Classic Winnebagos & Vintage RVs

Topic Boards => Chevy - GMC Chassis => Topic started by: FarPoint on January 19, 2020, 08:41 PM

Title: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 19, 2020, 08:41 PM
The Warrior is pretty much stationary until March, and Iââ,¬â,,¢ve got it winterized, heated, covered, and de-humidified. I do a monthly start up to operating temp as well as ââ,¬Å"exercisingââ,¬Â the generator. Has new pugs, cap, rotor, wires, aircleaner, fuel filter, etc on the throttle body 454. And yes, a slight exhaust manifold leak (tick, tick , tick) at startup. And it starts great. Runs smooth, the fan clutch seems to be doing its thing.
After it warmed up I revved the engine a bit, and noticed that it bogged out. Curious, I pushed  the pedal to the floor (quickly) and it acted as if I was up against a rev limiter - but probably wasnââ,¬â,,¢t revving any more than 2500 RPM.
Tried again but pushed the accelerator down slowly, and it would rev as far as I wanted.
And it was driving great last time on the road.
Guess I should get an OBD reader.
Any ideas about what to check while itââ,¬â,,¢s in storage?
Iââ,¬â,,¢m good with throwing a few parts at it. Sensors?
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 19, 2020, 09:10 PM
Fuel filter or MAP sensor are the first things that come to mind but definitely don't start throwing parts at it without further diagnosis because that can greatly complicate things. I have seen a LOT of new parts right off the shelf that are bad out of the box and if you get one then you add another piece to the puzzle.Another thing that can cause this issue is a clogged exhaust, Critters can make a huge nest in the muffler and really jam things up.Have someone rev it up while you stand by the tailpipe, if it is clogged you will know it, it will sound like air being forced through a wadded up screen. Does this have OBD I or II? OBDII would be great for diagnosis.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 19, 2020, 09:11 PM
How long has it been sitting and how old is the gas? It could have suffered from Phase separation of the gas and that would not be good.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: circleD on January 19, 2020, 10:07 PM
I'm with Rick as usual. Narrowing down parts instead of just replacing what you "believe" is worn out. I had many new parts that I would have to take back several times to get one that worked.
Most of my issues after getting the motor just right was the fuel. So when I knew I'd let it sit for awhile I would keep the fuel level kinda low. I know there's some issues with that. But I would add 5 gallons of fresh gas when I did my weekly cranking up of the 454 and genny. That way the fuel stayed kinda fresh.
I messed up my first year and put 60 gallons in and cranked it monthly. The gas went bad before it got low and it ran like crap. So I had to pump it out and use fresh gas to get it running good again.
I even ran the motor straight from the red gas can with some spare hose to check the issue. It was.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 19, 2020, 10:56 PM
Thanks for the replys. The gas is about 3 months old - but itââ,¬â,,¢s (or was!) 94 octane and ethanol free Chevron.
I did change the fuel filter. As far as the OBD- Iââ,¬â,,¢m not sure if itââ,¬â,,¢s I or II.
I think GM changed in 1995. This is a 1996 chassis and badged as  1997 so did the mainstream changes all make it to this one. Dunno...
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 20, 2020, 09:23 AM
96 should be OBDII but it is anyones guess where they put the OBD port. I would look next to the steering column first and then under the lip of the dash next. After that maybe under the hood probably up high facing out.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 20, 2020, 12:57 PM
Up front, outside, and facing forward - wouldnââ,¬â,,¢t surprise me.
Iââ,¬â,,¢ll be under the dash a bit later hunting for my reverse light wire (to auto trigger my reverse camera),so hopefully itââ,¬â,,¢s there and in a clean protected environment.
I agree itââ,¬â,,¢s probably OBD II, but as itââ,¬â,,¢s right on the cusp of the change over - how would I recognize the difference between I & II ?


Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on January 20, 2020, 03:23 PM
I have a hunch it is a OBD1 system.   They delayed OBD2 entry on heavier weight classes for a few years.  Look at the ECM moules on RockAuto.com (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/chevrolet,1996,p30,7.4l+v8,1059735,electrical,engine+control+module+(ecm+computer),2896) and see which picture matches yours.  Then track down what that OEM version was.
OEM version 16197427 was a OBD1 ECM.  If I recall correctly the TBI models were all OBD1 based.  OB2 started using rail fuel injection.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 20, 2020, 04:43 PM
The number on the ecm is 16197427.
So- itââ,¬â,,¢s an OBD I.
Makes sense that the heavier duty chassis got the updates later.


Thanks - Iââ,¬â,,¢m off to the auto parts store to look at readers.

Hereââ,¬â,,¢s a pic of the connector. Not sure why itââ,¬â,,¢s sideways.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 20, 2020, 08:32 PM
You would need a vehicle specific OBDI reader. And you can get the same results by jumping pins in the connector and reading codes on the check engine light. OBDI really only controls the emissions side of things. If you really want to diagnose it look on Ebay for an old Snap on MT2500 scanner. It will come with adapters to hook into senders and should have somewhat of a database if you get the right cartridges.  You can also look for a MT2400 Vantage, I still use mine to this day as a DSO. You can use this to check individual sensors.
https://www.ebay.com/p/14035406014 (https://www.ebay.com/p/14035406014)


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2322090.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC1.A0.H0.XMT2400.TRS0&_nkw=MT2400&_sacat=0 (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2322090.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC1.A0.H0.XMT2400.TRS0&_nkw=MT2400&_sacat=0)
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 20, 2020, 10:53 PM
Thanks Rick. I went and grabbed one of those $20.00 GM cartridges that shorts out pins. Really just
Wanted the list of codes.
Thanks for the EBay links - good info there.


Rick - PM me your e mail and Iââ,¬â,,¢ll forward you some cool pics that shouldnââ,¬â,,¢t really appear here!
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on January 20, 2020, 10:57 PM
When I had a 92 Lumina APV van I used a Actron 9145 for OBD1 codes and sensor monitoring.  I also used a windows based software program called TunerPro (https://www.tunerpro.net/) however that has a learning curve which you may not be up too.  It did allow me to graph sensor data and zero in on a given area.  GM Dealers used the Tech2 OBD1 scan tool.  The Innova 3120 (https://www.amazon.com/Innova-BLUETOOTH-Engine-Battery-vehicles/dp/B06Y5MDLX4/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=gm+tech+2+OBD1+scanner&qid=1579578822&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzOExJOVJWNFZONDI1JmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjgxMDE0MUJSQ1laWUwxMThPVCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzc3NDY0MlNGMDBCQzNMWEQxTSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=) is one of the few scanners that reads both OBD1 and OBD2 systems.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 21, 2020, 09:31 AM
Quote from: FarPoint on January 20, 2020, 10:53 PM
Thanks Rick. I went and grabbed one of those $20.00 GM cartridges that shorts out pins. Really just
Wanted the list of codes.
Thanks for the EBay links - good info there.


Rick - PM me your e mail and Iââ,¬â,,¢ll forward you some cool pics that shouldnââ,¬â,,¢t really appear here!


PM sent
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 29, 2020, 03:04 AM
So - according to my mechanic buddy, that is an OBD II plug.
But according to the ECM part number - I have an OBD I sYstem.
The OBD I reader did not plug in.
How do I read this hermaphrodite system?

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on January 29, 2020, 08:24 AM
GM did used the OBD2 style connector on some OBD1 systems. The information here  (http://aldlcable.com/)should help you out.  The pin out and paperclip test is included there also.
Dave
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 30, 2020, 09:18 AM
Dave- Wow! Thanks. Ton of great info on that site. Looks like they can help with some of my marine projects as well.
Itââ,¬â,,¢s confirmed- I do have the OBDII connector, and according to numbers you gave previously as well as the Rock Auto site - an OBDI SYSTEM.
Got some reading and ordering to do....

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 30, 2020, 09:48 AM
Be sure to check your basics. Like the vacuum lines going to the MAP sensor for cracks or swelling. I don't remember if the OBDI still used a distributor advance or not but if so check to see it is working. And like I said before change the fuel filter and make sure you have good gas. Gas will go bad in a couple months without stabilizer and 6 months with it. If the tank is not full right to the top and you live in an area with high humidity then you can easily get phase separation in the gas if you are using normal pump gas with ethanol in it. This will happen with or without stabilizers.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on January 30, 2020, 10:24 AM
Rick- Iââ,¬â,,¢m planning to drop the tank and replace any hoses and possibly the fuel pump. Thereââ,¬â,,¢s not too much fuel in the tank, and I do live close to the water so may have a moisture issue. The tank has 94 octane ethanol free gas in it , but Iââ,¬â,,¢ll pump it out before dropping the tank and and see how much crud comes out.
I recently ââ,¬Å"rescuedââ,¬Â a couple of Honda quads from long term storage ( again - near the ocean) and they had been left with fuel in the tanks. If that mess was Phase Separation, I donââ,¬â,,¢ t wannna deal with it by the side of the road! Barely managed to get the fuel tanks cleaned out - all new fuel lines of course, and it took a machinist to help get the the carbs good again.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on January 30, 2020, 06:29 PM
Phase separation, the alcohol has separated from the gasoline.



(https://i.postimg.cc/W3d46f7h/Picture-001.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/62NwBcgX)


(https://i.postimg.cc/pT3L0Y0k/Picture-002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9Rt20THq)

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 02, 2020, 05:33 PM
OK- so far, so good. All the other garden equipment, quads, motorcycle, and outboard engines, that were put away with 94 Chevron are working well. Just spent the last 2 days firing everything up, and checking/ draining fuel. ( and a bit of roaring around!)
What Iââ,¬â,,¢ve drained out so far looks great. But Iââ,¬â,,¢m sure itââ,¬â,,¢s down on overall goodness.
Winnebago gets drained next.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: TerryH on February 02, 2020, 06:39 PM
I always use Chevron Supreme in my generator and pressure washer. Supposedly it is ethanol free, and about the only locally available fuel that is.

***GREAT photos, Rick!
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 09, 2020, 12:23 PM
Scary pictures Rick!
Iââ,¬â,,¢m now fully committed to dropping the tank as soon as I can.
The rain stopped for a bit yesterday so I crawled under and had a look.
I guess the tank was put in from above prior to the house going on. All the hose clamps are oriented with the screw heads facing up to the floor.
Looks like the hoses are OK- but Iââ,¬â,,¢m going to replace them all anyway.(after I hack my way through the inaccessible hose clamps) the fuel fill hose looks like itââ,¬â,,¢s same size both ends, (did I read somewhere that some are different sized?) so that should be easy.
I took a 1/2ââ,¬Â NC die nut and cleaned up the exposed threads on the mounting straps and shot a bunch of Aero Kroil at the nuts. Iââ,¬â,,¢ll do that a few more times before I try to loosen the mounts. As long as I can get the nut moving initially, the remaining 3ââ,¬Â of thread shouldnââ,¬â,,¢t seize.
I think Iââ,¬â,,¢ll also look at doing a bolt in reinforcing plate to strengthen the frame extension while Iââ,¬â,,¢m down there.

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 09, 2020, 04:08 PM
Good idea on the reinforcing plates, Be sure to extend them as far as reasonably possible so you can get at least four bolts in each side of the weld. With a 27 footer I wouldn't think there is too much extra frame added is there?  Did you see my thread on the easy way to drop the tank?


http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=13311.0 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=13311.0)
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 09, 2020, 08:59 PM
The photo may post sideways ( canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to figure that out yet)
The frame extensions are 26ââ,¬Â long, but itââ,¬â,,¢s gonna be complicated to add reinforcement. The spare tire carrier is a piece of channel that spans the frame rails - right at the joint.
Thereââ,¬â,,¢s already a small reinforcing plate ( rusty in pic ) welded to outside of frame rail, so maybe grind that off and add something substantial.
There are only two holes on the flange of the gas tank - and Iââ,¬â,,¢m not drilling any more!!
So Iââ,¬â,,¢m going to modify Ricks idea to lower the tank. Iââ,¬â,,¢ll use the two existing holes on diagonal corners with the redi- rod and a ratchet strap on the other diagonal.
Itââ,¬â,,¢s kinda what I had to do to lower the 100 lb spare tire without dropping it on myself once the retainer nut hit the end of the threads!


Yup - turn your screen 90 degrees clockwise to view correctly.
How do I prevent the sideways picture postings?

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: wae on February 11, 2020, 08:44 AM
I think the ideal way to reinforce the extension is to install C-channel inside the existing rail, but it does look like that would be awfully difficult in your instance.  One alternative would be to bolt some C-channel to the bottom of the frame and the extension, but that doesn't really thrill me.  Your best-case without removing the spare-tire apparatus might be to use angle and bolt it to the bottom and side of the frame.  There might be a way to leverage the existing structure of the spare tire carrier as well, especially if you would carry the spare somewhere else.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 11, 2020, 10:59 AM
At least on yours that used the same frame rail as the original when they put on the extension. A lot of them they just use a piece of C channel that is not the same size and they half bum weld it at that. A straight across weld is not really good on a frame although this one is beyond the suspension and frame twist area for the most part. Angle iron will introduce stress points at the ends since it will not have any flex in two dimensions where a flat plat bolted to the side would be able to flex in the same plane as the frame rail and as long as the corners of the plate are rounded and ground so they have a bevel where they meet the frame there will be no induced stress points. And bolting instead of welding allows for microscopic movement between the plate and the frame to also prevent stress fractures along the welds. I would make the plate the full width of the frame rail and at least 6", preferably 8", on either side of the weld with 4 5/8"-11 grade 8 bolts and flat washers per side of weld. Torqued to 160 Ft./lbs.. 5/8-18 fine thread would be a better choice at 180 Ft./lbs.. I always used fine thread on all of my jobs. Mainly because I had a supplier of surplus military hardware near me and I bought the stuff by the hundreds of pounds. But here is a good idea of what you could go with.


https://www.boltdepot.com/Hex_bolts_Zinc_plated_grade_8_steel_yellow_5_8-18.aspx (https://www.boltdepot.com/Hex_bolts_Zinc_plated_grade_8_steel_yellow_5_8-18.aspx)




Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 12, 2020, 01:38 AM
Thanks for the plan, Rick. As far as the spare tire carrier goes, the Winnebago site shows a spare tire carrier above the rear bumper and basically flat against the rear wall if you have the 19.5 wheels- which I do. This under mount spare tire carrier is supposedly only when equipped with the 16ââ,¬Â rims. And believe me I know why! Iââ,¬â,,¢m wondering if I can find a 19.5 Alcoa rim - this steel one is heavy. But I think Iââ,¬â,,¢ll keep it where it is and maybe adapt one of those winch up systems similar to on my Dodge Ram pickup. I have one of those dual level trailer hitches that allows you to have a bike rack as well as towing a light trailer. Iââ,¬â,,¢ve already fitted the bike rack, bikes, and the small inflatable so it all works, but thereââ,¬â,,¢s not going to be any room back there for a spare tire to hang out. Under the neath it goes.
Iââ,¬â,,¢m going with your plan 100% on the flat plate and the bolts, so can hardly wait to get out the 1/2ââ,¬Â Milwaukee heavy duty 110V drill and see how many times I get it jammed in the holes as the drill bit breaks thru.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 12, 2020, 03:51 PM
When I had my shop I used to do a lot of modifications and 4X4 conversions so I had a Mag-drill. Very pricey! But if you can find a place to rent one for a half day you will be glad you did. You can clamp the plate in there and drill through both the plate and frame and have perfectly fitting holes. You are not going to be able to pull that off with a hand drill. You can come close but if you are going with 5/8" bolts you are not going to do that in one step.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: TerryH on February 12, 2020, 04:40 PM
A Mag-drill also has a huge safety benefit over a 1/2 inch drill with a 5/8 bit through steel. The hand drill, when it jams, has the potential to break bones. Ever notice how difficult it is to release the trigger when a drill jams? Somehow it is not the normal first reaction to let go of the trigger.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 12, 2020, 07:01 PM
Yep, and I have the scars to prove it. The newer 20 volt lithium drills will put a real hurting on you too. On the older 1/2 inch drills I would put a breaker bar or a long steel rod through the handle and brace it against the frame so when it grabbed that took the force and not me. Worked great until the handle broke and ripped the wire out, sparks everywhere and in a real close quarters situation that was not fun. Bought the mag-drill shortly after that episode.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 13, 2020, 01:07 AM
Got the metal. 4ââ,¬Â x 3/8 x 24ââ,¬Â.
Got the mag drill. Rented it for Saturday, but they close at 1:00PM, AND Monday is a holiday - so Iââ,¬â,,¢ve got it till Tuesday for the price of a one day rental. (Was seriously thinking about buying one as Iââ,¬â,,¢ve used them on job sites before and theyââ,¬â,,¢re definitely the way to go)
I do have a question though - and it may be difficult to tell from my sideways photo - but the actual frame has two large holes already just ahead of the join. The plan is to use 4 bolts on each side of the joint, and Iââ,¬â,,¢m wondering if I should just pick up those two existing holes and drill two more on the front half? Theyââ,¬â,,¢re haphazardly located, and are slotted.
Maybe just 4 fresh holes each side of the join?


Thanks for all the input!
More sideways pics over the weekend.....
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 13, 2020, 08:22 AM
The slotted holes are most likely the original holes for the bumper brackets. You can use them but if it were me I would use a longer plate and still drill at least four matching holes. The matching holes will give you the strength for tongue weight on the trailer hitch. They are what are helping hold up the rear of the frame. The extra holes in the frame are freebies and if you decide to use them it can't hurt and they will always help, especially with lateral strength. That frame has not failed by now it probably never will but I am a firm believer if being absolutely sure. I ran a heavy tow truck for years and I can't tell you how many RV's I had to tow with the tail end of the frame broken off. 90% of them were from towing a car or boat trailer and they hit a dip in the road. There was one particular spot on a secondary road that was famous for breaking RV's in that area and got at least 25 of them. It was nothing more than a dip in the road. But when you hit that dip the downforce from the trailer can add up to a ton or more on the hitch! RV hitches were made for pulling a toad with no real tongue weight, just a tow bar.
One more note, on the bolts, be sure to size the length of the bolts so you have the smooth shoulder of the bolt in the hole and not the threads. Use a flat washer (grade 8) on both sides of the frame and this will give the room needed to give you shoulder in the hole without running out of thread. You can also go with a lockwasher on each, also grade 8. The smooth part of the bolt will be a snug fit in the hole which is what you are looking for. The only thing better would be rivets and hot rivets are an art best left to old time boilermakers and ironworkers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRk4MtK4as4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRk4MtK4as4)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLtfgM2xabo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLtfgM2xabo)
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 13, 2020, 10:19 AM
Great ideas, and thanks for the step by step. The shoulder length on the bolt thing would have probably dawned on me as I was lying on my back in the dirt on Sunday - 20 miles from the bolt store.
Depending on how well the mag drill goes, Iââ,¬â,,¢ll try to use the existing holes as bonus holes, and drill the additional 4 on the original frame side of the join as well. If I mark and drill them first, they will help act as a clamp to position the plate while drill the all new holes
I like a bit of overkill on this type of thing as well. Although the extension is short, and my planned towing is light - ya never know whatââ,¬â,,¢s gonna end up back there.
More soon- lets hope the mag drill has lots of flux density!
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 13, 2020, 10:30 AM
Iââ,¬â,,¢ve mentioned earlier that I had an old Dodge class A that I used to tow around my race boat. The boat and trailer werenââ,¬â,,¢t too heavy ( all high tech composites and thin) but I did have a custom rear bumper made up as the motor home didnââ,¬â,,¢t come with a hitch. I purchased some heavy wall square stock to resemble the original bumper, purchased a hitch receiver, had heavy mounts made up, and had it all professionally welded. Then I had the whole thing galvanized and bolted to the frame. And I towed that boat all over northwest for years.
With two pit bikes mounted on top of the bumper.
Never a glitch. And the thing was still intact when I saw it last year.


But I never did check the frame for any extensions!
Not a good way to find the weak link in the system. Oh well - lucky I guess.

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 16, 2020, 09:27 PM
After looking at everything, I increased the length of the metal brace to 30 inches. Made a bunch of things more convenient.
Got all the bolts - had to go 5/8 coarse thread grade 8 to be able to get a decent shoulder. If I went fine thread I was only able to get them in 4ââ,¬Â lengths. Way too long. Had to settle for 2 and a half inches though.
Anyway, got one side basically done - gotta love that Milwaukee Mag Drill!
Heres a photo part way through - and itââ,¬â,,¢ll probably post here sideways. Apologies in advance.
Iââ,¬â,,¢ll have a total of 6 bolts on either side of the join.
The other side is gonna be tougher - the generator is kinda in the way of the mag drill. Figure may way around that one tomorrow.
Thanks for all the tips.
Iââ,¬â,,¢ll round all the corners , bevel the edges and throw on some rust paint before final bolt up.

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 16, 2020, 09:42 PM
Two more holes to go.

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 17, 2020, 06:02 PM
Good job! That frame will last longer than the rest of the vehicle.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: TerryH on February 17, 2020, 06:38 PM
A mag drill is a very utilitarian tool. Especially when you are laying on your back in a contorted position, on a ladder or scaffold. Great deal on your rental! Would a stubby bit help for the other side? Most jobbers carry them.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 17, 2020, 08:21 PM
The mag drill made it possible to do the job injury free. It even missed my head when the dog unplugged it for me.
A stubby wouldnââ,¬â,,¢t have helped on the other side due to the generator hanging down. I thought about pulling the generator - but actually managed to get 11 holes drilled with the mag drill, so only drilled 1 with the hand held. I just didnââ,¬â,,¢t have as much freedom with the bolt locations. Random pattern is probably stronger anyway.
And did I say - the Mag Drill is the ONLY way to do this job.
Here a picture of the original REINFARCEMENT plate beside the new reinforcement plate.
And it wonââ,¬â,,¢t matter if the pic is sideways!,
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Froggy1936 on February 17, 2020, 08:33 PM
Hi I think the orientation of the photos is controlled on the camera ?  Frank
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 17, 2020, 08:36 PM
So, back to the original issue with the engine bog.
Iââ,¬â,,¢m gonna pull out my injectors and send em in to get checked and cleaned along with another batch Iââ,¬â,,¢m doing.
And, while I was in there, I noticed a vacuum line ( small, hard plastic one) that had burned off.
It runs to the heater / AC control on the panel from some switched device on the top of the intake manifold. So there was an open vacuum port, and the other thing that runs off that device is the idle vacuum diaphram on the TBI. I put some vacuum to it and the diaphram moved to allow the throttle blades to close a bit. Always thought the idle was a bit high....
Havenââ,¬â,,¢t started it to see - now tracking down my broken manifold stud and have the spark plug wires off.
PCV valve appears NFG as well. Itââ,¬â,,¢s just a check valve isnââ,¬â,,¢t it? If so - definitely NFG.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: TerryH on February 17, 2020, 08:58 PM
Quote from: FarPoint on February 17, 2020, 08:21 PM

Here a picture of the original REINFARCEMENT plate beside the new reinforcement plate.
And it wonââ,¬â,,¢t matter if the pic is sideways!,
To bad Winnebago didn't see this photo some 30 years ago.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 18, 2020, 09:52 AM
Yep, some good work there. The PCV valve is more of a regulation valve than a check valve but if you shake it and it does not rattle it is bad. If it is old just replace it, they are cheap. All the PCV does is regulate the crankcase pressure but if it clogs then pressure builds and you get leaks at the main seals and things like valve covers start to leak and you will get a ton of blowby. The small vacuum line that was broken would have probably caused your heater controls to not select the right positions and as you noticed the idle speed. That is an anti-stall solenoid I believe and not the speed control. Speed control on the first generation of units was still by way of a screw on that solenoid. Unless your MAP sensor was on the same line as the broken one (and it shouldn't be) then it most likely is not changing that setting. But best to go over all the hoses. You mention a broken manifold stud, that could be an issue in how it runs. If the exhaust manifold is leaking it will actually be leaking both ways, it will be blowing exhaust out but it will also be pulling oxygen in and that will affect the O2 sensor which in turn will affect the mixture to the injectors.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 18, 2020, 01:30 PM
Aargh.
2 studs actually. And I havenââ,¬â,,¢t even tried to undo the others. I wonder if I ca get a small nut cracker on those nuts, so as not to add to my problem. Itââ,¬â,,¢s on the left side which is the least accessible. And the mag drill ainââ,¬â,,¢t gonna help on this one.
If I can crack those nuts, clean up the existing threads ( if any) then maybe use brass nuts to ease future breakage issues, then all i have to concentrate on is getting out two studs.
Dream on......


Thanks for the input Rick!

Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 18, 2020, 01:34 PM
Hereââ,¬â,,¢s a pic of the dog that yanked the plug on the mag drill. Comedian.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: Rickf1985 on February 18, 2020, 08:54 PM
And he is still laughing! Beautiful dog. I just rescued one a couple days ago. Came complete with a Russian passport. I don't have any decent pics yet, she is still in seclusion most of the time but once she gets acclimated I will get some.
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on February 18, 2020, 11:43 PM
Quote from: FarPoint on February 18, 2020, 01:34 PM
Hereââ,¬â,,¢s a pic of the dog that yanked the plug on the mag drill. Comedian.

What a beautiful doggo!  Belgian Shepherd?

Kev
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 19, 2020, 11:37 AM
OK- so it looks like I may have the camera thing under control. Yep- just hold the phone vertically rather than going panorama.
The dog is a purebread German Shepherd (SG1 rated) longhair. But you can certainly see where the Belgian Shepherds came from when you see Luna. The day we took that pic we met a Belgian on that trail and the faces were very similar - but the Belgians Iââ,¬â,,¢ve seen tend to have even more hair.
Congrats on your new dog Rick. Iââ,¬â,,¢m glad to hear youââ,¬â,,¢ve rescued an animal in need. And youââ,¬â,,¢re right - just a bit of time and you too will have a great helper. Ours is certainly my best buddy - she goes everywhere with me, but is at home with mom every night.
I managed to hook up the vacuum line from the heater controls to that unit on the intake manifold, and my idle did drop when the vacuum canister began to operate. But there are a couple of other weird issues - Iââ,¬â,,¢ll try to get a handle on them today so I can make some sense here.
Thanks for all the pointers!
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on February 19, 2020, 10:11 PM
Quote from: FarPoint on February 19, 2020, 11:37 AM
OK- so it looks like I may have the camera thing under control. Yep- just hold the phone vertically rather than going panorama.
The dog is a purebread German Shepherd (SG1 rated) longhair. But you can certainly see where the Belgian Shepherds came from when you see Luna. The day we took that pic we met a Belgian on that trail and the faces were very similar - but the Belgians Iââ,¬â,,¢ve seen tend to have even more hair.
Congrats on your new dog Rick. Iââ,¬â,,¢m glad to hear youââ,¬â,,¢ve rescued an animal in need. And youââ,¬â,,¢re right - just a bit of time and you too will have a great helper. Ours is certainly my best buddy - she goes everywhere with me, but is at home with mom every night.
I managed to hook up the vacuum line from the heater controls to that unit on the intake manifold, and my idle did drop when the vacuum canister began to operate. But there are a couple of other weird issues - Iââ,¬â,,¢ll try to get a handle on them today so I can make some sense here.
Thanks for all the pointers!

Luna is beautiful!  Gotta love the long hair GSDs!  There are even wire haired GSDs...they just aren't popular here in the USA.  Beautiful doggo!!!

Kev
Title: Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
Post by: FarPoint on February 23, 2020, 08:05 PM
Thanks Kev! I have to heap most of the praises on the breeder, and the trainer she recommended.
And thanks for all the tips and procedures I got here on the frame reinforcements. Once I had sanded the rust off around the existing join, and pulled off the mini factory patch plate, I could really see how weak the extension would be. And mine is short. Hate to think about the longer ones out there running around.
Everyone that tows anything should at least get down there, clean up the area and have a look.
Then go get a Mag Drill. Do not do this job freehand.
Anyway- hereââ,¬â,,¢s a last view of my job completed, painted, bolted and torqued up. It will never look this good again.


AARGGGHHHH- sideways again! Oh well. It wasââ,¬â,,¢t camera orientation after all.