical component like these. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 15, 2014, 11:00 PM
After most of the emission related stuff out of the way, the next logical step is to get the engine's timing back to where it can make some useable power.  Over a year ago I bought a new GM ZZ4 distributor with the intent of having the ignition curve set up for this RV.  I researched and did a lot of reading on timing and came to the conclusion that it bears most of the responsibility of the woes of 454's in the P30.  Poor economy, driveability, overheating, and busted manifolds are the result of timing curves meant to better emissions than to create a better driving experience for owners. 

The ZZ4 distributor only runs less than $150. (A parts store rebuild is around $100) For that, a new cap and rotor, coil, control module, and new weights and springs.  The distributor provides 22 deg. mechanical advance at approximately 4000 rpm.  I sent mine to Dave Ray to have the curve backed to 3000 rpm, limit the vacuum advance canister to 10 degrees, and reset the distributor endplay.  Cost was $50. 

My timing will look like this initially (may play around with it some later)
10* initial + 22* mech + 10* vacuum = 42* total while light on the throttle running down the highway. A big benefit occurs when the throttle is mashed, the vacuum advance goes away but left with up to 32*. Factory setup is less than 20* which is essentially retarded timing under load, spitting unburned fuel into the exhaust manifolds causing them to overheat and crack. The factory used smog pumps to inject oxygen into the manifolds to burn off the fuel, somehow reducing emissions  ???   

I will probably start running premium, around here it is typically 91 octane. 

ZZ4 distributor GM pt#  93440806
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-93440806-Distributor/dp/B0013G0J9W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400201880&sr=8-1&keywords=93440806

http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/

New distributor after mods.  One of the advance springs was changed along with an advance limiter on the vacuum cannister. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/photo_zpsff97c0c8.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/photo_zpsff97c0c8.jpg.html)

I marked the original distributors housing and rotor position in order to get the new on installed as close as possible.  Pull straight up, the rotor will rotate slightly to the left.  The new distributor will drop right back in, correctly engaging the oil pump driveshaft. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/dist2_zps0d0a370b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/dist2_zps0d0a370b.jpg.html)

Notice the huge difference in distributor shaft endplay, original on the top.  I was slightly taken aback at how much endplay was in the original compared to the new.  Can you say irratic timing  Hm?   

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/dist3_zpsb131b2a2.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/dist3_zpsb131b2a2.jpg.html)

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 16, 2014, 08:47 AM
Quote from: cncsparky on May 15, 2014, 06:46 PM
I did notice a little pressure coming out of both sides with the hoses off.  Not sure what to do yet.  May try plugging off with a piece of hose and plug.  I believe those are supposed to be one way check valves that may be bad anyways.  I do have a serious exhaust leak somewhere, haven't completely pinned it on the manifolds yet.  The exhaust donuts seem to be missing!

Do want to install headers, but running low on cash now, may have to wait till this fall.  Haven't decided which ones but am leaning towards the Hedman Elite series that would be without the smog line connections. Maybe the Thorleys. They do both have an extra thick exhaust flange.  Not worried so much about warpage after I do my timing modifications.  The exhaust should run much cooler. 

Do me a favor and explain exactly what you mean by timing modifications...and when you do them, please explain the process in plain and simple English for dummies...lol!

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 16, 2014, 09:06 AM
Oops!  That's what I get for not reading ahead...lol!

Okay.  So explain in layman's terms exactly what benefit replacing the distributor gains, and every part needed to make it work.  So from what I understand, you bought a totally different distributor, a GM ZZ4, and then had to send it out to a specialist to have it recurved?  Was that better than just sending out the stock distributor to have it recurved?  Also, is the new distributor also HEI?  You said you had to replace the cap and rotor and control module and weights and springs.  Was that because they are different on the ZZ4, or because yours were worn out?  Does it take the same coil?  What were the part numbers for the weights and springs, and did you do that yourself, or did the shop that recurved it replace those parts? And lastly, although I'm sure I'll have more questions, what were your exact instruction to the shop, and what was the turnaround time?

Thanks!

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: legomybago on May 16, 2014, 11:43 AM
QuoteI did notice a little pressure coming out of both sides with the hoses off.  Not sure what to do yet.  May try plugging off with a piece of hose and plug.  I believe those are supposed to be one way check valves that may be bad anyways.

I pulled these hoses out, left one cut end in, and installed pipe plugs with hose clamps in the existing rubber hose.

The timing re-curve, cold air intake, and exhaust work is a must if you want some ponies in these four five fours..Would love to do that to our 86', but when I only weigh in around 14k towing a dingy, it still rolls pretty good right now. My Beaver coach had all that done to it, it was a differant animal than our Komfort, and a lot heavier.

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: tiinytina on May 16, 2014, 12:43 PM
I did find that when I put a naked KN assembly on top of the carb without snorkel/RAM air and removing the exhaust input... in 32F or below driving (also was wet snow so high humidity) I got carb icing and 3.2MPG vs 6.4-7.6mpg seen normally regardless of weather (at this point). 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 16, 2014, 07:28 PM
Quote from: ClydesdaleKevin on May 16, 2014, 09:06 AM
Oops!  That's what I get for not reading ahead...lol!

Okay.  So explain in layman's terms exactly what benefit replacing the distributor gains, and every part needed to make it work.  So from what I understand, you bought a totally different distributor, a GM ZZ4, and then had to send it out to a specialist to have it recurved?  Was that better than just sending out the stock distributor to have it recurved?  Also, is the new distributor also HEI?  You said you had to replace the cap and rotor and control module and weights and springs.  Was that because they are different on the ZZ4, or because yours were worn out?  Does it take the same coil?  What were the part numbers for the weights and springs, and did you do that yourself, or did the shop that recurved it replace those parts? And lastly, although I'm sure I'll have more questions, what were your exact instruction to the shop, and what was the turnaround time?

Thanks!

Kev

Kev, I'll try to answer all your questions as best I can.  The ZZ4 distributor is a GM HEI just like the one in your rig, same cap, rotor, connections, etc.  Its the same distributor that comes with several GM crate engines from SB to BB.  What makes this one nice is it is already setup with the correct center and outer weights to get the total advance timing needed.  The curve is a little slow for most applications, more GM conservative tuning to keep the average enthusiast from damaging anything. 

Correct aftermarket weights (I believe #375 center and #41 outer, stamped on top) are not available.  Up to a couple of years ago one could purchase just the center distributor repair shaft from GM that contained the correct parts.  I tried ordering one and had on backorder a couple of months before they cancelled the order due to being discontinued.  The alternative is to scour the salvage yards for a distributor with the correct weights, if you luck out and find some you still have used parts that wear over time.  There is talk amongst various performance forums of somebody trying to get these made but I haven't heard of any yet.  Also, you can pick up a nearly new used ZZ distributor on ebay, peeps buy a GM crate motor and think an aftermarket MSD is better then sell the HEI. 

To get the same timing out of your distributor, you would need to push the initial up to around 16*+  resulting in starter kickback and possible hard starting. Thats assuming you have the stock distributor, which I understand only puts out around 16* mechanical.  The vacuum can could be changed to an adjustable or get one that only puts 10* out.  Have you checked the weight pivots on your distributor?  Most likely they are worn, sloppy, and rusty resulting in irratic timing.  Mine were a little loose at 65K miles and you can see my comment about the shaft endplay. 

Dave Ray at the link I posted is very familiar with this distributor and needed modifications.  Just let him know before sending it to him.  Turnaround was very quick, like a week or so.  He may be willing to explain the need for the changes a little better than me also  :P .
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 16, 2014, 09:57 PM
Here is some light reading on Ignition curve timing:

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/distributor-tuning-theory-part-1-a-59033.html (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/distributor-tuning-theory-part-1-a-59033.html)

http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/hei.htm (http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/hei.htm)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99600-1/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99600-1/overview/)


You need to grasp the basics first so you can understand the goal of adjusting the curve.

Dave
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 16, 2014, 10:44 PM
Quote from: legomybago on May 16, 2014, 11:43 AM

I pulled these hoses out, left one cut end in, and installed pipe plugs with hose clamps in the existing rubber hose.




I'll do that, thanks!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 16, 2014, 10:51 PM
They also sell vacuum port plugs at the autosupply
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 16, 2014, 11:50 PM
Confused here.  You got new weights, or you didn't?  Love the turnaround time, since we are always pressed for time.

Gonna do this, but am so busy this time, I can't do my own research.  I'm relying on yours...lol!

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 17, 2014, 07:40 AM
Kev, the weights are part of the new distributor.  Its a complete unit, ready to install.  The center and weights are not available separately. 

Most on here have enough miles on their rig to justify at least looking at their distributor for wear.  The new GM distributor is not much more than a parts store rebuilt unit(that does NOT come with cap/rotor).  Get a new distributor, have it curved and setup for your application for about $200.  And that includes the new cap/rotor that comes with it(will need to pick up a new distributor base gasket).  Then swap it out in an hour. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 17, 2014, 08:48 AM
QuoteKev, the weights are part of the new distributor.  Its a complete unit, ready to install.  The center and weights are not available separately.

Stock GM weights that is.  There are aftermaket parts but I have no clue if they are equal to what he is referring to.

First step is to determine what you currently have.  Simple to do. Timing light, degree tape (DIY or aftermarket) and vacuum tool. 
Then you can determine which way to go.

What is your current initial timing set to?  Emissions sticker

How much mechanical advance do you have?  Timing light, degree tape (or fancy timing light Actron (http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16315)).  Simply engine RPM vs advance.  Write ups indicate GM used around 20 degrees but better to know where it is.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll120/BaileyDave/Mystical%20Tuning/DIY_TimingTape_zps016e37b7.jpg)
DIY Masking Tape Degree tape

What is your vacuum advance?  Timing light, degree tape (or fancy timing light Actron (http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16315)) and vacuum pump.  Typically way to much.

Dave

NOTE:  If you live in a yearly emissions requirement state you may not be able to mess with this.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 17, 2014, 11:14 AM
Dave, correct if you have emissions testing probably don't want to mess with this.

There are no known aftermarket advance weight kits that will give the same advance I described above. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on May 17, 2014, 11:35 AM
http://performancedistributors.com/product/gm-crate-engine-dui-distributors/ This is the high end!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 17, 2014, 12:54 PM
Quote from: DonD on May 17, 2014, 11:35 AM
http://performancedistributors.com/product/gm-crate-engine-dui-distributors/ This is the high end!

I haven't looked into those.  My problem with them is they don't say anywhere what the curve is.  In the FAQ section, it indicates that they can set a custom curve for you.  But you will spend another $100 above the GM HEI. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 17, 2014, 10:29 PM
Cool!  I think I'll do some of Dave's "light reading", and then make this mod myself!

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on May 18, 2014, 11:35 AM
http://performancedistributors.com/product/gm-dui-streetstrip/ Better for our ap. I think.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 18, 2014, 01:31 PM
Quote from: DonD on May 18, 2014, 11:35 AM
http://performancedistributors.com/product/gm-dui-streetstrip/ Better for our ap. I think.

But mine is about $100 less and it is setup for a 454 in a MH.  Others across the web I have found using this also.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 18, 2014, 09:40 PM
Yep.  This is definitely on my list now!

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 27, 2014, 09:15 PM
Was having trouble getting the engine to idle down.  Found the choke wasn't opening all the way.  Also, found the choke is non-adjustable  $@!#@!   .  The heating element inside read 31 ohms, read that over 25 ohms its bad.  Seen a few on here had put on a manual choke, so I did the same. 

Original choke

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/choke1_zps4a4d2453.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/choke1_zps4a4d2453.jpg.html)

Picked up a Doorman manual choke kit.  Pt #  55104

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/choke2_zps72a117ba.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/choke2_zps72a117ba.jpg.html)

Drilled a hole in the dash.  Found an opening in the firewall to run the cable.  This version of the choke kit has a 9' cable, plenty of length. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/choke3_zps09352418.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/choke3_zps09352418.jpg.html)

Finished.  The kit seems to work fine.  The cable was a perfect length for my setup.  The engine now idles down like it should. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/choke4_zpse4fa401e.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/choke4_zpse4fa401e.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 27, 2014, 09:19 PM
Now that the choke and idle is fixed, I installed a new tach. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tach_zps26634ede.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tach_zps26634ede.jpg.html)

Since I know the idle RPM's, rechecked the timing with the distributor vacuum line off.  Nice solid 10*, no jumping around   :)ThmbUp   at 700 RPM.  Plugged the vacuum back in and now at 800 RPM. 

About ready for a test run!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on June 03, 2014, 05:00 PM
Cool stuff  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8394/overview/year/1986
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on June 03, 2014, 05:00 PM
How'd it run Sparky?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: engineer bill on June 03, 2014, 05:58 PM
Great stuff Sparky. I just wish I could make some of these changes but I'm afraid California smog law prohibits any of this for me.  $@!#@!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 03, 2014, 09:51 PM
Quote from: DonD on June 03, 2014, 05:00 PM
Cool stuff  http://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8394/overview/year/1986

Nice!  But, IMO, way overkill for a stock 454 in a RV.

Quote from: DonD on June 03, 2014, 05:00 PM
How'd it run Sparky?

Checking out the systems on the coach and de-winterizing.  Will take it for a spin this weekend.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 03, 2014, 09:56 PM
If I had to deal with the smog laws like you , I'd look hard at a late model vortec 454 EFI swap w/OD.  My understanding is you could swap in a later model engine and if you retain its emissions stuff, it would be legal. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 21, 2014, 10:19 AM
Just an update.  Two weeks ago, my wife and I ran out to a local lake only 10 miles away to give the coach a good initial test for one night.  No problems!  Last week we went a little further, about a 200 mile round trip for a weekend.  Pulling a 3500 lb boat, I showed 6.96 mpg.  Not sure I got the fuel tank completely full for an accurate measurement, more on that later.  Even tested the cruise control for a bit, it works!  Got a few things to do before a bigger trip, about 550 miles round, very soon.

Repair exhaust leak
Fuel leak around tank
New front sway bar bushings
Gauges
Repair broken vent cover in bathroom
Troubleshoot transmission not kicking down at highway speeds
Chassis fuel filter
Check spare tire and gather items to change it if needed.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on June 21, 2014, 03:28 PM
That looks exactly like my list :D. Except I need to replace the sink vent. I thought your fuel tank issues were over with from all that work? Keep us posted   :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 21, 2014, 10:42 PM
My fuel system developed a leak.  Noticed it after filling the tank completely for the first time.  Not much but was coming out around the fill hose area.  Didn't know at the time if it was coming off the top of the tank.  I repaired the fuel sending unit and was afraid it was leaking  :'( .  Upon further investigation I discovered the fuel fill hose that O"Reilly sold me was not fuel fill hose but coolant hose.  It is not apparent anywhere on the hose. 

From earlier post, this is the hose I originally installed.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/Fuelin_zps14f23161.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/Fuelin_zps14f23161.jpg.html)

It was a very stiff hose to install and I noticed that it had softened up a lot.  So I did some research and found out it was coolant hose, not for fuel use.   $@!#@!

I did find the correct hose and installed.  Just concerned with how much of that rubber dissolved into my fuel tank.  Hm?

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fuelhose_zpsca9b995e.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fuelhose_zpsca9b995e.jpg.html)

I will top off the tank again soon and make sure there aren't any leaks.  Installed a new chassis fuel filter and have spares with me incase of blockage occurring from the bad rubber hose. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 21, 2014, 11:05 PM
On my trial run road trip, noticed the tranny kickdown wasn't working.  It will downshift at slower speeds like <45mph, but not at highway speeds.  There is a kickdown switch mounted to the gas pedal that was out of adjustment.  Info in the following thread:

http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9748.0.html (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9748.0.html)

After adjustment, verified +12V was getting to the transmission electrical plug when the pedal was depressed.  It still won't downshift.  There is a solenoid inside the tranny that controls at speed downshift.  After talking to a transmission guy at work, he said the TH400 is downshifting at lower speeds based on the vacuum modulator, not the kickdown switch.  At highway speeds, a solenoid inside the tranny receives +12V in order to downshift.  This is NOT the same as pulling the shift lever down to 2nd.  He said that is much harder on the tranny as bands in the tranny must activate for the downshift.  The kickdown solenoid simply dumps fluid pressure to facilitate a downshift. 

My kickdown switch, fairly easy to get to and readjust.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/kdswitch_zpsd3c04ac3.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/kdswitch_zpsd3c04ac3.jpg.html)

Pulled the tranny pan.  The filter is very loose, which I found out is normal  Hm?   Also, the filter outlet seal was badly broken probably allowing unfiltered fluid to enter the tranny. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tranny4_zpseb8a6f9c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tranny4_zpseb8a6f9c.jpg.html)

Installed new filter, temperature sensor, and new kickdown solenoid.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tranny1_zpsfddc276c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tranny1_zpsfddc276c.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tranny3_zps42dc4917.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tranny3_zps42dc4917.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tranny5_zps49c4d159.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tranny5_zps49c4d159.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tranny6_zps2c5cfbb3.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tranny6_zps2c5cfbb3.jpg.html)

I originally bought a Wix filter kit, but my friend said I shouldn't run a paper type filter, but a screen type like is used on later model tranny's.  He picked one up for me.  Barely just see the screen inside the filter housing.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tranny2_zps58c6d775.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tranny2_zps58c6d775.jpg.html)

I tested the old solenoid and it was only intermittently working. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 21, 2014, 11:11 PM
My wipers were essentially gone.  Found some on Ebay.  Replaced the 24" models but apparently my coach came factory with 20" as far as I could find.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/wiper_zps858ab88e.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/wiper_zps858ab88e.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/wiper2_zpsc815a97b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/wiper2_zpsc815a97b.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/wiper3_zps5293dd55.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/wiper3_zps5293dd55.jpg.html)


Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 21, 2014, 11:15 PM
A pic of my rig.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/coach_zps8f5771d1.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/coach_zps8f5771d1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DonD on June 22, 2014, 10:07 AM
Your wipers are identical to mine, got mine at Rock Auto for under $2 ea. Yes, 20in.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on June 23, 2014, 06:46 PM
Great info, I will be looking into this for mine now if anything as a PM...
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 24, 2014, 09:24 PM
Installed new front sway bar bushings.  Mine are 1.25" .  Install was fairly straightforward and easy. 

Old bushings

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/sway2_zps641f42b8.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/sway2_zps641f42b8.jpg.html)

New bushings

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/sway3_zps75f3bdda.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/sway3_zps75f3bdda.jpg.html)

Moog part number.  Two per box, needs 2 boxes.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/sway1_zps811028a0.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/sway1_zps811028a0.jpg.html)


Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 24, 2014, 09:54 PM
Exhaust leaks  $@!#@!    Decided to give it a try to fix myself.  Won't do this again  :)rotflmao   Take it to a pro  D:oH!

My leaks seem to be around where the exh pipe meets the manifold, hoping its not a bad manifold.  I can move the exh pipe around at the manifold, like the 'donut' is gone. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/exh1_zps881b0db4.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/exh1_zps881b0db4.jpg.html)

Driver side, 2 of 3 bolts broke off.  One broke flush and the other left a stud.  On this side, was able to easy-out the broken flush bolt and the stud came out with vice grips.  Lots of heat from a Map gas torch and penetrating oil. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/exh2_zpscb5dd01c.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/exh2_zpscb5dd01c.jpg.html)

Used an exhaust stud kit (doorman).  This side back together and not leaking anymore  :)ThmbUp

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/exh3_zpsbcd48c4f.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/exh3_zpsbcd48c4f.jpg.html)

Now, the passenger side.  It did not go so well  $@!#@! .  Was so frustrating that I failed to get any pics.  All three bolts broke off flush.  Broke 2 easy outs.  Probably 5-6 hours on my back working on this side itself. Finally decided to drill out the broken bolts and install 3/8" through bolts.  Need very good drill bits to do this.  And after all this, it still leaks  $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@! .  Not sure the donut seated properly, will recheck it later.

Lesson learned: Don't be a cheap bum, go to a professional  W%
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on June 25, 2014, 01:28 AM
Groovy you used almost the same bushings I did..
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: legomybago on June 25, 2014, 03:27 PM
QuoteNow, the passenger side.  It did not go so well  (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/Smileys/default/censored.gif) .  Was so frustrating that I failed to get any pics.  All three bolts broke off flush.  Broke 2 easy outs.  Probably 5-6 hours on my back working on this side itself. Finally decided to drill out the broken bolts and install 3/8" through bolts.  Need very good drill bits to do this.  And after all this, it still leaks  (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/Smileys/default/censored.gif) (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/Smileys/default/censored.gif) (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/Smileys/default/censored.gif) .  Not sure the donut seated properly, will recheck it later.




That is very, very, painful....been there.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 26, 2014, 11:50 PM
Installed a new triple gauge set.  Not finished, would like to add 3 more including a voltmeter, oil pressure, maybe fuel pressure.  I installed a tranny temp gauge since I tow a boat and don't have an external tranny cooler.  Engine temp as the factory one is very ambiguous.  And a fuel mileage vacuum gauge, since someone on here had one and I got jealous   :P

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/triplegauge_zpseb8cf581.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/triplegauge_zpseb8cf581.jpg.html)

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 27, 2014, 12:00 AM
My speedo reads 5mph slow compared to my garmin.  Looked online and found that I can change gears in the tranny to help it out.  Every tooth change equates to a 2.5% change.  I calculated a 7.6% error, so need to change by 3 teeth.  Lower the tooth count if the speedo is reading slow like mine.

My original is a 'green' gear with 42 teeth.  The housings can only take a certain range of gears, mine was 40-44 teeth.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/speedo1_zps23773b79.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/speedo1_zps23773b79.jpg.html)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/speedo2_zps4d84fad4.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/speedo2_zps4d84fad4.jpg.html)

Was only going to put a 40 so I wouldn't have to change housings, but the parts house did not have the 'black' 40T gears in stock.  Ended up getting a good used housing for $7 from them and the çorrect 39T 'red' gear.  Also new seals, all for less than $20. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/speedo3_zps4499e391.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/speedo3_zps4499e391.jpg.html)

Going on a trip in a few days and will report back if this made my speedo more accurate.


Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: legomybago on June 27, 2014, 10:37 AM
With the 5 mph variation you have/had, you could calculate how many miles your rig REALLY has on it!!!  :P
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: GONMAD on June 27, 2014, 12:03 PM
Good start! regarding the belts for the power steering/ hydroboost, ALWAYS try to install a 'matched set' of belts. if one belt fails you're out of brakes & steering. I've had this happen to me twice before I went to matched pairs. Safety first & it's worth the cost for the peace of mind!! Also install a 'FAILSAFE' 180 thermostat. If it fails it remains open so as not to burn the engine up. Be sure to examine the rear brake rotors, I had one of mine come off in my hands separate from the hub... kinda scary! Be SURE to thoroughly inspect ALL fuel lines for rust & surely replace ALL rubber hoses & use good clamps as some new line clamps are inferior quality from some third world country that doesn't have standards, I suggest marine or aircraft clamps.  I have had to replace all brake line hoses just for safety purposes..nuf said bout that! You're off to a good start & your list will get longer. The end result is truly rewarding. Congrats & good luck!   GONMAD
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: TripleJ on June 27, 2014, 02:10 PM
Quote from: legomybago on June 25, 2014, 03:27 PM



That is very, very, painful....been there.

Same here.  My passenger pipe was flopping loose at the flange.  I broke all three studs flush even with heat applied.  I drilled and tapped rather than mess with EZ outs - never had much luck with those things...

The extra bit of fun for me was the flare on the pipe was so small and crooked that the flange would slip right over it.  Had to use a split flange kit but its all good now.  I also threw out the heat riser valve.  Man that was sweaty work under the ol RV

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/smasheromalley/HR%20PICS/044110B2-BB3A-4D1D-841E-E4B208493700.jpg)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 27, 2014, 09:54 PM
Quote from: legomybago on June 27, 2014, 10:37 AM
With the 5 mph variation you have/had, you could calculate how many miles your rig REALLY has on it!!!  :P

Thats funny, didn't think about that.  It would add about 5K miles to mine which is currently showing around 65K. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 27, 2014, 09:56 PM
Quote from: TripleJ on June 27, 2014, 02:10 PM
Same here.  My passenger pipe was flopping loose at the flange.  I broke all three studs flush even with heat applied.  I drilled and tapped rather than mess with EZ outs - never had much luck with those things...

The extra bit of fun for me was the flare on the pipe was so small and crooked that the flange would slip right over it.  Had to use a split flange kit but its all good now.  I also threw out the heat riser valve.  Man that was sweaty work under the ol RV

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/smasheromalley/HR%20PICS/044110B2-BB3A-4D1D-841E-E4B208493700.jpg)


Haven't seen one of those flanges before.  I left the drivers side heat riser valve in place since removing it I would've had to extend the exh. pipe somehow.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on June 27, 2014, 09:57 PM
Quote from: GONMAD on June 27, 2014, 12:03 PM
Good start! regarding the belts for the power steering/ hydroboost, ALWAYS try to install a 'matched set' of belts. if one belt fails you're out of brakes & steering. I've had this happen to me twice before I went to matched pairs. Safety first & it's worth the cost for the peace of mind!! Also install a 'FAILSAFE' 180 thermostat. If it fails it remains open so as not to burn the engine up. Be sure to examine the rear brake rotors, I had one of mine come off in my hands separate from the hub... kinda scary! Be SURE to thoroughly inspect ALL fuel lines for rust & surely replace ALL rubber hoses & use good clamps as some new line clamps are inferior quality from some third world country that doesn't have standards, I suggest marine or aircraft clamps.  I have had to replace all brake line hoses just for safety purposes..nuf said bout that! You're off to a good start & your list will get longer. The end result is truly rewarding. Congrats & good luck!   GONMAD

Thanks for the tips!
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: TripleJ on June 28, 2014, 07:22 AM
Quote from: cncsparky on June 27, 2014, 09:56 PM
Haven't seen one of those flanges before.  I left the drivers side heat riser valve in place since removing it I would've had to extend the exh. pipe somehow.

I didn't know about them either, but when I described my problem at the part store they knew exactly what I needed. I actually went in looking for a tool that I could re flare the pipe while still on the vehicle.

My rig has dual exhaust with the pipe run straight back on either side. All I had to do was loosen the clamps front to back, and shift the whole pipe forward a little bit :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on June 28, 2014, 09:20 AM
By chance have the Mfg name and P/N for the clamp?  Thats what people will need if they run into it in the future.

Dave
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Stripe on June 29, 2014, 02:26 AM
I second that..
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on July 01, 2014, 12:06 PM
cncsparky, when you dropped the fuel tank did you have to cut the vent tube that goes up beside the fill hose? I don't have a disconnect or hose clamp to get to so I was going to cut it and splice it back together like the fill hose.
And still curious if the extra fuel line coiled up on top has made a difference other than just needing extra time to prime.  Hm?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: TripleJ on July 04, 2014, 11:26 AM
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on June 28, 2014, 09:20 AM
By chance have the Mfg name and P/N for the clamp?  Thats what people will need if they run into it in the future.

Dave

At the peril of drawing the wrath.... here is the requested info from Oreilly's website


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/ROL0/577756.oap?ck=Search_577756_-1_4639&keyword=577756


2.5 inch split flange kit

ROL Gaskets - Exhaust Flange
Part Number: 577756
Line: ROL

    90 day limited warranty
    UPC: 62573510409
    Split Flange
    Fits 2-1/2 Inch Pipe
    3 Bolt Holes

Detailed Description-
    Split flange designed for repair without disassembly of exhaust system


Additional Details-
    Diameter (In): 2-1/2 Inch

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on July 04, 2014, 12:16 PM
Thanks JC,
The ROL catalog (http://rolmfg.com/rolmfg.com/media/pdf/ExhaustRetailCatalog/Z13878%20(low%20res).pdf (http://rolmfg.com/rolmfg.com/media/pdf/ExhaustRetailCatalog/Z13878%20(low%20res).pdf)) has a lot of useful exhaust items

Dave
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 06, 2014, 07:28 PM
Quote from: circleD on July 01, 2014, 12:06 PM
cncsparky, when you dropped the fuel tank did you have to cut the vent tube that goes up beside the fill hose? I don't have a disconnect or hose clamp to get to so I was going to cut it and splice it back together like the fill hose.
And still curious if the extra fuel line coiled up on top has made a difference other than just needing extra time to prime.  Hm?

Sorry I'm a little late, was on a trip.  The 5/8" vent line didn't need cut, but I did replace it along with the fill hose.  Just make sure you get fuel hose, not coolant hose. 

The extra fuel line doesn't seem to make any difference at all.  Just easier if I need to drop the tank again or mess with the chassis mounted pressure regulator. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on July 06, 2014, 08:29 PM
Gotcha ya  :)ThmbUp. I've already dropped it and waiting on parts.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 09, 2014, 10:39 PM
Well, my first big trip in the rv didn't start off or end so well  :'(

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/tranny8_zpse15fbd1b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/tranny8_zpse15fbd1b.jpg.html)

About 200 miles into my 300 mile trip, lost 2nd and 3rd gear.  Had first and reverse.  Was able to ease it to a truck stop at 25mph in a 65. Tried some quick diagnosis but no avail.  Fortunately, my insurance agent signed me up for roadside assistance and they actually towed me the rest of the 100 mile trip  :)clap at no charge to me (except tip to driver). 

All was not lost for my week vacation.  We planned a week at a campground on Tablerock lake in Mo, my parents have a lake house near the campground.  I had the rv towed to their place and we drove 1st gear to the campground for the week  :)ThmbUp .  Meanwhile, while camped, we tried troubleshooting the tranny and decided something was wrong with the governor( my dad owned a tranny shop years ago and I have friends that work on them).  Pulled it out and found this the gear was gone.  Its under a four bolt cover on the side of the tranny.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/tranny7_zpsf8a138da.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/tranny7_zpsf8a138da.jpg.html)

We thought sure enough that was the problem, ordered parts early in the week and had them in two days and tranny back together.  Took for a quick 10 mile test run where it ran great.  Finished out our week at the campground and loaded up to head home.  We got about 7 miles away and lost high gear again  $@!#@! .  Babied it back to the parents house, pulled the governor and again it sheared the gear off.  I pulled the extension (tail) housing off and found lots of rust.  There are two large roller bearings in the housing that support the drum parking brake, they are rough and rusty.  We decided it was probably best to drop the whole tranny out to freshen it up and troubleshoot.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/tranny9_zpsac59e820.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/tranny9_zpsac59e820.jpg.html)

As of right now the rv is a resident of MO with its tranny out.  I am gathering parts and will head back there in a couple of weeks to put together. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: circleD on July 09, 2014, 10:47 PM
I'm sorry to hear that man. You've done so much work and quick on that thing. I guess its good to know people with tools, experience, and a place to park it. I know you'll get it fixed and probably built better than before  :)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: boogie_man on July 10, 2014, 05:42 PM
Heartbreaker  :(, I can't believe the work you've done this beast.  It's been very inspiring to say the least, keep the updates coming and you'll get it going again I'm sure.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: legomybago on July 10, 2014, 05:55 PM
I thought the PO told you it was a new transmission when you purchased the rig????????????????????? :(
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 11, 2014, 07:12 AM
Quote from: legomybago on July 10, 2014, 05:55 PM
I thought the PO told you it was a new transmission when you purchased the rig????????????????????? :(

The PO is my FIL, he did a lot of work on it himself but not tranny work.  It appears original and untouched.  Until now LOL.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on July 11, 2014, 09:05 AM
Those transmissions are usually bulletproof unless they get overheated at some point in their history.  Bad luck blowing like that.  Good luck fixing it, man.

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 11, 2014, 07:59 PM
I agree Kev, these are generally bulletproof trannys.  Problems arise on units like mine that haven't been driven regularly. Worst thing for a vehicle. Found lots of rust in the extension housing area.  The output shaft bearings (2) are rough and rusty along with the steel governor drive gear on the shaft.  Before failure, while pulling my boat the transmission temp was running around 165 deg, perfect.  That is without an external cooler which I'm not convinced yet I need. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tparts1_zps6965a13b.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tparts1_zps6965a13b.jpg.html)

Found a pic of the extension (tail) housing (not mine)

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/00p0p_kjXxYjh6xmY_600x450_zpsc8320ec4.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/00p0p_kjXxYjh6xmY_600x450_zpsc8320ec4.jpg.html)

If you find you need to open this end of the transmission, here are some parts I researched numbers on.  The output shaft seal and bearings are not on standard TH400's.  The bearings (2) are National #109 and seal is National # 2457 or SKF # 21111.  The top (red) seal is a standard TH400 output seal and ours is the green one.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tparts3_zps58513c05.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tparts3_zps58513c05.jpg.html)

Here is a pile of parts I've accumulated so far.  My TH400 will be as good as if not better that stock with updates installed. 
BTW - Found mine and most on here are actually TH475's, heavier duty versions of TH400's.  All parts interchange, but we have straight cut planetary gears (stronger, but noisier) and I understand a lower first gear ratio. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tparts2_zps6b3c9303.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tparts2_zps6b3c9303.jpg.html)

Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: TerryH on July 11, 2014, 09:26 PM
 Problems arise on units like mine that haven't been driven regularly. Worst thing for a vehicle.

Totally agree with you here cncsparky. Don't know much about automatics, but I've been told by many that do -
If you don't drive it regularly, every time you start  and run it to keep things lubed in the engine:
1. foot on the brake then put the tranny in gear. Runs the pumps and circulates fluids that lube all of those expensive parts. Having it in Park, from what I've been told won't do this.
2. not tranny related, but if possible, each time you start your rig due to unuse, move it forward and backward a few times,  applying  the brakes to stop. Same thing - gets the fluid moving and lubing the brake system.

Doesn't apply to your situation, and again it is what I've been told, but if it helps someone else.........

Terry

PS If you want to hear an interesting story re the PO of my last boat and the trannies (twin 440's, counter rotating) let me know.
T
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on July 12, 2014, 08:17 AM
I did hear somewhere that under extreme load, GM transmissions can fail because the pressure build up so much in the torque converter that it can actually balloon, causing transmission damage and failure.  So far, at 120K of extreme load driving, ours is holding up well.  As far as an external cooler, I highly recommend it, especially if you plan on driving and towing in the mountains.

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 12, 2014, 08:34 AM
Convertors can balloon, taking out thrust bearings in the engine and/or crushing the tranny pump gears.  But I've only heard of this in racing applications with heavy nitrous use.  Wouldn't worry about it in ours.  I'll add a tranny cooler if I see any temperature running or spikes above 200 deg. . 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: MotorPro on July 12, 2014, 04:07 PM
Happens all the time in stock applications. I have had many engines come in to my shop with the rear of the thrust bearing gone. I then will put in the rebuild contract that the converter must be replaced. I have never had 1 come back if they listened and put in a new converter but I have had engines come back when they didn't replace it and destroyed the thrust again.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 12, 2014, 04:33 PM
What causes the ballooning?  Heat? 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on July 12, 2014, 09:12 PM
Heat is a part of it, but mostly extreme pressure.

Kev
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: MotorPro on July 13, 2014, 09:04 AM
Not sure as I am an engine guy and limited experiance on trans. I do know that the problem seems to be in the converter as it doesn't return after the converter is replaced.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on July 13, 2014, 09:25 AM
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/turbo-400-causing-engine-front-bearing-failure.662548/ (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/turbo-400-causing-engine-front-bearing-failure.662548/)

Dave
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 13, 2014, 12:51 PM
If the convertor truely ballooned, then it would have to be replaced.  Sounds like the potential problem with motor homes exist when the transmission exerts too much fluid pressure on the convertor circuit, causing the convertor to move forward and push against the thrust surface of the engine's crankshaft. 

Thanks Dave for the link!  Very informative.

Will look into the 'full time lube mod' and 'restrictor mod' with some local transmission guys. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 28, 2014, 05:22 PM
(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/trannydone_zps894ccb33.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/trannydone_zps894ccb33.jpg.html)

Well, new tranny is in  :)clap .  A lot of work, but it is on the road again.  I left the RV in MO as we plan to camp there again this summer anyways.  We took a 20 mile trip just to see everything working, would like to take it on a local 100 mile or so drive just to get my confidence back in it.   
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: boogie_man on July 28, 2014, 05:28 PM
Great job !!!   You're an inspiration to the moty-ho community   :)clap :)clap

Scott
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 30, 2014, 09:38 PM
If your tranny filter pipe is broken, here is a pic and part number of a replacement.  They get old and brittle.  This one fits the deep pan, would be a different one for the shallow pan.  Does not come with an Oring.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/tranny_pipe_zps13dd4a86.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/tranny_pipe_zps13dd4a86.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: GONMAD on July 31, 2014, 07:14 PM
It's a GOOD practice to use two "O" rings on the suction tube going up into the trans housing. WE also install a light spring on the filter retainer bolt to help hold the filter to the deepest draft & prevent floating the filter. The good filter is of a brass screen type & NOT the dacron element. The good part is you can wash out the screen & see if any debris is there. Regarding the vacuum modulator the 'RED STRIPE unit works really well for an RV & it's adjustable! If the pan doesn't have a magnet inside put one in! It collects any metal "dust" in the fluid & keeps everything happy inside. The more trans coolers the better, It's better to bring the fluid back up to temp than back down. I run a DERALE vented "EXTRA DEEP" pan. My trans holds 22 qts. of fluid & never overheats. YAY!! My brother & I build 400 turbo's to take 800 HP all day long & I consider this to be THE best trans out there bar none & coupled with a Gear vendors over-underdrive there is really nothing to come close. We have two gear vendors units, one in MY P30 & the other in a 1955 Chevy They work flawlessly & bring great satisfaction for results. You can find them used on EBAY & other sites but I recommend a NEW one for your application. That way all the related hardware comes with it. OK I'm done babbling for now, GOOD LUCK in the future GONMAD
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on July 31, 2014, 10:06 PM
Someone suggested two orings also, I will install when I service the tranny after several hundred miles.  Haven't heard about installing a spring, but seems like a good idea.  We did install the red stripe adjustable modulator.  The original GM tranny pan has a magnet.

Gear vendors OD is neat, but not for me.  I'd rather spend that kind of money on EFI and a 4L80E. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Froggy1936 on August 01, 2014, 11:43 AM
Sparky I highly reccomend the 4L80E Even with all the electrical work for the original computor This is a fantastic tranny that really has a brain of its own It is always in the right gear under all conditions.  But on the FI do not use a OBD I syestem Use only a syestem that has an injector for ea cly . The OBD I is like going from a 4 barrell carburator to a 2 barrell  There is no performance and so far very little MPG improvement over the Quadrajet As you are always wide open to gain speed And the 2 injectors are not adequate They work well at speeds above 60 MPH but not too good at lower speeds . I have 2 codes for problems that i have not had time to investigate yet 1 Is temp sensor wich is new ? and the other is O2 sensor wich is also new but may have lost heater function as i wired it to be constantly on wile engine is running . The exaust smells really rich during warm up but goes away after warmed Best so far is 8.75 MPG @ 60+ MPH avg Trans will achive OD on level road @ 60MPH @ 2100 RPM Will also run @ 1300 RPM @ 40 MPH   Best Quadrajet mileage was 12 MPG on level road between Houston and San Antonio with AC off @ 55 MPH hot summer day with Turbo 400 3 speed  So i am shooting for 15 MPG with OD But its difficult to find 100 mi of level road around here  Frank  Correction made !
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on August 01, 2014, 12:47 PM
Froggy, what rear gear ratio do you have?  I think mine is 4.56.  3000 @ 65mph.  Would be nice to run a few hundred R's lower.

I've always wanted to play with the Megasquirt diy efi controllers, along with the tranny controller.  A multiport manifold and throttle body are the main expenses for me to convert over. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Froggy1936 on August 01, 2014, 06:46 PM
Hi sparky  I have 4:10 gears W 16.5 wheels I have to check into multiport injection wich should be a bolt on addition Trans should not care !  Also found out a Chevrolet V6 AC compressor / PS bracket shoud be a bolt on fix for my Dash Air ! Frank
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Froggy1936 on August 01, 2014, 06:57 PM
Current partial list  W4:10 gears and 16.5 wheels Veh weight 12200 lbs
40MPH - 1300 RPM
55MPH - 1975 RPM
60MPH - 2100 RPM
65MPH - 2200 RPM
68MPH - 2300 RPM
70MPH - 2400 RPM
All speeds from 1995 Speedometer (reads 2MPH high ) compared to GPS reading 1995 Van had 16 in tires   Frank
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on September 28, 2014, 08:25 PM
Just an update on my project.  We got the RV back home over labor day weekend!  300 mile trip went fine, no problems.

Final diagnosis on the TH400 failure, the rear case bushing was very worn, that along with the two bad bearings in the extension housing, allowing the output shaft to move around excessively and destroying the governor gear. 

Now, on to other projects.........

Edit - on page 5 I had changed my speedometer gear in the tranny and didn't update.  After changing by 3 teeth, the speedo is now dead on compared to my GPS  :)clap .
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on January 24, 2015, 06:37 PM
Its been a while since an update  W% .  Here are a couple of projects I did last year.

While prepping for our big weeklong vacation (before the tranny blew), I noticed a strong odor in the coach.  It was ammonia  $@!#@! .  Fridge stopped working  :'( .  Two days before leaving.  Read on the forums where people were replacing the expensive RV fridges with small home/apartment units.  Thats what I did. 

Old one

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fridge1_zps3453fd0f.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fridge1_zps3453fd0f.jpg.html)

Empty hole. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fridge4_zpse38e988e.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fridge4_zpse38e988e.jpg.html)

New unit.  Got it at Lowe's for around $300.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fridge5_zps57ad3f18.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fridge5_zps57ad3f18.jpg.html)

Installed.  Still have some trim work and need a better way of securing it down but it made the trip and worked great!

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/fridge6_zps292012c5.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/fridge6_zps292012c5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on January 24, 2015, 06:48 PM
The vent over the bathroom developed a hole in it.  Remember a small hail storm at some point last summer, probably did it.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/vent1_zps8c2e5263.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/vent1_zps8c2e5263.jpg.html)

Used a hot air blower and scraper to get the big part of the sealant off.  Unscrewed and removed the old vent.  Acetone seemed to work best at cleaning up.  Also used a 3" red roloc discs on a die grinder to clean the aluminum and give the eternabond a good place to stick.

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/vent2_zpsa59e5586.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/vent2_zpsa59e5586.jpg.html)

Guess I didn't get a final pic.  I siliconed the new vent flange, screwed it down, then after cleaning silcone that oozed out I eternabond tape sealed the vent. 

(http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk298/RAT4548/RV/vent3_zps2b61e1e5.jpg) (http://s283.photobucket.com/user/RAT4548/media/RV/vent3_zps2b61e1e5.jpg.html)

Its a Fantastic vent with fan.  The fan is amazing, it pulls lots of air through the coach.  Planning to replace the other two units on my RV. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: eXodus on January 27, 2015, 01:14 PM
i like the residential fridge, i also got the 10 cubic from lowes

a couple of years ago this hadn't been possible. inverter had been expensive, fridges  neede way to much power, but tis has changed.

had been on a rv show last weekend and every new coach over 150.000k has a residential fridge, the cheaper had still the absorption style but i think they will disappear over time. 12v dc is the future.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 27, 2015, 07:23 PM
I don't think they are going to disappear. Absorption fridges use next to nothing for energy and very little gas so they are still the best thing to have for boondocking and small campers like truck campers. When you think about it, if treated correctly they last decades. There are many 60's and 70's campers out there still using the original fridges.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: eXodus on January 28, 2015, 09:24 AM
yeah rick, we will see.


I now for sure that there are a couple Chinese manufactures currently rolling out 12v DC compressor refrigerator which are running of a solar-panel for the use in lesser developed countries. They are taking up less then 300wh for a 10 cubic feet a day.


So these would be even more interesting for boon-dockers. Get a DC fridge, get it to your house battery, hook up a 100w panel (which produces an average of 400wh per day) and you should be good for indefinite dry camping. The nice thing about a solar power fridge, the solar panel produces the most power when the fridge needs the most power.


A good compressor type fridge should die never. We still got a Deep freezer from my Grandma which is also getting about 40 years old now.
For truck campers even more interesting, since you don't have to level.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Froggy1936 on January 28, 2015, 01:01 PM
Absortion refrigerators, Have been around for along time, The science is very old . My father had 1 in his kitchen (new) in 1950 It was still operating flawlessly when he passed away in 1985, We left it in the house when we sold it It may still be runing ? The only drawback they have for RV use is they must be level when parked !  12 V motors pull a lot of amps to get there work done ! Stay tuned there will be van answer in about 50 yrs   Frank
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: eXodus on January 28, 2015, 04:53 PM
an absorption Style refrigerator needs tons of energy ! A cheap compressor refrigerator has an COP Coefficient of performance of 3, a better one  has 5


this means of one kwh which goes into the fridge it transfers between 3 and 5 kwh of heat out of the fridge.


An absorption style fridge has between COP 0.7 and 1.6.  The only nice thing is,  one pound of propane are 6.9kwh of energy. So in a normal RV Propane tank you are carrying around a lot energy. Which a battery can not provide yet.


8 amps running ? is not that much.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: FastGlassman69 on January 31, 2015, 09:29 AM
Glad you took the time to remind us about safety! I put my 1988 chieftain up on a pair of HF 6 tonners and pulled the front wheels then put a pair of craftsman 3 tonners under the front hubs, was just getting ready to get under her when I was adjusting the right hub stand and she slowly slid 2 feet sideways off the jacklanding on her belly ! I immediatly returned those 6 ton stands as the bent andgot the 12 ton ones and bought 2 4 ton floorjacks too. I used to take chances working on my tractor -trailers when I was 22-45 yo but not anymore! Thanks, Bobby
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 31, 2015, 10:22 AM
You have to have a solid footing under any stand. If the footing is not solid then any stand can fail. They are designed to hold weight straight up but if they are on an angle then they are useless.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: jeno on April 22, 2015, 05:35 PM
i just removed thetwo air pumps and was wondering the belt numbers you gave are thay for no air pumps? the egr block off what is the reson for that and does that help the engine thanks jeno
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on April 24, 2015, 12:57 PM
Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

The belt numbers I listed worked on my rig after I removed both pumps.  Unless you changed the alternator mount like I did, the alternator belt won't work for you.

The EGR is purely an emissions device.  If you removed most vacuum lines from your engine, you will want to block it off. 
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Rickf1985 on April 24, 2015, 08:26 PM
Be aware that blocking off and or disconnecting the EGR could cause the engine to start pinging. If you hear it pinging then just back the timing off a couple degrees. Do not ignore it or you will be replacing a lot of spark plugs and eventually a piston or two.
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: GONMAD on April 25, 2015, 08:31 AM
You can use the GM HEI module that has 5 pins, the 5th pin is for ignition retard. When connected t a knock sensor it automatically & instantly pull the timing back to prevent detonation. This trick is also good for high gear retard on a racing machine as well & can be activated with a switch on the throttle or by hand. This 'trick' has saved many engines from failure due to pre ignition. I used to 'ARM' this device with the Nitrous switch on one of my high performance race cars & even installed one on a custom mopar distributor remotely mounting the module on a computer heat sink under the dash. I just thought this might help Guys. C YA! GONMAD
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: Rickf1985 on April 25, 2015, 09:39 AM
Good info, I had heard of that before but never done it. Is that pin grounded to retard?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: cncsparky on May 08, 2015, 12:46 PM
That is good info Gonmad, did not know that.  I've modified my distributor with a custom curve, detailed in an earlier post.  Not sure which module is factory installed in a ZZ4 distributor?
Title: Re: My P30 project
Post by: GONMAD on May 09, 2015, 02:33 AM
Hey Guy's, The retard is grounded into the knock sensor which is activated when knock occurs but can be hooked to a toggle switch or a micro-switch on the throttle for activation at WOT. As for which module to use in most applications, pretty much any of the units with a prefix 999 will work better than any others. Make sure you use only genuine GM modules or the desired results aren't as good. I don't have the number for the 5 pin module right off hand but I'll do a search to find it. Hope this helps some.C YA! GONMAD