Okay...I could have put this in several locations...it kind of fits in with some of my previous posts, and in with other posts about this convert and others.
But it would get lost in my post about Golf Cart batteries...and doesn't really apply to Redneck's posts about Powermax Boondocker converters, so here's a fresh thread about the topic.
In November, getting set up to boondock for the winter, we added 4 golf cart batteries to our RV, a Powermax Boondocker Converter, 100 amp unit with 3 stage charging, and a very simple battery voltage meter, which will eventually get replaced with a battery monitor.
We bought the Converter from Randy at www.bestconverters.com (http://www.bestconverters.com/) , listed on our member resource list, and very highly recommended.
I modified my compartment, and set up the new converter, and it functioned FLAWLESSLY all winter long, charging my batteries to full with only 2.5 hours of generator run time a day...and sometimes not even that much. It was supplemented by a Kyocera 65 watt solar panel.
All was well for a while, and then the converter abruptly died about a month ago. Plugged into shore power, for now reason that anyone can figure out, it just pooed the bed.
Since I was very busy, it took me almost a month to get around to taking the old one out and shipping it back. When I did, Randy had me the new one in 4 days! Outstanding!
So today it arrived, and I installed it. Since the compartment was already set up, installation was a cinch, and I had it back in in less than 20 minutes.
I followed the instructions to the letter.
First, prepare the compartment...it needs airflow to keep cool, and a relatively dry and dust free/dog hair free area...already did that with the one that died, so I moved on to the next step.
Bench test the converter. Plug it in and read the voltage. It should read 13.6 volts with no load...and it did!
Next, bolt/screw it down. Don't hook the wires up yet or plug it in to the 120 volts.
Disconnect the positive lead from your batteries.
Disconnect the 120 volt power supply.
Hook 8 gauge wires up to the power panel from the converter.
Hook up an 8 gauge ground wire from chassis to converter.
The previous two steps were already prepped and ready and waiting from my last one.
NOW hook the positive lead back to the batteries.
THEN plug in the converter to the wall outlet.
Done.
And I am now reading a blissful 13.2 volts!
I've been keeping my batteries charged continuously with an external charger, checking the water every few days, so they were close to fully charged already. Since 13.2 volts is the float/maintenance voltage, its reading exactly what it should!
And don't be afraid to buy a Powermax Boondocker because I got a faulty one. Apparently, in all of the thousands sold, mine was the ONLY one that has gone bad so far! My luck, eh?
Easy install, and a great converter. And Randy at BestConverters is awesome!
They are a small American business, and fellow RVers, so if you need a new converter or other electrical component, I highly recommend them!
And they stand behind their product!
Kev
I think the link above should be www.bestconverter.com , NOT bestconverterS.com (no "s" on the end).
Tommy
Good catch, Tommy! I'm almost as bad as Ed Brady when it comes to typos...lol!
Its working flawlessly since I put the new one in. Excellent product, and excellent company.
Kev
A quick revisit to this topic: One we touchdown in Carolina in a couple of weeks, I'll be moving my Powermax Boondocker converter from its stock location WAY far away from the battery bank with its skinny factory wires, to right up and close and personal to my battery bay, about 3 feet or less away from it. And increasing the wire gauge to the biggest ones that will fit. At 100 amps I should be charging my battery bank a LOT faster. I suspect logically that I'm getting crazy voltage drop from how far away it is, at least a 20 foot wire run, and how skinny the factory charging wires are, which are at best 8 gauge and look more like 10 gauge to me. One of the reasons I suspect this? I hardly ever have to add water to my batteries, even though I am constantly draining them down to 12.2 and then recharging them. Fast charging goes through a lot of water...but even at 100 amps, they react like they are only being slow charged, it takes at least 3 hours to charge them, and they rarely even bubble.
This is my first step. Move the converter as close as possible with the heaviest wires possible.
If that doesn't make a drastic improvement, I'm thinking of investing in a Xantex or the like inverter/charger. Gas is expensive, and my Onan isn't exactly efficient! It burns about a gallon an hour with the AC on, and not much less than that just charging the batteries.
The final solution if a Xantrex doesn't make a heck of a lot of difference is to buy a small Honda quiet genny for the sole purpose of battery charging when boondocking when the AC isn't needed, which is our entire winter vacation of over 2 months.
Kev
Thanks for the update. It's so important to have evaluation feedback after a change is made!
I've used Xantrex on boats, RV's and service trucks for my former company.
You pay for quality as needed, and you receive the quality you pay for.
Highly recommended as a product line.
Not cheap, but you do get what you pay for and expect for your money.
Terry
Another thing that makes me think its simply a matter of location and proximity of my converter to the batteries (a 20 foot 10 gauge wire run...geesh!), is that, not once since the install have I ever seen my battery voltage gauge read above 13.2 when charging on the converter alone (solar turned off). Solar alone I've seen 14.2 plus on a good sunny day...but never more than 13.2 coming from the converter. I think its too far away and on too small a gauge of wire to get proper feedback from the battery bank, so I'll be moving it soon and use heavy gauge as I said. I've only let my battery bank get down to 12.0 volts once by accident (I'm pretty religious about not letting it get below 12.2), and still the converter only put out 13.2 as a charge voltage, when it is supposed to be a 3 stage charger.
After I move it, and if I don't notice an improvement, I'll contact Randy over at BestConverter again...surely I can't have another lemon, eh?
Kev
My PD9265 goes through all ranges (14.2, 13.6, 13.2). Of course it is only 2ft from battery. Additionally, to prevent battery boiling, the converter will only produce a maximum amount of amperage that the battery bank can accept which can be lower than the rated capacity of the converter. That is typically only 25% of the battery bank size (400AH x 25% = 100 amps). So, if you have a 200AH battery bank and a 65 amp charger, it can only put out 50 amps max (200AH x 25% = 50 amps). I believe Kevin's battery bank is bigger than 400AH. Now when the converter is the only source (no solar or alternator) and you have multiple devices on, the boondocker or PD92xx converter should jump up to 13.6VDC even if the battery is not discharged. This indicates the converter and not the battery is supplying the load. Note: a few lights will not cause that to happen as there simply is to small of a current draw (not enough voltage drop). The converter jumps up to 14.6 (14.2 for PDxx) if the battery has been drained down to around 12.2 or 12.3 at rest (unloaded). Battery voltage drops under load which is not the same as battery voltage at rest. All battery State of Charge (SOC) reference tables are based on a battery at rest, not a battery under load so do not confuse the 2 when measuring battery SOC.
Dave
100 amps on a 10 gauge wire!!! For 20 ft at that? You are lucky you did not have a fire! I was reading last night with one small spot light over my bed and a Fantastic vent fan on high and the converter kicked in and made a noticeable difference in the light and fan. Once I turned everything off you could hear the convertor fan running for about 15 minutes and then it shut off. I am plugged in to shore power. That is with a 45 amp Boondocker.
Yep. Its more like 8 gauge, but no better or bigger than that...and it is literally 20 feet away if you take into account the twists and turns the wire run goes through to get to the battery bay.
I'm moving it in North Carolina, since I don't have time to do it here...but it will get done lickety split, and I'll let you all know how it works from there.
Kev
First I didn't understand what you are doing. You are running your generator to recharge your batteries ?
This is probably a good Converter which you got there. But for a boon-docking setup I was thinking about how not to run the generator at all ? Why do you not install more solar panels ? Or conserve more energy ?
You've got 400ah at 12v or about 4800WH - which are nearly 5 KWH and you are not running your A/C from the batteries - what are you doing with all that energy ?
I don't need this much energy in my whole house ! Mabye the Converter is fine, you are just sucking to much energy out of the setup constantly.
Mother nature does not always provide us with plenty of sun everyday. Occasionally, we get several days of clouds. Additionally, depending on location and setup, solar may only allow the ability to recharge up to 80% capacity. It is not unusual to have to bring the battery system up to 100% charge every month or so to ensure the batteries are well maintained. Given that in Kevin's situation, he has 110VAC available at a faire and he uses the converter to keep the system charged up so he is not always just boondocking. He is simply making sure all of his components are working correctly.
If one has 400AH then to prevent premature battery failure, you should restrict your usage to only 200AH (50% capacity) of that 400AH.
Dave
And being that where we are boondocking right now, in full sun with no shade...SURE we are getting the solar input (705 watts flat mounted with a Morningstar MPPT 60 amp charge controller), its been HOT here in southern Ohio...until the last few days in the 90s and humid. So we HAD to run the air conditioning for us and the pups. Which means the genny HAD to be running for several hours every day. The temps have just dropped considerably and we haven't had to the run the AC...but still have to run fans since we are in full sun. The solar can't keep up with our power usage (blame Patti...lol!), so we have to run the genny to charge the batteries via the Boondocker. But its so far away from the battery bank, and on such a small gauge wire, its not putting out its full capacity of 100 amps for quick charging, so its costing me a heck of a lot in fuel costs. My theory anyways. I'll let you all know if my theory is correct when I relocate the converter to right next to the battery bank in the next few weeks.
Kev
Maybe it's because of my German heritage, I think about conserving first.
Sure for the A/C - over 90 you can not live without it. I'm in Florida and we have 90s every day year round :P
Even if you are not using half off you capacity it's still it's still 2,5kwh + the energy you are not charging and using directly from the panels. Good setup by the way.
Battery maintaining is important.
But without A/C ? Have you got an electric stove ? A Plasma TV ? I'm curios were all this energy is going. A good Fan is about 6w, so even if you run them 24h a day that's just about 12ah. We just got over the weekend with just one working old 115ah battery.
A lot of the power usage is that Patti likes to watch television, so if we are home during the day, the inverter is on (2500 watt modified sine wave el cheapo unit from Flying J) and powering the flat screen TV (Its an LCD flatscreen, 34 inches or so), the satellite receiver and Tailgater, the DVD player, etc. And of course the 2 laptop computers. The Fantastic roof vent fan is almost always on as well.
Also, my panels are flat mounted on the roof, so even though they are rated at 705 watts total, the most I've ever seen them put out is around 250 watts. Sometimes a little more, sometimes a lot less. Depends on where the sun is in the sky, how we are parked, and what shadows from roof stuff are falling across the panels.
I'm sure my cheap inverter isn't the most efficient thing in the world, so I will eventually replace it with a good unit...but I want to try moving the converter first and see how that works out.
Getting Patti to use less power is pretty much out of the question...lol! So I have to figure out ways of charging the batteries faster with less fuel.
Kev
What about a wind turbine? I know they're pricey and some people say they're not efficient but going down the road or if you're in a windy area might help. Install it on a pole or something so you can remove it quickly due to tree limbs or whatever.
Northern Tool has selections and usually some kind of sale.
You are running all this stuff at the same time all day long ? That's an explanation.
Okey first of all - most devices this days have a magical button. It's called OFF. So if you watch TV, you are watching TV - Laptop is off, DVD Player is off. Even better, just unplugged them or get a plug with switch.
If you are watching DVD, the Sat receiver/Laptop is off.
If you are cooking - everything is off
if you are eating - everything is off (better for the relationship too W% )
It's only a learning procedure. It takes about 3-4 Weeks with the new rhythm and then the brain doesn't even thinks about it doing the old way anymore.
Humans are not multi -tasking enabled devices. Just do one thing at a time.
Did you think about getting a DC/DC converter for you Laptops ? They are cheap. So you could shut down you inverter from time to time.
I think you've got a decent setup there, it needs a little tweaking (long DC charging cables are really bad) and some more explanation from the installer (you) to the user (Patti)
Sebastian
LOL! I try...but getting Patti to remember to turn anything off is a challenge. To keep her happy, I just let her do her thing, I turn things off behind her, and will continue to explore ways of making boondocking with a powerhog more efficient. Hey...sounds like the title of a good book...Boondocking With A Powerhog.
Kev
Smart man Kevin ;) Very smart
Yeah, that would be cool book, write it, sell it - be rich. I could get my wife to participate with the deal that she gets nice things of half the money we safe.
One question. Why two 6volt batteries rather than one 12volt golf cart battery?
Dave....Dave... ;)
12 volt golf cart battery? I thought all the golf carts were 6 volt batteries. I think cost vs. longevity is the answer.
They come in 6&8 volt. You can get 12 volt golf cart batteries but they're not as powerful or efficient as two 6 volts.
Ok so if you put two 6volts together can you charge them with a regular Auto Zone 12 volt battery charger or do you need a special golf cart battery charger. I'm still trying to figure out what's the best move. Sorry guys.
We have six 6 volt golf cart batteries in our battery bay. Wet cell. 3 pairs are wired in series to create 3 12 volt banks, which are then wired in parallel to keep the voltage at 12 volts. HUGE amount of amp hours...but Patti wants to run whatever the heck she wants to run, like the TV, vacuum cleaner, spot cleaner, etc., and I can't fault her for it. She has agreed to follow me all around the country with my Peter Pan syndrome, so the least I can do is make sure she has all the comforts of a home base...thus I strive to make our system more and more efficient. ;)
Kev
Hi Kevin! Mind if I ask what amp hour and brand/model your batteries are? Sorry to sorta birdwalk the conversation, but like TJ I am trying to see what the best configuration might be. I travel with people with medical equipment, and don't want to run the generator constantly.
Interstate golf cart batteries. Almost as good as Trojans and WAY cheaper.
Kev
I've recently did a lot of research on golf cart batteries for my golf cart and found that the mid range priced ones are just as powerful as the Trojan brand. As long as you maintain them and watch the charging rate the boondocker will work great off of any brand.
Just doing the same research,
Costco's Interstate 6V are about $78 around here, and I would get Trojans T-105 for $91 + $24 Core charge if they can not exchange against my old Deep cycle.
So without anything to exchange the Trojans are $38 more expensive per Unit. Simple Math for two Trojans you could get 3 Interstate.
But no idea if Costco want's anything in exchange.
The core charge on the batteries is a federal EPA thing and pertains to all battery sales. For the most part they do not care what kind of battery they get back, as long as it is an automotive style battery. The EPA is trying to keep them out of landfills. I have a bunch of them sitting around but I have found that they sell for more at the scrap yard then I get for core charge. Some places will not sell you a battery without a core though.
Nice Winny;)
Nice Winny;) To answer a question you keep asking ...... :D If you hook two six volts in series you get 12 volts. That means hook the frame to the negative terminal of the first bat. Next hook the positive terminal to the negative of the second bat. Next hook the positive to the wiring harness. 12 volts. Just don't hook up both positives together or you get 3 volts. Using this info you can hook up as many batteries as you want and still get 12 volts
Two 6's in parallel will give 6 volts not three. No combination can cut the voltage below the lowest battery.
That's not correct. Two 6s in series is 12. Two 6s in parallel will drop the voltage in half. That's why my stereo doesn't catch fire. Its a matter of resistance. That's why you can't just hook up a bunch of 12 volts in parallel. Its why you use 6s in the first place. To boost output while keeping 12 volts. Sorry sir but I respectfully disagree
Quote from: acenjason on September 21, 2014, 02:53 AM
That's not correct. Two 6s in series is 12. Two 6s in parallel will drop the voltage in half. That's why my stereo doesn't catch fire. Its a matter of resistance. That's why you can't just hook up a bunch of 12 volts in parallel. Its why you use 6s in the first place. To boost output while keeping 12 volts. Sorry sir but I respectfully disagree
I coin a popular phrase on TV.....that's not how it works.....disagree all you want but yer
rong Voltage
In a parallel circuit the voltage is the same for all elements.
V = V_1 = V_2 = \ldots = V_n
Cells and batteries
A battery is a collection of electrochemical cells. If the cells are connected in series, the voltage of the battery will be the sum of the cell voltages. For example, a 12 volt car battery contains six 2-volt cells connected in series. Some vehicles, such as trucks, have two 12 volt batteries in series to feed the 24 volt system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Series_and_parallel_circuits
Sorry
Quote from: acenjason on September 21, 2014, 02:53 AM
That's not correct. Two 6s in series is 12. Two 6s in parallel will drop the voltage in half. That's why my stereo doesn't catch fire. Its a matter of resistance. That's why you can't just hook up a bunch of 12 volts in parallel. Its why you use 6s in the first place. To boost output while keeping 12 volts. Sorry sir but I respectfully disagree
Sorry you a 100% dead wrong. Two 6VDC batteries in parallel only equal 6VDC. The reason people connect batteries in parallel is to double the amount of amp-hours available.
I have four 12VDC batteries connected in parallel. Still has a 12VDC output however, rather than 100AH of energy at 12VDC, I have 400AH of energy at 12VDC.
Dave
I stand corrected. Feel stupid :'(
Learn, and move on Grasshopper.