Sent: 7/27/2008
Does anyone have any ideas or opinions on the injection of HHO gas produced by water to increase gas mileage? My son has been experimenting making a reaction chamber to separate hydrogen and oxygen from water using positive and negative steel plates connected to the battery. He says that I should try it on the motor home. Is this for real?
Colin
Sent: 7/26/2008
Yes, it is for real. The technology has been around since the 1950's, government sponsored of course so it hasn't been brought into the economic limelight since fossil fuel is a mega-money factory for the already filthy rich and they intend to bilk us for every penny until it's a matter of no other alternative... but that's another issue...
There has been much in the media lately about this due to the exhorbitant increase in gas prices. More and more individuals are researching this option and finding that the technology is not difficult. Anyone can build a hydrogen generator.
In fact, these so-called hybrid vehicles being produced by the the major auto manufacturers? They're a farce to placate the general populace in so much that we will believe alternateive fuel technology is still in progress so those with substantial interest in the oil industry can still milk the cow while seemingly be taking the high road toward alternative fuels...
bull... we don't need fossile fuel gasoline at all... haven't for decades. Not only can you use a hydrogen generator to augment your gasoline... you can actually run totally gasoline free on hydrogen.
That's all I'll say about it since the Fed wouldn't appreciate a large scale consumer knowledge that we don't need to be enslaved by their money mongerings, they can't control or make money off it in any way, it would reduce the oil kingdom to a land of paupers, and I don't want the MIB showing up at my door.
However... the technology is there. It is real. You can do it yourself and tell the oil magnates to suck dinosaur deposits, never needing to buy a single drop of gasoline again...
Those who know can do what they want with this or you can resource it yourself.
Sent: 7/27/2008
Help me out here. It looks like you burn gasoline to run the motor to turn the alternator to make electricity to produce hydrogen to put back in the motor. Did I miss a step?
Jim
Sent: 7/28/2008
over on my chevy truck forums thier was a big debate over this.. got alot of info.. but with all the videos i saw on this idea, none of them were driving down the road.. every one was idling.. im interested in this myself.. but im not paying 80.00 for a quart mason jar with a couple of wires in it...
Sent: 7/28/2008
And I quote :
QuoteYes, it is for real. The technology has been around since the 1950's, government sponsored of course so it hasn't been brought into the economic limelight since fossil fuel is a mega-money factory for the already filthy rich and they intend to bilk us for every penny until it's a matter of no other alternative... but that's another issue...
There has been much in the media lately about this due to the exhorbitant increase in gas prices. More and more individuals are researching this option and finding that the technology is not difficult. Anyone can build a hydrogen generator.
In fact, these so-called hybrid vehicles being produced by the the major auto manufacturers? They're a farce to placate the general populace in so much that we will believe alternateive fuel technology is still in progress so those with substantial interest in the oil industry can still milk the cow while seemingly be taking the high road toward alternative fuels...
bull... we don't need fossile fuel gasoline at all... haven't for decades. Not only can you use a hydrogen generator to augment your gasoline... you can actually run totally gasoline free on hydrogen.
That's all I'll say about it since the Fed wouldn't appreciate a large scale consumer knowledge that we don't need to be enslaved by their money mongerings, they can't control or make money off it in any way, it would reduce the oil kingdom to a land of paupers, and I don't want the MIB showing up at my door.
However... the technology is there. It is real. You can do it yourself and tell the oil magnates to suck dinosaur deposits, never needing to buy a single drop of gasoline again...
Those who know can do what they want with this or you can resource it yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Strong statements... provide facts to back this up.
I have tried (2) different Hydrogen setups on our motorhome with poor results.
By poor, I mean the first coil immersed setup boiled out the deionized water. The second setup actually made our fuel economy decrease. 12.78 to 10.06, on the same highway-same weather conditions.
Have you actually tried this on YOUR motorhome? If so, what were the scientific results? Before and after?
I think you need to to provide some factual information before and after comparisons before making such strong claims.
Jay
Sent: 7/28/2008
ZR91,
I agree totally with the ~ Phåråoh ~ on this one. I've done a lot of research on this myself over the years and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if the entire oil market was nothing more than a conspiracy for the rich to get richer.
This idea of adding hydrogen to the gas vapor sounds promising, providing you gain more HP than that lost at the alternator for the electrical requirements.
Thomas Edison once said, "I have not failed 1,000 times. I have successfully discovered 1,000 ways to NOT make a light bulb."
By what I have read from you, you could say you have found only two ways not to implement a hydrogen generator.
------
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction." - Albert Einstein
Sent: 7/28/2008
BTW,
"By poor, I mean the first coil immersed setup boiled out the deionized water."
I'm confused at this statement, who uses a coil to split hydrogen and oxygen? I would think it would just cause heat, and do exactly as you said, boil the water and give you nothing but water vapor, and that would give you poor gas mileage.
Some of the hydrogen generators I've seen use plates or probes, not a coil.
Wheres Jack when we need him? Hes an expert at this kind of stuff!
Sent: 7/28/2008
Ibdilbert,
So you agree? How wonderful for you. A million or so people also used to agree that the earth was flat. Did that make it flat?
This is not a question about the court of popular public opinion.
I am not trying to win a popularity contest.
Rather, I am lookinf for some FACTS, some EMPIRICAL data to prove that this can actually work, in one variation or another.
As I have alreday mentioned, I have indeed tried this in it's (2) most popular offerings at this point.
At the risk of sounding realistic, if ANYONE feels so strongly that this actually works-I would expect some real data to prove it !
Jay
Jay,
Interesting, You went with the 2 most "popular" set-ups, but you didn't give any links to them or any info on them either. Omitting that info, my guess is that you chose the 2 cheapest, most-popular set-ups, which is what made them so "popular" in the first place... and they were simply not true, working versions based on the actual process. So, you got what you paid for and are pissed about it, and therefore, the entire theory is bogus. However, now... the automotive market is actually producing prototype cars with the system as an augmentation and further developing cars which run on it entirely. But, of course! Since the whole idea is winning a popularity contest with the general public, the major automotive manufacturers sure as hell don't want to give the potential profits over to someone else in the private sector, and, If the major automotive companies can make them, then... huh... I guess it can actually be done.
Well, since you want "empirical" data, you'll get plenty of it very soon, from the members who have done the most research and have the most personal experience with it. Both positive and negative. The end result will only be seen as the technology develops, and since it is a plausible theory, it will develop.
Sent: 7/28/2008
ZR91 sums it up here:
""This idea of adding hydrogen to the gas vapor sounds promising, providing you gain more HP than that lost at the alternator for the electrical requirements.""
If anyone can get more energy out than they put in to any system, I'd sure like to invest in their company. I do understand the chemistry, and I know better. Best we drop this as a scam.
Jim
Sent: 7/29/2008
Did you know every vehicle is already equiped with a hydrogen generator?
Its called a battery and when its being charged it produces hydrogen! So if you check out the "plans" most of them are just simple batteries. sorry to burst any bubbles (no pun intended) but its never going to replace gas yet , but maybe someday
Sent: 7/29/2008 11:55 AM
I would just like to add one thing to this post.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Stan+Meyer&search_type= (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Stan+Meyer&search_type=)
clyde9
ps. you may have to copy and paste it in your browser.
You are right ontheroadagain7, it is very much that simple.
Sent: 7/29/2008 12:37 PM
I think I will add one more thing. I am a broadcast engineer like the guy in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLj46OR_nA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yLj46OR_nA)
copy and paste the link in your browser.
There are so many ways to produce hydrogen, it isn't even funny. The technology has been around since the 1700's. Those skeptics out there should take a simple chemistry course in your local college before claiming it to be a scam. I'm Jack Smith, I have 4 degrees, and i support this message!!
clyde9
Sent: 7/29/2008 2:17 PM
And Sadly, here is the result of Mr. Meyer's doing a good thing.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread209316/pg1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread209316/pg1)
clyde9
Sent: 7/29/2008
For more information, scientific research reports, and empirical data, as well as finding out what happened to the originator of this info, Google: Stan Meyers.
Lots of very interesting info.
Sent: 7/29/2008
Here's an interesting forum following the story, be sure to read as much as you can:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread209316/pg1
Sent: 7/29/2008
here is another link to Wikipedia, concerning fuel cells.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell)
Sent: 8/9/2008
On diesels, commercial setups have been around for years for over the road fleets with mileage increases in the 3-5% range.
I personally know of one setup on a 5.0 F150 (fuel injected) that went from 16-17 to 20+ on his normal sales route.
I have not seen anything yet on carbed vehicles. No way to adjust the fuel ratio to compensate for the hydrogen enrichment so I don't know if it would not just create an overally rich mix if enough extra air was not introduced with the hydrogen.
My vote is for 11.5 to 1 compression and run propane. Fuel does not go bad, about half the cost, burns clean and not far from being a CNG compatible system from the regulator forward.
Sent: 8/10/2008
A friend of George Norrie on Coast to Coast AM has been experimenting with this. His results...
He has decreased mileage.
FWIW, they are going to cont. to work with it.
BooBoo
Sent: 8/10/2008
http://savegasusewater.com/
I know a few people that have converted, they say it works.
You have to change your MAPP censer. I'm going to try it on my S10.
Timmy
This is a topic that I am very familiar with. I have been researching it for about a year now. I have seen many things and I know what I am going to do now, regarding HHO (Brown's) gas. I had a buddy who ran his Volvo 240 DL diesel on straight water. The problem that he had was he did not create enough gas to run. He could not get the RPM's up high enough to go very fast. When I looked at his setup, I noticed two advantages that George has over his Volvo. One is that I have way more room under the hood. I am moving the battery over in front of the heating element on the front passenger side so that I can add my hydrogen generator in front of the radiator. For this, I am not going to use a Mason Jar that he used. I am going to use a 5 gallon fishtank.
Seems odd? Well, I will explain a bit further. I am going to divide the tank into three separate compartments. I have already cut the lid, and two pieces to divide the tank into three parts. I am using Amazing Goop brand sealant to put these pieces into the tank and securing the lid. Each of the three sections will have electrodes going into them to a stainless steel twisted pair wire that is securely wrapped around rectangle plexiglass pieces.
Now, I have my tank. How am I going to create enough gas? Well, when I was replacing George's alternator from the PO fiasco, I noticed that on the pulley setup there was an extra pulley that was doing nothing. There was no belt on it. So, I am creating metal brackets to hold another alternator. So, my original (regular) alternator is doing its job of running the electrical systems and charging the battery. This new alternator is only being used for the six electrodes that are going to my three sections of my tank to the stainless steel wires. When you send current through a metal spiral, this is electrolysis of water. This will create hydrogen gas (H2) and oxygen gas (O2).
Now, on my tank, all my compartments are going to have hoses with check (one way) valves on them so the gases cannot come back into my tank apparatus. These gases, being lighter than air (the hydrogen is, anyway) will travel up these tubes which lead directly to the butterfly valve on the carburetor.
The final piece is on top of the carburetor is a Tornado air flow apparatus that forces the air down into the carburetor to be consumed on the spark of the motor.
I have no idea what to expect as far as MPG and performance, but, I will be playing with the mixture until I get it right.
THAT is my biggest project with George right now.
I did a lot of research on a system that would actually work on a 454 since we go on such long trips, and it doesn't seem cost effective even for us and the high mileage we rack up. A usable system would cost about 1200.00 to start...yeah you can go homemade, but the amount of hydrogen you have to use for a big block necessitates a premade system that will endure and hold up to constant use. Then you need to install another alternator just to run the HHO system since even a high output alternator can't run your coach and your HHO genny...not enough amps. So now you are talking about 1500.00, plus the cost of distilled water and potassium hydroxide, which needs to be changed out frequently.
If you spend this much and get it all dialed in a perfect, the most of a gain you can hope for is 20%, and a more realistic number would be 10%. So at 7mpg, a 20% gain in efficiency brings your gas mileage to 8.4 mpg, and a 10% gain would bring your gas mileage to 7.7.
You would have to drive a LOT of miles, more than we do, to justify and pay for the system with the fuel saved...and by then, the system and plates are worn out and you have to replace the plates etc. They don't last forever.
Add to that the aggravation of yet another system to maintain and monitor, and to us it seems a total waste of time and money.
I'm sceptical to say the least, and we are always trying to find ways to save dollars on long trips. I'd rather invest my money in those little triangle thingies that truck drivers use to stop turbulance...I think it was Froggy who added them to his rig? You'll get about the same gain in fuel economy, they cost a lot less, and you don't need to maintain them.
Kev
Kev,
I completely understand your skepticism. I held the same dubiety myself. However, I have so far, spent about $240.00 to get my system installed. I will be getting pictures posted after all the rain stops. And, the volume of H2 gas I am collecting should give me a 50% increase in mileage.
First, though: Who is selling you something for $1,200.00? I cannot even seem to find a system that expensive. And, since the technology is simple, the homemade variety is one that I can tweak to fit my needs.
As for the distilled water, I am not going to use distilled water. That is something I wondered about from the beginning. With the electrolysis, you are trying to create ions from the H2O. Why would you use distilled water? I am going to use salt water, as it readily precipitates the formation of ions from the saltwater solution with a low amp current.
I figured to be using only a 2 amp circuit to create my gas in three separate compartments. This way I will be maximizing my hydrogen creation with little cost on the system.
My goal is 25 mpg with George. I will post the results so everyone can see if it works. I will also be posting the pictures so everyone can see how I did it. (The cost of $200.00 does not include the additional belt and additional alternator)
As far as: " I'd rather invest my money in those little triangle thingies that truck drivers use to stop turbulance...I think it was Froggy who added them to his rig? You'll get about the same gain in fuel economy, they cost a lot less, and you don't need to maintain them."
Do both?
Bill
Quick update. During installation, after moving the battery over, and installing the new floor to hold the battery on, then, I was installing the fishtank. THEN (a little late, but, nonetheless) I was thinking... How am I going to remove the top to change the water, add the KOH, redo the stainless steel wires, clean the apparatus... Well, I figured out I cannot, if I seal the lid on... So, back to the drawing board, but I will keep ya updated.
to all, I have built a wood gasifier and ran a tractor on wood smoke by down drafting the smoke through the fire itself, this process takes the smoke( which is moisture and carbon, splits the moisture into three gases hydrogen, oxygen, and carbonmonoxide). By filtering the gases, which now have disassociated polarity due to the intense heat and lack of oxygen in the process of gasifing, you can mix the gases with outside air induce them to your motor and it will run. (FEMA has plans on their website for a wood gasifier) I built a wet cell hydrogen generator and with some fine-tuning was able to start and run my Dakota pickup with the fuel-pump relay in my pocket! the best application I have seen is using a hydrogen drycell as can be viewed on you-tube, type in hydrogen drycell and learn! We as a people are just beginning to get our heads out of the sand and realizing there are options, we just have to get over our fears and our apathy and learn the other ways. I am a machinist, an engineer, and an inventor, and a farm-boy! yes we can!
Hey Bill,
The reason for using distilled water as opposed to salt water or just tap water is to prevent calcification of the plates...the more calcified they get the less gas they produce. Also, salt is extremely corrosive to all components, and even though in theory all salt should be left behind, small trace amounts can be sucked up by your engine and then corrode the internal components. An example of this is cars along a coastline. The salt in the air, which shouldn't be there but is, rusts out a coastal car much faster than an inland car.
Potassium hydroxide is added because its the least corrosive electrolite that is inexpensively and readily available, and calcifies the least on the plates.
I found that expensive system by following the link to systems that someone added in an earlier post and found that nothing was listed for a 454 big block, but that I could contact the company with custom requests. That is the price they quoted me when they wrote me back a few days later.
Kev
Here is an exerpt that that company sent me when I inquired about thier systems:
"Hi Kevin, Hi Patti,
Yes, that IS refreshing to have an earlier model motorhome to work with.
We have a couple of units that work well with your engine size.
This link below is one of our fancier systems.
http://www.advancedhho.com/product-p/es80sys.htm
Check it out and we can discuss several approaches to best fit your needs.
Warm Regards,
Rich Prescott
www.AdvancedHHO.com"
Kev
I built and installed, operated and increased MPG from 9.5 MPG to 12 MPG But i have since removed the complete syestem. (its for sale) Due to corrosion of internal engine parts and exaust syestem. UNLESS all are stainless steel ,Valves are highly susceptible, and when you drop the head of an intake or exaust valve major headache ,and expense. Way more than any savings in fuel unless you can attain 100 MPG or more, expect a repair bill of 5 to 10 K for an engine and exaust syestem. Look it up Frank
Ouch! That is expensive. I guess you'd have to install stainless steel valves and exhaust first. That would be quite pricey. Very good info to share! Thanks, Frank!
Quote from: Froggy1936 on July 12, 2010, 02:48 PM
I built and installed, operated and increased MPG from 9.5 MPG to 12 MPG But i have since removed the complete syestem. (its for sale) Due to corrosion of internal engine parts and exaust syestem. UNLESS all are stainless steel ,Valves are highly susceptible, and when you drop the head of an intake or exaust valve major headache ,and expense. Way more than any savings in fuel unless you can attain 100 MPG or more, expect a repair bill of 5 to 10 K for an engine and exaust syestem. Look it up Frank
This is why the more expensive kits that are coming out have a "moisture" filter. There really should not be any water going into the engine, just the Hydrogen produced but there is no way to accomplish this without a separator. Farmers were doing this for years before it was accepted in the auto industry, but there was no way to judge the savings or power (their goals) of their huge systems.
"This is why the more expensive kits that are coming out have a "moisture" filter"
A moisture filter will not work at all. The process is kinda stupidly simple once explained. When sticking a set of probes into water and applying electricity, the probes will bubble and produce hydrogen and oxygen. The + probes bubbles will be pure oxygen, and the bubbles on the - probe will be hydrogen. You'll get twice as much hydrogen than oxygen. This is because H20 is, two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen. If you collect both of these gasses in the same container you make whats called "browns gas". Browns gas is HHO, or oxyhydrogen. The indirect product left after the combustion of browns gas is water vapor, that is what causes havoc on the engines.
Why these kits are not called Oxyhydrogen generators is beyond me.
As for water collection in the engine, that is why you have to use a bubbler. If you go directly from the generator, you will most definitely get water into the engine. I am installing a bubbler (or possibly two, if I get the valves to accurately detect the gas creation amount). This will keep the water from getting into the engine.
Maybe I'm missing something. How does the bubbler prevent water vapor after the browns gas ignites?
*Edit Added Content Below*
Doing some research I understand the function of the bubbler. It prevents a backfire from entering the generator and potentially detonating the browns gas being created.
BUT... I also found a few other sites that said it serves as a second function. One site said it scrubs the browns gas and removes any stray electrolytes. (That instantly makes me think... "It has what plants crave… electrolytes!") :laugh:
On another site that sells parts to make an HHO Generator says "It cleans the water vapor from your generator so that the vapors do not enter your engine. If the water vapors enter your engine it can potentially cause damage to your engine." Sigh, at least they call it what it is, an "HHO" Generator...
Obviously this site doesn't understand what they are selling. Browns Gas does not contain water vapor until after it ignites, then it creates water vapor, at that point its too late and is exiting through your valves and out your exhaust. Now I suppose its very possible to pick up some water vapor on a poorly created generator and pass it through your intake, but this amount would be minor compared to what will be created after the browns gas ignites. Also despite what these sites are saying, these so called bubblers wouldn't remove this vapor or remove electrolytes. Maybe one should separate the oxygen and the hydrogen and just pass the hydrogen into the intake, this would prevent the byproduct of water vapor after the detonation. Of course this would also decrease the total volume of gas being generated by 1/3.
Some quick facts. (based on a perfect world)
- It takes about 11 amps at 12 volts to create 1 liter of HHO per minute
- 11amps at 12 volts requires about 1/5 Horse Power
- 1 liter of Browns Gas contains about ~1.5 BTU of heat energy.
- 1 liter of regular gas contains about ~30,343 BTU of heat energy.
Now, on the other hand, I'm anxious to see someone actually make this thing work. I believe American Ingenuity is still alive and well. If someone believes the HHO Generator will work, by all means keep trying and experimenting till you get it right. If anything, it might lead to another discovery that might change the world.
Dilbert is completely correct about HHO gas converting back to water once ignited. Not ALL of it converts to water...thus the release of energy...but no fuel is 100% efficient, and the unignited hydrogen and oxygen converts back to water at the point of ignition of the rest of the mixture. Hydrogen and oxygen are phyllic, I forget the exact chemisty phrase, and they WANT to be joined together. Do this experiment...Take a glass bowl and fill it with water and an electrolite. Now take a beaker that is fitted with an airtight lid and remove the lid. Submerse the beaker in the bowl of water (the bowl has to be deeper than the beaker is tall) and flip the beaker over so that it is filled with water with the opening facing down. Lift it almost all the way out of the bowl so that it creates its own vacumm to keep it filled with water. Place two electrodes in the bowl under the beaker, apply voltage (keep it at 12 volts DC so you don't electrocute yourself...lol), and let the beaker fill completely with HHO gas so that it is bubbling up from under the rim. Lower the beaker back into the bowl without letting the gas escape and then reinstall the airtight cap. Remove the beaker from the bowl...it will now be filled with HHO gas. There will be some water droplets from the lid and the wet nature of the experiment. Mark down how many and how much water is in the bottom of the beaker. Set it on a shelf. Come back in a few days...there will be a significant amount MORE water in the beaker...because even without a catalyst, hydrogen and oxygen will bond back together into water. Now add a catalyst like combustion or extreme heat, and it happens instantaneously! If you don't believe that, then at your own risk you can repeat the experiment, but this time use a steel beaker and safety equiptment like gloves and a face shield, and then instead of putting the beaker on the shelf, take it outside to an open field and light a match...hold the preferable LONG match over the container and with a leather-gloved hand remove the lid and let the mixture ignite...WHOOSH! It won't explode per se because the opening to the beaker will be large enough for the flash to escape without exploding the beaker...but it WILL scare the heck out of you even with safety equiptment...lol! Its pretty dramatic. You'll notice if you didn't blink that a cloud of vapor puffs up with the ignition. Now look in the beaker...there will now be a noticable amount, like a few milliliters, of water in the bottom of the beaker and dripping down the sides...where did it come from? The ignition of the HHO mixture.
Going back to what Dilbert said, that water vapor now goes through your engine as steam, which condenses and converts back to water, contaminating your oil, and reacting with the steel and iron components of your engine and exhaust. Could it work with non-corrosive components like an aluminum block, stainless steel rods, bearings, crank, pistons, valves, springs, exhaust, etc.? Sure! But does the gain in MPG pay off the expense of a marine application engine? Not in a million miles! Add to that a constant change of oil or a separator added in the oil channels to keep the oil and water separated...or else your oil viscosity will change to the consistency of melted coffee icecream and you'll ruin even your stainless steel bearings and moving parts.
Seems to me a non-workable system for the long term unless a HECK of a lot of money is spent on the engine and the whole design in general, and then the system would never even come close to paying for itself.
But that gives me a thought...what if you could isolate ONE of the gases, or one at a time, and ignite them separately? TWO separate collectors from the water/electrolyte chamber. You could either expel one of the gases out of the engine compartment into the air...expelling the oxygen and burning the hydrogen would be by far the safest choice since oxygen itself isn't explosive, it just makes other gases more explosive...or you could come up with a valving system that first burns the oxygen, then the hydrogen, then the oxygen, then the hydrogen, etc., a rapidly moving valving system that keeps large amounts of the gas from ever accumulating somehow tied into the timing system of the engine...doable but extremely complicated...hmmmmmmmmm...something to think about. And would separately burning the gases amount to the same gain in MPG as straight HHO? Again...hmmmmmmmmmm...things to ponder. If I was independently wealthy and could play with stuff like this I'd be the first one onboard.
Kev
Thats What i said (short version). Also i did not mention blown Alternator belt Then Alternator then battery These syestems need a lot of amps P.S. I had a bubbler. Frank
Kevin,
..."what if you could isolate ONE of the gases, or one at a time, and ignite them separately? TWO separate collectors from the water/electrolyte chamber"...
This is exactly what is done. This is why there are two sets of hoses in the top of each jar. One above the positive terminal, and one above the negative terminal. One collects the O2 and the other collects the H2. The H2 is then fed into the carburetor, while the O2 is fed into the air. I am pretty sure that O2 sprayed out into the atmosphere. As for the current, I am only using 2.0 amps but I am sending the charge to 8 different collection points. This way, I am able to convert enough gas to make a difference. I am not sure how much of a difference it will make, but I for one, am going to be videoing every step, as well as testing the mileage before the apparatus is turned on, and the miles recorded, then, doing the same thing with the generator turned on to test the difference.
I am merely stating what I am doing. I do not claim that it is going to make a large difference, but the numbers will tell us. I can always hope for the best, and we (the family) are going to be driving about 30k miles this coming year, so, even a ten percent gain is HUGE.
If you are feeding straight hydrogen into the fuel mixture then I don't see it damaging the engine via water. But every commercial system I've seen, and every kit and plan I've looked at, feeds both gases into the intake. Thus the reason they are called HHO generators, or "brown gas"...meaning separated water into two gases being fed into the intake.
And looking more at the chemistry behind it all, feeding straight hydrogen into the mixture will only add a few more BTUs to the ignitable mixture. Proponents of the system write that the addition of the oxygen is what makes your gasoline burn more efficiently and reduces the emissions.
Kev
Let us know how it works out, Robert! The only way I can see it being workable without severely damaging your engine components with water vapor would be to expel the oxygen, and only use the hydrogen. And even then, small amounts of water vapor will form since the ambient air coming into the intake also contains oxygen, although it should be minimal, since most of that oxygen will be consumed in the combustion process.
Kev
The water produced by burning the hydrogen is irrelevant, whether it's burned by atmospheric oxygen or oxygen from the generator. The main products of combustion of any fuel you're likely to burn (gasoline, diesel, propane, natural gas) are carbon dioxide and water, so there will be water vapor in the engine in any case. That's why it's supposed to be bad for an engine to let it run briefly, without getting it warm enough to let the water escape as vapor instead of condensing in the engine. The small amount of water produced by burning a little hydrogen will have little effect on the total.
If water vapor is carried over from the generator, it will have no effect, except to slightly dilute the air/fuel mixture. If a mist of liquid water is carried from the generator to the engine, it could actually be beneficial. Water injection is common in engines running under high load, such as racing engines. Its main benefit seems to be to improve cooling,allowing the engine to run at higher loads( and burn more fuel). If the water mist contains an electrolyte, that's bad. The electrolyte will promote corrosion.
The more important issue is whether any of this is worth doing. If you can get more energy out of burning the hydrogen than it took to produce it, you have a perpetual motion machine. It just can't be done. Some of the companies selling these kits sidestep this basic fact by not claiming that the combustion of the hydrogen itself increases fuel mileage. Rather, they claim that burning the hydrogen somehow improves the combustion of the main fuel. At least this claim doesn't violate any basic laws of physics, but they're always a little short of details on how it works.