My motorhome runs for a few minutes then dies, then I can get it to run and it dies again.
Things changed, spark plugs, carb rebuilt, fresh gas.
Sounds like a fuel filter?
did you look down the carb and make sure its getting fuel?
Yes there is fuel in the bowl, If I disconnect the fuel line before carb and turn it over fuel does spit out, So I know not a fuel issue.
Also when running I can see fuel go down the carb into the engine. It just doesnt stay running.
ok so spark it is. and if it has spark to start, but looses it after how long? (how long is the engine running for before it dies?)
Bad ballast resistor if you have one or ignition module. Ignition modules going bad will usually also give a hard start symptom. A ballast resistor that has gone out completely will start and shut off as soon as you stop cranking. The other thing to look at would be a bad coil, as it warms up the windings go open circuit in the coil. As soon as that happens it starts to cool off and they will reconnect and it will run again. Eventually it will just quit altogether if that is the problem.
It could run for a few minutes or only run for 10 seconds. It's never really the same.
QuoteAlso when running I can see fuel go down the carb into the engine. It just doesnt stay running.
As far as I can recall, you should only be really "seeing" fuel going down the carb is when you press the gas pedal down. The accelerator pump will then shoot a fine stream of gas down the throat. The rest of the time it is atomized. Is this what you meant?
Right now the accelator pump is giving me issues, but idling is the issue, I took the the ballast resistor out. I plan to ohm it out in the morning to see if it's bad. Right now it's 34 F out and both sides are reading 0 ohm.
I tested the ballast resistor which sat in the house all night, I have readings of 6.1 and .7
Do you guys think change it?
I changed it and no changed. I seen distributor cap loose and tighten and no change, I looked under the cap and looks like its rubbing into the plastic of the cap
Would need to see a pic of the cap to say anything about that though that would be a bad distributor shaft bearing. Could also be the coil heating up and opening.
Dave
well it appears the cap was loose. The next thing I am thinking of getting is a inline spark light that shows when the engine is sparking. I have no idea why it keeps dieing. The bowl is full fuel and i can see it going down into the intake.
Well I've had a similar situation in the past my self and it was the coil....... problem I didn't find it sooner is it was a brand new coil. You can always give it a try. I'm with Dave. :)ThmbUp
How do you troubleshoot a coil? I see ohm it out but not sure.
And if feeling nice could I get the part number?
You can check ohms however that would not show an open if it is a heat related issue.
Dodge 2495531
NAPA IC676
At Autozone, Advance Auto, or any regular car parts house just ask for a ignition coil to fit a 77 D300 pickup with a 440.
Dave
Dave thank you so much for your help. Does any of these help? I prefer o reilly as napa people are not on their "A" game.
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Coils+-+Ignition/C2377/C0334.oap?model=D300+Pickup+RWD&vi=1086690&year=1977&make=Dodge
The Masterpro, Delco, and BWD brands are basic stock coils which will work fine for you stock application. the others are more high voltage racing coils.
Dave
I bought new distributor rotor and cap. Also bought a new coil. All bwd brand. I'll post back results.
Well what's taking you so long. You got us all sitting on the edge of our seats. D:oH!
Sorry, motorhome outside. Currently -13 and -20 wind chill. maybe in few hours :)
That's no excuse, you are working from the inside. :D
Hey a couple of good shots of Jack Danial's and you'll never feel a thing.
Quote from: scubieman on November 27, 2014, 09:27 AM
Sorry, motorhome outside. Currently -13 and -20 wind chill. maybe in few hours :)
we just got back from a nice walk to the beach...... :-[
So I replaced the cap the rotor the coil. It's very cold here. It appears no spark at all. I have about 4-5 volts going to the coil. The positive small wire. I see 10 volts going into the ballast resistor. The engine will barely turn with battery charger connected. I am thinking I have something somewhere else causing bigger issues. Any ideas?
is the battery fully charged??
Not 100% sure, I do have electrically issues with power. However the motorhome did run like a champ then one day she just stopped liking me. So I am not 100% sure. I need to redo a lot of wiring.
The battery charger has been on it for about 5 hours so I guess I can check
Quote from: LJ-TJ on November 27, 2014, 12:24 PM
Hey a couple of good shots of Jack Danial's and you'll never feel a thing.
Try a couple of shots of JD down the carb. Engines are human too. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: scubieman on November 27, 2014, 01:10 PM
So I replaced the cap the rotor the coil. It's very cold here. It appears no spark at all. I have about 4-5 volts going to the coil. The positive small wire. I see 10 volts going into the ballast resistor. The engine will barely turn with battery charger connected. I am thinking I have something somewhere else causing bigger issues. Any ideas?
At -13, I'm not at all surprised. You need a fully charged battery.
Battery charger on since 9 this morning. No go. I'll maybe try tomorrow. It should at least act like it's firing which its not. So I'm confused.
power.......timing........air...........fuel.........
nothing should have changed besides power with the weather. But even then it should act like it wants to start but can;t.
So I assume it has to be power.
Whiskey.... pfft. Use good old Kentucky bourbon.
Perhaps when you changed the parts, something happened? Did you get the firing order correct? Is the cap on correctly? The rotor is on? No wires backwards?
Hi! New member here but some time under my belt.
You might do yourself a favor and block off the engine area and heat it up with an electric heater.
Rare, but you can ice over the spark plugs at low temperatures if the engine fires but doesn't stay running.
To prove out the ignition system, why not take a spare sparkplug, hook one lead to it lay it on the engine where you can see it and start the engine. The engine should run on 7 cylinders and with any luck you'll be able to see if the spark is still there when if engine stops running.
You are saying the engine will barely turn with the battery charger and your voltage is low at the coil. I am guessing you have electronic ignition which needs 10.5 volts minimum to work and I am also guessing you have a bad battery since you have a charger on it. This may have been your problem all along. You have to have a good battery that is capable of maintaining at least 10.5 volts while cranking at bare minimum. A battery charger will not do it. especially in that kind of cold. Also if your alternator is bad that could explain why it is stalling out, you are losing voltage. Seems there is more to this story than we have been told.
I have not had it running long enough to test the alternator lately. In the past about 2 months ago, I have tested it and get a solid 14.5 volts. The voltmeter when not connect to battery charger only reads like 10 - 11 volts. If it's running I get a solid 14 volts or so.
I show lots of slices in the wiring. I also plan to replace most of the wiring for the main feed from battery, I also plan to put a ground right on the engine. Right now with it cold and me getting sick there has been a stand still.
If I do get it running I may bring it to the shop a few blocks down to polish off the issues that I may not be able to fix.
I grin only because everyone of us have been exactly where you are now. We know what it took to fix our rigs and are interested in finding out what was wrong with yours. Hm? N:(
I think Rick is on to somethimg with the low battery voltage.
Quote from: scubieman on November 28, 2014, 05:02 PM
I have not had it running long enough to test the alternator lately. In the past about 2 months ago, I have tested it and get a solid 14.5 volts. The voltmeter when not connect to battery charger only reads like 10 - 11 volts. If it's running I get a solid 14 volts or so.
You need a new battery. That is a sign of a dead cell. You will never get it started on that battery no matter how long you leave the charger on there. That dead cell is not coming back to life and you could very well burn up your charger trying.
A good verification is to check with a good hydrometer This will tell you the condition of ea cell 1 bad one will make the battery junk A tip might be the water will be dirty also ! The colors on the float will tell you . Frank
That is IF you have a battery that has removable caps. Most maintenance free ones don't anymore.
I think I have bad wiring on to the volt meter. If I remember right I tested the battery and it checks out fine. I had 2 batteries. The one I took out tested fine and I believe this one did also. That is if I remember right. This was about a month ago and I have done lots of troubleshooting in the mean time. I plan to get all new wiring from battery to engine. From battery to starter. Also to correct junk wire on the alternator and also check all connections to the starter relay.
If the batteries are not a matched set then they will drag each other down pretty quickly. If you continue to have problems and the batteries are not the same it is best to buy to new batteries that are both the same.
Sorry Rick, Motorhome only has 1 starter battery in it, So therefore I had one battery in at a time. Maybe when it's show time I may put 2 but I doubt it
So I did some testing. I understand this was not load testing. It is 22 degrees out when tested. Battery voltage at battery was 12.45.
I tested the starter relay at 12.45. I tested the wire from alternator to starter relay and that was at 12.45.
I went into the motorhome and tested the "Batt" 12v fuse. That was at 12.45. I tried turning over engine and it spun very good. I had no gas in carb due to fuel tank issue so it didn't start.
Temp solution for gas is run out of a gas can. Both my fuel tanks have large deposits of something and need cleaning.
So onto Thursday since tomorrow will be colder. I will try to put some gas in her and hope she runs. If she does I know it's weather related.
Ok, Those readings are very good, as in just off the charger good. You need to take a reading after spinning the motor once and also take a reading while the motor is cranking. Those are the most important readings that will tell if the battery is good or not.
So recap...... You now have a new Coil
You now have a new Ballast Resistor
You now have a new Electronic Ignition Control Unit
and finally a new Voltage Regulator
You've changed the fuel filter
You've blown air through the fuel line back to the gas
tank
You've pulled the fuel line at the intake of the fuel
fuel pump,hooked another line to the fuel pump so
you can get the fuel pump to draw clean fuel out of
a gas can and it won't start and run. Right. Hm?
I don't think he has hooked up the portable tank yet, he said the carb was empty due to tank issues and was going to use a can. I would think that now that the battery is up it should start and run with all of those new parts. LJ, you mentioned a ECU but I did not see that being replaced looking through the threads, The symptoms could possibly support that as a problem. Anything electronic can heat up and go open circuit and then go back to good when it cools.
I'll update u guys tonight. At work.
Rick, I dont really have any help with motorhome so hard to test anything right now.
I have replaced cap and rotor.
I have replaced the coil
I have replaced ballast resistor
I have replace all 3 fuel filters
I have blown air through fuel line.
I have replaced air filter, spark plugs.
I have dropped primary tank due to rust issues into tank. I connected hose from the fuel line and put inside of a fuel can.
I have noticed the acceleratorq pump is not working so I assume when I put fuel down the carb to fill bowls I dump some crap down it.
I have rebuild carb. but it ran just fine after doing so.
I have fuel coming out of fuel line right before carb.
future updates.
I plan to put ground cable to engine since the current ground cables are rusty.
There are many cable connectors that have extra wiring showing and are only connected with a standard butt joint connector.I just ordering same connectors but with heat shrink.
I may need to dissemble carb to get accelerator pump working.
However the engine dies with plenty of fuel going down the carb.
Vacuum is around 15-16. I have checked several lines and unable to get it higher.
Voltage at diagnostics center is 14.5 (if I remember) when I had the engine running fine.
Hope this helps you.
What has NOT been changed
Voltage regulator
:)rotflmao :)rotflmao Well yah got me. The only thing left is the voltage regulator............why not you've done everything and everything I can think of and everything I did when I had a similar problem. Wow. Well all I can say is change the voltage regulator and I'm done i?? you got me buffaloed D:oH!
Have you read this thread? http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,3424.0.html (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,3424.0.html)
Dave
Quote from: LJ-TJ on December 03, 2014, 08:24 PM
:)rotflmao :)rotflmao Well yah got me. The only thing left is the voltage regulator............why not you've done everything and everything I can think of and everything I did when I had a similar problem. Wow. Well all I can say is change the voltage regulator and I'm done i?? you got me buffaloed D:oH!
LJ, I would do this, but motorhome needs to run first. It wont run even with battery charger on and set to 10 amps.
slow down....is it not cranking or not starting........cranking battery/starter......starting....start with timing double check you could have jumped time....may need timing chain
remember I said....power.....timing......air.......fuel......and err exhaust too :D
motors are simple air pumps ......not magical machines with emotion
will it start with starting fluid????don't use too much you could blow a head off :'( :'(
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on December 03, 2014, 08:48 PM
Have you read this thread? http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,3424.0.html (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,3424.0.html)
Dave
I bought the service manual for my model off this site. I went through all the pages. So far I realize I have a lot of maintenance work so I am seeing once if one of them fixes it.
Examples are bad connections.
Quote from: pvoth on December 03, 2014, 09:04 PM
slow down....is it not cranking or not starting........cranking battery/starter......starting....start with timing double check you could have jumped time....may need timing chain
remember I said....power.....timing......air.......fuel......and err exhaust too :D
motors are simple air pumps ......not magical machines with emotion
will it start with starting fluid????don't use too much you could blow a head off :'( :'(
I have not tired for a while(a week) since it has been cold. From what I have found it will start but it will not stay running. Yes i think my engine is having issue with electrical. Yet I know I have carb issues so I may fix that first.
Also I do not have a timing gun.
If it will start and run for a minute or two, especially at or close to idle, then the timing chain has not jumped. The ignition timing is good enough for now. I agree you need to rebuild and clean the carb very well. Trying to get something running like this with old dirty parts can be a nightmare. I will usually try it with the old parts a few times and if I don't have success then I do a complete tune up, including carb rebuild and new fuel pump and all filters. Eliminate all of the worn stuff right off the bat and then when you do get it running that is that much less you have to do in the future.
so what you are saying is if you put gas down the carb it will start and run for a few seconds and quits. Then it sounds like you have a problem in the carb sounds like you are running out of fuel in the float bowl sounds like the float bowl needle valve is stuck or when you took the carb apart you might have bent the float bowl and the needle valve is not allowing fuel in the fuel bowl . take the top off and adjust the float
Shoot one last trick. Go to the dollar store and buy one of those plastic mustard, catchup,vinagar jugs and fill it with gas. Start the rig and very carefully and very slowly squirt the gas down the carb and see if it keeps running longer than normal. Hm?
That is a good way to burn yourself down! One slip, one bad plug wire, one backfire and the container is on fire along with your hand and instinctive reaction is throw it. Now the inside of the RV is covered with flaming gasoline. NOT very good advice. Let him go ahead and run a line from the pump to a container and be safe.
A bit safer
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.machinemart.co.uk%2Fimages%2Flibrary%2Fproduct%2Flarge%2F05%2F051710409.jpg&hash=88dc8b79bcab7c3f8d277d57976361a7bf516953)
Quote from: joev on December 04, 2014, 08:34 AM
so what you are saying is if you put gas down the carb it will start and run for a few seconds and quits. Then it sounds like you have a problem in the carb sounds like you are running out of fuel in the float bowl sounds like the float bowl needle valve is stuck or when you took the carb apart you might have bent the float bowl and the needle valve is not allowing fuel in the fuel bowl . take the top off and adjust the float
I see fuel in carb through air vent before during and after it dies.
Quote from: LJ-TJ on December 04, 2014, 11:38 AM
Shoot one last trick. Go to the dollar store and buy one of those plastic mustard, catchup,vinagar jugs and fill it with gas. Start the rig and very carefully and very slowly squirt the gas down the carb and see if it keeps running longer than normal. Hm?
I already did this lol. Still alive. However I think this is how dirt got into carb.
Also when doing this I did back as far as I could. I also bought a fire extigesger
D:oH! Well mate I'm out of ideas. If it had backfired out of the carb I would have said the timing was out. I'll sitting on the edge to see what you come up with. Good luck. :)ThmbUp
I think of taking the carb off.
well check out the carb if its not the problem I am interested in what you find out is
It will also backfire out of the carb if it is running too lean, which can happen with a clogged carb OR someone pouring gas in the carb as it runs out. Hint, hint.
Don't get me wrong, I do pour gas down carbs to get things running but not when I am sitting inside of a RV where things can, and will, go bad real fast.
Think I found issue, Opinion time.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-AUcoDw8JcwE/VIKD5Og-SHI/AAAAAAAAHX0/yK-5w3ttGV4/w305-h542-no/20141205_220737)(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6g20Rl7Pt-s/VIKD6QmBj_I/AAAAAAAAHX8/j8WU6fbtCqc/w305-h542-no/20141205_220728)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-89z3vorGkpA/VIKD7viEErI/AAAAAAAAHYE/MOf0tcjb4Q0/w305-h542-no/20141205_220718)(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-o4KNbFbuBHc/VIKD8uPq0gI/AAAAAAAAHYM/zitPrlY_qCk/w305-h542-no/20141205_220711)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-21XT5wLXGPo/VIKD92SIuhI/AAAAAAAAHYU/IoTy3L3nYD4/w305-h542-no/20141205_220705)
I have been following this post and I didn't see where you changed out your electronic ignition control unit. If you haven't, maybe that is causing the problem. Also, if you have replaced it, ensure that it is the proper replacement. My engine had a "5 pin" control unit and I tried replacing it with a "4 pin" unit but it wouldn't even start afterward. Of course, I was told that it didn't make any difference, they were all the same and this was just the "updated" version. I then ordered the correct unit, (of course cost way more!!) and it has performed flawlessly since then. Rick
Your right Rick I have not changed that out. However if I have a very dirty carb and very dirty fuel tank why not start there first? I thank you for your input I really do but these fixes are for sure issues now and I should try it first. If it doesnt run after this I will for sure look into replacing that.
Issue Resolved:
I finally got the motorhome running. I turned out to be a dirty carb and two dirty fuel tanks. When the fuel tanks got clogged up I would dump fuel down the carb and the bowl to fill it up. I must of been sloppy and grabbed some of the bad gas with debris and put it down the carb. I did run 5 minutes just fine. It did die once but I believe I had a adjustment off on the carb so I twisted the screw out a bit. Once I did that it ran like a champ. I need to get fuel tank resolved which I have all parts just need to put together but I am waiting a few days to do that. Then I need to buy fresh fuel and see it pur like a kitten.
Maybe if ONE of these days it runs good enough I can finally start the restore inside. So much to do but so little time.
I have 5 months to finish restore(I hope) and dont think I will make dead line which isnt all that big of a deal.
:)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao Well just think you shouldn't have any trouble with coil, ballast resistor etc,etc,etc :)rotflmao Well done. Congratulations.
If the tanks are full of junk they will need to come out and be cleaned.
well great to hear that it was the carb and fuel tanks dirty fuel is a nasty thing.good luck with cleaning the tanks
Quote from: Rickf1985 on December 07, 2014, 07:45 PM
If the tanks are full of junk they will need to come out and be cleaned.
No worries. Both are out. The one got cleaned today. The metal one I will have rebuilt. Too much rust for my liking.