When we bought Betty, we were told she had a roof leak over the driver's area in the past but it had been sealed. She hasn't leaked, but there's been a problem with the ceiling hanging low in the area between between the seats. If you recall, Betty was retired from a tailgater RV for a local radio station and the RV dealer that maintained her had stripped the fineries from her and remodeled her to a tailgate/live remote coach for the station. All interior walls and ceiling were covered with 1/4" foam with automotive grade vinyl - light gray for the walls and white for the ceiling.
They had already removed the vinyl from the ceiling and the foam and plywood was all the remained. The leak either by volume or time had caused the plywood to delaminate causing the sag.
With the weather outside crappy I decided to remove the ceiling over the front. What a mess. I also discovered Allegros were built from the inside out. The plywood came down in long woody strips and fractured splinters. No glue holding it to the aluminum roof rafters. It was stapled along the edge and thats it. The upper most layer of plywood had spray foam insulation (very thin) between the rafters. I forgot to take pictures before and during but I did for the after.
I will now get some 1" thick pink foam board to insulate and fill the void between the rafters, then go back with a 1/4" plywood as original. I plan on using construction adhesive to attach both the foam board and the plywood. I was able to save the foam padding to glue it back up. And I also have the original vinyl previously removed.
Now a question for the remodeling experts: The vinyl had been folded and stored in a cabinet for at least a year. I've spread it out and many of the wrinkles and creases are gone, but not the smooth finish it one was. Any ideas on getting it smoothed out again? I've got it rolled tightly on a cardboard tube hoping that will help. I don't know where I could correctly match the color and that large of a piece would be expensive I would think.
Ideas?
ORAR,
A few products come to mind that you can try.
1: Lanolin, great for softening skin as well :)
2: Saddle Soap, does a great job on Vinyl AND leather
3: Nu-Vinyl, great for tires and anything else rubber or plastic on your vehicle and some household
items
Hope that helps
Fredric
I hadn't thought about applying something to smooth it. I was thinking the sun, iron, steam?
Internet is full of contradictions. I dont think its creased, just wrinkled.
I'll keep your ideas on hand and thanks Fredrick.
Mike.
So I drove to Lowes to scoop prices and stock on the different materials to use for the repair and DUH me, I forgot to take any measurements. I dash home for lunch and thankfully, 1 full 4x8 sheet of material(s) will do.
But I noticed there is a slight bow to the 1x aluminum square tubing used as the frame. Not very obvious and maybe 1/2 - 3/4 inch sag in the center. Maybe from peeps walking on the roof or maybe just fatigue.
So, not sure if I want to try to fix it. My fear is if I try to bend the tubing back up it may damage the roof edge seal. Another option is to sister in either additional 1" square tubing or even 1" x 1" angle iron for perhaps a more rigid support and still maintain the correct depth for the insulation. It's at the front, not too noticable inside or out and I didnt measure the exact sag.
AS long as water don't pool on the roof.
I would try stretching it out in the sun. When you put on a new Jeep top its full of wrinkles...and then after about a week of being stretched out in the sun all the wrinkles go away. Just a thought.
Kev
Can you post a pic of the vinyl? Hm?
Just for you Fredric. Pics of the vinyl. When I unrolled it Samantha Jane had to check it out and she insisted i post that pic as well. :laugh:
Ok, that's what I wanted to see. Do what Kev says, stretch it out in the sun, not too long though. Barring that, use a heat gun and roller while it's laid out and roll it smooth. Do NOT hold that heat gun too close or for too long. :)
Sun or the lower heat of a hair dryer was what we were thinking. I first had it unrolled and spread across the couch in the coach where it had some sun and warmth and it relaxed quite a bit.
I appreciate the idea(s) gentlemen.
Only JDexper responded to my question about taking the sag out of the roof while I had the ceiling down (I checked - it does not. The coach has enough rake toward the front there that any water rolls down the front clip) so I decided to go ahead and reinforce those three ribs. I bought 3 - 8' sections of 1x1 1/8" thick steel square tubing and plan on sistering those in along side the exisiting aluminum rafters. I think if I bolt the steel to the aluminum in the center, then carefully and slowly raise the sag up with a hydraulic jack until the ends tuck up to the decking then bolt them in there it should do it without affecting the edge seams since the middle should raise with little affect on the edges. Should resolve the sag and add strength in that roughly 4' wide area above the cab section. The foremost and rearmost rafters are double tubed and they are still straight.
Pictures to follow of course.
Groovy. I had no suggestions as I have absolutely no experience in the framing dept. Hopefully your idea will work. It sounds like it should with no problems.
Good Luck!
A little progress. I cut the steel to fit and put a coat of paint on them. I thought if moisture did get back up there the paint would hold off the rust some and not leach through and be seen.
All the old staples and foam residue has been removed and I've drilled the steel for 5 bolts to sister them in. I'm ready grab the bottle jack, 4by and 2 x12's to begin lifting and bolt the new rafters in.
Hey Old R&R make sure you pick a strong spot on the floor or use a large plate to spread the pressure Dont want to punch thru the floor ! Frank
Yup. Ive got the engine cover right in the middle so I'll be putting down some 2 x 12s to spread the load. Shouldnt take too much effort to raise.
Ok. The steel is in. I didnt think about the close space to drill and even my right angle drill was too big. Off to Lowes and found a small right angle driver adapter that worked like a champ.
I've got pics but too tricky to post from the tablet. I'll put those up tomorrow. Nice level ceiling now. Next is the pink stuff then the 1/4" plywood.
The vinyl looks to be in good condition. As mentioned already, an application of Saddle Soap or Lanolin will soften the vinyl back to it's original softness. Then you can lay it out in the sun on a sheet of plywood prior to installation to remove the wrinkles. Some wrinkles are normal, and can easily be stretched out during installation. A hair dryer can be used to help in the process. I would not use a heat gun unless you are very familiar with one.. one oops and you have ruined it. Another alternative is pinning it from a clothes line and allowing it to hang in the sun.. the weight will pull the wrinkles out.
Alrighty. Pictures as promised in no particular order.
And don't laugh too hard about my redneck jack and 2x4. It was close to the right length and I didn't want to fool with cutting a nice 4x4. If I had another person they could of pushed the existing framing up by hand. Wasn't much effort required by the jack. If you scroll up then down you can see a slight difference between before and after in the sag.
A limit of 4 images per post so here's the other 3.
Redneck jack? Thats the way we would have done it and not thought twice about it. It's looking good.
Thank you ma'am.
I got the pink foam board up tonight and it was the hardest part.
Between my wife telling me to do it one way, and Coachmanm500 texting to do it another, i thought it would never get done. Plus the mastic I got wsnt really rated for ceilings and i ended up having to drive short drywall screws in to keep it in place until it set. Just wasnt tacky enough to stick. Once set up its rock solid though.
The plywood is next but it will have to wait until next week. Betty is going out this weekend for our first of the year woods/trail riding in the buggy. Party on dude.
Pics tomorrow.
Shoot! The jack thing works for me. Well done. Looks good. :)ThmbUp
I dunno watchur talkin' 'bout... W%
Yes Fredric. I had to call you to let you know I had enough help...... N:(
Pic of the pink stuff installed as promised.
See, after reading this post, I am now looking at my godawful brown ceiling and thinking, "I can do this. I have a bottle jack. I can get Fredic to tell me how to do it."
I HATE this cruddy looking ceiling. I was thinking beadboard would look nice. . .
After the generator gets fixed. . .
It never ends. :'(
Welcome to The Ill Never Get It All Done Club !! And if you do get it all done you will start some God awful project like installing a Diesel engine or Fuel Injection Frank W%
Our ceiling was sagging from a previous leak so I had no choice.
If you mean beadboard as in paneling that might be ok. But true bead board from what I'm thinking is a hard wood product like tongue and groove flooring. I'd think twice about that. It weighs alot, you'll have trouble installing it over your head (another problem I had with the foam board) and even more so, all that weight vibrating and bouncing up and down while moving might not be a good thing.
Most here either recover with a vinyl material or simply paint what is there if there's no scaring or visible damage.
Plus I discovered a few things about how Tiffin made these older coaches. I originally said it looked like it was built from the inside out. The plywood you see in the first images is not the roof decking. There is a gap between that plywood and the underlayment for the roof. All the wiring is run in that gap. Also, when the frame was tig'd up, the inside ceiling 1/4" plywood was laid over it, then that thin layer of spray foam insulation was added. The foam was what was holding the 1/4" plywood in place. I'm going to have to do some thinking about how I"m going to secure the new ceiling plywood in place since the pink stuff isnt strong enough to support the plywood. The staples on the edges were 1/2" shot directly in to the aluminum frame. I might go that route. What ever I do I have to keep the smooth flat finish because the foam that's under the vinyl isn't thick enough to hide many imperfections. I don't want to go to all this trouble to have a nice ceiling only to have it flawed by ripples and divots from screws or staples.
Whenever you start looking around for something to do . Best to just get a bottle of Jack (Daniels that is) Drink about a third anyway you like And whatever you thought needed done will look Marvelous !!! :laugh: Frank
Hey - we're in Kentucky so our's is bourbon thank you. We live a county or so over from the Kentucky Bourbon Trail (google it). I gave up whiskey when I moved from Tennesse to Kentucky. Both very wise decisions.
Wow, looking good! Have you gotten the vinyl all flattened and smoothed out yet?
Can't wait to see the finished work..
Fredric
I did a write up about motorcycling on the bourbon trail! I love that area. . .although drinking the samples is NOT conducive to keeping the motorcycle upright. N:(
My ceiling is covered with brown carpet. . .so not sure I can paint it. Am thinking of pulling all the carpet off, but not sure if I would be creating a massive redo. What is under this carpet? How is it attached? If I could get rid of the carpet, I would gladly paint.
I don't believe in Hell, but if there is one, I am SURE that it would include PAINTING. . .
Under that carpet is the board it's glued to, after that there is insulation.
I lucked out, my ceiling carpet is an off white. Push up on your ceiling, but not too hard and you will feel if it's been wet at anytime. It will feel spongy as if you could poke through it with your finger.
Got any pics of the finished product?
Me? No. Its not finished yet. Same as when you saw it I think.
We have everything we nedd except warm weather to finish kiddo.
I thought you had posted some starter pics?
Edited: for bad taste. My apologies.
I did. I posted the link in z other thread.