Huge thanks for making repair manuals available in the shop! We have been searching for manuals for 7 years. I can't tell you how much this means to us. We're having issues with our motorhome (long story) and these are exactly what we needed.
Hi RetroGrandma2
You don't see to many Rockwood motorhomes. I have a 88 Driftwood..33 foot with the 460 Carb engine..John Deere chassis made in 1987.
The reason for mine being parked is the engine is worn out and won't pass California smog..Not sure what I am going to do with it..When it was new, it was a high end coach..Now it has been sitting for a long time..
Mike
Hey Mike! Thanks for the welcome! No, these Rockwood class A's are a rare breed to be still on the road. I've yet to see another one.
Yeah, the smog stuff. Tempting to just bypass all that egi mess! Causes no end of problems. But then there's the states who really get their noses out of joint about vintage gasoline engines. :rolleyes:
Are you living in Cali?
Yes I live in California. Central Valley, near Fresno
There is no way that you can modify or remove any smog equipment on the engine..I have a 4180 Holley carb that was stock on this engine and to replace it with another is an immediate fail on the "Visual" part of the test..
No 6 cylinder is weak. It has very low compression and when it is idling during the exhaust emission test, that cylinder is not burning the fuel..causing high HC..Failed!!
So there it sits and the only solution is a rebuild..Not sure what to do next.
Here in California, you cannot add, subtract or modify in any way any of the smog equipment..
Mike
So, I just want to say that we can commiserate, on a very personal level with you. In our past: we are both Cali natives, central valley, and Vacaville is "home" - but we're currently midwest transplants, 26 years now. Love our family, but glad we got out when we could.
We have had to pass smog on old vehicles in CA -- everything from a 1972 VW bus, to a 1984 Ford 9 passenger station wagon, and more. Rebuilt lots of those engines ourselves. Passing smog nowadays.... I'm sad for you, dude. Sounds like you've poured a lot of love into your Driftwood and it's heartbreaking to see her sit.
When I bought the Driftwood it was back in 2004..I hit Ebay looking for service manuals and was able to score these 2..
I was thinking of scanning them to load up here..maybe Oz can make a little money on them to support the website..
I have one of those all in one desktop printer-scanner-copier type of machines and scanning to pdf is easy..
I will contact Oz and see what he has to say..
Mike
Those look like they might be helpful manuals!
Yesterday I stumbled onto another manual, Ford's Engine/Emissions- Diagnosis manual, volume H. Found it on archive.org, of all places!
Our motorhome has had a problem with backfiring intermittently; two repair shops replaced a number of ignition/ fuel/ exhaust parts, but because the Rockwood can't be hooked up to a computer, neither repair shop was able to take the time to track down the problem. So having all these manuals available should really organize us as we go through the checklists for our specific engine and chassis.
I am going to start scanning that service guide today. I have a free account at Dropbox that allows up to 2 GB of files to be uploaded to and then a link is created for someone like you to download the file..
Each page needs to be pulled from the book and then laid on the scanner..It goes pretty fast.
As for your engine running problems, A good shop can hook it up to a scope to see how the ignition system performs. Actually see how each cylinder is performing in relationship to the other cylinders.
Things like bad sparkplugs, wires , even if there is a vacuum leak that can be pick out because that cylinder will be lean effecting the sparkplug voltage that is required to fire that plug.
the scope will show all 8 sparkplug performance quality and that can lead you to the problem of what is causing the poor running..
That's great about the manual- thank you so much for investing the time in doing that! :)clap
As far as a shop using a scope: what kind of scope? You'd think that since it had been at a Ford dealership shop, and then at a semi truck repair shop, that they'd have also thought of doing that if they could? I'm wondering if the engine doesn't have the ability for them to hook it up?
We own both OBD1 and OBD2 diagnosis modules. We had discussed seeing if we could hook the OBD1 up to the motorhome ourselves like we do with our old cars...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUShO72Grq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmGubcuzbtU
https://www.ebay.com/itm/324848372920?hash=item4ba278ccb8:g:gEIAAOSwoANhdhit&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwCWnMprjlgYTYy5RajPoO09E9xz%2Fkfgze89613UK%2B%2FHAR55BLWMLhalQcockJ52DgF%2Bto83TTuwA8yV0UhDELjaswGpqrM51S7SLSjd0yuFrhfTdHpwa8WopiM%2BEweSV7oOBkF4YSqjykYYJYfdNrWD1K58OO94p5ICgQFgN7%2FVSvjfGadnrXzORRo8HQiDGtmgCmL9MfSkZkaGkT%2BNz%2FV%2FEkjpgoRZ%2B6vF%2BnmsDRc8h0jsj9V0kwncDMnrps4Xskw%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6rmz_q7Yg
Most shops use the computer interface that has a diagnostic computer that they hold in their hands that talks to the computer that runs the engine,
My motorhome has a carburetor..does yours?? Is it fuel injected??
If it is fuel injected then you can use the OBD1 (on board diagnostics) that plugs into the small engine computer..It will give you trouble codes to look at..
But if it is a carb engine,..no computer..and that is where this scope comes in..I have a Hantek 1008C that works with a desk top computer..It will analyze the ignition that ells you all sorts of troubles..
The 3rd link from Ebay is the scope that I bought and still learning how to use it..Steep learning curve..
But it will tell you so much more than just the OBD1 scan will do for you..
when you look at the ebay link for the Hantek scope you will see in the picture of it a coiled up electrical lead..That is what is used to clip on to your coil output wire that goes to your distributor and then the scope is able to show on your computer screen what the individual sparkplugs are doing..
It is like an EKG that a doctor hooks up to you to see how your heart is doing..It is pretty much the same thing with sparkplugs..
Like I said, there is a big learning curve but the basics can be used to help figure out things.
Being old school,the very first thing I would do if you asked me to look at the engine is..
Hook up a vacuum gauge to it..A vacuum gauge to the engine will tell you if you have any problems with a bad valve--intake or exhaust--with the engine running, if the gauge has a pulsing needle that is the same as the engine idling,chances are you have a bad valve..It should be a smooth needle reading..steady..at about 14-16 inches of vacuum..
Second thing I would do is a compression test..take all the sparkplugs out and see if you have a bad-low- compression like I have with #6 of my engine..You screw in a compression tester gauge into each cylinder sparkplug hole and see how well it reads..you test each cylinder one at a time..so you only need one tester..
Each cylinder should have about 110-130 PSI..my # 6 only had 60 on it..and why I can't pass the smog..
So you screw the tester into a cylinder..spin the engine with the starter for 15 second or so and see what the gauge reads..if one is low..then you are in deep with a problem..
You take all the spark plugs out to help the starter spin the engine easier..but you test each cylinder one at a time..so 8 individual tests spinning the engine
Here is a great screen shot about how a vacuum gauge to analyze your engine..bad valves..bad rings..carb out of adjustment..bunch of stuff
You need to establish the fact your rv has tbi or carberation. That is critical.
Does this backfire occur at idle..does it occur while cruising or does it occur going uphill.
Does the backfire exit the exhaust or carb/tbi.
Back firing only occurs when a valve is open when it not supposed to be...or the ignition system/spark is firing at the wrong time.
You should have fuel injection, yes you can hook up your automotive scanners. That is your first priority...find the port.
Now I must ask have you plugged in your scanner and nothing happens?
Take a picture of your engine preferably from the inside the coach with the cover off of it looking down on the engine..It will tell a big story. A vacuum gauge and a compression test will tell much of the condition of the motor
I have a 1994 Ford E350 with the 460EFI and it has 8 fuel injectors to it. One for each cylinder..That is called MFI..Multiport fuel Injection
Please take that picture..
Ahh Ford did not mess with tbi if I remember right, mpi right out of the box. Getting older is full of surprises.
Mike,
I already have a digital copy of the PC2109 manual so you do not need to copy it. I will send it to Mark for the store.
Is there a P/N on that other manual? Might be the one in the store already.
TM-1362 That is located on most of the pages. with different dates..Nov 87...June 86..
And some of the pages have PC 2109 and those pages involve chassis number identification
https://www.deeretractors.org/store/products/john-deere-vehicle-chassis-service-manual-tm1362-download/
John Deere has a digital copy for 40 dollars!!
That Hantek 1008C scope is handy with or without Fuel Injection. Only 1 spark plug cable comes with the kit so I also purchased the extra cables that allow me to look at all 8 cylinders (1 per channel) at the same time. I have used it on non OBD, OBD1, and OBD2 systems for different things like plugs, and sensors (Throttle, crank, cam, ABS, etc.) This is a backyard mechanic sort of scope as shops typically have fancy expensive ones.
We have the same manual in the site store for $14.95
John Deere Manual (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=store;cat=67)
I will have Mark add the 2109 one
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 10, 2023, 10:41 PMWe have the same manual in the site store for $14.95
Alright, well you saved me some work..That Hantek with the one cable can be clamped to the coil wire..and it will show a parade of the 8 cylinders firing away..that would use 1 channel..Then a second channel to monitor the primary of the coil..There is a bunch of videos on the tube about analyzing the display..What you can "scope" is all sorts of things..
I saw one demonstration of a amp clamp on the starter heavy gauge wire..It in essence was showing a comparable compression test because a low cylinder would not draw as much amperage and all the others were comparable..
Another was amp testing the electric fuel pump..showed that one of the armatures was burning out and the pump was ready to go out completely..
All showing everything on your desktop computer!!
I had a chevy van with OBD 1 waste fire that had 3 coil pacs. Needed the separate plug wires to help find a bad coil pac.
Quote from: RockwoodMike on August 10, 2023, 09:39 AMMy motorhome has a carburetor..does yours?? Is it fuel injected??
Yes, it has a carburetor, no it isn't fuel injected.
QuoteBut if it is a carb engine,..no computer..and that is where this scope comes in..I have a Hantek 1008C that works with a desk top computer..It will analyze the ignition that ells you all sorts of troubles..
OK great, thanks for the ebay link; I don't know if my husband has one of those but I doubt it, or he'd likely have already used it. I will show him the link and we'll get one.
Quote from: RockwoodMike on August 10, 2023, 10:07 AMBeing old school,the very first thing I would do if you asked me to look at the engine is..
Yes, vacuum and compression tests were already on our list of things to check. Thank you for the visual vacuum gauge sheet, I'll print that out and put it in my binder.
Quote from: Eyez Open on August 10, 2023, 12:57 PMYou need to establish the fact your rv has tbi or carberation. That is critical.
It has a Holley carburetor.
QuoteDoes this backfire occur at idle..does it occur while cruising or does it occur going uphill.
Intermittently under all 3 conditions. The warmer the engine gets, the more frequent the backfiring becomes.
QuoteDoes the backfire exit the exhaust or carb/tbi.
The backfiring has exited from both exhaust and carb but seems primarily carb.
QuoteYou should have fuel injection, yes you can hook up your automotive scanners. That is your first priority...find the port.
The engine is a 1987 Ford 460, prior to the switch to fuel injection in 1988. It is a hybrid: Holley carburetor with DuraSpark-II distributor.
Quote from: RockwoodMike on August 10, 2023, 03:52 PMTake a picture of your engine preferably from the inside the coach with the cover off of it looking down on the engine.
Here's a photo that may help: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BmgmYpXnUOJ9ahyqeAs7pn_Y8BPUFQU4/view?usp=drivesdk
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 10, 2023, 10:38 PMThat Hantek 1008C scope is handy with or without Fuel Injection. Only 1 spark plug cable comes with the kit so I also purchased the extra cables that allow me to look at all 8 cylinders (1 per channel) at the same time.
Ah, thanks for that tidbit on extra cables.
**********
Figured I'd throw into the general conversation the list of repairs that have been done:
2017: Oil change & filter; replaced: all plugs & wires, cap & rotor, cleaned carburetor.
2018: trans filter kit; replaced: all 3 alternator belts, carburetor, acellerator pump, fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump switch, fuel filter, ignition coil. Adjustments to linkage, float level, timing.
2019: replaced ech temperature sensor
Quote from: RetroGrandma2 on August 12, 2023, 02:40 PMYes, vacuum and compression tests were already on our list of things to check.
It will be interesting to see the results of those 2 tests. With the backfire, I would guess a weak cylinder (Compression test) and a twitchy needle on the vacuum gauge
Ref info:
Service manual is available in our site store: http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=store;cat=43
The rights and parts that where still available were initially bought by IH then sold to Freightliner who now supports this JD chassis. Mixture of Ford and custom parts
Mill Supply (https://www.millsupply.com/search.php?k=john+deere&submit=go) (<-Link to JD Parts) carries some JD parts. You would have to contact them with specific questions. They are a good source for GM P30, JD/Oskosh, and Ford chassis parts.
Also, this chassis was originally built by Oshkosh and purchased by John Deere. Therefore, sometimes things are listed under Oshkosh.
I also sent you a PM with some additional Info.
I also have a few other tricks up my sleeve if you need something
Well now lots of input here and two of those individuals have deep skill sets. And then there is a conversion...Lol..The only thing I can bring up is the below condition..it seems to firing at every timing cycle it can..carb and exhaust..your vales are sticking or your Holley is in a lean burn at idle.
The backfiring has exited from both exhaust and carb but seems primarily carb.
1. Close your idle jets to make sure the engine DIES at idle. If it does not the carb needs some calibration. Note here count the turn when you close the jets for a reference to get back to normal.
If the carb does kill the engine turn the jets back to original position..use 1/4 of a turn out until you get no more carb backfire. Your enriching the idle mixture, that should stop backfire thru the carb.
I point this simply because a very large majority of carbs are not setup to run on the idle circuit. The above process will tell you that with no questions. Your engine will not pass seq if it's not running on the idle circuit alone.
But before that even, seafoam down the carb to clean up the combustion chamber and valves. It sounds like your valves are sticking badly..or broken springs at that..
* Idle jets translates to idle mixture screws. Not to be confused with idle set screws.
1. Do you know the model of the Holley and cfm rating.
I showed my hubby this conversation and he agreed on the value of getting one. We found one of the Hantek scopes on Amazon for $100 and ordered it. https://a.co/d/eGLqCkc
Tomorrow we need to do brake maintenance, so that gives us something to work on while we wait for the scope. I also found an electrical & vacuum troubleshooting manual.
Quote from: Eyez Open on August 12, 2023, 05:49 PMIt sounds like your valves are sticking badly..or broken springs at that..
* Idle jets translates to idle mixture screws. Not to be confused with idle set screws.
1. Do you know the model of the Holley and cfm rating.
I'm with you on the guess about the valves sticking, given the age of the engine vs the age of the much newer carb. I don't know the model of the carb, but if there's any mfr info on it somewhere, I can find out.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/364012922280?hash=item54c0dc65a8:g:-loAAOSwXLxe999s&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Bb%2Bq0kjYZAXBlayEe51MXf2roBxhK%2BczxY3EDj5Y1b4Jy6WvuTXgLPuBaFkY2uwVoMt2hFVlPhT2JoMoIutpUYCX9Qyy2NybdLmSmkHf9IqAfhB2Gj9y0lQvw%2Fqb83%2B%2FIDRaRdpbpT0v13xyjUhkcglSgJ%2FFCHEl5QzAy0teGrLiooOWmDIXxHEvY5xpad6nKZZ1ku4GWFSlHFCNkUYwJgC%2Fxxu6NInm%2BTJRrbxgbC%2Bysz%2Fr9LLODe0DgKLuuI9IRppy79vrWXcNb6FXYJokVrEpL8jUbzalQDDq%2FfBokMA%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR-jF_-2-Yg
You are missing something..You bought the 1008B instead of the 1008C..And the difference is the test lead that hooks on to a sparkplug wire or the coil wire..
The picture shows the unit I bought.It has that sparkplug test lead..
But no biggie..You can buy the test lead individually..
You paid 100..I paid 120..difference is the test lead for the sparkplugs..
Here is my Hantek setup..
HP computer running Windows 7 Pro large screen display..And I printed out the instruction manual..
You can download the Hantek software and just play with it in demo mode..
But you need that sparkplug test lead..You will use that alot!!
Quote from: RetroGrandma2 on August 14, 2023, 09:50 PMI don't know the model of the carb
Here in California, my engine has the Holley 4180 carb. Basically the difference is the 2 float bowls have a fitting that has a hose going over to the charcoal canister to trap the gas fumes..I have to run this carb to pass smog..
The smog test in California is a money racket..And with the age of this thing, parts are getting hard to find..You just have to dig hard to find them..
That pic of your hubby, I can tell he is going to enjoy finding out what that scope can do..Start watching YT to see all the videos of this Hantek in action..
Quote from: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 09:51 PMYou are missing something..You bought the 1008B instead of the 1008C..And the difference is the test lead that hooks on to a sparkplug wire or the coil wire..
Thanks for pointing that out. They do have the 1008c for $109 from the same seller on that same page. I'm not sure which of them my hubby ordered, but since he read this thread before ordering, probably got the correct one.
We were talking earlier today about why the two mechanics who worked on the rv couldn't fix the backfire issue, and we guessed that the guys who were old enough to have worked on carbureted engines had long since retired, leaving the younger guys in charge. Unless one of them had a penchant for classic muscle cars, they were probably just guessing about what to do when we brought her in for repairs. Unlikely to have any old repair manuals hanging around their shops, too. So they just started replacing stuff.
If we'd have thought of that, we'd have saved ourselves 2 grand and started working on it ourselves.
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 12, 2023, 05:04 PMAlso, this chassis was originally built by Oshkosh and purchased by John Deere. Therefore, sometimes things are listed under Oshkosh.
Are you sure about the Oshkosh? Vin starts with 17N which is the JD Waterloo Works plant.
Quote from: RetroGrandma2 on August 14, 2023, 10:24 PMIf we'd have thought of that, we'd have saved ourselves 2 grand and started working on it ourselves.
I know what you are saying..Today's techs can't hunt down a problem..The computer has to tell them what it is..
I grew up in the 70s and the carburetor was the most difficult thing to worry about back then..
So the first test was always the vacuum gauge..with the picture I posted you can see plenty of problems being told to you on how the gauge performs..
And the worst symptom is a twitchy needle that moves in sync to the speed of the engine at idle..
And if you have that problem, then the compression test on each cylinder was done..
Quote from: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 11:07 PMI know what you are saying..Today's techs can't hunt down a problem..The computer has to tell them what it is..
I grew up in the 70s and the carburetor was the most difficult thing to worry about back then
Yes and yes. And now, if we have the option, we will always go for the older non-computerized engine, repair it ourselves as needed and use them until they're outlawed.
People can't work on their own modern vehicles today, when everything is managed by computerized modules and sensors, and they have neither the skill nor equipment to fix it. It's like cellphones... planned obsolescence until you acquiesce.
But then there's always gonna be guys like you, bucking the system keeping an old Windows 7 os running...😂
Quote from: RetroGrandma2 on August 14, 2023, 09:50 PMQuote from: Eyez Open on August 12, 2023, 05:49 PMIt sounds like your valves are sticking badly..or broken springs at that..
* Idle jets translates to idle mixture screws. Not to be confused with idle set screws.
1. Do you know the model of the Holley and cfm rating.
I'm with you on the guess about the valves sticking, given the age of the engine vs the age of the much newer carb. I don't know the model of the carb, but if there's any mfr info on it somewhere, I can find out.
That would be beneficial to you,90% of all carbs are not setup out of the box to run correctly. 2k should be more than enough to get going again. Do not get frustrated that's the big part, I can assure the start of a tune up starts with the carb, if you can't get that right then there are problems down stream. Carb, ignition first valve train last stop. I'd try the below settings
12 degrees initial timing (no vacuum)
Idles at 7/800 rpm.
Oops aside from the seafoam down the carb to clean up the head combustion chamber. Ok once upon a time it was common practice to pour water down the carb body, yep steam cleaning at its finest. Only seasoned mechs did this, generally taught to them by the mfg. Carbonization has been a problem since the beginning of engines. I will tell you not to use water simply because if done incorrectly its very bad....as you stated when warm it popping gets worse, a 75% chance that's red hot carbon firing off a lean gas mixture. Seafoam lubricates and cleans..I'll post a video and a old link.
https://youtu.be/O1KM_J6zDYs
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c1-and-c2-corvettes/1824568-pouring-water-down-carb-to-clean-carbon-out.html
If you pour in too much water, you can bend rods. If you manage to fill a cylinder with water, more than 65 cc to 80 cc depending on the engine, you will be trying to compress an incompressible object, an the rod will bend, piston will break, or head gasket will blow.
So while the old guy who has done this hundreds of time can sit there with a water hose or a glass of water, the new guy with no experience is best advised to use something like a squirt gun or a spray bottle or whatever.
Bring the engine up in revs before you begin pouring in water, trickle the water in, and keep the revs up for 10 - 15 seconds after you have stopped the water, so that the engine can clear out what may be sitting in the intake or wherever.
.
https://www.holley.com/blog/post/here_is_the_correct_procedure_for_setting_an_optimized_idle_mixture_and_speed/
Quote from: RetroGrandma2 on August 15, 2023, 07:38 AMBut then there's always gonna be guys like you, bucking the system keeping an old Windows 7 os running...😂
My first introduction to the computer world was Windows 98se..Where USB was first being introduced.
And I fought it hard to transition to XP ..There is nothing wrong with my 98 I said..But it happened..
But for some reason I mellowed and allowed 7 into the scene..I am totally happy with it even if the updates are gone..A good strong virus program and firewall and I have never had a problem..
Shoot, I am running 32 bit software..My design software (Autocad 2000...yes 2000) runs great on 7pro..
My CNC Plasma cutter runs 7pro..why would I want to update..If I did, then all this software wouldn't run on a windows 10..
I have a windows 10 computer on standby..And I only turn it on 1 time a year..Tax season!! Turbo Tax software will not run on anything but 10..
This last March I turned it on and had to wait 2-3 hours while it downloaded all the updates it needed..
About 5 GB of downloads..Reboot..install more..reboot..
Updates are mistakes that MS missed in the development of the 10 software..That is why so many people don't like their software..Just full of holes that need patches..
My rant is over..
Quote from: Eyez Open on August 15, 2023, 09:30 AMDo you know the model of the Holley and cfm rating
I forgot to take the air intake off and snap a pic of the carb data plate. Next week.
I read my hubby the part about steam cleaning the carbonization. He thinks you're nuts but he'll check out the links anyway.
Thank you for those.
Mixed results today...
First, we were able to do some inflating on low tire but we need to bring the air tank back next week to finish filling it.
Brakes.... well, not good. They were soft so I'm checking the level with a popsicle stick in the master cylinder... and it's nearly empty! Likely a leak somewhere. We only had a quart of brake fluid, which did fill the reservoir, so need to bring more next week to check for the leak and bleed the mcyl and lines.
Starting... the chassis battery is too weak and couldn't turn over, even with the Allen's truck giving it a jump. So we brought it home to put a trickle charge on it.
We did verify that the fuel shutoff switch was reset in case that was causing starting issues.
We bought ours back in 2004 and it was used by a bee keeper for his crew to live in while they were out placing bees in orchards..They trashed it!!
But I saw the potential in and a plus was it had a Ford drive train..If it was a Chevy I would have passed on it..The Ford 460 is a solid motor to work with..
My Exhaust manifolds were all cracked..And the bolts that hold the manifolds on had several snapped off flush with the head..So the heads came off for the fix of the bolts and a valve job..
Installed Gayle Banks headers. Long tube headers that made all the difference in heat under the dog house cover..
taking those heads off was a big job..All done inside the coach..but it worked out well.
I put a new timing chain on while the heads were in the shop..Also a mild performance cam..I was in the middle of the thing called "While I am here, I might as well do this too"
Check your roof for cracks or anything..mine leaked and not only hit the ceiling but ran down the wall and de laminated it..I fixed the ceiling but never the wall.
When the ceiling was open, I saw what caused it..A wood piece that was used to screw the front cap was missed placed and the screws missed the wood to hold the cap tight to the roof..
It opened early and you could see the gobs of silicon trying to fix the leak..It was manufactured wrong at the factory.
I did a long list of things on this motorhome..Like the list you are making right now..It really saddens me to see it rotting away..
Yes I get that nuts part, its not water I recommend but seafoam, it lubricates and cleans. Using water can be quite violent in a engine, much the same as using a mallet to free a stuck valve.
Based on the JD parts book you either have a Ford E6JL-9510AB (48 state) or E6JL-9510BA (Calif) carburetor.
E6JL-9510AB info link (48 State) (https://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=E6JL-AB)
E6JL-9510BA info link (Calif) (https://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=E6JL-BA)
My unit was sold in California and it has the 4180 carb as shown. It is the same as the 4160in regards to the metering plates, jets etc. But the float bowls have that big tube coming off of them..Rubber hose over to the charcoal canister to capture the fumes evaporating off the gas in the bowls..It is a nightmare of hoses..And I can't touch it as it needs to be exactly as it was issued when it was new or you fail the smog test..
Quote from: Eyez Open on August 15, 2023, 05:25 PMYes I get that nuts part, its not water I recommend but seafoam, it lubricates and cleans. Using water can be quite violent in a engine, much the same as using a mallet to free a stuck valve.
:grin: Um, yeah about that mallet part....
No, I'm kidding. We haven't done that on this engine.
Yet...😁😁😁😁😁
Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 15, 2023, 09:32 PMBased on the JD parts book you either have a Ford E6JL-9510AB (48 state) or E6JL-9510BA (Calif) carburetor.
E6JL-9510AB info link (48 State) (https://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=E6JL-AB)
E6JL-9510BA info link (Calif) (https://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=E6JL-BA)
Right, if it was the original carb, I'd totally agree with you. But a repair shop replaced it in 2018, and they didn't give us a part number in the receipt. So until I actually look, I dunno what's on there. Next week I will, unless mcyl issue takes all our time.
Quote from: RockwoodMike on August 15, 2023, 10:10 PMMy unit was sold in California and it has the 4180 carb as shown. It is the same as the 4160in regards to the metering plates, jets etc. But the float bowls have that big tube coming off of them..Rubber hose over to the charcoal canister to capture the fumes evaporating off the gas in the bowls..It is a nightmare of hoses..And I can't touch it as it needs to be exactly as it was issued when it was new or you fail the smog test..
We were talking about your Rockwood situation yesterday, because we had the exact same problem getting our station wagon to pass smog, back in the early 90s. You couldn't (or don't want to) sell it to someone out of state who wouldn't have those smog restrictions?
Quote from: RetroGrandma2 on August 16, 2023, 08:46 AMsell it to someone out of state who wouldn't have those smog restrictions
Who would want to come to California to buy a dead motorhome?. It has been parked where it is since 2015.
It would take a bunch of work just to get it running again..Fuel tank drain..new batteries..No idea about the brakes after sitting so long..Why would anybody want something like this?
Well, for the right price anything can happen 🙂🙃🙂🙃
And what the hell are we doing with our Winnebagos then?
The question is of someone really want to put the time and love in it. Doing nothing this thing keeps standing not getting any better.
Quote from: Mlw on August 16, 2023, 10:43 PMWell, for the right price anything can happen 🙂🙃🙂🙃
And what the hell are we doing with our Winnebagos then?
The question is of someone really want to put the time and love in it. Doing nothing this thing keeps standing not getting any better.
The right price is for me to pay some towing/junkyard to haul it away..
When it comes to my D22 Indian, that rockwood has plenty of things I can use..The roof top AC..6.5 Onan generator that could be standby power for my house..Here in California, we are on the edge of a total electrical grid breakdown..
The fridge is a newer unit tri powered with 12 volts AC and propane..That would fit nice in the Winnie..
Water heater..Only used for one season before the engine quit..Power inverter..List goes on..
All the things that I need for the Winnie, quite a few would come from the Rockwood..
Even the steel frame could be cut up and be sold for the scrap value..
It is worth more in tearing it down then what I could get for a "for sale" offer..
Gas is over 5 a gallon..This Rockwood on it's best day never made it to 7 miles a gallon. Almost a dollar a mile..
Nobody wants this thing..It will be scrape soon.
Fair enough points, both in the value of the scrap, and the value of just a come-n-get-it sale.
Price of gas, indeed! I'd love to drive the Rockwood to Nebraska to visit family, but I can do the trip on half the cost just driving my car and staying in hotels.
But the travel isn't why I want the motorhome anyway. It's all about the bug infested, stale smoke smell; the drunk campsite neighbors, and the barking dogs at 3am campground life that I really like! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Oh rebuilding a rv is quite a experience. Rebuilding the power train is/Was real work. Now I'm onto finishing the interior, I've never have attempted something like this just for myself..my own personal tastes. It can be really confusing,and then there is exterior paint job...How does one paint a 30' refrigerator and bring some fun to it...
So you are putting it to use. That is changing things and i'm totally agreeing with you with everything you say.
But there are also enough people who just leave it standing or asking rediculous prices so it keeps standind and that's something i will never understand.
A few months there was the same Minnie Winnie for sale in Germany for $200,= I don't think I have to explain the state it was in but it was still standing and I would have bought it in a second if i had the room to store it. because it would have been cheaper (but more work) to salvage parts of it.
oh well... it is what it is.
Here's an update on the Rockwood repairs:
The master cylinder was nearly empty! But when we refilled it, we've been checking the fluid to see if the mcyl itself is leaking. It seems to be holding. We haven't bled the brakes yet, that's further down the list, once she's road worthy.
In the mean time, we've been chasing starting issues. We originally thought it was a dead chassis battery. Took it home and trickle charged it. But that doesn't solve the issue, so we removed the starter and tested it; dead! It's one of the things the shop mechanics hadn't replaced, so it was the original '87 starter. Frankly, I was surprised I could get the bolts to turn as easily as they did, given the rust encrusting it.
Napa Auto Parts carried a remastered one, exactly the same type with internal solenoid, and we got the new one back in with a minimum of swear words. My arms are sore this morning, from holding that starter up and trying to get the wire bolted on! But all said and done, she started up without needing to remove the air filter and spray starting fluid in the carb; she also automatically released her clutch like she's supposed to.
One thing I need help with, and maybe Rockwood Mike, you know the answer: where is the starter relay located? We had trouble tracing the wiring back to it, even with a diagram.
Charlene
I can help you..My coach has a battery disconnect system for the batteries..As you enter the coach at the main entrance, there is this panel that has these 2 switches..1 for the coach batteries and the other for the chassis battery..the motorhome has 2 batteries for the coach and 1 for the chassis..
Pic 1
When you flip the switches, you will hear a clink clunk..this activates the relays located under the front inspection door at the front of the coach..where you see the radiator and everything in front of the engine ..without these switches-relays activated, the batteries are totally disconnected and no power can be drawn from them..
You arrive at the campground and you would disconnect the chassis relay, to keep it from being drawn down in any way..
In the center circled in blue is a relay controlled from the dash that would momentarily connect the chassis and coach batteries together..in case one or the other set of batteries were dead, it would give you a jump from the other set.. Pic 2
Now for the location of the starter relay..As you stand in front of the coach, looking at the front of the radiator, look over to the left and down low of the front engine area..
You have to get your head in there to see it, but the Duraspark ignition module and the alternator regulator is on a panel mounted next to the starter relay..
Starter relay circled in red...Duraspark ignition in yellow and the Alternator regulator in blue..
So all of this is located left and low as you stand in front of the coach looking into the front are of the engine..
Just to get a perspective of the location you can just see the front right tire and the bottom of the picture..so all of this is located just in front of the right front tire
Starter relay location - Look at PDF page 51 of the John Deere parts book
Key number 4
Much of the info Mike describes only applies if you have a Battery Disconnect system installed. It is used to isolate the chassis and coach batteries when the rig is in storage to prevent them being discharged.
Typical Battery Disconnect System wiring diagram (http://dave78chieftain.com/ConverterInfo.html#Modern)
Rockwood Mike: thank you! I will look there when we go back next week. It does look like our systems are the same. Though I noticed our wood is darker, we have the oak interior. Thank you for the detailed directions and circling everything. Edit: can I access the starter relay from leaning over the tire, or getting underneath the front of the engine, or can I reach through the grill below the engine access door?
Dave, we do have the battery disconnect system. Our panel looks just like Mike's photo, and I did see the battery disconnect switches on the right front corner of the engine access, near the driver's side wall of the engine. But I will also take a look at the parts book, too. Thank you for that detailed directions on where to research to get a part number if we need to replace the relay.
Your best bet is to remove the grill and if need be the fiberglass panel (missing in my picture but outlined in red).
There are 4 screws(orange dots for location) and the grill comes off..Then you can reach in where the blue shows in the picture to get to the starter relay is mounted..
Check the connections to the relay..Take the cables off one by one and clean the connections good..Maybe you just have a bad connection!?!
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 14, 2023, 12:22 PMYour best bet is to remove the grill and if need be the fiberglass panel (missing in my picture but outlined in red)...Maybe you just have a bad connection!?!
Perfect, thank you. I had a feeling you'd say we needed to remove the grill, once you told me where the relays are located. I'm hoping it's just a corroded connection, too; but given it's age, it wouldn't surprise me if it's going out.
My memory is telling me that one of the battery disconnects was acting up where you flip the switch and it makes the click-clunk sound..but it wasn't actually making the connection..
Flipping the switch on and off a few times and it fixed itself..Just be sure when you turn on the chassis connect, that you are actually getting power to the chassis..Headlights should be bright..windshield wipers work..turn signals..etc..
Just some connection in all the connections leading to the starter relay may be bad..
Yeah, all the age related things, right?
A few weeks ago, I'd had a brilliant inspiration to prevent us from being continuously slow roasted as we worked on the engine, because of the greenhouse effect from the Rockwood's extreme windshield angle. I cut panels of Reflectix and taped them together, to fit each windshield section; then the aha moment on how to hold the Reflectix in place? Spring tension cafe curtain rods! They work perfectly!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17fWAl30hbQsnkSysqqxBSs1Ma-4bVlll/view?usp=drivesdk (https://drive.google.com/file/d/17fWAl30hbQsnkSysqqxBSs1Ma-4bVlll/view?usp=drivesdk)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17cxOv6oZqwkDlYXu2ZUSJIgPofwC9dy8/view?usp=drivesdk (https://drive.google.com/file/d/17cxOv6oZqwkDlYXu2ZUSJIgPofwC9dy8/view?usp=drivesdk)