Well I figure I might as well start a thread here on this Pace Arrow I bought so I can keep all of the stuff about it in one spot as I get it to where I will be working on it and deciding if it is worth restoring or not. I went over to the lot where it is located today to hack through the jungle on the drivers side so I could get the drivers door open to get the info from there and also to check to be sure the generator was there, it is. I tried to get it started but the electrical gods were not liking me today and after weed wacking and chopping my way all the down one side only to find out I cannot open the door for some unknown reason I was to tired to fight with it. I did jump the coach batteries and everything came on, I mean EVERYTHING! All the lights, pump, fans, it was all on! Well, we know that works. I hit the generator switch and it cranked, I did not expect it to start. Once I get it to where it is going I will set up a remote tank for the generator so it will have clean fuel. I posted a request for any wiring diagrams in the electrical section since I have not been able to find a darn thing on these things. I am going back tomorrow to pay for it and get the title and try again to get it started, I am suspecting a bad battery connection somewhere but I have Dave on the case just in case there is a relay I am missing. I know he will find it. I did not take any pictures today since it was just to damn hot and I wanted to get done and out. I am still thrashing to get my other one ready for a trip next week. This was not really good timing but it was one of those deals that you have to jump on or lose. Towing will be Monday and I will try my best to get pictures.
Looks like a very interesting adventure with lost of twists, turns, ups, downs, knucklebusting, frustration, progress, set-backs and eventually - success! I'm glad you're taking us along for the ride!
Well it is out of the hole and on it's feet. My helper did not show so I was on my own. It is now paid or so the project begins. Had to jack it up about two feet to get the wheel out of the hole it was in and get blocking under the wheel. The gas tank took a pretty good shot but does not appear to be leaking. The fuel pressure regulator is leaking though but the gas coming out smells like good gas and not stale and varnish. That is a good thing. I did get it started on ether but found out quickly that the lower emissions pump is frozen so I could not run it more than just a burp or I would bur the belt off. Naturally it is the one that is damn near impossible to get to. if it were the top one I would just cut the belt but this is the belt that runs the water pump. Following are some pics of the hole recovery.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi635.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu74%2Frickf1985%2FPace%2520Arrow%2FIMG_0986.jpg&hash=79ec75b3d8893360f861603802a25a77143a5b2e) (http://s635.photobucket.com/user/rickf1985/media/Pace%20Arrow/IMG_0986.jpg.html)
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Here is a before and after of the drivers side.
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Even more evnious. Wish I lived closer. Be great to help bring this coach back to life.
Yea, I wish you lived closer too. I am getting too damn old for this kind of stuff! Note the rear of my truck, thirty cinder blocks that I loaded in there for weight for traction, now I have to unload them.
Us old guys never learn do we? :)
Nope, I just unloaded all the blocks from the truck and they were a lot heavier than they were when I put them in.
That's why God invented apprentices. And sons.
I only have daughters and they are long since married off. My apprentice was supposed to show up at my house at 08:00 but never showed and texted me at 10:30 telling me he just got up. He never did show up at the lot where it is at. His pay for helping me was free welding lessons, YEA, RIGHT!! :)rotflmao :)rotflmao Not now!
That looks like a cool rig Rick !! Sorry you had to do it all by your lonesome though, looking forward to seeing your progress after you recover :laugh:
Well, Finally got it towed at 5:00 this evening! And not by the company that I started with. I was at the camper at 05:30 this morning pulling the drive shaft out and attempting to reseat the bead on the flat tire. No luck on that so I went home after not getting hold of the guy for towing to get an extension cord to use for my slightly larger electric compressor after finding out there was power there at the pole. Sure wish I knew that when I was jacking it up to get it out of the hole. I have an air powered jack! Still no luck with the other compressor nor with a ratchet strap around the tire. No, I am not going to use ether. Home again, call the towing company and get several excuses like they had a truck break down and they are tied up on the road. They will be out by noon. Back I go, I call around 1:30 and I am told he is on the way and will be there in a minute. The driver calls 20 minutes later to find out where it is located and finally shows up at 2:30. Immediately frowns and tells me he cannot tow it because of the flat tire. He also has an attitude and I can tell it is because he is being asked to tow an old RV with his shiny 40 ton wrecker. Yup, They sent a 40 ton tri-axle to tow a 7 ton vehicle. I went off on him! I asked him what kind of company would put a wannabe driver like him in a quarter million dollar wrecker. Did he turn down $5,000. tows on the turnpike because the vehicle had a flat tire? I sure as heck didn't when I was towing heavy! I fixed the tire! He gave me the number of a tire service and left. I called the owner of the company who I had originally set this all up with, and who was aware of the flat tire, and told him he needed to get better trained drivers. He offered to come out tomorrow himself and tow it for me at a discount, I told him to forget it since he told me that the truck he sent was his smallest heavy wrecker. I know better, I have worked for one of his competitors in the past so I know exactly what he has. I told him there was no way he was going to get the RV where it needed to go with a 40 ton machine. I called a different company and they were out in an hour and a half, just in time for me to have the spare from my other RV on there. Pleasant driver and right sized wrecker. Better price. Not as good as I would have gotten from the owner probably but hey, I have principals. The driver could not put it in the field do to his company forbidding driving off road but he did put it right next to the field so I will drag it in with my truck.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi635.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu74%2Frickf1985%2FPace%2520Arrow%2FIMG_1005.jpg&hash=ff4c8c7e1231a1e7c943bd97e3584f2af320d95c) (http://s635.photobucket.com/user/rickf1985/media/Pace%20Arrow/IMG_1005.jpg.html)
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Progress Rick. Dont blow a gasket amigo. Everything in due time.
Looks like your "Flanagan's" guy was competent, capable, amenable and considerate.
Good choice.
By the way, the other guy in the picture is my buddy Jim, I have to give credit to him also since it is his property the RV is going to be on for a while. I do a lot of work on the Jeep's he takes on the cross country antique military vehicle reenactments. Picture driving a military Jeep 4,000 miles in 30 days! I'll build it bit I ain't drivin' it. W%
Hey Rick nice pickup. :)ThmbUp
Quote from: Rickf1985 on August 24, 2015, 07:32 PM
Not as good as I would have gotten from the owner probably but hey, I have principals.
:)ThmbUp :)clap
I wish you much fun when renovating :)ThmbUp :)
Thomas
Wish I had your ability so much I'd like to do with mine.
Quote from: Rickf1985 on August 25, 2015, 06:47 AM
Picture driving a military Jeep 4,000 miles in 30 days! I'll build it bit I ain't drivin' it. W%
Nay, you will be following in the Pace Arrow. Creature comforts ya know :laugh:
Well the pick up earned its keep and pulled the beast into the field next to where it is sitting in the pictures. Didn't get any pics of that move because all hands were busy and could not take pictures. Aside from getting my good spare off tomorrow for my trip next week it is going to sit until I get back. Then I will try to get the generator started with a remote gas tank so I have power to work from. If that goes well I will be cleaning out the inside and getting one of the emissions pumps I took off of my Winnie on there so I can run it. I know it will start on ether so I just have to get gas to it. Will get a regulator repair kit and that should get me gas to the carb.
I dont see any pictures. Just blanks ?
Yes, a LOT of "blanks". There was no photo links so there was nothing I could do except delete all the blank space.
i??
Oz, I don't know if you were serious or not but there were no picture links. There will probably be no more pics till after my trip and I get time to get cover there and work on it. Two weeks after my trip to Virginia I have a day trip up to Gilbert Pa. for the last show of the year and then I can concentrate on getting some other stuff done. Like splitting several cords of wood! D:oH!
Rick - There was about 10" of dead space earlier. Everyone thought you had posted some more pics.
Yes, there were no links. I went to check them in the editor to see if there was a problem with the bbc code tags or something, but there was absolutely nothing, only your text and a huge blank space, like Dave said.
Oh, I know what that was. Remember I have said in the past that the site locks up on me sometimes? Well that is what it did. It scrolled down and locked up and I could not get it to do anything at all. I did finally get it to post so I guess it had added a bunch of nothing in between. Sorry about that.
I went back over to get my good spare off of it the other day and found out that it did actually have a spare tire! That could have saved me a LOT of trouble. It was in a side compartment WAY back inside behind a trailer spare tire. This thing has HUGE basement compartments. I looked at it a bit more while I was drinking my coffee, and also decided that the tire that came off of it was in better shape than my spare, so I did not have to change the tire again. The sides are delaminated but not bubbled like my Winnebago. They are more evenly pushed out. The sides are also made in three sections running front to back, one from the top down to the bottom of the windows. One from the there to the the waistline and then the bottom section. This would make it much easier to replace with Filon if I decide the rest of it is worth rebuilding. I will get some more pictures after I get back from vacation and start to get things cleaned up on it. I hope to get the generator started so I have power to run equipment with. I will get a fuel pressure regulator so I can get it running and moving under it's own power. I am not going to sink any real money into this until I deem it is worth it. I need to sell some things to pay back what I put out for it already.
Ok, back from vacation and the temperature has finally gone below the mid nineties so I went back over to go over a few things today between the rain drops. No pics because of the rain. Got the generator running and the fridge came on on AC. I turned it off because I am not ready to check it out yet. It appears from inside and out to have never been used. Governor was stuck on generator but freed up pretty quickly. There appears to be remnants of mouse home in the edges of the shroud so I have to figure out how to get that out before running it too long and overheating it from lack of air. I can't figure out how this thing comes out of there.
Got up on the roof, had not been up there before. It is solid except for the left rear and there is a 6 foot long by half the width section that is soft. You can hear the delaminated wood when you push on it. The rear cap is open at both edges so that is the water entry point. This is worrisome to me since it is a dome fiberglass roof. This is not something you can just repair a section of. I am beginning to think that unless someone wants to offer me a good price on it minus the generator and fridge then it is going to be cut up for parts.
I will be going over tomorrow with a camera and a note pad and maybe a small generator and a vacuum and take notes on what is good and what is bad. If anyone wants pictures of anything let me know.
In the picture below the area just out of the pic to the left is the problem
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Im sorry to hear that Rick. I was hoping you had found a diamond in the rough.
I am sure it could be for someone but I just do not have the money to do it.
Well I promised more picture but I did not take any since I really did not do anything to take pictures of. Put some different batteries in and got the generator starting on the proper switches without jumpers. Will run on the stale gas in the tank but runs much better from a fresh can. Checked out both air conditioners and they run fine. Engine runs as long as I put gas down the carb. Not getting any gas up the line from the rear. Regulator is no longer leaking so I don't know if the pump is not running or if the diaphragm was just dry and now has sealed. Pulled the line off of the mechanical pump on the engine and get real good vacuum on the inlet side so I am thinking the inline filter is completely blocked. I am going to run a seperate line to the pump from a fresh can of gas to get it going. Still have the locked up emissions pump to deal with, right now I just loosened the alternator belt so the belt does not burn. It does have a brand new alternator, another plus.
Found more bad, the wall below the above mentioned soft spot in the roof is bad from the rear cap forward about ten feet. Soft and separated from the framing. Again, This is behind fiberglass and would take extensive work to make it right.
And the Mor-Ryde springs? They look like they were recently replaced, no cracks at all and with 90,000 on the clock I would think they would be showing some signs of wear.
If you scrap it out, make sure you save the MorRyde springs to sell. If they are in good condition, I'm sure you can find a buyer. New they are very expensive.
Kev
I will keep that in mind Kevin but the problem being is that I would need to keep it a rolling chassis so that it could be towed to the scrapyard unless I am going to go the whole distance and torch the frame into pieces that will fit on my trailer and can be handled by this old man. I don't think I want to get that far into it. That is WAY down the road anyway so I am not too worried about that yet. Depending on what comes up in the thread about delamination recently posted I may fix it who knows. i?? I have made many, many poor decisions in my life, why break the pattern now? W% :)rotflmao
On another note. I was over there today again trying to get it running and no joy. It does run as long as I am pouring gas in the carb so I know the engine is good. The stock fuel pump has good vacuum at the pump inlet but once you get back to the inline filter back by the door it is not enough to pull gas out of a can. The line is solid with no rust or holes that I can see and I can see the while line from the filter forward. 1/2" fuel line is prohibitively expensive so I am going to go to the hardware store tomorrow and get ten feet of vinyl tubing so I can get the can up high and get the gas flowing down to the pump. I am hoping that once I get the pump wetted out it will be better. The electric fuel pump is not running, I cannot find the relay. I did find a box under the hood up on the cowl that has 6-8 wires going to it, not a clue. Found another one, metal, looks like an older Ford ignition module. It is mounted on top of the radiator support inline with the carburetor linkage so I am thinking this may be the cruise. My back went out so I was in extreme pain and bending down to look under the dash and forward to see if there was linkage was out of the question. I did get underneath and pull the plug on the fuel pump safety switch and got 12 volts across the pins with the key off or on. The kicker is that the voltage was dropping and if I jumped the pins to start the pump the voltage went away, key on or off. Then it would build up again but drop just with the meter across it. Sounds like a capacitor? I am thinking this must be going through the fuel pressure module. I REALLY need to find the relay or module so I can find the pump wire and put it on a switch. That way I can prime things and get it going.
This gas tank got bent when the PO backed it into the hole it has resided in for the last 7 years. The dent is on the bottom rear side so should not affect the pump but may have knocked wires off or shorted them out. could also have pinched lines since it appears to have pushed it up at the same time. I cannot do anything with the tank where it is at so I will have to get it running on a can and get it moved first. Where can I find the special fuel pump supply hose? The rubber one that looks like a snake ready to strike. The only 1/2" fuel line I could get in the local stores was in a blister pack, 2 feet long and bent to the point of being kinked in four places! Useless!!! I can buy a 20 foot roll but is is going to cost me around 60.00 and I do not need anywhere near that much even between two motor homes! The 2 foot blister packs..................... $12.00!!! $6.00 a foot! At least the roll would only be $3.00 a foot.
Ok, Got it running today from a can inside with a line running down to the engine fuel pump. Still have to address the locked up emissions pump. I think I am going to just remove the pulley and put the same shorter belt on that I have on my Winnie after I removed the pump. Got the generator running good and found it was not charging the batteries. Finally found the AC power panel and converter under the fridge and found a breaker marked "optional air conditioner". This breaker was tripped so I reset it and the generator dropped down with a heavy load. It was charging 14.5 volts at that point, Success! Got a couple picture on my phone but too late to get them up right now. Drive shaft is back in so at this point I can move it if need be. over the next weekend I will move it up to my buddies shop where I have an extension cord so I can plug it in and check the fridge and clean out the interior. Never did get the electric fuel pump going, found two relays where they should be, one is kind of large and one is the size of a standard relay. I can not get a good line of sight on them since they are behind the engine AC pump. Which would be the pump relay?
Here are some crappy pics I got with my phone yesterday when I was over there. I have found controls all over the place in there!
Here is the electrical panel under the refrigerator. That is on the opposite side and halfway up the coach from the generator and shore power cord.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi635.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu74%2Frickf1985%2FPace%2520Arrow%2FIMG_0627.jpg&hash=9b059c2611df55000c691ee5cc88b4aaab216059) (http://s635.photobucket.com/user/rickf1985/media/Pace%20Arrow/IMG_0627.jpg.html)
The battery disconnects for the chassis on the right and the house on the left. This is over the entrance door.
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The A/C controls, this is in the overhead cabinet behind the drivers seat.
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Here is what the generator was putting into the dead battery once I found the "optional Air conditioner" breaker tripped and reset it.
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Rick,
Good adventure!
I enjoyed reading it.
Steve
I was beginning to wonder if anyone was looking. I have to start evicting some of the current residents this weekend. As I was working on it the other day I had a field mouse sitting on my hand looking at me like "what are you doing in my house?" :D I grew up on farms and in the woods so critters do not bother me but they have their place and this is not it. I hope to move it closer to the shop this weekend so I can plug it in and then the wholesale cleaning begins and I can really see what I am up against. Unfortunataly he does not have a water outlet where I will be so pressure washing it is out. I wanted to get a good look at the skin under all the slime and see if it is worth putting any effort into it. I already know the whole left rear corner is bad so I am going to need some convincing to save it. If I can get a couple of my boats sold then I could move it to my house and be able to spend plenty of time on it but I am not going to be able to do a major overhaul in a field here.
I put bounce dryer sheets all around the motorhome it does help
I will try that, it was that or moth balls and I have had so-so results with moth balls. I don't like poison for two reasons, one I am semi humane and two, I am in a field and they will be back and the last thing I want is dead and decaying mice in there. It is smelly enough in there with the mice and bird droppings!
One of the things I dislike about my Holiday Rambler is that most of the switches and circuit breakers are near the floor, requiring me to get on my hands and knees to address them. I really wish they were up high like yours. Getting down isn't too much problem but getting back up is another matter. "Help, I've Fallen and I Can't Get Up!"
I'm not into poison, either, and I try dryer sheets and stuff from Camping World, but every winter I, also, set several traps out with peanut butter. I usually catch two each season.
Not all of my switches are high up, that electrical cover plate that is leaning against the panel is sitting on the floor. I was on my knees and bending down to try to get that picture, hence why it is blurry. I could not get down far enough to see when it was in focus. You know, I remember being young one time. W% :(
I asked before but I will try again, does anyone have a picture of the actual fuel pump relay? I want to unplug mine for the time being as I want move it with a line in a gas can. The last thing I want is for the pump to decide to start working with the line disconnected!!! I have two relays side by side where it should be located, one larger than the other. I don't know what either is but I don't want to unplug something I need at this point.
O-Kaaay, I have searched until I am blue in the fingers. I know that at one time there was a thread on here about the fuel pressure relays that included pictures of the relay and comments about it being an uncommon part. I guess I will unplug both and if it will still run off of the gas can I am not going to worry about it.
Somewhere I posted pics, but have no idea where. I replaced the fuel pump relay with a standard 30 amp relay, bypassing the oil pressure cut off, and ran all new 10 gauge wires to the in tank fuel pump. I was tired of playing with it, and went medieval on its butt...lol! Haven't had a problem since.
Kev
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,10080.msg62355.html#msg62355
Thats a thread where Dave shows a diagram of the fuel pump relay. No picture of it or location but he does have the color codes for the wiring of it. Can you use the wire colors to locate which one Rick?
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,8795.msg43828.html#msg43828 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,8795.msg43828.html#msg43828)
Is that it, Kevin?
Yes it is Joan! Thanks! It has the diagram that Dave sent me on page 1, and then the Barth article I posted on how to install and wire in the aftermarket 40 amp relay. It was a permanent fix for mine.
Kev
Thanks Kevin, I did find that post in my search but it did not have any pics of the relay but now that I look at the location diagram again I notice the other relay is the A.I.R. system relay and it is larger and the fuel pump relay is held with two screws it looks like. I can see that on one of mine, the smaller one, is held with two screws. I will pull both since I am not going to need the emissions for moving it but now I know where to go for the wires I need to jumper the pump. And where the relays are on this one I cannot get to the wiring due to the AC compressor being in the way. Will need to find a way around that.
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,8795.msg43661.html#msg43661 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,8795.msg43661.html#msg43661)
Ok, Been a while since I added anything here. I haven't been doing much with it beside getting it running and cleaning out mice. Lost the field it was stored in so had a short time to get things together and get it out of there. Decided the cheapest way to do it was to add it to my insurance on the other one for 30.00 more and tag it and then drive it to my house. Sounds easy right? Well consider this thing has not moved under its own power in 11 years! I disconnected the fuel line from the tank since I could not get it to feed from the tank anyway, the pump would not run. I unplugged the pump relay just in case it decided to wake up so it did not pump 40 gallons of ten your old gas on the road. I hooked up a line to a boat tank inside the coach on the floor. Had to take the pulley off of the lower A.I.R. pump since the pump was seized and went with a shorter belt to run the alternator. I highly recommend keeping this belt in your vehicle at all times along with a 10mm socket and ratchet to remove the pulley. in an emergency if that pump seizes this will get you going again. And they do seize regularly.
So got it running fairly well, well enough that it would move on its own and not stall. Even got comfortable enough to put the air cleaner back on and lay the top of the dogbox on to keep the engine heat in there. It was already close to a hundred degrees in the coach. Got the wife behind me and away we go! had a long dirt driveway to go down so I had a chance to test the brakes before hitting the road.......................... brakes........................... well, kind of has brakes. Figure they are four wheel discs that have not been used in 11 years so the rotors are solid rust. Pads on rust do not provide a lot of friction. Well I plan on doing half the speed limit anyway so emergency stops are not a priority. We get to the road, it stops! We are good to go ;) :) I pull out on the road and slowly accelerate and............................................................ it dies! Flat out shuts off! restart and it dies. No gas. Coast over to the side of the road and start ripping into the motor, no gas in the carb. Look at my filter on my tank and it is empty. Crank it over and nothing coming into the filter! Check tank and it is 3//4 full, dive under the coach to check lines and all are on and the short clear 1/2 inch line is empty. run around and back up top, rip the line off of the boat tank fitting and stab it into the fill hole of the tank and start cranking, battery is going dead, it is a junk battery. I see it slurping massive amounts of gas so I just keep cranking and it fires and dies. Hit it again and it barely turns over but it catches and I am playing the dance that anyone who has run out of gas knows, pump, choke, choke off, pump, cuss, pump, GOT IT! It is not 125 degrees in the coach, yes there is a thermometer in there. Jump in the seat and away we go, again. There is a light right there and naturally I hit it red. I know the line is not all the way to the bottom of the tank so I am worried about how long I have before it runs out and I know I have no battery left. Light turns and I am off to a blazing 35 MPH. About a mile down the road my wife said something shiny came out from underneath and bounced up and hit the underneath of her car. Now I know where that damn 11/16 wrench went. D:oH! made it to the shop I work out of sometimes and parked it in the back yard. It was pulling pretty hard to the left and the inside temp was up to 165 and there was no way in hell I was going any further until I got under it to go over a few things.
And yes I went back to see if my wrench was in the road, it wasn't.
So anyway, I figured you would enjoy the escapades of getting the Pace Arrow home on a nice hot summer day. And the brakes did improve a little bit but I doubt they will get to roadworthy status.
Well, It has been a year since this project got started and I got into it yesterday and started pulling stuff out of the bedroom............................... Yea, it is bad. This is definitely going to be a donor unit. I had hopes of possibly restoring it but that is not going to happen. The metal framing in the walls is rotted out and I know the leaks are all along the roof so this will be a full length ordeal.
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The cracks in the caulk you see on the left hand corner on top go all the way around and down most of the side. The caulk was not adhered to the roof or the side panel so the water just ran across the roof and in the sides. I am throwing whatever caulk I have laying around on that seam to dry things up inside as I work and if it seals it up good I will use it for storage of the interior parts of my slide in as I rebuild that one. I can put everything in there and then drive it to the other end of the property out of the way.