Started the tear down this weekend. Finding some dry rot and wet rotten wood. I expected that on a 40 year old coach but I know it could have been a lot worse. I'm also planning on a roof structure replacement like what handier man did.
The before pics
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC02934.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC02935.jpg)
I started by removing the fridge, dining area and couch. Then the fridge cabnet and cabnet over the dining area.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03015.jpg)
Then I removed the cabnets over the drivers area.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03018.jpg)
Then I started stripping the old luan off the foam. Once I found the right technique, it wasn't too bad.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03016.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03036.jpg)
Then I pulled the dash out. There was rot on sidewall right at the edge of the dash. I knew something was up because the dash was not solid on the driver's side when driving down the road. I wanted to clean up the electrical system anyways and the best way to do that is a complete disassembly and reassembly. There was 40 years of splices where additions had been added then removed but the wiring had stayed behind. Little things like electronic ignition had been added but there were wires spliced together by twisting, folding back and using electrical tape. Not for me, I want to enjoy my trips, not falling victom to the stereo type of the old broken down motorhome on the side of the road.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03025.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03039.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03040.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03033.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03035.jpg)
OMG! If I ever tried that...I would just keep dismantling the whole thing because it would never run again.
HOLY COW!....KEEP THE PICTURES COMING Hm?
"Then I started stripping the old luan off the foam. Once I found the right technique, it wasn't too bad."
What Technique did you use? Hm?
I used a stiff paint scraper. Once the fresh luan was started it would come in sheets. It was the half rotten wood that was a little more trouble to come off. I can get some close up pics of how I used the paint scraper later this week.
:)ThmbUp Yep! that would be a big help as a lot of folks will probably doing a similar project so any information you want to give will be a big help. As well folks that wouldn't take on a project like that May after seeing how you do it. Thanks.
You are going about the repairs correctly. When you are done you will have a rig you can jump in and go anywhere anytime without troubles. (Though that will never happen) If its made by man it will break down. Sooner or later. But you will now have the odds on your side that it will not be a major problem. way to go. Frank
I think you are doing what we all would like to do, but lack the intestinal fortitude to tackle it, let alone the skills.
JD
Looking forward to this thread. Keep the pictures coming.
Worked on the Brave some more. Got one of the corners stripped down. It's amazing how far gone the plywood was on the side of the dash. The mirrors also fasten into this area so they were only attacted to the outer aluminum skin.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03047.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03049.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03048.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03051.jpg)
Looks like this may have all started with the CB cable coming through the wall. The wood right above the cable is fine.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03050.jpg)
I also found the pin holes in the aluminum that I've heard about.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03052.jpg)
Although there are places that need repair, other places still look new under the luan.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03053.jpg)
This is the edge of the paint scraper I'm using. I run the angled edge along the foam and that helps the blade float over the foam and not dig in. It will still dig in if forced but it tries to float more then digging in.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03055.jpg)
More this morning. I wasn't planning on rebuilding the nose but I couldn't ignore it.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03056.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03059.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03058.jpg)
I pulled this section out as a whole so I could cut a new piece by the foam to go back as a whole.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03060.jpg)
This my seem like a lot of work but it's just wood and sheetmetal with the occasional supporting metal brackets. I can't wait to feel how solid this rig will feel on the road.
It's starting to look like one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" projects. Hm? Keep the pictures coming you've almost got me convinced to start on mine.
Holy cow your giving me flashbacks! :P
As TJ said, we love pics!!!!
I am doing a lot more work then I planned but it will be worth it to have a solid rig. I might have found the root cause for the way my dash was moving while on the road. The 2x4's that attach the sidewall to the chassis frame was rotten right by the driver's seat. This was probably letting the coach body float a little and with the steering column bolted to the dash and chassis frame I could see the movement in the dash.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03062.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03063.jpg)
I've been using my project I worked on over the winter to make runs to Home Depot. At 27 mpg it's a lot better then running back and forth with the truck.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03061.jpg)
I love the truck. :)rotflmao
Once the tear down is complete the project gets a little more enjoyable when the new material starts going back.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03068.jpg)
It was amazing how much wood was gone and the body was still holding it's shape. You can see the old vs the new. I don't know if this was all one piece new but it will be today.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03066.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03067.jpg)
Progress for today.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03073.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03079.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03080.jpg)
Originally there was wood installed directly behind the siding where the mirrors attached. My Brave came with truck mirrors that attach above and below the window so I added wood above the window to attach my upper arm too. There is no deflection in the mirror arm now. So nice.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03082.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03083.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03081.jpg)
Great stuff. What plywood did you us and what glue. Fantastic Stuff. Thanks. :)clap
I used Loctite PL300 foamboard adhesive. I just used standard plywood and for 1" I glued two 1/2" pieces together. So far that has only been in the nose. I think the only other place it is used is in the main floor.
What did you use for pinholes in the aluminum ? On my roof repair when i had the roof peeled back to replace the rotted wood and crumbled styerfoam I used very sticky aluminum tape on the underside. Then when all reassembled a double coat of Cool Seal finished the roof on the side panels i just dabbed them with silicone. Not real pretty but the correct repair with fiberglass,putty & refinishing would require a lot of time. Frank
I put silicone on the inside of the aluminum at the pin holes so when everything was installed it would surround the holes and squish out to the outside.
More work today. I'm moving some of the modules that were hanging off the back of the engine to the inside under the dash. I got some good shots of what the corners look like before I tear into them. I figured I was this far so I pulled the doghouse to clean and re-seal it. The sealant was hard as a rock and brittle.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03116.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03117.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03118.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03119.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03120.jpg)
Boy :)clap if any of our newbees ever wanted to know how to rebuild their rig your shore giving us the low down. Well done. Keep the pic's coming. A picture is worth a thousand words. Well done.
Do not forget that the cases for both the voltage regulator and ignition module have to be grounded to the engine/frame in order to operate properly. Make sure those items are accessable once the dash is back in. Ballast Resistor is known to have a short life span.
Make sure the distributor pickup cable that goes to the ignition module is not routed near any plug wires or noisey signal cables. It is a very low level signal that will make the engine run real bad if it picks up interferring noise.
Be sure to maintain the central charging system distribution method. Helps prevent low level voltage throught the system.
Pre 1974 electrical system routed the charging voltage through the amp gauge. The amp meter can fail leaving you rig dead. New style dash uses a the more modern shunt resistor approach, You should change over to a shunt ampmeter design and add a voltmeter gauge. A much more effective and safer approach.
Dave
Grounding, yes. That's why the marine fuse panel is mounted close to the modules. I wanted to find a good grounding buss bar but found this fuse panel with a ground buss bar plus I can have a clean source for extra power. I will probably keep the charging system stock. I have been inspecting and re-soldering the high amp wires for the charging. I have also found some bad splices, like where the turn signal switch was replaced. If I ever did have a failure I will have a generator and battery charger to limp home on. I will probably create a twisted pair with a shield for the distributor pick up since I am lengthing it more then four times. The ballast resistor was still working but a little worse for wear. The one mounted is a new one.
The pictures of the turn signal splices
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03092.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03093.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03094.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03095.jpg)
Now looking at the alternator wires. This solder junction is what ties the fuse panel, alternator and battery (through the amp gauge) together. This solder splice didn't look to good in that the solder didn't penatrate all the way through. I also didn't like that there was a small gauge wire tied in also.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03096.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03098.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03101.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03103.jpg)
The dash is now stripped and ready to be recovered. You can see it has the original vinyl that was painted.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03104.jpg)
Thinking more of your comment on the amp gauge I might look for a shunt type. I understand now that if the amp gauge gets an open there is no power from the battery on ignition circuit to engage the starter.
Made some progress last weekend. Got the right side together like the left. All I have left to do before the dash goes in is mount the heater unit and recover the dash. Turned out both blower motors were bad. No problem as my local NAPA stocked one and will have the second on Friday.
Stellar, absolutely out standing. By the pictures I have to say you do excellent work. Nice job. Keep the pic's coming. :)ThmbUp
i will be doing a very similar repair to my '72. the rot is in the exact same spots as yours, and i think i am gonna need to yank the dash and go all the way, as you did. thanks for starting this thread and posting pics. i will start a thread on mine at some point later in the summer when i begin the project. first the rig is gonna get a engine and drivetrain refurbishment at my mechanic's shop. i am also adding 4 wheel drive to her so i can take her on the beach oversand. then i will gut the interior and go from there.
Got the dash in this weekend. I am not completely happy with the install but it will have to do. Durning this rebuild process I have kind of figured out the original assembly process that would have taken place at the factory. I have been doing it 100% backward because everything is a fight going back. I had to shoe horn the dash in, wasn't fun. I think originally the floor was installed, then the brackets that hold the dash, the dash, the front grill area, then the hood sections, then the walls. If I were to do it again, I would keep everything loose and assemble it all at once. I have been doing it in sections because I don't have a carport so after the weekend progress I would have to button it back up so it wouldn't get wet if it rained. I am going to build a carport for it before the roof comes off.
Now for some pics of the dash recover. This is a before.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC02934.jpg)
Freshly pulled.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03039.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03040.jpg)
Hardware stripped.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03104.jpg)
Old vinyle stripped.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03391.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03392.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03393.jpg)
New vinyle installed.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03394.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03395.jpg)
And installed into the Brave. The wiring is still in progress.
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03402.jpg)
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss60/tmackx/Winnebago%20Brave/DSC03403.jpg)
Quote from: WillingtonPaul on June 17, 2011, 12:12 AM
i will be doing a very similar repair to my '72. the rot is in the exact same spots as yours, and i think i am gonna need to yank the dash and go all the way, as you did. thanks for starting this thread and posting pics. i will start a thread on mine at some point later in the summer when i begin the project. first the rig is gonna get a engine and drivetrain refurbishment at my mechanic's shop. i am also adding 4 wheel drive to her so i can take her on the beach oversand. then i will gut the interior and go from there.
I recommend assembling everything back at the same time. I had everything buttoned up and screwed down before the dash went back in and to make the window trim fit I will have to cut it. The dash is in that tight.
I was lucky with mine, the engine and trans runs strong. If you go 4X4 you need a winch on the front and a cosmetic intake snorkle (just for looks). That would turn some heads. Y!
Thanks for the reply. I removed the front bunk and am doing some demo inside around the dash. Then it goes to the mechanic. I am not sure how bad it will be, but when i fully tear into it I will start a thread on it with pics.
How hard is it to take the windows out and put them back in? Is it just all about making sure the wall thickness stays the same after the interior rebuild? And the dash really holds things together up there, doesn't it? It is all steel?
The windows are not bad. Once you remove the inner trim the only thing holding them in is the sealant. Be carefull when pushing them out as the sealant is tough and will pull on the aluminum siding. The thickness isn't really a problem. The inner side walls are luan just like what is available today. Most of the thickness in the walls is the 1 1/2 inch foam core, however there is more wood up front. There are several combinations in a couple areas. They used a combination of 3/4 plywood and 3/4 foam or two 3/4 plywoods glued together or the main 1 1/2 inch foam core depending on the strength needed. Originally they had two 3/4 plywood at the original mirror mounting area below the window. My current mirrors mount above and below the window so I added wood where I needed. Look close at the original paneling, I removed back to an existing joint so I had an easy straight edge to butt the new panel up against. You will find the rotten wood is hard to strip off the foam and the 100% good wood comes off the foam easy and clean. If it hasn't been physically damaged, count on your foam being in good shape. I had wood that was completely rotten/falling out and the foam beside it looked and felt good.
Yes, the dash is all steel. When I removed the dash I noticed some of the screws that are at the base of the windshield frame did not penetrate the dash and just went between the dash and front hood skin, doing nothing. I had to have someone push in on the window frame to get it over the dash enough to fasten them together. If the windows were out it would make it a lot easier as the natural angle of the screw would put the drill tilted forward out of the windshield opening.
very helpful tips, thank you. i don't need to put in new windshields, but i would like to. one has a chip and the other (the drivers side) has a deep score in it from a time when the windshield wiper must have come off and the aluminum windshield wiper frame scratched it. i guess i will do everything all at the same time.
like you, i do not have covered storage large enough to house the rig while i do these repairs. i guess i may need to set up some type of temporary framed tarp system over it while i work on it.
my roof is very sound. the previous owner has it re-covered in 1987 with a very thick gauge aluminum, and added the AC unit at the same time. i have the receipt for it; the new roof cost $1400 in 1987 to do. but man, is it loud in there when it rains ! and i want to add a skylight in the bathroom and vents in the front and rear, so i think i am gonna strip off the metal skin, re-check plywood, cut in some new rough openings, and then re-cover with rubber roof material. again, this would be easier under garage roof, but i ain't got one !
D:oH! There's to old sayings I follow when working on my motorhome. " The road to hell is paved with good intentions." and " If it ain't broke don't fix it." If the roof is sound don't mess with it a good roof on one of these old girls is worth it's weight in gold. :)ThmbUp
Update-
After several weekends of fighting with the electronic ignition to get it running I gave up and bought the original distributor for it. I set the point gap, dropped it in, static timed it and it started right up. I hate that it beat me but I was ready to move on.
Last night I bought a 5kw Onan out of an early 80's winnie. It needs some fuel work but it sounded good running on brake clean.
I'm getting close to starting on the car port for the Brave. When thats done I'm taking a week of vacation to work on the roof. I will take lots of pics.
WIsh you had said something. Electronic ignition is fairly simple.
Dave
I had been conversing with the mopar forum. I was getting very frustrated because it ran fine when I pulled the dash out and I couldn't get it to work after going back. I know it's something I did and I can't figure how it was running. I kept all the parts in case I want to revisit the electronic ignition in the future.
Most anything you need to know about the Mopar ignition is on this thread:
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=3424.0 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=3424.0)
I also made a pdf of the thread located here: http://www.mediafire.com/?qmwzwjgdeim (http://www.mediafire.com/?qmwzwjgdeim)
Dave
That thread was done very well. I see everything was mounted to the back of the engine. I guess that would make sense so Dodge could deliver a running chassis for the OEMs to build on. It probably was a case of situational blindness that got me but I was fed up after buying a new ignition switch because I thought I had a massive voltage drop across it. Turns out that is how the switch is suppost to work and I was reading the voltage coming back across the resistor from Ign2. I don't know how the module is suppost to get voltage if Ign1 is shut off while cranking. Mine was somehow because it ran when I bought the darn thing. It's running now so I'm happy.
I dropped one of these in mine a few years back.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Pro-Electronic-Distributor-MOPAR-SB-273-318-340-360-/390293828615?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5adf533407
And a HEI version...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chrysler-Mopar-HEI-Distributor-318-340-360-50-000-Volt-/120765698702?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c1e32528e
Was stupid simple too, just pulled all the old crap out, drop the new one in and time it. I used the old coil, although they recommended not too.
The Dodge Ignition control module gets the voltage to pin 1 via the .5 ohm ballast resistor connection (from I2 voltage) when the switch is in the start position. That is plenty of voltage for the module.
Both of the distributors Ibdilbert proposed are based on a GM ignition control module (the hump on the outside of the distributor body).
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll120/BaileyDave/PROCOMP/ProCompPC7007.jpg)
They do not use a ballast resistor.
The only thing I do not like about the Pro-comp units is they use plastic mechanical advance mechanisms. I bought a used one off EBAY and one of the plastic mechanical advance pieces were broken.
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll120/BaileyDave/PROCOMP/ProCompPC7007012.jpg)
Pro-comp does not provide replacement parts and is not real supportive of their products after purchase. Given these are basically sold as hot-rod distributors, I find it very odd that they do not provide any recurve kits for the mechanical advance. Additionally, the vacuum advance is not adjustable. If you just want a stock replacement with who knows what advance curve then it is a good alternative I suppose.
Dave
Yeah, I wouldn't buy one used on ebay, they are only 70 bucks new, and for the most part are considered throw aways. Cheap enough its not big deal to keep a new one in the trunk.
For me, it was a GREAT alternative. When I bought it I was worried about the advance not being right, as you figure these are intended for cars, not heavy RVs.
That being said, I figured for 70 bucks it was worth the gamble. 5000 miles later shes still running like a champ, runs much better than before and gas mileage is better than most. There are a few things I look back and say I would do exactly the same given the chance, and this is one of them.
Thats the beauty of these old rigs, there are many options, for many people. I'm cheap, so I pick cheap options. W% :laugh:
Nice thread, im redoing my brave as well, but your going above and beyond me..well done. You'll know that rv like the back of your hand by the time you get done! keep the pictures coming!!
Do you have any updated pics of your Reno? We bought a 70 brave this past fall and have been slowly dismantling most of it. Would love some tips!
Last post was 2013. Not likely to get anything more on this, but there's tons of other reno blogs here with all kinds of photos and info!