Bought this 1978 Beach-Craft 27' CB (center bath) at a storage auction for $2 per cubic inch of engine displacement. Came with most of its original paperwork and a bunch of keys, but no title and no ignition key. After some effort and two 'VIN inspections', got her registered and licensed. Had a locksmith make an ignition key. The previous owner is said to have been a meticulous mechanic; and all engine, tranny, brake, etc. fluids appeared to be fresh and clean. After changing the main fuel line and filter, charging the 12v battery, adding 10 gallons of gas and a can of Seafoam, got her started. Idled in "N" for a bit, then got her to move out of the ruts created from sitting for 4-5 years. After calling to get insurance coverage ($126 per year; no comprehensive or collision) and a little more tinkering (battery was audibly overcharging, 'bubbling'), drove her 1/2 mile to the truck stop for some air in the tires and several gallons of gasoline. Then drove her 16 miles home. It's a 1977 Dodge M500 chassis with a 440-3 engine, 727 3-speed automatic transmission, and Dana 70HD rear axle. Here's our "to-do" list:
1. Roof appears to have a slight leak in rear, so will first be working to fix that with Dicor "Metal RV Roof Coating" and self-
leveling LAP Sealant.
2. It is missing the refrigerator ("refer")... the paperwork suggests it was a Dometic, either a RM 76/77 or a RM 100.
Will be trying to figure out what refer to put in its place.
3. Figure out the house 12v system (need to get a couple of 6v batteries)
4. Get the 5 KW Onan generator running.
Then, when the weather warms up in the spring,
5. Test the fresh water system and pump; and
6. Test the LP (propane) system and appliances (range/oven, water heater, air heater); and
7. Test the 2 overhead A/C units (I read that only the front one runs on the 30 amp shore power service; rear only runs
when the generator is powering the MH)
Here are some pictures of the old beast (click for larger pics):
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs5.postimage.org%2F97hcudjmr%2F1978_Beach_Craft_Front.jpg&hash=a072652a2fd64c08c095560ed2e8f84e350efeee) (http://postimage.org/image/97hcudjmr/) (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs5.postimage.org%2F98vw1jaub%2F1978_Beach_Craft_Right_Side.jpg&hash=41d1f38929ebe3f9bd595fc8b0949756064bb46e) (http://postimage.org/image/98vw1jaub/)
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs5.postimage.org%2Fi6glyw3ab%2F1978_Beach_Craft_Left_Rear.jpg&hash=af1e8af18f811b2e927c548036f7c56f99b64370) (http://postimage.org/image/i6glyw3ab/) (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs5.postimage.org%2Fsukcxqd9f%2F1978_Beach_Craft_Interior.jpg&hash=e727815f6ebb0affb6f0a280ea691be16774bf3f) (http://postimage.org/image/sukcxqd9f/)
Your input, hints, helps and experiences are all welcome... this is our first MH, and this site has already proven to be a wealth of information !
WOW! Nice ride. Well done. :)ThmbUp
Very nice find. I bet the tires are thumping quite a bit from getting flat spotted.
Thanks LJ-TJ, we'll see if it turns out to be as good as I hope it turns out to be...
oldR&R - they do! Even though they are radials, it was thumping a bit on the way home. Hope that will go away after a while, and there are no broken belts in the tires (had that once in a pickup truck tire; man! was it outta balance!
More later as I we have spurts of "warm" weather here...
Well if there radials? What size are the tires. If ya can see your way clear I wouldn't take a chance on them. Maybe grab a set of in expensive tires to get you by until you can buy some new ones. No cents in taking a chance and wrecking an investment for the lack of a cheap set of tires.
That is a really neat looking coach! :)ThmbUp
When it comes to sealing the roof, make sure you don't use that fibrous silvery crap...it doesn't hold up. Make sure whatever brand you use says White Elastomeric roof coating. Brands include Kool Seal (the best stuff), Henry (way cheaper and almost as good, available at Home Depot), and Black Jack, available at Lowes. I've had good luck with them all, but the Kool Seal tends to stay whiter longer.
880 bucks is a dang good price, and sure is one awesome looking ride! Congrats!
Kev
I would do the roof with liquid EPDM rubber, that stuff is great. Pretty expensive too :(
:)rotflmao Your surly not going to have a problem finding a great roof treatment or information on how to apply it. Just do a search. Oh and your not going to be short on arm chair quarter backs either. You might want to check these guys out. Lauren and I just used the product and just love it and it's guaranteed for 10 years. :)ThmbUp
- Oooops http://www.polycoatings.com/rvroof.html
Quote from: LJ-TJ on November 14, 2012, 04:35 PM
Well if there radials? What size are the tires. If ya can see your way clear I wouldn't take a chance on them. Maybe grab a set of in expensive tires to get you by until you can buy some new ones. No cents in taking a chance and wrecking an investment for the lack of a cheap set of tires.
They are 8R-19.5 Tread is quite good, but as I've read, the life of the tire usually ends before the tread wears out (UV, ozone, etc. attacking the rubber, resulting sidewall cracking) I probably exaggerated a bit on the 'thumping', but they will get a good checking out before we hit the road with them next year - and will be replaced if in doubt. You are spot-on! Not an area to take a chance on.
We're going to clean off the old coating(s) from the aluminum top, clean it extensively, put down some Eternabond tape on the fiberglass-to-aluminum joints (across front and rear), use Dicor LAP seal (and maybe more Eternabond) around all fixtures, then give the whole roof several thin coats of Dicor "Metal RV Roof Coating". We'll cover the Eternabond with it, too. The Dicor coating is an elastomeric, 100% acrylic coating (no metal gunk in it) that claims to be flexible and rubber-like, and comes highly recommended for this climate by more than one of the local RV shops.
I'm all ears for tips and tricks on doing the roof. We figure its an area we don't want to have to do over sooner than needed, and it isn't worth skimping on. We plan to repair/replace any top fixtures that need it before putting down the coating. Was thinking of some new-style covers (like for fridge & the air vents) and will ensure the a/c gaskets are 100%, too. I'm a big guy, and am a little timid about getting up there and walking around... is there a 'best' way to keep me from damaging the roof & structure when climbing around up there doing this stuff?
Depending on how big you are and how soft your roof is, just step lightly, keep closer to the sides when possible since the closer you are to the wall structure the stronger the roof area is...leverage principles and all. And if you are going to be working on one thing or area for a long time, it doesn't hurt to sit indian style to spread your weight over a larger area, or even lay down while working. I went from 265lbs down to a healthy weight of 189lbs, and I'm still careful when I walk on the roof and work on stuff.
8R-19.5 is a pretty common size of tire, still readily available. Michelin makes them, but they aren't cheap! 450+ a tire! I just put Sampsons on the front of our coach and they seem to be fine...time will tell about their longevity, but they certainly have a great road feel and are a great steering tire. And you can still find them for as cheap as 120.00 a tire. There are other brands out there too, like Firestone, which cost somewhere in between. Just take a close look at the sidewalls and make sure there aren't any cracks in the tires you have. And check your spare too, and make sure its not dryrotted! Check both sides of it! We had a flat this summer, and when I pulled the spare out of its holder, the back side of it, the side I couldn't see when just removing the cover, was deeply cracked and dry rotted! We made it the rest of the trip, some 600 miles, but we shouldn't have! That tire shouldn't have even held air it was so bad...lol! You can also check the DOT code on the side of the tire to tell how old they are. Its recommended that you shouldn't run tires past 7 years, even if they look good.
Have fun restoring your old beastie! Sure is a neat looking coach!
Kev
- My self personally was not comfortable walking around or sitting on my roof so what I did was took a 2X10 and screwed a 2X2 on each end so the 2X10 wouldn't let the 2X10 slip off the roof and then moved it along the roof as required. I then took a 4X4 sheet of plywood and laid it on the roof in the areas I was going to work on. It spread my weight out over a greater area. So some were on the sit is a photo log of how Lauren and I did the roof on our 1975 21footer Winnebago Brave. Like I've said before you may really want to give it a serious look
- http://www.brentwoodcoatings.com/rvroof.html (http://www.brentwoodcoatings.com/rvroof.html). It really is an incredible product. :)ThmbUp
Update:
The weather has been off-and-on "warmish" (in the 40's) lately, so have been doing a few things as able:
Got the battery box wiring sorted out, I think. For now, am using a 12 volt battery just to test everything (had one lying around) before buying two 6-volt Golf Cart Batteries. Everything seems to work as it should, except there is one burnt-out reading lamp bulb and the water pump (whole fresh water system) remains untested.
The monitor panel seems to work as it should, although we cannot yet tell if the Fresh Water, Gray Water, and Black Water tank level indicators work - they are all empty now. The house battery indicator seems to read nicely! Also discovered the old Wemac LP/propane gauge was broken and have ordered a replacement (VDO 301-303D Fuel Gauge).
With the 12V system checked out, began looking into the 120V system. After finding both of the circuit breaker (CB) panels and turning all of the CB's OFF, plugged her in to shore power (15 amp)... but not before using a trick I learned on this site about testing the outlet for polarity, etc. with a little voltage tester plug (even though I wired the outlet myself, one never knows!). Turned the MAIN 30Amp CB on, then the 15A breaker... it was power to the house - the light we'd plugged in came on, the heater fan turned on, and the converter began to buzz; so knew I was getting power. A quick check with the voltmeter at teh house battery terminals showed 13.8 volts; the old converter/charger works! Then turned on the next CB, a 20A... nothing seemed to be affected - could be for the A/C or the (missing) fridge? Then switched on the last CB on this panel, another 20A, and the little plug-in heater the PO left turned on... this is run from a switched outlet it appears he installed. Let this go for about 30 minutes, then unplugged from shore power. House battery definitely got a boost and was reading higher than the 12.6 volts I started with.
It would appear the other 120V Panel is for the Generator, so I left them alone for another day. (Looks like to use the genny for 120V power, I must plug the shore power cable into a receptacle located just inside the MH at the power cord hatch.)
Been working on the roof a little, too. The front cap (over cab area, side-to-side) where the aluminum meets the fiberglass has been scraped clean using a variety of tools, from scrapers to an oscillating tool, but the wire-wheel worked the best ... using a light touch. Cleaned the area with acetone real well, then laid down a bead of Dicor self-leveling Lap Sealant on the seam. Once it skinned good (not too long), we put down a 4" wide strip of Eternabond; and rolled it, and rolled it, and rolled it some more to activate the adhesive in the 40 degree weather.
Also got to work on the cooling system. Found out the 2" radiator hose from the radiator to the funny-looking fill extension is a stock bulk item at most parts stores - so got a 8" length of 2" I.D. Gates Green Stripe and a couple of clamps. The old radiator caps (both on the filler extension and the radiator top) were replaced with new 16 lb. caps. While taking off the hose, found out there was a layer of fine sludge lying the bottom of the hose and extension. What appeared to be wonderfully clear antifreeze/coolant belied the fact that there is likely a problem of dirt or block-casting material contamination (very common in Mopar/Dodge engines of that era). So, the radiator is coming out for a thorough cleaning and test, the block will be flushed, new radiator hoses will be used (although the old ones still have the tags on them and appear fairly new). Figure I might as well do it while it's easy - and already half done with the radiator removal. While all this was going on, noticed a small crack in the radiator cap neck of the extension, so a day and $21 later I had it back from the radiator shop with a new neck soldered on.
Found a handful of old MH's at a nearby junkyard - all pretty well trashed and old. A Pace Arrow and an Executive (both early 70's), as well as a couple of unknowns from the 60's! One of those late-60's units still had what appeared to be the original fridge in it... a nice 'avocado' color. The Executive had a lot of the round amber clearance light covers still on it if anyone is in need. There are 3 early Dodge dash-shifters and instrument panels available, too. Anyway - what I was after was a spare for the M500 chassis, since we didn't get one with the MH - lucked out and found the correct 5-hole 19.5 wheel.
Otherwise, just been figuring out what the priorities are to get her ready for our first RV experience together this spring.
Valve Cover gaskets are on order (wanted the best I could find, so got Fel-Pro Q1612 rubber coated fiber)
Thermostat housing / water neck gaskets are on order (Fel-Pro Q35145)
More later as the work progresses,
- Walt
Looks like your doing it right. Got any more pic's of the interior. i??
Excellent! You'll be out camping before you know it!
:)clap
Kev
That is one wicked-cool ol breadbox! You must be very proud of it and I hope you enjoy it to its fullest!
Snowed 6" here last night and went from 40* to 4*... BRRRRRRR i??
But the delivery truck brought the brand new Norcold N641.3 refer today. Was not really looking for a 3-way fridge, but the price was too good to pass up at $760, including delivery. Almost as much as the entire MH cost us! D:oH!
And yes - it is brand new, so the recall is not applicable, per Norcold's recall site and it's serial number.
So this weekend, assuming the weatherman is not telling another fib and it will truly be in the 40's again, I will work to get it installed. May need to do some modification to the open cabinet - Norcold states it needs to be a tight fit and vented correctly for the cooling effect to work right.
May also have to run 12 volt power to the refer... I saw the 120V outlet in there, and a LPGas line (copper, IIRC).
Speaking of LP: any hints on hooking the refer up to to the propane line?
Or other tips on installation?
- Walt
Use flair fittings and only flair fittings on copper propane lines. Don't trust compression fittings. Other than that, its just a matter of bending your existing line gently without kinking it, and possibly having to add an extension to it with a flair fitting if its too short.
Nothing wrong with a 3 way fridge as long as you don't use it on 12 volts...lol! It'll suck your batteries down to nothing in no time. In fact, the only time to ever use 12 volts to operate your fridge is when driving long distances, so your alternator can keep the batteries charged while driving...and then immediately switch it over to propane or AC as soon as you arrive at your destination. We have a two way fridge and just keep it on propane when driving.
In any case, you'll need 12 volts going to the fridge no matter what. Even a 2 way fridge uses 12 volts to operate the circuit board and ignitor and whatnot.
Have fun! They aren't all that hard to put in, just big and heavy. And you don't need nearly as much room over the fridge as they say you do. Our fridge is only about 6 inches below the roof line, and we've never had a problem with it.
Kev
Walt if the propane line has been open and not used make shure you blow it out (spiders etc) Be prepared to replace the floor where it sits most are pressboard and if ever wet are junk A roof vent is a must and adding a 12V fan for circulation in extremely hot weather is easier wile compt is empty (i made one up from a audi a/c fan and a paint can ) it will need a switch and a pilot light Measure your door opening before trying to pass refer through it Frank
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi115.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fn314%2FLiv42dayOK%2FCW%2FAttachments%2Ffroggy1936%2F78%2520Beechcraft%2520refurbish%2Frefrigerator1011_zpsbbbaf6fa.jpg&hash=f14a742cd5f5c066043f2cdb71edc7a37e8ca8e3)
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The vent fan was fastened at the top and really helps with air circulation when parked in hot weather I use thermometers in bothe the freezer and refrigerator and can see temp change inside Frank Fan squirell cage is placed inside 1 end of metal can PVC outlet fitted on side and pringles can used for intake on other end This fan move massive amts of air !
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Thanks Kev & Frank!
"Flair fittings only" it will be!
I'll definitely take my time and use your tips; want to make sure this gets in there right.
I'll try to post some pics of the work, before & after.
- Walt
Been busy working on the Ol' Beast when mother nature and other duties allowed... so here are some updates and pictures:
The refer is now in - I just have to hook up the LP Gas to it now.
This is what it originally looked like from outside, looking in through the service panel opening
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag43%2FPwrWgnWalt%2FP1150749_zps539e0b86.jpg&hash=670436c9c6d4e1bc32fd60bff29979324abd77ee)
Here's a shot from inside, after some new plywood was added to the floor and some painting done (also added some 1" insulation when adding side panels later, since the new refer is a little smaller than the old one was):
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And here is the new Norcold 641 3-way installed:
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Also been busy re-working the old 12 volt (12VDC) system.
First, I wanted to get the monitoring systems in place (before installing the new Converter/Charger and getting new Coach batteries).
This is a picture of the revised Monitor Panel (added the VDO LP Gauge on the right, and a little green LED at mid left for the Blue Seas ACR. When the LED is lit, it indicates both the Coach and Starter batteries are charging from either the converter/charger or the alternator). Also installed the Intellitec BD2 Battery Disconnect Panel and a Trimetric RV-2025 Battery Monitoring System above the panel. Fishing & routing the wires was one of the hardest things to figure, but some old wire clothes hangars made it pretty easy:
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag43%2FPwrWgnWalt%2FPanels_zps6341ce51.jpg&hash=0ef84995848ba89f10ac9c921a0c8894b8793690)
And here is where I ended up hiding all the gadgets that make the new stuff work... I installed two heavy duty plastic battery boxes under the coach, attached to the plate-steel battery box under the entry area (passenger side):
Here's my "Positive Box". It contains both Battery Disconnect Solenoids, the Blue Seas ACR-6710, and a positive bus. The opening faces to the rear of the coach:
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I used some wood to provide a neutral barrier between the mounting bolts and the interior of the box, countersunk the holes, and covered them with white plastic hole plugs. Shouldn't have any shorts. This is what the inside looks like:
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This is the "Negative Box". It's a bit smaller than the positive box, and is mounted to the front side, so the opening faces the front of the coach.
Here it is all covered up:
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and here's a peek at the 500 mA shunt for the Trimetric 2025-RV and the Negative Bus inside (no wires/cable hooked up just yet):
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And to make all this work as well as it can, I visited Billings Battery & Cable (in Billings, MT) and had a great talk with Todd, the owner. He made up these custom battery cables for me out of 1 ga. welding cable (the short red ones are 4 ga) with end lugs to fit my specifications. Very nicely done & a great guy to work with!
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Nicely Done. :)ThmbUp
As the weather continues to get nicer up North here, have been able to get a few more things done and decided it was time to post some pictures...
Found I had an intermittently (then completely) failing voltage regulator, so replaced both the plug and the regulator with NAPA parts VRC38 and VR38, respectively (this is the MOPAR electronic voltage regulator, from ~'70 and up, with the little triangular plug). Found a non-standard relay in the wiring, too... it turns on with the ignition key to supply battery power to the voltage regulator and ballast resistor. Not in the M500 Service Manual or the Beach-Craft Owner's Manual, so assume a PO put it on (looks like it, by the wiring) - the relay is pictured here at the back of a greasy/dirty engine:
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag43%2FPwrWgnWalt%2FP1150910_zpsea2a3fbe.jpg&hash=b99a5290da6407986681c811312c9e2c770e175d) (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/PwrWgnWalt/media/P1150910_zpsea2a3fbe.jpg.html)
Also found melted wires at the Starter Relay, and a hack-job of repairs to what were the fusible links. D:oH! If ever there were a place that needed to be well-wired, this is proably it - full battery power and lots of amps flowing around there. No wonder she cranked so slowly and poorly! While in that area running my new battery cable and repairing wires, replaced the Starter Relay, too (NAPA), for good measure. She cranks & starts strongly now!
Here's a picture of the Power Panel area with the engine running:
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag43%2FPwrWgnWalt%2FMonitorPanels-Alternator2_zps5ee84287.jpg&hash=0e54cd2b86be68c2ae4583aedebd5994d90990c3) (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/PwrWgnWalt/media/MonitorPanels-Alternator2_zps5ee84287.jpg.html)
And here's a close-up of the Trimetric TM 2025-RV just after engine start-up:
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In the second picture, at top left, is the Intellitec BD-2 Battery Disconnect. Here it is evident the two battery banks are "On" ("Use") by the bright red LEDs. I found this control panel new online for cheap ($28), but the real sticking point (for me, anyway) was the wiring... they wanted around $80 for it. I was able to find some 10-conductor sprinkler wire at Home Depot for a few bucks (even has the same color wires as the instructions and the solenoids call out!), and after much searching found a 12 slot Card Edge Connector w/solder tabs (TRW 250-12-170) to use on the back of the control panel ($2).
At top right of picture 2 is the Trimetric unit - it is showing a green LED for a state of "Charging", and 14.4 volts for Battery 1 (the Coach Bty bank). I used the Trimetric wiring since it was reasonably priced and comes in the kit package (along with the shunt).
Then, on the Beach-Craft monitor panel, the green LED I installed (Radio Shack pieces and parts) indicates the Blue Seas SI-ACR-7610 has automatically connected both batteries, because it sensed the charging voltage for 30 seconds.
In the last picture, I have pressed the "Select" button of the Trimetric to display the voltage of Battery 2 (the Chassis Bty). As indicated above, one would expect to see the same voltage reading on both battery 1 & 2, since they are effectively tied together with the ACR.
This all works the same way with shore power. When I plug in, the voltage climbs and the ACR will connect the Chassis Bty to also receive the charge. I can use the BD-2 to remove either battery, or both, from shore power charging (good for extended stays!), or can remove the Coach battery from the alternator's output (the BD-2 has a very nice lock-out feature that will not allow me to shut off the Chassis bty when the engine is running).
Other than running wires and figuring out where to put all this stuff (see previous posts in this thread), the process was straightforward and instructions generally good... Trimetric instructions were fantastic!
Nice.. I should go back to goodwill and grab the pilots flight computer and send it to you, it fits, that being a Beachcraft and all..
Wish I had a Beechcraft, too! A lot faster (read: "aerodynamic") than this Beach-Craft, fer sure!
(side note - a Beech is a wonderful airplane! Most are also a lot more aerodynamic than my Piper Archer...)
:)
Lol, I spelled Beech wrong.. But yeah, there was a comp at the goodwill here, was tempted to get it for myself tbh.. But I dunno if I will ever get started learning to fly for a while..
I have found 4 conductor trailer light wire to be useful for many projects. You can get it in fairly long lengths.
Looking good.
Dave
Dang. Great minds Dave. 25 ft. At Wally World cheap.
Knock on wood, so far everything seems to be working as it should on this ol' gal...
Latest Developments:
Finished roof repairs & reseal:
1. Replaced refer roof vent, holding tank vent pipe caps, and made 5/8" raised area at A/C units openings (idea from this site - put 5/8" plywood above steel roof frame, under aluminum roof skin)
2. Cleaned roof well with TSP and then Acetone; caulked in & around all seams and holes, and over any screw going into roof - used Dicor self-leveling LAP sealant.
3. Used Eternabond on all seams and a messed up area at vent pipe.
4. Put two good coats of Dicor elastomeric Roof Sealant (white) on - first at A/C unit sealing areas since they were removed to put in the raised area, then with A/C's back in place did the rest of the roof. Used wide painters masking tape (blue-kind) for a nice edge.
Got Onan 5.0 BGA Generator running today - and it works! (had been sitting for at least 5 years)
1. changed oil, oil fliter, air filter and both spark plugs. Checked fuel pump screen. Checked fuses, wires, etc.
2. she starts & stops at the genset, and from the panel inside, like it should.
3. Was finally able to test the second A/C unit with genny running, and it works great, too. woo-hoo!
Next 'To Do's":
Pull the valve covers, clean them, install new gaskets, and new rubber PVC/oil breather seals/grommets (local Dodge dealer had them!) - hopefully this will stop the oil leaking onto the exhaust manifold.
Plumb a new LP gas line to the refer (old one too short for new fridge) - got a valve at Ace hardware.
Install Powermax Boondocker 75 amp 4-stage charger; and
Fix fresh-water plumbing. I saw a split copper hose while doing all this other stuff...
Groovy!
Thanks Frederic;
Was greatly relieved the genset operates; tech at Onan said the carb would be shot after sitting (and it may be), and did not offer much hope of any easy way to resurrect it. He was also concerned about the electric fuel pump on this 5.0 BGA.
But, since it seems to run fine, guess I'll go with it "as-is" untill it doesn't work anymore... it did smoke quite a bit at first (from the oil I put in the cylinders, I suppose), but cleared up after a several seconds. Now I just have to adjust the electric choke - it seems loose and wants to work itself about halfway down - then produces what smells and sounds like a "too rich" condition.
Love your ride, just getting started in a very similar Class A myself. Best of luck with it.
Latest:
I have a big job this weekend...
Have decided to redo the PO's cobbled, spliced and bad job of wiring at the 120 vac and 12 vdc panels.
Have a new WFCO distribution panel, the proper 120 v CBs, and the 12 v ATC fuses to redo it. Will be slightly relocating the panels, to be visible and accessible (they are stuffed in a bad area now).
Plan to retain the OEM method of switching from shore to genny power - plug the shore line into the receptacle from the genny.
Am going to wire in 50 amp shore power, instead of 30 amp, to be able to run both a/c units from shore power (and, to make use of the 50 amp EMS box I have).
I believe I have a full understanding of what I need to do electrically, including checking the genny wiring to output 120/240 volts. ( I'm pretty sure it's just wired for 120; currently one genny leg powers the rear a/c only, the other powers the rest of the MH). Just have to combine the genny output into the new 50 amp receptacle.
Anyone done this and/or have suggestions, tips, etc.?
Thanks!
Just be careful about how you split the services between the 240VAC L1 and L2 leads. The amps on each leg should be balanced (distributed between L1 and L2) as closely as possible. What mode WFCO did you buy?
240VAC operation is a bit different fro m normal 120VAC. If you have a 20 amp load on L1 and a 30 amp load on L2 then, do to the way split phased 240VAC works L1 and L2 share 20 amps and only 10 amps is seen by the neutral lead. You will note that a neutral lead wire is only sized for 50 amps. 50 amps on L1 plus 50 amps on L2 is 100 amps total. L1 and L2 support each other (ie the 20 amps above) and the neutral lead picks up the difference (10 amps in this case). The neutral lead shall never see more than 50 amps at any one time (ie. L2 is missing but L1 has a 50 amp load)
Dave
Got a good deal on a brand new WFCO-8950 Ultra panel ($10). Wanted the one with the LED indicators for the 12 volt fuse panel, like (I think) you used, but couldn't pass this one up. Have thought about using the fuses that light up, but we'll see. Where I am putting the panel, it should be no problem to view them.
Generator: Onan 5.0 BGA-3CR/16004A (5000 watts, or 5.0 kW)
(3=voltage code for 120/240 single phase; C=Reconnectable; R=Remote Start; Spec "A")
120 volt: 41.6 amp
120/240 volt: 20.8 amp each leg
Good thoughts on being careful with the 240 volt. I'll be using 6/4 cable (6 gauge, 4 conductor wiring, cost $3.78/ft at my local Graybar distributor). Upon looking, it is currently wired for "120 volt, 2 wire" service (M1 & M3 joined, and M2 & M4 load wires joined inside genny junction box, behind start switch and fuse panel. Of note, all of my M wires are white, and are imprinted with the M#).
So, here's the plan... (please, anyone, let me know if I got something wrong!)
Will be 'reconnecting' so there is "120/240 volt, 3 wire output"; only M2 & M3 will be connected inside the junction box:
M1 will attach to the black 6 gauge wire of the 6/4 cable,
M2/M3 will connect to the white 6 ga. wire,
M4 will connect to the red 6 ga. wire, and
the green ground wire will attach to the genny case, as it is now.
From there, the 6/4 cable will run to the new 50 amp receptacle. The shore power line plugs into this receptacle to power the MH from the genny.
The shore line/house power cable runs from the 50 Amp plug end, through the Progressive Industries EMS-HW50C, then into the new WFCO-8950 distribution panel:
The Black wire (M1) will feed the left-side 50 amp main breaker,
the White wire (M2/M3) will connect to the Neutral buss,
the Red wire (M4) will connect to the right-side 50 amp main breaker, and
the Green wire (ground) will connect to the Ground buss (connecting only to the vehicle frame, not to Neutral circuit).
The rest of the circuit breaker ("cb") and house wiring is std from there on... just have to decide which side to put each circuit. Front A/C will go on one side (the EMS provides power to both lines (black and red) when using 30 amp adapter plug on shore power cable) rear A/C will go on other side (will only run 1 a/c at a time unless genny or 50 Amp service is connected).
Thanks!
-Walt
Here's a few pictures of a POs wiring of 120VAC and 12 Vdc service, placed under the bed area in a most inconvenient place...
From the factory, our MH apparently came with a rear 'gaucho' seating area with a table, that converted to a bed.
A PO converted it to a full time queen mattress sleeping area, and in so doing (sorta) re-did the wiring to be able to get at it through a small cubby door.
Here's an overview of the old, and here's what I've done so far to fix the poor carpentry work and electrical work...
Now isn't that interesting. In order to get into my rear storage area I have to lift the bed etc. Never crossed my mind to just install a door.Since I'm going to be modifying that part of the bago to do Dave's fix on my fuse panel I think that's a heck of an idea. That's why I love this site. You never know what your going to learn.
You can move things around to better locations. Just a matter of rearranging the wiring. All depends on how much "work" one wants to do.
Dave
The PO had a similar facia (sorta) that was in the same general location, but his door faced the other way so I couldn't access the furnace; it's handle prevented the furnace door from opening more than half way. D:oH! That was also the access point to stick your head in to see the 120 VAC circuit panels and 12 Vdc fuses, unless you lifted the mattress and thin (!! 1/4" !?) plywood base up, as in this photo.
The big freshwater tank (white) is visible here, along with the water pump (at top, which is the drivers side of the rear area).
When a PO made this into a fulltime bed, the carpentry work was very rough. Hard to see, but some of the crossmember supports are floating, one is even hanging, 'wired' to a smaller, original seat frame (center left of photo)!
So the original door location would have been in the lower right corner of this picture, taken before I tore out the facade and started working on the area...
Stumbled into a thought-provoking issue tonight I had not considered...
12 Vdc ground wires were previously all connected together at a buss (see pictures above). I know the common ground (12 Vdc negative) needs to go to chassis as the final terminus. However...
My new WFCO Panel only has busses for the 120 VAC side (one buss for ground, one for neutral), & 12 Vdc fused connections for the positive lines... nothing to tie the 12 Vdc ground wires together.
So - what's the best route to go with this?
Install a small buss for all of the 12 Vdc ground wires near the back of the distribution panel, or bind them all together another way? (and run to chassis)
Thanks for the great ideas!
- Walt
Typically the common buss collection point for auto and coach 12VDC is the vehicle chassis itself that is then directly tied to the battery. Thats why there is no common DC ground buss in the new distribution panel. However the converter itself normally has a ground wire going directly to the battery ground point to ensure proper voltage sensing. If you do have a group of ground wires, then yes you can use a separate buss either mounted to the chassis frame or run a ground wire from new buss to a chassis ground point.
Dave
Have decided that while I am fixing up the back end for the bed foundation, it is prudent to fix it all up.
A PO had replaced the original fresh water tank with a big, flat 56 gallon tank (39-1/2 x 60 x 5-1/2 inches), which takes up an inordinate amount of room. I don't know the size of the original tank, but a faint outline on the floor and height of original gaucho seating lead me to believe it was about a 30-36 gallon tank. I can fit a 46 gallons tank in the space available (max useable space about 20w x 15h x 48l), but wonder if that is needed, or if a smaller 36 gal tank will do. Like: http://www.ebay.com/itm/33-Gallon-Fresh-Water-Holding-Tank-for-RV-Camper-Trailer-Marine-/190721617428?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c67e4ee14&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/33-Gallon-Fresh-Water-Holding-Tank-for-RV-Camper-Trailer-Marine-/190721617428?pt=Motors_RV_Trailer_Camper_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c67e4ee14&vxp=mtr)
Will also be replacing wall paneling, ceiling panels, and cabinets at the rear, and resealing the windows. Will take pictures as I go...
The past several weekends have been busy, so have not had as much time as I'd hoped for, but am almost done...
The first picture is what it looks like when the paneling is removed (cabinets, wall paneling, ceiling, PO's water tank and all existing bed structure was removed). You'll see 1" square steel tubing serving as wall studs, and some doubling. 1" styrofoam sheet for insulation in the walls.
The red stuff is the spray-on adhesive Beach-Craft apparently used... it is not very 'sticky' any more, so I used some 3M-77 spray to hold stuff as I installed the new paneling and ceiling.
Third picture is of the ceiling. Here the structure is 1" x 2" steel tubing, with 2" white styrofoam insulation. Above that is a thin luan/ply sheet, then the aluminum roof. One of the styrofoam panels is out in this picture, and the plywood 'roof lift' surrounding the A/C area is visible.
The last picture is underneath, and shows the PO's liberal use of expanding foam to try to seal out the cold. All it did was trap moisture and pooch out the side of the MH a little. That came out, too.
Took out all the windows to do this job right, cleaned and re-sealed with a white butyl caulk when re-installing (from a tube, for 'Gutters & Rainspouts'). But first, had to cut the new paneling... not much of a selection anywhere around here, so ended up with this...
Windows were easy to remove - just unscrew (some were rusty and broke off) from inside, leaving a screw at each corner, while a helper outside holds slight pressure to make sure it doesn't pop out. Then take out last screws as helper applies inward pressure. Carefully removed aluminum inside trim and set aside out of the way. There's enough of a lip on the window frame that I could hold on as I then pushed the windows out and lowered them to my wife. The old putty tape was more like dust, way beyond it's useful life, and all the POs attempts to seal around the edges were obvious by all the assorted goop we had to clean off both window frames and the coach skin around the windows. Reinstallation was easy enough, just a reversal.
The last picture shows the new bed frame area and some work on the floor. The new fresh water tank will be in the back right.
Here's the work on the floor repair.
1) Here's the nasty part in the back driver's side corner. Will cut out the too-far-gone rot and replace the wood, and use the Rot-Doctor's CPES epoxy to strengthen and renew the wood that still has life in it.
2) Here's the CPES I used. It has a very liquid consistency, like water, and the old wood soaked it up like a sponge! All the dark areas in the photos are where I applied it (around edges). Used up the entire kit on this project. The tech guy I talked to before ordering cautioned that the volatiles in the epoxy might attack the styrofoam, but I tested a rogue piece and it had no ill effects on this fossilized stuff.
3) Here's the passenger side rear, behind the generator box.
4) And lastly, here's the repaired area - same photo angle as the first picture. Used a 5/8" piece of ply and was able to wedge it under the steel side structure, then tap it into place. It rests on the 1" x 2" steel cross beams under the ply. The original floor is held down with screws into the cross beams.
WOW!! I thought about making my twin beds in the rear ONE big bed but now I'm scared to tear it down that far and find something like that ??? . But that is some fine work you have been doing there.
It was really more difficult trying to figure out "what" to do, than actually doing it. The process of taking it apart was quick, and the most difficult part of putting it back together is just sourcing paneling, ceiling panel, and building the new cabinets.
The original paneling was rotted in a couple of spots, probably coulda worked around it, but wifey said she wanted all of it replaced.... so it got replaced.
Although we knew about the long-term leak when we bought this MH, it is a good lesson about keeping the roof leak free (and windows, and everything else too!).
Looks great! I'm hoping to get started on my 79 this weekend! I'm inspired now!
Update: got the bed platform all done, and the cabinet structures built and faced. Even got the blinds installed and the lights re-installed (wiring hooked back up, too).
Here's the cabinet framework installation, up against the new ceiling. Used 1" x 2" furring strips (cheap, but had to search hard for semi-straight ones!) for this main support structure. A brad nail gun (air) with 1-1/4" brads helped this go smoothly (Harbor Freight), and avoided split wood when attaching one strip to another. Used screws to attach framework to ceiling and to walls (where screws were added, a pilot hole was drilled in the furring strips to reduce splitting).
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag43%2FPwrWgnWalt%2FNewcabinetframe1_zps12bf9214.jpg&hash=5c8e7e63910e0e75386e3f459f8dc1ce089f24b3) (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/PwrWgnWalt/media/Newcabinetframe1_zps12bf9214.jpg.html)
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Then it was on to attaching the facia boards (stained hemlock) to the support structure. Used the air-nailer again, which makes the process so much nicer.
The new blinds are seen installed (ordered them online from Lowes, they are a simulated woodgrain, wide-slat vinyl/plastic). Very easy to install and operate, and are fairly lightweight.
Also got the shelving inside the cabinets installed after re-installing the under-cabinet lights (w/ LEDS) and taking care of the wiring. Now, just have to finish up by re-installing the cabinet doors and the trim.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag43%2FPwrWgnWalt%2FNewcabinetfacia1_zps1df4dd2a.jpg&hash=ea9fd150d7b8716cfdced329b697ba94d57b000a) (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/PwrWgnWalt/media/Newcabinetfacia1_zps1df4dd2a.jpg.html)
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Almost forgot that I finished up the bed platform after installing the new water tank and getting some of the PEX tubing run in the far back corner while the bed was out. I did finish installing plywood at the rear to completely cover the platform, and screwed it down good to the supports. There is also a 12" width of permanent platform under each end of the mattress, so lifting the bed does not interfere with the blinds, walls or windows (the mattress is a Queen, and is only 80" long).
In the first picture, I had not yet added the plywood at the far back. After doing so, I used 4 HD door hinges (stainless) from Home Depot to allow the mattress and bed-platform to lift (from the front, at the electrical distribution panel) to access the area underneath.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1298.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag43%2FPwrWgnWalt%2FRearBedplatform_zps0467513d.jpg&hash=07ff4601945ba3edf701da581581c49a6bd2ec50) (http://s1298.photobucket.com/user/PwrWgnWalt/media/RearBedplatform_zps0467513d.jpg.html)
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Looking great Walt, Good job - Dave
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Looks good! Do you use the plastic or metal stays for the blinds??
Sorry Stripe, missed your question... Not sure what a "stay" is, but... all of the blind is vinyl, the top mounts are white metal, and the clips to keep the bottom ends still and in-place are clear plastic. I've been looking for little metal clips for the bottom ends instead of the plastic, with no luck so far.
Ok, yeah, that is what I was asking about. I had plastic for a new set of blinds and still have metal ones for the two older sets that I still have in the 'Goose'...
Here's a couple of pictures of the new "Metal Hold Down Bracket" and "Pins" (or blind stays, blind keepers, blind clips, or blind hold downs... whatever they are called). These are for the 2" blinds, but they have all sorts of stuff for all sizes. Got them from www.fixmyblinds.com (http://www.fixmyblinds.com) for the whole MH and all the new blinds going up.
They work real nice - keeps the blind bottom end from swinging around, are more durable than the little plastic ones that came with the blinds, and still allows the blind to tilt. Quick to detach if one wants to raise the blind, too.
Doing all the plumbing has been real fun... not just replacing the old mix of (split!) copper pipe and various hose splices, but then we had to re-do the bathroom counter and sink, and the kitchen, too!
The bathroom sink is tricky - no real choices to replace the somewhat narrow (front to back) counter we have, so elected to go with re-doing the existing one using Krylon Plastic paint (rattle can, Chocolate Brown Hammertone). Used it on the medicine cabinet too. So far, seems to work great! Put new laminate down over the existing counter top (Tina picked that out, too), from Home Depot (WilsonArt, Breccia Nouvelle). A router sure makes that easier, along with a sharp knife and a file.
Tina has the decorative eye (I was fine with the yellow bathroom), so here's a before & after shot of the bathroom counter and colors she picked out:
The faucets (fixtures) are household types. 4" bathroom faucet, and 8" kitchen faucet (both on sale when purchased).
Reused the kitchen sink, but had to get new drains as the chrome plating was wearing off the plastic on the old ones.
These are solid metal and should last. So the differences in these before-and-after shots are the faucet, the counter top, and the new blinds and curtain...
Looking real good Walt :)clap
Holy Cow what a difference. :)ThmbUp Well done.
Wow....... Just, Wow..... The counter tops... Nice!
Those stays are pretty cool too. Those are what is holding the bathroom and kitchen blinds in place on my rig. No pins though as the blinds and stays are original to each other. The blinds have bumps that sorta "click" into place.
I have a Moen that will be going onto my sink to replace the older Moen on it now.
Getting to the driveline and chassis now, as we round third and head for home on the initial refurbish work...
The Center Bearing & Support (or carrier bearing, as it's also known) that supports the joint of the two sections of drive shaft from the transmission to the rear end needed to be replaced. It fits onto (and 'supports') the 1.378 inch splined shaft of the front drive shaft where it couples to the rear half of the drive shaft. The existing bearing seems fine, but the rubber insulator around it is shrunken and cracked with age. It will allow too much wobble as-is. Looked on this site for info on a proper available replacement, but did not find anything listed for a M-500, so here's what I found:
The parts book shows that for my 1977 M500 chassis, the part number for the entire Center Support Bearing assembly is 3621457.
There's an NOS one on eBay for $100.
My local Dodge dealer shows the part # has been superseded a couple of times, and is currently 5014097AA.
The new Mopar #'d part is square, and was apparently used in later years in other applications, although is not a very high-demand part these days. They happened to have had one on the shelf for a while, the quote was $156.
NAPA also has the entire assembly, new, for about $58 and lists it as part number HB88107B (see pictures below)
I contacted a local big-truck company, Inland Truck Parts (ITP), and they had one too as part # CN210088-1X, for about $41 (see pics)
Upon inspection, both the NAPA and ITP units are made in China and appear to be the exact same part, identical in every way except price.
Using the NAPA # HB88107B & the Neapco # CN210088-1X, there are several manufacturers and parts available online.
I'll try to post some pictures when I get the job underway...
Have also been shopping for all 6 tires... wow... :(
Reading some of the other posts I have accepted that the 8R - 19.5 tires I will get are not going to be made in the USA.
the M500 is a 14,000 GVW MH, and although I haven't had it weighed yet, I will be getting 12-ply, Load Rating F tires.
After talking to 8 different shops, have heard that Japanese tires are good, but the Chinese have the most advance tooling and equipment, and are making excellent tires. Ugh.
Locally, here's what I can get for 8R-19.5, price is per tire, mounted & balanced:
Advance GL283A $230 ea. same as Samson brand (China)
Triangle $240 ea. (China)
Hankook AH11 $263 ea. (Korea)
Sumitomo $265 ea. (Japan)
Bridgestone $319 ea. (?)
Goodyear $350 ea. (?)
Toyo $412 ea. (?)
So, looks like Advance/Samson tires are in my near future.
Most shops said they can do either lead weight balancing, or 'bag' or beads or 'equal'. It was interesting to hear each tell their preference - and why. Most stated that bigger tires benefit more from the bead-type, but lead seems to work quite well for this size. We'll see... I am leaning toward something other that lead weights.
6 tires less than 1000 bucks delivered
http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-tires-8r19-5-GL283A-All-Position-12-PR-truck-RV-tire-8x19-5-8-19-5-8195-/131226396578?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Tires&hash=item1e8db3e7a2&vxp=mtr
Walt I just read your entire post on your Beach craft amazing work, and your attention to detail and quality of your redo is great. Your last post was about tires. I also read up Clyesdalekevin post about his Samsons he has put thousands of miles on then and you cant argue with that kind of results. I followed his recommendations and I installed 6 Samsons on my 1996 28ft Allegro and I also had them lead balanced they ride great I only have about a thousand mile on them but I went to my local tire shop inquired about the Samsons they told me the school system is putting them on there busses . Just thought I would pass on. I got 6 installed and balanced for $1320 Have a great day and keep them shining