Classic Winnebagos & Vintage RVs

Topic Boards => Chevy - GMC Chassis => Topic started by: tiredtraveler on December 07, 2009, 01:46 PM

Title: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tiredtraveler on December 07, 2009, 01:46 PM
Hi here is my first question ?

Has anyone replaced the front air bags in the suspension of a p 30 Chevy chassis.

The left front is sagging and the left front shock is completely compressed.

How hard is it to change these and what is the best source for the air bags?

tiredtraveler
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Froggy1936 on December 07, 2009, 09:57 PM
Hi,  J.C. Whitney is now the distributor for Air Ride  Air Bags  If you order from them make sure you specify P30 Motor Home. Not P30 truck.   Frank
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tiinytina on December 08, 2009, 06:39 AM
don't even get me started on changing those airbags!!!!  $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@! ... If you can replace the springs that is what most are doing at this point. There is a p30 chassis yahoogroup with more info on it in their archives. You can search our database for the tale I wrote when I did it 3 years ago.

Tina
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Seon on December 08, 2009, 10:01 AM
I changed the front air bags on my '84 Chieftain back in Sept. I bought the Firestone #4100 bags thru Amazon at $85 delivered to my house.

In order to install the bags, it must be twisted to release the air, then the air valve is capped which leaves the bag deflated making the diameter small enough to "squeeze" the bags thru the hole inside the springs.  Problem I had was that when I twisted the bags, the bag didn't deflate enough to get the diameter small enough.
So I placed the top end of the bag between two 1"x4" pieces of wood boards in my bench vise then tighten to "sandwich" the bag in place.  Then I twisted the bag and once deflated, I capped the valve stem.  This deflated the bag leaving minimal air.

Next I made a soap/water solution in a spray bottle using it to "lubricate" the bag when inserting it thru the hole.

These bags greatly improved my steering "wandering" and the ride is lot softer.  At that point, I decided to install rear air bags which made the ride even better.

Installing front air bags is a chore but IMO well worth it.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Froggy1936 on December 09, 2009, 04:30 PM
Hi When i installed the air bags on the frt of my P30 I also used the soapy water solution then after getting as much air out of them as possible ( that is the hardest part) I used radiator hose clamps (with an electric drill and a socket) to squeeze the M/F small enough to insert into hole in lower a frame  as they pass thru the hole just remove the clamp and insert to the next clamp and so on Make sure there are no sharp edges on the clamps  Good Luck  Frank
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tiredtraveler on January 28, 2010, 11:35 AM
Finallt had warm enough weather to get those fracking air bags installed....three bloody knuckles and a whole lot of  $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@! later. talk about trying to shove 7 pounds of stuff into a a 5 pound sack. The old ones came out easy enough but putting the new ones in is insane :'( now to get ready for the journey south to Florida!! :-)
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tiinytina on January 28, 2010, 03:04 PM
I'm in awe only 3 bloody knuckles? I don't think I had a square inch on either hand that wasn't bloody, scraped, bruised, or mashed.... $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@! $@!#@!

Tina
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tiredtraveler on January 28, 2010, 03:14 PM
It only took me 2 hours to do, an hour and a half for the first one ...then my loving wife told me about soapy water (in the directions) and the second one only took about a half hour it just jumped in until the last two inches that I had to work in with a boxed end wrench like putting on a tire...I am sore in the shoulder from trying to push up while laying on my back that part kinda sucked.  Oh well hope the rear ones hold up til I get to Florida then i will replace them if necessary :)
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tiinytina on January 28, 2010, 03:39 PM
took me 5 hours by myself, soap, WD40, hot water....  snap ties, bench vice, vice grips... then again I tend to learn things the hard way! Actually glad no one but my dad was in hearing distance through the whole procedure!  $@!#@! $@!#@!  And  I think I made him blush!  If these go I'm going to put in heavier springs!

Tina


Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tiredtraveler on January 28, 2010, 03:47 PM
I did remind everyone in the area that I was a sailor in the past. I try hard not to yell at wife but sometimes she asks questions at the peak of frustration and word vomit comes outa my mouth (MUCH TO MY CHAGRIN).  I think that the cursing helps lower the stress...I think it beats throwing things losing tools and parts too.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Froggy1936 on January 29, 2010, 02:46 PM
I recently read that swearing DOES absolutly help complete difficult tasks  Frank
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: GONMAD on August 10, 2012, 03:29 PM
I just installed a pair on a friends Bounder P 30 & had an epiphany the night before & used a vacuum pump for refrigeration. If you pull a complete vacuum on the bag & as it is deflating try to work it into a hot dog bun shape & wrap the bag with twine or fishing line after it's collapsed & it literally slips in with NO hassle! It sure took a couple hours of cussing & twisting. I did mine a couple years ago & swore NOT to EVER do another. This was NEVER a popular job & now I have confidence to another if needed. The bag will have to be worked into shape by first warming it slightly in hot water. As the bag is collapsing have a friend with strong hands push one side into the other. You might have to bleed air out & in to aid in reshaping the bag to the hot dog bun shape. After you have wrapped & tied it off & installed onto the control arm just cut the line & install  the plastic end pieces, hook up the air lines & fill.  (I use 55 lbs in the front bags & 60 lbs in the tires) I hope this method works as good for you as it did for me & as always    C YA! GONMAD
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on August 11, 2012, 05:46 AM
We did ours last fall in North Carolina, and after reading all the adventures here on the procedure, it actually ended up being a breeze!

I warmed them up in front of a ceramic heater, coated them in dish soap, and twisted them as small as they would go, and they went right in!  It took me longer to get the old crusty ones out than it did to get the new ones in...lol!

I went with the blue Firestones.

I run 50 psi in the front air bags.  Sometime this year I'll be replacing all SIX shocks.  Yep, the trailing axle has shocks too!

Kev
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: HandyDan on August 11, 2012, 10:31 AM
I just replaced the four rear shocks on my Holiday Rambler.  The hard part was getting the wheels off as they weigh more than I should be playing with.  However, with my trusty shovel and floor jack, I'm getting pretty good at taking wheels off and putting them back on.  The shocks were no problem at all to replace.  It helps to have a ratcheting box end wrench set because the top nuts have no clearance.  Since I have the tag axle from Mor-Ryde I had to do a little research to find a compatible shock since the original is no longer available.  I went with the Monroe 34792.
When I replaced the front air bags, I did as others have done and heated them, sucked the air out, and used zip ties to hold them in the folded position.  Zip ties let me keep tightening them as I pressed them to together.  Then I just poked them up the hole, cut the ties and aired them up.  It wasn't as easy as it sounds but it wasn't the nightmare I thought it was going to be. 
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: HandyDan on August 11, 2012, 04:59 PM
Kevin,  Like you, I run 50psi in the front air bags.  That seems to work well. 
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on August 12, 2012, 06:55 AM
Hey Dan,

Thanks for that Monroe shock number by the way!

Kev
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: piorun on April 06, 2013, 03:29 PM
They are very hard to get in. It took me a whole day to put them in my rig. Try lubricating them with soap and water.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Stripe on April 06, 2013, 05:42 PM
50 in the front, 60 in the tires?  My tires say inflate to 100!  Am I missing something? Lol..

CMM500
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: GONMAD on July 03, 2013, 06:53 PM
Hello again,  Concerning tire pressure all the way around, I put 100 lbs in & MY GOD the ride was horrific to say the least! Then tried 75 lbs a bit better but I couldn't stand the harshness. I backed off 5 lbs at a time till I found a happy medium of between 70 & 55 lbs front & 70 rear with 75 lbs in the rear air bags & the front varies  with tongue weight on the trailer, too much air in the front bags made it steer funny. Less air put the front back down so as not to change the alignment under load. The mileage suffers a little but it's worth it. If your rig runs ok at 100 lbs & you can stand the harsh ride keep it the same but I once read that a trip at max pressure is like a 3.2 earthquake! I DO like air suspension
Just a thought I wanted to Share
  C YA! GONMAD
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: fleetmasterfred on July 03, 2013, 08:34 PM
I tried changing the air bags in the front of my coach but she won't go... neither will her mother!   

Sorry, couldn't resist.  Now I'll just go back to my new favorite RX site.  Please continue.     
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: pvoth1111 on July 10, 2013, 05:06 PM
I paid a RV shop to replace mine they used airlite bags? I think.   500 bucks installed...I could have done it myself I was at a RV park they had it done less than one day....plus I had them do the front brakes....and full lube job.

Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Tim Traveler on September 01, 2013, 12:04 PM
I replaced the front air bags in my '89 Allegro 28' class A with the Chevy P30 chassis.  Surprisingly enough, it wasn't too bad.  I jacked up the front under the K frame to let the lower A arms extend fully.  We cut the old bags out w/a Sawzall and twisted/pulled them out with Channellock pliers. 

For the new bags, like others have done here, we squeezed all the air out that we could and folded the new bags in half length wise, like a hot dog bun, re-installed the air valve caps, and zip-tied the bags in this shape.  We put the bags up through the bottom hole in the lower A arm, and when it almost reached the top of the spring, we stuck the upper cushion through the spring to protect the top of the bags. 

The whole job took a little over 3 hours.  Oh yes, before we cut out the old bags, we bored through the bottom of the old bags, right through the shrader valve with a 1" or 1-1/8th hole saw.  This enables the bag to squeeze out of the bottom hole better, and it also helps you to grab onto the bag with Channellocks. 

I purchased my air bags (Air Lift 1000 kit #AIL81560) from TruckSpring.com in Saginaw, MI for just under $100.  Shipping was rather quick and I'm happy with my purchase.  The instructions included with the bags are pretty helpful and straight forward.  I keep 50 psi. in the bags and it seems to work well. 
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Stripe on September 01, 2013, 06:54 PM
Quote from: cavecreek on July 10, 2013, 03:54 PM
I changed them last week and used the ride rite from air ride.I removed the front spring and place the airbag.it takes 50 minutes each side and you can check the shocks,balljoints and brakes as well.Use a solid roll jack .
You have to remove the caliper,the lower shock mount,tie rod end,stabilizermount and lower ball joint.

Rob

I basically did the same as Rob did,   http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,7759.msg36431.html#msg36431

Aside from the rain, it was pretty fun to do..
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: legomybago on September 03, 2013, 05:34 PM
Just did mine last Saturday.....I'm still a little sore from laying on the concrete!! and one bloody finger!!! Didn't really turn into a full on cuss fest like I was expecting....but not in a hurry to do again...I wrapped like hot dog and used zip ties....In the end on the 2nd one, I used a hose clamp to sqeeze the last little bit (like a piston ring compressor) the bag pushed on up...I also put on new front shocks. Looking forward to driving soon,.,
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: cncsparky on April 12, 2014, 11:17 PM
As far as installing, big help was the large pair of channel locks I bought recently.  Don't remember the size of them, but they are good size.  They were able to grip and compact the bag as it is rotated up into the hole.  I was at first worried that the sharp teeth on the pliers would damage the bag, but it didn't phase them  :)clap   At one point I could squeeze the bag and push it up through the hole.  Worked really slick.  Still a lot of work, not unlike a male form of child birth  :)rotflmao
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: kattkisson on April 14, 2014, 09:37 AM
It seems that this thread has been going on for some time so I will add my 2 cents worth.  I compressed my new ones as much as possible as described and greased them up.  The only thing that worked for me is to put multiple hose clamps on it and I jacked it through the hole with a small hyd. jack. Use a 1/2" or 3/4" pipe coupling to bridge the air valve. The hose clamps just slide down onto the jack piston rod as the unit slides thru.   
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: legomybago on April 14, 2014, 10:22 AM
I did the zip tie fold on the first one using spray soap....was a bast*rd. Next bag, I used the soap and a couple hose clamps, slid right in with the help of a dead blow hammer.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: treeman on August 20, 2014, 11:49 AM
I just had the front bags changed on my 89 p30, It made a huge difference in ride and handling.
The mechanic I brought it to has changed many, only took him a little over an hour for both sides
He only charged $150 bucks, he said it is very easy to do when you have a vacuum pump and lots of soapy water.  I used Air Lift.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: eXodus on August 20, 2014, 12:30 PM
If you are good Sams member  Camping world charges only $59 flat rate installation for installing airbags. Airbags reasonable priced around $100. So complete around $170.
And they check your coach for free.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: legomybago on August 21, 2014, 12:31 PM
Before I changed out my leaky air bags....if you came to a 45 mph corner, you better be doing 40-45!! With the new front bags, and rear set at 70 psi, I can cruise a 45 mph corner between 50-55 mph comfortably. Huge difference when traveling mountain hwy's. Your able to keep your momentum rolling along, and easier on your brakes.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: eXodus on August 21, 2014, 01:18 PM
but increases tire wear to drive a 45 corner with 55. Depends on the situation I guess. If the brakes start overheating and fading, sure I would wear the tires first. But on the other hands - brake pads a very cheap and relatively easy changed.  If you blow out a tire because of driving too fast on corners - this one tire is 200 bugs. One axle brake pads are what ? $35 ? You get a MH lifetime stock of brake-pads for saving one tire.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: TripleJ on September 25, 2014, 01:42 AM
Im not sure where to ad this, but i just did my front airbags also.  The old ones came out in pieces, so that was easy.  I used a mighty-vac vacuum pump to collapse the new ones, then zip tied them. 
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y77/smasheromalley/HR%20PICS/5C45047D-130A-4463-BB8B-441AD1461855.jpg)
They went in with little fuss.  The hardest part was first, figuring out how to do it, then actually working the top and bottom bag protectors in.

The top one I slip thru the coil with the bag halfway up. The bottom one I had to work in with a couple screwdrivers...
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: Old Toolmaker on September 25, 2014, 06:42 PM
There are lots of interesting ways here to stuff the air bag in through the spring but it really isn't all that hard to drop the A arm.  Pull the cotter pin, loosen and remove the nut, turn it over and put it back on for safety's sake and use a big drift and a hammer to loosen the lower ball joint.  No need to remove the caliper or the tie rod end.  You do need to unbolt the sway bar though.  Yeah, I couldn't squeeze the air bag in through the spring.

Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: BrianB on May 12, 2016, 11:59 AM
I have to say, I think changing these air bags is pretty easy. I disconnected the lower A-arm and took the spring out. A little more time maybe, but super easy.

I suppose though that some people don't have the big tools to do that. But if you do, spring removal is the way to go. I have maybe hour and half into both sides today changing mine.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tintin on August 31, 2016, 05:23 PM
I just received my Air Lift 1000 bags and I am not looking forward to this job. Reading the instructions it shows to install the lower protection disc. When I pull the old rotten air bags out there were only  upper protection discs present. The old air bags were black in color, so I assume those were the original ones. Is it critical to install the lower protection disc as it looks nearly impossible to get those in?



Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: EldoradoBill on August 31, 2016, 08:01 PM
Pretty simple to slip the disk in through the bottom coil before you inflate them.


I installed mine using a hand vacuum pump to get the bag as compact as possible, with the valve stem removed from the airbag, and copious amounts of liquid dish soap.


Bill
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: TerryH on August 31, 2016, 08:56 PM
Upper and lower discs provide you with a degree of puncture/ failure protection. Very important if you do not want to replace them again in the near future. Also are very beneficial for seating the air bags. If you do not drop the a arm, as posted lubricant and zip ties help a lot.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tmsnyder on September 01, 2016, 07:58 AM

I kneeled on them to get the air out, and rolled them over into a C shape like a poorly made Yule cake, then used hose clamps to squeeze them.  With dish soap they do actually squeeze up through the bottom of the A-arm.  Discovered the hose clamp method 3/4 of the way through the first one.  With the hose clamps I could squeeze about an inch away from the a-arm, then push that through, then move the clamps down, repeat. 


Did the first one, but forgot to put in the top washer.  There was no way to get it in there unless I wanted to cut out the brand new bag and buy a new one, and I couldn't get the bottom one in for that matter either.  I wanted them in but honestly I have no idea how someone could do it unless they drop the lower ball joint and pull the spring out completely.   In place though, I couldn't figure out how it could be done, there's physically not enough space to fit all three.


So mine didn't get the protective disks, I'm not losing any sleep over it.  With 60 psi, they have almost 2000 miles on them and no problems so far.

Quote from: TerryH on August 31, 2016, 08:56 PM
Upper and lower discs provide you with a degree of puncture/ failure protection. Very important if you do not want to replace them again in the near future. Also are very beneficial for seating the air bags. If you do not drop the a arm, as posted lubricant and zip ties help a lot.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: EldoradoBill on September 01, 2016, 07:10 PM
With the bag empty you simply pry up on the bottom of the bag through the coils with a blunt flat tool to give you space to slip it in. Same but down for the top. I seem to think I used a brake adjusting spoon to install mine (or something similar I've improvised a lot in the past year)
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: legomybago on September 01, 2016, 07:40 PM
Quote from: EldoradoBill on September 01, 2016, 07:10 PM
With the bag empty you simply pry up on the bottom of the bag through the coils with a blunt flat tool to give you space to slip it in. Same but down for the top. I seem to think I used a brake adjusting spoon to install mine (or something similar I've improvised a lot in the past year)
I did something similar to this...It's been awhile, I don't remember the details, but I do know I got the disks in....
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tmsnyder on September 04, 2016, 10:01 AM

There was no such space on mine, can't even see the bottom and top 1/4 of the air spring with all the coil springs in the way.

Quote from: EldoradoBill on September 01, 2016, 07:10 PM
With the bag empty you simply pry up on the bottom of the bag through the coils with a blunt flat tool to give you space to slip it in. Same but down for the top. I seem to think I used a brake adjusting spoon to install mine (or something similar I've improvised a lot in the past year)
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: EldoradoBill on September 04, 2016, 02:27 PM
Quote from: tmsnyder on September 04, 2016, 10:01 AM
There was no such space on mine, can't even see the bottom and top 1/4 of the air spring with all the coil springs in the way.
The chassis are all pretty much the same from the 70s through mid-90s, there is space, they will fit....


Bill
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: bluebird on September 04, 2016, 10:37 PM
Quote from: tmsnyder on September 04, 2016, 10:01 AM
There was no such space on mine, can't even see the bottom and top 1/4 of the air spring with all the coil springs in the way.

You do have to have it jacked up with the tire off the ground. I put the top disc in with the bag about 1/2 way in. The bottom one you will have to pry the bag up on one side to get the lower one in. Just don't use a sharp pry bar.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: BrianB on September 05, 2016, 10:23 AM
It's not really that hard to pop the lower ball joint and take the spring out. That's how I installed my airbags. I think it took me about 1 hour per side.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: tmsnyder on September 05, 2016, 07:08 PM

Might be the case in pretty much all them, but not true in this case. 

Quote from: EldoradoBill on September 04, 2016, 02:27 PM
The chassis are all pretty much the same from the 70s through mid-90s, there is space, they will fit....


Bill
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: EldoradoBill on September 05, 2016, 07:23 PM
As another mentioned, the rig needs to be jacked from the frame with the suspension hanging at its travel


Bill
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: TerryH on September 05, 2016, 07:29 PM
Relieves the compression on the springs - more room between the individual coils.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: enigma960080 on August 06, 2017, 01:19 PM
When I had mine done on my Super Chief (89 P30) Camping World put it on a lift  and used a  drill to 'grab' the old bags out of the coils and twist them out the bottom .... took about 30 seconds  each....
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: udidwht on May 13, 2022, 03:00 AM
Here's an easy method of installing them vs zip ties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ0H9I-1iWk
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: JonnyG on August 04, 2022, 09:06 AM
I just did mine last weekend and it wasnt as hard for me as a lot of peoples experiences. Removing the old bag was a bit tedious but no bloody knuckles or new curses. I simply took a sharp olfa knife and sliced everywhere I could along the spring top to bottom and was able to get some pliers in there and just start pulling it out and slicing where needed. Getting the wheel in the air was important as you dont have much room to work otherwise.

On the new bags I used a few large hose clamps, 2 4" and 2 3" and a cordless drill with 5/16" nut driver on the end. Spun the clamps as tight as they would go nearly and was shocked how well they compressed the bags, below 2" which was enough to slide it in the hole, i just put it in, release the clamp move it down a bit and compress again. The only catch was at the very end it was harder to compress and push in because the material on the bottoms and top is thicker and doesn't compress as well but doing like the others did with a non sharp object and work it in. I feel like the hose clamps are an upgrade from the nylon ties that everyone has been using and would save you all some trouble.
Title: Re: changing air bags on front suspension
Post by: eXodus on August 06, 2022, 06:19 AM
Thanks for sharing. 

That's a good way of tackling the ancient airbag replacement.