My dash/instrument AND exterior running lights WILL NOT turn off.
I can dim the running lights so it *looks* like they're off, by dimming the INSTRUMENT lights, but they're still not off... And there's nothing I can do about the instrument and dash lights. They're ALWAYS on, and NOT dimmable! (unless the battery cutoff switch is off... but then, of course, I have no power at all.)
Any ideas?
This doesn't seem normal at all. I've never seen exterior running lights that you could dim with the dash lights.
Furthermore, you cannot dim the running lights when they're actually turned on. Only when they're supposed to be off are they dimmable.
has anyone recently installed a radio?? .seen it many times dash light wire gets tied in with a battery wire
Jess Most likely its a worn out / Bad headlight switch A lot of drivers useing truckers signals put a large demand on headlight and dimmer switches Frank
At headlight switch, sounds like someone swapped the 18 gauge tan wire (circuit L20; connects to pin R for dash lights) with the 18 gauge purple (circuit L11; connects to pin P for running lights).
Circuit L20 (dash lights) goes to the INST fuse then to the small connector on the instrument panel.
Circuit L11 (Running lights) - goes to the presence lamp relay mounted to the side of the steering column bracket.
Dave
Looks like I have a few places to start looking...
- It does have big signals attached to the side mirrors...
- Circuit City installed a stereo according to some paperwork...
- Verify Tan wire to pin R/dash, and Purple wire to pin P/running lights...
Thanks for the good leads.
Let us know what you find. A fix is always good for anyone searching later on down the road.
Quote from: Rickf1985 on July 14, 2014, 12:10 PM
Let us know what you find. A fix is always good for anyone searching later on down the road.
Will do! Right now I'm trying to locate a headlight switch. I called winnebagoparts.com and they are currently looking...
I just bought this MH, but I'm
fairly certain this happened on my watch, as I don't believe this problem was happening prior to Saturday. And I have done NOTHING to the wiring since I bought it (except add a deep cycle battery), which leads me to think the headlight switch is the culprit...
- You might consider e-mailing this chap. He may cut you a deal on the light switch. Hm?
- http://www.ebay.com/itm/WINNEBAGO-DOOR-COMPLETE-ASSEMBLY-ENTRY-DOOR-SCREEN-DOOR-DOOR-JAM-FRAME-/301242040449?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item46236cc081
LJ-TJ, I sent him a message... Thank you my good sir! :)ThmbUp
Here's my switch. For what it's worth, I did notice when I was removing it, it has clearly been removed before...
I'm wondering if there's a way to test this? Wouldn't there be a way to do a resistance test with a milti-meter?
Edit: Sorry I thought I added the picture.
Go to your local NAPA Auto Parts.
Ask the nice counterman to get you an Echlin part # HL-6571 headlight switch.
Pay the nice man.
Now take your old switch and turn it over.
See that button on the other side? Push it down and pull out your knob shaft from your old switch.
Now take your knob and stick it back on your shaft where you yanked it off. glue might be needed.
Install your new switch in the dash and connect the wiring.
Now, shove the repaired knob and shaft into the new switch.
Push it all the way in, then pull switch to verify it locked into the switch.
Now turn the lights off... your done.
:)
Now there's some instructions even I can understand! Lefty, you should write a book, "RV Repair & Maintenance for Idiots". I'd be the first to buy it.
:)
But are the running light off now you have the switch out?
Quote"I'm wondering if there's a way to test this? Wouldn't there be a way to do a resistance test with a milti-meter?"
Basically, if you know which connector goes to the dimmer function, you could measure the resistance in Ohms... As the switch is rotated to turn the dash lights brighter, the resistance should decrease... as you turn it to dim the dash lights, the resistance should increase. (It's been a long time since I checked one, I may even have this backwards) But, I do not have the specifications on exactly what values the resistance should be in order for it to pass or fail.
Also, I'd have to agree with Dave's diagnoses. If the outside running lights are dimming via the switch, either there is a short between the dash light circuit and the running light circuit...possibly even internal inside the switch (bad switch). Or somebody has messed around with the wiring and spliced in a connection where they shouldn't have.
Just an update to this thread...
Lefty, your instructions are fantastic. I was able to replace the switch from NAPA.
Unfortunately, replacing the switch did not fix the problem.
I plan to investigate further this week...
- It does have big signals attached to the side mirrors... (bad light switch)
- Circuit City installed a stereo according to some paperwork...
- Verify Tan wire to pin R/dash, and Purple wire to pin P/running lights...
Your welcome,
Sorry to hear the new switch didn't solve the issue, but at least that part is eliminated as a possible culprit. be sure to keep the old switch as an emergency spare, since the new one didn't solve the issue it is likely there isn't anything wrong with the old switch.
Now you'll just have to investigate the wiring to see if there is a short, or if someone has spliced in a wire where they shouldn't have.
I wonder if a bad ground could cause this? Or if a positive that's hooked to ground somewhere could allow electricity to flow back through, thus causing things to be on when they're not supposed to be?
You need to chase down the 12v power that is going to your lights and through your switch with an automotive test light, and figure out what is going on (where power in being introduced into/through the switch). You will have 1 hot i believe going into the switch, sounds to me like you have that, AND the presence of a hot wire on the down hill side of the switch?
Quote
But are the running light off now you have the switch out?
Did this get answered?
If you have lights on when the head light switch is out of the system, your problem is definetly down wind of the switch.
Quote from: legomybago on July 29, 2014, 11:16 AM
QuoteBut are the running light off now you have the switch out?
Did this get answered?
Good question... I did not see the post earlier. ... I'll check and post what I find.
QuoteBut are the running light off now you have the switch out?
The running light question just got a little more complicated... But first, NO, the dash and instrument lights DO NOT go off when the switch is out. They're still always on. As for the running lights, it just got a little more complicated because yesterday I started cleaning all the electrical connections inside the battery compartment, and now I'm having trouble replicating the running lights "always on" problem... It's as though cleaning wire connections has KINDA fixed it... Very weird... Maybe the running lights and instrument/dash lights are two separate problems?
Could someone pull the plug off their headlight switch and compare the wiring to mine... I have 5 wires going in...
Also worth noting. When my battery disconnect is "ON", the round white insulator(?) inside my headlight switch gets HOT ENOUGH TO BURN your hand, regardless if the lights are on or off. If you look at the 2nd picture below, you can see the plug receptacle in the upper left corner got so hot it melted.
Is this what you mean by "battery cutoff"
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F41TUSFXv7RL._SX300_.jpg&hash=6b13bee3567ff96d19a624fb61ed36b0828913ed)
That is not a battery cutoff rather it is a dual battery cross connect relay operated by the DUAL/NORM/MOM switch.
DUAL - cross connects chassis and house battery so engine can be used to recharge house battery
NORM - Chassis and House batteries are not connected
MOM - Allows you to use the house battery to assist the engine battery to start the engine.
Quotethe round white insulator(?) inside my headlight switch gets so hot, IT WILL burn your hand.
That tells me the source for the AUX battery relay switch power is coming from the instrument panel light dimmer circuit (bad juju). Headlight switch is not designed for that current load. AUX battery switch should be sourced via a add on fuse path from the house battery.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi286.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fll120%2FBaileyDave%2FRV%2520Electric%2FDual-Norm-MOM.gif&hash=3e71c51a37bac5f7ad774e487746fd3ba74badbe)
74-75 Chassis Wiring diagram is available under the Chassis and Coach Wiring diagram section of the Manuals, Diagrams, & Tech Info section under members area selection above. Enlarge the 2nd page around the headlight switch to see which wire connects to which pin on the switch. More than enough detail on that drawing for what you need.
Dave
Sorry, battery disconnect is what I meant. It simply cuts off battery power to everything when it's off. When it's on, that's when I'm experiencing these problems.
It's this:
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.autorewire.com%2Fimage%2Fmasdisswitch.jpg&hash=d96874fd9f2fbd251b3bb27b9a6db2fadf696dc2)
Hi Jess,
The melted connector tells me there is something wrong there, or at least there was at one time. May be a melted or shorting wire elsewhere in that white (tan?) wire, causing your issue.
I'm providing a link to my posting on electrical items on a Dodge site I frequent, the first item covered is the headlight switch. Although the wire colors may not be the same, it will provide you with troubleshooting ideas. I am nearly 100% positive my switch works the same as yours. Your melted white (tan?) wire connector is "post I" in my link below, and may run your instrument lamps... At least part of the problem is in that circuit, so trace that white/tan wire all the way to the fuse panel, it's flowing way too much current, or has way too much resistance. Use some dielectric grease on those connections (NAPA).
http://www.sweptline.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34977 (http://www.sweptline.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34977)
In your picture of your harness, starting at top left and working counter-clockwise; you can check with a voltmeter, black lead to ground, red to each connector as follows:
B1: Big Black wire is power wire from alternator/battery lead, should be 12+v at all times when battery is on. Powers only the H (headlight) circuit.
R: Purple wire is for Running lights, should only be hot when the switch is pulled out (any position) and voltage is constant at 12+volts. Looks like this goes to a 'presence lamp relay' (powered from the Run Lmps fuse) and that relay case should be well grounded! :angel: Try manually grounding that relay and have someone watch those running lights when you do it. This relay (or ground thereof) could be your issue.
I: White/Tan wire for Instrument lights, should only be hot when the switch is pulled (any position) and voltage varies with turning the rheostat/knob. Sends power to the INST LMPS circuit on the fuse panel, and it looks like it takes a 2 (two) amp fuse. Check this fuse carefully.
H: Yellow wire for Headlights, should only be hot when switch pulled full out, 12+ volts. Provides power to foot dimmer switch.
B2: Pink wire is from the battery, via the fuse panel position for Exterior Lamps. Should be 12+ volts at all times when battery is on. This powers the R and I leads.
You can also test your switch using the Ohm setting of a voltmeter, but without any power or wires to the switch (any current/voltage will destroy an Ohmmeter). B1 and B2 spade terminals will be your main test sites.
Pure gold, PwrWgnWalt. A LOT of work went into providing that info. Thank you for sharing it.
I will delve into this tomorrow time permitting...
I wonder if the white wire has aluminum foil wrapped around the fuse W% ....You are really close to a fire, and I think you are really close to finding your issue now. Good info from PowerWagonWalt too :)ThmbUp
check back of radio bettin you'll find dash light with tied into a battery source most aftermarket radios don't require dash light wire so it ends up getting tied in with another wire
Just taking a break from a solid hour of unraveling electrical tape under the dash. Not a HUGE surprise, but checking the tan wire to the instrument lights at the switch revealed it's ALWAYS hot:
Quote from: PwrWgnWalt on July 30, 2014, 12:28 AM
I: White/Tan wire for Instrument lights, should only be hot when the switch is pulled (any position) and voltage varies with turning the rheostat/knob. Sends power to the INST LMPS circuit on the fuse panel, and it looks like it takes a 2 (two) amp fuse. Check this fuse carefully.[/size]
More wires to untape, then time to start tracing and see if I can find something spliced in. Man, I need to put a fan out there...
The orange wire coming off the back of the fuse panel goes to instrument lights. The pink wire goes to exterior lamps. They looked melted together so I pulled them apart...
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa131%2FJAEMERSON_%2F002_zps625729dc.jpg&hash=e9a66756e384d38cfe3cee7dd680c8b788cc58e7)
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa131%2FJAEMERSON_%2F003_zps5f3c88cd.jpg&hash=d98862e49146394b3ed76531b343e816531809a1)
Nothing behind the fuse box looked tampered with, as in, it came this way from the factory.
I wonder which wire got hot enough to melt the orange? Or were the two wires arcing through the orange plastic?
At any rate, pulling them apart seems to have fixed my dash lights "Always On" problem... :)clap :)clap :)clap
Feel free to take guesses at why two wires that are not always hot, created a "always hot" situation..?? i?? ...It's only fair that you have all the variables... Last week, I cleaned every electrical connection inside my battery compartment and it fixed the "running lights always-on" problem. Go figure.
I'm thinking I may have returned that new headlight switch to the store prematurely, however. It seems there are "dead spots" in my dimmer. As I dim or brighten the dash lights, they flicker off as I'm turning, until I hit another "good" spot, then they come back on at the correct brightness. My multi-meter at the switch confirms that when it shuts off, the voltage at the tan wire drops to 0... Does this sound like a bad switch i??
Here's a look at my current situation. I read somewhere that someone removed the front seat when working under their dash. Great advice. It's easy, and there's really no other way.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi10.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa131%2FJAEMERSON_%2F004_zpsd2a04e40.jpg&hash=b225b4fa1d36d0a4b77ccfcea962b6857da44bbb)
see the color of the copper on the pink wire crimp as opposed the bright copper color on the rest.....loose connections cause heat cause melted stuff......I would use rosin paste and solder all of those connectors to make a good connection that will cause no more problems.....don't leave it like that...its not fixed yet.
The pink wire is from the INT LPS Fuse.
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 04, 2014, 07:18 PM
The pink wire is from the INT LPS Fuse.
Dave, I'm thinking my fuse box might be different. It's labeled (from bottom, up):
INST LAMPS 2A (orange)
EXTERIOR LAMPS 20A (pink)
INTERIOR LAMPS 20A (don't remember color)
Unless you're correct, and they flip-flopped the orange and pink at the factory? I guess the only way to know for sure is follow those wires to their destination. ... But I have it buttoned up now and I'm not going back under there for that! N:(
Quote from: legomybago on July 30, 2014, 11:50 AM
I wonder if the white wire has aluminum foil wrapped around the fuse W% ....You are really close to a fire, and I think you are really close to finding your issue now. Good info from PowerWagonWalt too :)ThmbUp
I did find the PO had a 30A fuse in the 2A slot. ... Maybe that explains why the headlight switch got hot enough to melt the plug. ???
Opp's sorry. Went back and looked at the wiring diagram again. That was EXT LPS not INT LPS.
Whoops. That doesnt happen often.
i??
No prob. Thanks for clearing that up.
Glad to hear you found the issue and got it fixed! :)clap
The symptom you have with dead spots in the rheostat of the headlight switch is very common. A new switch is likely the most effective solution for this issue.
My guess is the orange wire got pulled up behind the pink wire (battery hot lead) during installation or other manipulation. Good inspection!
A few swipes with a little wire brush and some dielectric grease on every electrical connection and contact point can help avoid the voltage loss and high resistance of aged ( or new) connections.
Walt
It was indeed a bad headlight switch causing the intermittent dimmer.
THANKS AGAIN PwrWgnWalt, and EVERYONE else who chimed in on the subject!! :)clap :)clap :)clap
FYI, O'Reilly Auto sells the same Echlin headlight switch as NAPA for $2.50 less.
Now I'm in the middle of a little experiment. I'm leaving the MH's battery disconnect "ON", and checking battery voltage over the next few days. I'm just curious if there's any other draws, or if the batteries can now sustain a charge without the disconnect OFF.