I am surprised that doing a search on this topic does not turn up anything. It is a known and common problem on the 454 . No amount of googling has found a solution or explanation.
The lack of search results here must mean that either you have a solution on this forum or have never heard of it.
It always happens after a fully warmed engine is shut off and then re started 10 minutes later. Tightening the belt is only a temporary fix.
Help Help Help.
Once a belt has been squealing a few times it hardens the rubber then no matter how much you try to tighten it will still squeal only way to stop it is to replace with new ones, as they will burn out and break on you and cost more for damage that could be done.
Cliff
Thank you so much. Makes sense. Will replace ASAP. :)ThmbUp
Great Site this is
PS: What is it that causes the initial squealing?? Could it be heat build up under the Dog House after shut down causing softening and stretching of the belt ??
Have never had a vehicle that would do this. Hmmmm
You could have one of two problems or both. Either the belts are not being tightened to spec to start and then checked a day or so later or, and this is most likely, the pulley on the alternator is worn and that is causing the belt not to grip and glazing the belt right away. When you first start the engine the alternator is putting out it's maximum charge since the starter draws a lot out of the battery.
Thanks. Will certainly re check the tension after installing new one. Alternator has less than 5 K on it but who knows anything can happen.
If it was a rebuilt alternator it probably had some wear on the pulley already, or the pulley could have been badly worn. They do not check the pulleys, just the alternator. That is why I will not use a rebuilt alternator anymore unless I am the one that rebuilt it. Even if it was a new pulley it does not take too long with a chronically slipping belt to wear it out.
Just took the belt off. Its a miracle I made it home from our recent trip. Compared to the new one it had lost 30% of its width and depth. No wonder it was squealing.
Will check Alternator Pulley.
Quote from: Rickf1985 on June 28, 2015, 08:10 PM
If it was a rebuilt alternator it probably had some wear on the pulley already, or the pulley could have been badly worn. They do not check the pulleys, just the alternator. That is why I will not use a rebuilt alternator anymore unless I am the one that rebuilt it. Even if it was a new pulley it does not take too long with a chronically slipping belt to wear it out.
Must be the Alternator pulley. Brand new belt installed sitting on the driveway since August 2015......No Road usage whatsoever. Only a few startups on the driveway. First 10 minutes on the Road squeal is back with a vengeance. :(
You have more that one belt on that rig don't ya? If your alt belt was as bad as you say, CHANGE THE REST OF THEM!! hahahaa :P
No one has suggested pulley alignment yet. Misaligned pulleys in the belt path can cause premature wear.
Quote from: legomybago on November 06, 2015, 06:16 PM
You have more that one belt on that rig don't ya? If your alt belt was as bad as you say, CHANGE THE REST OF THEM!! hahahaa :P
I disagree.......The alternator belt lasts about a week.That is not normal. I hardly think Im gonna replace the others on a weekly basis
Quote from: M & J on November 06, 2015, 06:37 PM
No one has suggested pully alignment yet. Misaligned pullies in the belt path can cause premature wear.
You may well be getting warm. :)ThmbUp
initial squealing is usually due to a loose belt or wet belt. That you are wearing it out so fast does suggest one of your pulley's is bad and not turning freely.
Yup..........It must be. So I assume that I am in the minority with this problem and for the most part nobody on here seems to have this problem?
Have had this problem on my 1987 suburban 454.it turned out to be air ( smog ) pump bearing was bad.let sub warm up and removed all belts, could hardly spin air pump.I let everything cool off,pump pulley sun easily.
Quote from: kenwautoone on November 07, 2015, 11:56 AM
Have had this problem on my 1987 suburban 454.it turned out to be air ( smog ) pump bearing was bad.let sub warm up and removed all belts, could hardly spin air pump.I let everything cool off,pump pulley sun easily.
My air pump is long gone but maybe its the Alternator pulley. Ohh wait.....just remembered......Does it from cold start up as well lately
I would start by checking belt alignment and pulley condition. Great description of how to do this on pdf page 216 in the '79-'94 Chevy/GMC P-30 Chassis Service and Maintenance Manual downloadable from the members area.
Will do Thanks
Mine squeals when its cold. As it warms up they stop. That's how I know the motor is warmed up. :D
:)clap A Comedian
Quote from: stopngo on November 07, 2015, 11:05 AM
Yup..........It must be. So I assume that I am in the minority with this problem and for the most part nobody on here seems to have this problem?
Not sure when GM changed, but my 87 chassis has the wide, ribbed serpentine style belt. Seems this type gets better grip on the pulley and doesn't squeal nearly as much.
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9139.msg48344.html#msg48344
Quote from: cncsparky on November 07, 2015, 09:28 PM
Not sure when GM changed, but my 87 chassis has the wide, ribbed serpentine style belt. Seems this type gets better grip on the pulley and doesn't squeal nearly as much.
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9139.msg48344.html#msg48344
Thank you. Will check that out. The link to the post you supplied I think refers to the crank water pump ps belt. I am having trouble with the Alternator Belt.
Do you have a number for your wide ribbed Alternator belt??
If you scroll down to post #42 is where I posted my part numbers. Other belts are in that same thread elsewhere.
Quote from: stopngo on November 07, 2015, 11:05 AM
Yup..........It must be. So I assume that I am in the minority with this problem and for the most part nobody on here seems to have this problem?
This can be caused by 10 different issues? I'm sure with the advise posted on this thread that
you started, you found your problem this weekend... ???
Quote from: cncsparky on November 07, 2015, 09:28 PM
Not sure when GM changed, but my 87 chassis has the wide, ribbed serpentine style belt. Seems this type gets better grip on the pulley and doesn't squeal nearly as much.
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9139.msg48344.html#msg48344 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9139.msg48344.html#msg48344)
My 1985 chassis also has a serpentine alt/fan/air pump belt. Regular v-belt for the power steering and AC. Total of 3 belts
Quote from: legomybago on November 09, 2015, 11:28 AM
This can be caused by 10 different issues? I'm sure with the advise posted on this thread that you started, you found your problem this weekend... ???
My rig is still in the shop. Asked them to check it out. Hm?
By ALL means please report what the solution or problem is/was. 2 pages of suggestions I'm sure most are curious.
Something you may want to check. Different series of v-belts are made with different side angles & top widths.. It is possible to have the correct length belt but the sidewalls are just making point contact with the sides, This happens when someone uses a incorrect belt to get out of a situation and leaves it on and the next owner replaces it ,etc.
A point already made is that in 99% of cases the pulleys on a rebuild alternator are just transferred from old unit to the new. So if your pulley is worn to where the belt is contacting the bottom of the groove instead of the sides it will 1. not grip correctly & 2. will burn up quickly. The bottom contact will also happen when the wrong width belt is being used.
Quote from: cncsparky on November 08, 2015, 01:21 PM
If you scroll down to post #42 is where I posted my part numbers. Other belts are in that same thread elsewhere.
what thread? no post 42 here as far as i can tell
my 1984 Chieftain had the old pre-Workhorse design with v-belt driving alternator. It had the chronic fanbelt squeal and i tried everything but they squealed and heated and glazed and broke until i got the word about the v-belt replacement that is 1/16" wider. i have a picture of the GM "Goodwrench Drive Belt" package to prove it is a GM item with part number and description, but it was always hard to get even thru GM dealerships/parts desk. Not sure how to post an attachment here so here is the info off the packaging:
-â€"â€"------------------------------------
1# 9433752.
(02096J5 Gr. 1.066)
GM blue logo
Goodwrench Drive Belt
Quality Engineered
7/16 x 50.00
â€"------------------------------------
That first line is quantity 1# and then the p/n.
I dont know what the second line in parentheses means.
The reason that this belt is better is the width is right for the pulleys--it rides in the top of the groove where it is supposed to be. The typical belt used is 3/8-inch wide and it rides down lower in the groove, where it rubs and wears very quickly.
If GM wont provide you 7/16 x 50.00 you need to get with a parts man and find it from another supplier. Really, 7/16 wide cured my belt problem. It used toy make every trip a chance to sit roadside fixing the belt, not to mention the search in strange towns for a useful belt.
i wonder if classicwinnebago.com has enough pre-Workhorse 454 owners and buying power to convince Gates or Bando or a belt maker to produce a top-of-line 7/16 x 50.00!?
Good luck with your classic , keep 'em rolling!
Ned Bedinger
Southworth, WA
Good info, A lot of belt squeal problems were cause by the initial loose belt not being tighten in a timely manner and it would wear the pulleys , especially on the alternator which seemed to use an inferior steel in their pulleys. Once that pulley was worn then no amount of tightening would prevent the new belt from slipping and it would wear very quickly. This was a modified approach to solving the problem that would work on the lower speed motors but on the cars where people tended to rev them higher and faster it tended to throw the belts off. This was a major problem with the single AC belt.
Quote from: nedb on May 24, 2017, 03:29 AM
what thread? no post 42 here as far as i can tell
In post 20 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,11338.msg68869.html#msg68869) of this thread, cncsparky referred to Post 42 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,9139.msg48344.html#msg48344) of his thread.
My Warrior does the squeal thing when I first start it and I'm with the other person on it quits when it's warmed up ..lol but I do need to replace my belts 😃
When the vehicle first starts just let it run at normal speed. A lot of people rev it and rev it. That just make the slip worse. The heaviest charge is usually only there for 20-30 seconds and if the rpms are not way up the belt will not slip unless it is really loose.
There was a police station not far from my shop and they had what I will call a swat van since everyone has seen SWAT vans on TV. It was the same van but it was actually a radio control van. They would start that thing up and immediately fly out and past my shop with the belts screaming for mercy! One day I went up there with a half dozen different belts and asked the lieutenant to pop the hood. He asked why and I told him I just could not stand hearing that thing screaming past my shop screaming for help every day. He laughed and opened it up and in ten minutes I had changed the belt. It still squealed so I went back to the shop and got a new alternator pulley and put that on and it was good to go. I told him about the idling after start so he gathered up the drivers of the van and I explained how it worked and from that day on they never had any more issues with the belts. Their radios worked much better with full power too.
I did not charge them for the belts, pulley or labor. ;)
Bottom line here, If your battery is low then let it idle for several minutes. it is easier on the alternator and on the belts. The whole system will thank you in the long run.
When I bought my rig, I had a squealing belt at startup... I just tightened it and what a surprise the PO forgot to
re-tighten the pivot bolt from the alternator! All good since then...