ok... so today on drive home... engine started acting up, surging etc. Felt like wind was buffeting us full force as I lost and gained poweer... then KABLAM.... thought we had blown a tire but had in fact giant backfire and blown a hole through the seam in the passenger side muffler...
More engine issues and the cause was that the wires to the ignitian module on the distributor cap, power harness had become loose causing cylinder misfire etc... so thats all clipped back into place and engine doesn't seem worse for wear.
To add to this we know we have either manifold leak, or gasket needed also on passenger side. Odor of exhaust is fairly strong while stopped if front windows are open.
So.. the question becomes... Should we invest in an entire Banks system for our 454 (1987) 7.4BBL or just replace the muffler and gaskets and or manifold? The Banks system at about $1200 may or may not increase mileage (currently 7.4 avg) but even 1 more mpg... would be nice...
I've found stock replacement manifolds for not too much, and will have to see if our engine has or doesn't have gaskets and or if the manifolds just need replacement. I haven't shopped for muffler yet.
Have mechanic and elbow grease.... and may patch the muffler for now... so we can get Gone until we have down time...
Advice?
Tina
Tina,
From what I have read most people who have installed the Banks system were happy with the increased power (torque) but only got about 1 mpg improvement. This is sort of one of those personal choices. Depends on how much $ you want to invest.
Dave
Dave,
yea.. on the P30 Yahoo forum all have suggested no Banks but to upgrade mufflers to Magna flows. for the manifolds some have suggested Thorley headers? Lots say original manifolds are bad to begin with, some say remachining the old ones and reinstalling using a racing class gasket...
1 mpg would extend a tank by almost 100 miles for us.. but maybe better manifolds and the 100% flo mufflers might do the same thing?
tina
Tina,
Let me start off by saying I am an avid DIY person. Therefore, I would never put out $1900 for a full up banks system then adding the price of an extension kit on top of that. On my 440-3 I am using the stock exhaust manifolds but I converted to 2 1/4" dual pipes all the way back (rear bumper) with a crossover before the Cherry bomb Turbo mufflers. For now at least, I personally do not see what is gained by the over priced magnaflows. My Turbo's are just fine with the only issue is that I have to go back and add heat shielding (vaporlock issues). I also installed an aftermarket widband A/F meter and monitor both intake and ported distributor vacuum (high distributor vacuum = higher gas milage). I wanted to know what was going on. I will say I would not recommend Glowshift 7 color gauges at this point. I am not able to see them easily in the daylight.
For your 454, you need to know if you have 1, 2 or no AIR pump(s).
Banks system is either 1 (96340) AIR or 2 (96341AIR) pumps. You do not have EFI.
http://www.bankspower.com/products/show/128/67 (http://www.bankspower.com/products/show/128/67)
There are smaller Banks kits which do not include everything but still start at $900.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4726&rt=nc&_nkw=454+motorhome+headers&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1 (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4726&rt=nc&_nkw=454+motorhome+headers&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1)
If you want to stick with standard exhaust manifolds, then there are plenty out there:
http://www.stevensparts.com/CHEV%20EXHAUST%20MANIFOLDS.htm#396-427-454 (http://www.stevensparts.com/CHEV%20EXHAUST%20MANIFOLDS.htm#396-427-454)
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=454+exhaust+manifold&_sacat=&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=454+headers&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313 (http://motors.shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=454+exhaust+manifold&_sacat=&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_odkw=454+headers&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p4506.m270.l1313)
For my passenger side I purchased an off brand manifold made in China. Only problem I have with it is the #$%&@ AIR blanking plate. It does not want to stay sealed. Stupid design in that it only has one bolt. grrrrr Most new stock replacement manifolds will be from either China or Korea.
As far as headers. They come in a multitude of flavors. Hedman, Doug Thorly, and Banks.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4726&rt=nc&_nkw=454+motorhome+headers&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1 (http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A4%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4726&rt=nc&_nkw=454+motorhome+headers&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_sticky=1&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=15&_sc=1)
You may hear of the Doug Thorly Tri-Y which are shorty headers like used on a classic hot rod. Being short, they would reduce heat signiture. Headers bring heat issues as well as service life. You want thick wall and thick flange headers to prevent early burnout as well as reduce flange warpage. They are bit more pricey. Coated headers lower heat radiation. If available you want ball socket collectors (no collector flange gasket and allows soms alignment flexing).
You want to stay with 2 1/4" pipes and use a crossover pipe (either "X" or "H"). They provide a scavenging effect that helps keep the system balanced.
I built my own system using 10 foot 2 1/4" bulk pipe, plus 45 and 90 deg bends. I now have a MIG welder so I can weld my own system. Stock Dodge was single exhaust so I converted to dual. I did use a 2 1/4" flex sections near the engine to reduce vibration and flexing back to the stock manifolds. I found in the past that the weight of the exhaust system results in the failure of the manifold flange gaskets. Even Dodge added a brace near the passenger side header due to this. You will also see this commented about in header installation instructions. I still have to add bracing up near the manifolds to prevent that flexing. Make sure exhaust pipe routing is clear of tanks, wiring and hoses. A tail pipe does get hot enough to melt through a black tank or even a sewer valve assembly (I know from experience).
The additional heat genertaed in the piping is resulting in vaporlock issues for me. I will solve that in the next couple of weeks (shielding and proper electric pump placement). Your 86/87 GM chassis already has an in-tank electric fuel pump and routes the fuel line outboard the frame rail so that should not be a problem for you. My understanding is that there are heat shields in the engine area though. Make sure you retain these.
You can modify your existing air intake using home AC vents such that it provides 2 ram fresh air ports ( 3" or 4" hoses; Poor man's banks system). Route hoses to front of grill for fresh air intake. The Banks system increases the height of the air cleaner and installs a larger low resistance air filter. Not sure if you have clearance under the dog house for that or not.
Which way to go is a matter of just how much effort you want to put into it vs cost. For me cost is the driver, others is having a turn key system.
Dave
Dave thanks!
Current stock system on our Tiffin has 2 1/4" heat shielded pipes nose to tail, dual exhaust nose to tail. Those pipes are all still perfect condition so "if it ain't broke don't fix it"... I checked on the thorly site and they don't even make headers for our engine... so if anything going to go with standard manifolds if we need to replace them...
I believe we have 1 AIR pump as the passenger side manifold has bellow insert, and one shielded end pumping heat air to snorkel. Snorkel already has ram air to front of rig to the passenger side of radiator. 5" pipe. There is literally no room to put in a second one.
I poked around the passenger side manifold yesterday while measuring mufflers and pipes but need to get under there with a strong flashlight to look for cracks (didn't see in daylight)... may just be warped and needs new gaskets etc... but that I"ll leave up to a more thorough inspection. I didn't have time to poke into drivers side.
Mufflers are welded in place as part of pipe so will need to have mechanic or shop for muffler replacement....may see if Pat wants to attempt it wedged under the rig... mufflers are mid-ship between front and back of rig so no shielding on them, just on pipes.
Engine has a edelbrock quadrajet, new in 2006 after we purchased Gone.
Tina
Tina,
The best tool for finding exhaust leaks is a 2-3 ft section of garden hose used as a stethoscope. Place one end to your ear and move it around looking for the point where the leak is at. You can get into tight places with it. Remember though it is rubber and will melt if you touch the manifold or pipe. Keep it 1/2" or so away from pipe/manifold. This devices saves a lot of burnt fingers when trying to feel the pulsing air leak. Also, you normally cannot "see" where a leak is. You have to feel for the leak or use a sethoscope. Additionally, the sethoscope gets you in the right spot so you can look more closely.
Single cylinder leak (head to manifold) has a steady put put put sound to it like a missing cyinder.
Down stream leak has a faster pulse to it.
Hopefully the blown muffler noise will not impeded your search so that you can locate this easily.
Headers
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/MkMdlYrSearchCmd?Ne=1+2+3+13+1147708+1147708&searchType=MkMdlYrSearch&langId=-1&storeId=10001&N=1547597%204294965578&catalogId=10002&Nty=0&itemPerPage=90 (http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/MkMdlYrSearchCmd?Ne=1+2+3+13+1147708+1147708&searchType=MkMdlYrSearch&langId=-1&storeId=10001&N=1547597%204294965578&catalogId=10002&Nty=0&itemPerPage=90)
Note: That link shows both Class A and Class C configurations. You will have to filter through them.
Your AIR pump is going to be a hassel. Most headers are mfg'd for competion use. Hedman only made the AIR version for small blocks. Your only choice may be to use Banks headers, stay with stock manifolds, or, if you can get through inspection with out all smog devices in MD, remove the AIR setup. I know you live close to DC area so removal may not be an option due to emissions testing. I live far enough away from DC such that I do not have annual emissions testing.
Good luck,
Dave
thanks! will use the hose technique this weekend when I have more time to hunt. I had tried previously to "listen" but there is little space to do so even for someone with my "tiny" size... and once she is cranked up the whole kit and kaboodle is just noisy... I can feel the leak(s)... just can't tell where they are coming from at this point.... and thats on the passenger side... the drivers side is way tighter to get in to...
Gone is "Excepted" to MD emission testing... can't fit into testing facilities and too old etc... so AIR system may go away.. The EGR valve is bad anyway... so already talking to my mechanic(s) about removing emissions stuffs.
Think I will stick to standard/stock manifolds if indeed leak is due to warping, or maybe Banks if can get just the manifolds (and can just slide them in with no mods to pipes).
if gaskets are bad I'm going to use silicone racing grade replacements.
I called MagnaFlow today for tech help. Current mufflers are 20" x 7" round, center in and out 2.25"... so there is room to put in larger ovals with more sound dampening, vs round flow through... next discussion with my mechanic.... then again I love the sound of our 454.... rumbling.... :angel:
Tina
Tina,
What worked for me when I replaced the drivers side exhaust manifold on my 1985 454 was this. (Engine not running) I took my old tank-type vacuum cleaner, installing the hose on the exhaust end of vacuum cleaner, then I stuck the vacuum cleaner hose into the exhaust pipe (I have duals and at that time I did not have a crossover pipe) and sealed it with duct tape, I then got my spray bottle with liquid dish washing soap and sprayed the manifold really good, turned on the vacuum cleaner and was able to see where the cracks were. I purchased a new stock manifold from a surplus outfit on the internet and with shipping I think it ran about $75.00, a new exhaust manifold gasket, new exhaust pipe donut and new stainless steel bolts and I was ready to go. I used Never Seize and a torque wrench. Also be sure to make the cuts on the new manifold between the mounting stud holes (ref Chevy Motorhome Chassis Guide?). I can find it if you do not understand what I am trying to say (about the cuts).
Good Luck
Tina,
Sounds like you are formulating a plan of action even though there are many options. If you go with stock manifold, then, from what I have read, the stress relief cuts to the stock manifold JBM recommended would also be a good idea.
Dave
Nothing in concrete, except mufflers, until me and my mechanic crawl into her engine compartment Saturday morning before it turns into an oven... For the Mufflers going with Magnaflows 7" round, 20" long, 2.25 straight throughs. If we have to remove the manifolds will go with stock replacements but will remove the AIR system. Decided against headers since from 3 forums more bother than worth increases in MPG. then again on one forum I've been offered Headman shorties for $100 pair - used 35 miles... Depends what we find Saturday morning.... I'm sort of praying its just a gasket where manifold meets pipe but I'll be bringing my garden hose.
Tina
And the results are in... Magnaflow mufflers ordered... With a high power light we crawled around the cold and warming engine and... both manifolds have large cracks right in the "Bellows" section between manifold and engine.... soooo... After much discussion with mechanic and online research.. we bit the bullet and are going to put on BANKS torque tubes (they don't call them headers... i??)... The only replacements for "manifolds" seemed to be cast iron which have known issues on this engine with warping, no Dual/Air stainless with bellows are avail with lots of internet searches....
We will remove the AIR system and emissions stuff as we go....
PT blaster will be applied daily to manifold bolts until we start working on her.. luckily mother nature turned the oven off here in MD...
we will take pix as we go and will put a how to manual together....
Tina
Magna flows arrived today.... passenger side manifold removed, AIR system on passenger side removed, AIR on driver side disconnected. New, smaller, belts in place... There is some much room in there now!
Tina
Get Gone Going Y! :laugh:
My wonderful friend called me.. I answered.. and all I could hear was bluda bluda bluda.... ahhhh... Gone now has a deep bass rumble... put her in drive and she crawls forward without pressing the gas at all... the Banks system looks like a sculpture! Was top notch to mount etc... mechanic was impressed with quality. don't know yet what mileage is as no reasonable gas within home trek... but power to spare on hills, lots under pedal on flat at 60... WOW!!! so yes if you have a 454 7.4L BBL... remove Dual AIR, Go Banks, Magna flow mufflers... and Zoom! :D :D :D
Tina
It official
We now have our one and only
HOTROD
TINA
A drag strip test??? Hm? :laugh:
ok cost totals....
BANKS for a 1987 7.4L BBL 454 just the torque tubes and all assembly parts including shipping.. was $1300 (guaranteed for life, stainless)
Magnaflow 2.25" dual offset 20.5" mufflers 2 - $130
Tune up parts:- wires, plugs, cap, starter shielding, battery cable redo (made longer), new belts, 2 8' sections of custom bent 2.25" exhaust pipe (no labor), all exhaust connections, new chassis battery, 2 exhaust heat valves... $435
Paying mechanic in lasagna, rockfish, and dog biscuits, a lifetime of friendship and I will be landscaping his house.. and yes actually paid him a bit. His total hours were probably 15+ helper friend 6+ would have been 5 less but one manifold bolt took 5 hrs to remove... professional mechanic with all tools...
DUAL AIR system was completely removed on passenger side, driver side pipes etc removed and air pump no longer in belt loop but not removed because of accessibility.
Going at speed up hills... AWESOME... having RV that sounds like a Harley... Yehaw!... Peddle not going to floor to maintain 55.. should = better mileage... haven't calculated on fuel load yet... 7.4MPG was average last year... 5.4 last tank... if we get 10 I will be in awe..... Will post it when we know as this next fill will include 250 miles of before repair....
Tina
It's been a long haul to get Gone where it is but, it looks like you're finally going to get to really enjoy the driving part of RV ownership!
Go TINA... you ROCK!
Welcome to the Vrooomm Vrooomm club The exaust noise when pulling out makes ya feel like your lifting the frt wheels off the ground. And you can also pull out without attracting any attention if you want to Frank
I was using degreaser on my Allegro with 454 with the engine cold but running. When rinsing I could see small bubbles coming from passenger side exhaust manifold where it is bolted to engine . My question is should I try to tighten with engine hot . Or is it not worth messing with and what size bolt is it . Some of my 9/16 are not tight enough one is .I don't what to do ?
Hi Vince As far as trying to tighten , Be prepared to get into a hornets nest (broken studs / Bolts etc ) Use PB Blaster on all Find 6 point socket that fits best (metric or SAE ) Rust can make a 9/16 nut feel loose and a metric socket may fit better. Before trying to tighten Try to loosen This will tell you wether fastener is stretched or just loose , Replaceing all nuts with brass & using a torque wrentch will prevent future rusting problems Good Luck Frank
And never seize on the threads. If you use a torque wrench with never seize go with the bottom end of the torque setting for that bolts. Bolts are original 3/8" and use a 9/16 socket. As Froggy said, always go with 6 point sockets and try 9/16 and 14mm. if it is really rusty you may have to hammer on a 13mm.
Hi. I am working through this same problem, and came upon an excellent post elsewhere. You may find this information useful yourself. My question is, what's up with a catalytic converter? Don't I need a couple of those as well? What I mean is that I believe mine were cut off, and I'm in an emissions state, CO. So right now, I'm not sure if I need one with an air port in it or both or none. Should I just assume I need two air pumps and catalytic converters with the air port on them to pass emissions?thanks
Here is the parts list:
Item# = 500-69120
Description = Hedman Hedders Headers Motorhomes Class-A 1968-91 396-454 ci, 1-3/4'' Tubes/3'' Collector
Item# = 555-30651
Description = Jeg's Universal H-Pipe Kits H-Pipe Kit, 2.5'' Dia. Tubing
Item# = 555-30561
Description = Jeg's Universal Dual Exhaust Kit w/o Mufflers 3'' Collector to 2-1/2'' Pipe
Item# = 289-17749
Description = Dynomax Hemi Super Turbo Mufflers 2-1/2'' In, 2-1/2'' Out, Offset/Offset
Item# = 720-7158
Description = Mr. Gasket Copper SEAL Exhaust Gasket BB-Chevy Square Port
I plan to buy two 2 1/2" pipes from NAPA to make the long straight run between the muffler and the turn out.
It did not come with converters so it will not need them. as far as the pumps it depends on what type of inspection they do. If it is just an idle sniff test then you can lose the pumps and all of the associated garbage. If they do a visual you have to have ALL of the emissions equipment that was on the vehicle when it was built. You may be able to get an exemption due to age. The best way to get the correct answers is to ask at the local DMV, they will have the most accurate info. We are just suggesting based on what we have found. That can be real expensive for you if they go the full inspection route and you went by our suggestion to remove.
Thanks for the reply.
I thought I'd update here. To follow up on the prior list of parts, I purchased:
Dynomax 15146 - Walker Dynomax Universal Catalytic Converters
JEGS Part Number: 289-15146
2-Way Super Converter
In/Out: 2.5"
Length: 18"
Super Converters flow much better than stock catalytic converters because their flow area is 26% greater than OE. These mono shell stainless steel units flow extremely free (great for engines up to 455 ci), and their single tube design eliminates all the welds common to OE for leakproof operation and greater efficiency.
Colorado where i live requires catalytic converters, so I bit the bullet and purchased the full exhaust system and 2 cats. Use the price match feature on Jegs, it should save you at least a hundred or more on a purchase like this! I hope this information is useful for someone. I've found the forums here and elsewhere to be of much help to me to get this point which would have never happened otherwise.
I can't believe they require you to put converters on a vehicle that never came with them. I have never heard of that. They don't even do that in California!
Hey, At least you will have the cleanest old 454 around. Make darn sure you have real good shielding around that cat since it is going to hit close to 1,000 degrees at speed. That is a lot of radiated heat and there is not a lot of room for it to go under there if you have the underneath compartments.
Quote from: BrandonMc on January 31, 2016, 09:01 PM
Colorado where i live requires catalytic converters...
No state requires the addition of catalytic converters on any vehicle that was legally manufactured without them.
AS you can see from this GM parts page for a 88 P30 chassis with a 454 (http://www.gmpartseast.com/chevy/components/1988-p30_exhaust-system-v8-tp0320950203-le8m40p32032.html), converters are not required.
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gmpartseast.com%2Fdiagrams%2Fsmall%2F52P%2Fexhaust-system-v8-tp03209502.png&hash=b9aedc2c5888de90410440502b259bc73af13802)
Requiring a catalytic converter on a vehicles not originally designed for such would be a dangerous hazard. Modifying a catalytic system from original is also hazardous.
As noted by Rick,... they do radiate A LOT of heat. They get much hotter than mufflers. And not jus from exhaust, but from the additional "catalytic' activity too. It's important to have them properly located as originally designed,... and as other's have noted, this jus wasn't designed for 'em!!! And this is why they are "exempt".
Who hasn't had a carpet fire when messin' with a "kool" muffler install??? (or should I say HOT muffler mod???) Your at a much higher risk with a catalytic converter!!!
Here's an Idea.........It may seem bizarre but think about it for a moment.
Before Catalytic Converters engines ran cooler but as a result of incomplete combustion created more CO 2 Emissions which later contributed to Global Warming.
Now we have Catalytic Converters that produce Tremendous heat right here and now and while combustion is more complete and less greenhouse gases
are produced the global warming is created right here immediately in lieu of later consequence. Net Result = 0
The entire exercise of reducing emissions amounts to Robbing Peter to pay Paul and its all a huge exercise in self deception.
If Im out to lunch here tell me why.
And to trow some fuel on the fire to make it hotter, (just what will happen to the converters) if you put them on an older dirty engine that was not designed to run clean they will put out excessive amounts of oxides of nitrogen. Yes, nitrous oxide to you motor heads but certainly not in the formulation you are accustomed to. This stuff is nasty.
Brandon, You really want to look seriously into this because if you put the converters on there they HAVE to work and that is going to be a tough one to get by a nitrous test.
ohh wow, okay. Glad I checked back in here and will not be doing this additional catalytic converter work. Basically, I read on the clean air website that they would need to have one. I didn't realize these vehicles never had one. Does an 1988 454 Chevy p30 have o2 sensors or air injection do you think? I already purchased the o2 sensors..
http://aircarecolorado.com/about-the-test/ (http://aircarecolorado.com/about-the-test/)
Visual Inspection of Emissions EquipmentAll vehicles are given dashboard warning light and gas cap presence and pressure checks. In addition, vehicle model years 1975 through 1995 are given the following equipment checks, to ensure all required equipment is installed, intact, and in apparent working order:
- Vehicles not originally equipped with these items are not required to have them. Vehicles that were originally equipped with any of them must have them in place in order to pass the emissions test. Gray market vehicles and customer built vehicles must have components appropriate to their model year, or must present evaluation paperwork from a state Emissions Technical Center.
hi, unknown about 02 sensors? might/should have a air pump
hopefully some one else will chime in!
does this unit have a ecm and or fuel injection and or a feedback carburetor?
88 would not have O2 sensors since they have no computer controls. You will have A.I.R. pumps. One or maybe two, most likely two since I have two on my 88. With the pumps you also have A.I.R. injection at the manifolds. You will also have EGR. The vacuum diagram for the hose routing will be on the side of the air cleaner. Item #5 in the list from your DOT states that if it did not come with it then it is not required. You "should" have a emissions label under the hood that states what type of emissions equipment the vehicle is supposed to have. I say Should because it is probably not there. But basically due to your gross weight that alone would exempt you from the cats.
My '87 has a leak at (I suspect) both the manifolds, but I'm not going to mess with it. Doesn't look like a fun job, and I think it's best to just let a sleeping dog lie on that one.
GM did not go to TBI with ECM until 1990 on the P30 chassis (O2 sensor and CATs). 1989 and earlier P30 where carburetor with air pumps (no CAT or O2 sensor). Chevy pickup did have TBI with ECM a few years earlier than the P30 chassis.
Key is:
Carb = no CATs or O2 sensor
TBI = CATs and O2 sensor
Feds did not require all this on heavy truck chassis until several years after cars and light trucks.
Gee :-[ , I just read the books! Opps D:oH! , I forgot real men don't do that! :)rotflmao
But Dave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember that Motor homes are a year behind so a 1990 motor home is most likely on an 89 chassis and therefore will still have a carburetor. I know because I have a 1990 Pace Arrow with a carb. :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao
Quote from: 87Itasca on February 08, 2016, 04:33 PM
My '87 has a leak at (I suspect) both the manifolds, but I'm not going to mess with it. Doesn't look like a fun job, and I think it's best to just let a sleeping dog lie on that one.
If it is leaking bad enough for them to hear it at inspection you will fail since that is an integral part of the emissions system.
Quote from: Rickf1985 on February 08, 2016, 09:40 PM
If it is leaking bad enough for them to hear it at inspection you will fail since that is an integral part of the emissions system.
Ah, but when I am the one inspecting the vehicle in my shop.... :D
Can I ask you a simple question here? IF you are inspecting this in YOUR shop then you must know the laws and regulations involved in state emissions inspections. You must have a state issued inspection license. Why did we have this long drawn out conversation about the converters and pumps and A.I.R. and all of that if you are doing the inspection yourself? I don't really mind giving advice but it kind of irks me when I find it was not needed in the end. Hopefully the information here will help someone surfing in later.
Quote from: 87Itasca on February 08, 2016, 04:33 PM
My '87 has a leak at (I suspect) both the manifolds, but I'm not going to mess with it. Doesn't look like a fun job, and I think it's best to just let a sleeping dog lie on that one.
Are y'all here tellin me you are all still running around with stock 454 manifolds and haven't taken a Grinder to them to make home made headers out of them ?? I did it on mine 10 years ago. You cut out in between each of the 4 exhaust ports and you get a far more positive seal on each individual port than
the stock 1 piece manifold.
Look closely at the pic and you will see what I mean.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/rnb-674-159/overview/make/chevrolet
Hi Rick,
I didn't start the thread, I just chimed in once yesterday saying that mine were leaking, and I wasn't going to worry about it. I wasn't the original poster of the thread. Sorry for any mixup.
Quote from: 87Itasca on February 10, 2016, 08:05 AM
Hi Rick,
I didn't start the thread, I just chimed in once yesterday saying that mine were leaking, and I wasn't going to worry about it. I wasn't the original poster of the thread. Sorry for any mixup.
Sorry about that, after that dragging on so long I forgot who was who. D:oH! Hm? W%
And what the thread originally started out as. A manifold leak thread!
Good morning, Rick;
Apparently the Winnebago Industries people are a little more efficient than the Pace-Arrow people. My 1987 Winnebago Elandan was built in May of 1987, and the GM people built the P37 chassis in early May of 1987. It could be up to a month apart, but not a year. I was quite surprised when looking at the GVWR placard and seeing that the date of manufacture was the same for both the chassis and the body assembly. Many of the individual parts and sub-assemblies also show 1987 dates of manufacture. Or is this just an example of the "Just-in-Time" supply chain system in manufacturing?
And, I thought it was in either 1992 or 1993 that they changed from the carburettor to the TBI EFI system. Or am I confusing that with the time when the Workhorse people took over the manufacturing of the P37 chassis?
Enjoy;
Ralph
Latte Land, Washington
Well, 1990 is when the trucks went to TBI. I don't really know when Workhorse took over and I never even heard of a P37? I have heard of a P38, both the can opener and the airplane, have many of the former scattered around the RV and slide in.
Just found this whilst surfing.
- Workhorse Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Workhorse_Company&action=edit&redlink=1), a Navistar International (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navistar_International) company, was started in 1998 by investors who took over production and sales of General Motors’ popular P-series Stepvan chassis when GM dropped it. Navistar acquired Workhorse in 2005. For a short time Workhorse offered an integrated chassis-body product called MetroStar.
And now for another edit to screw with your head some more.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f22/what-chassis-do-i-have-p30-or-p32-26043-3.html
Quote from: Rickf1985 on February 08, 2016, 09:37 PM
But Dave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember that Motor homes are a year behind so a 1990 motor home is most likely on an 89 chassis and therefore will still have a carburetor. I know because I have a 1990 Pace Arrow with a carb. :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao
Do you still have the th400 trans? I've never seen a motor home that had a carb and an overdrive trans built at the factory. Fleetwood must buy a bunch of chassis in advance because I've seen quite a few that the chassis was a year older than the coach. I knew one guy that had a 88 Bounder that was on a 86 chassis. Both of my Damons have been on the same year chassis. My buddy has a 96 Storm on a 95 chassis, and it's a morfidite. It has a OBD l system with a OBD ll port. We have only found one scanner that will talk to his ecm, that's my Mac. His Snap on won't talk to his ecm because as soon as you hook up the OBD ll connector, you can't tell it is OBD l. On my Mac you can. So there is all sorts of weird things going on with these motor home chassis. I just bought a set of manuals for a 98 P32 motor home P42 commercial forward control chassis. Having some anti lock brake issues with my coach. The light won't go off for maybe 10 minutes some times. Too cold to work on it now but been doing some studding on it.
Yup, still have the 400. The only GM overdrive that was not electronic was the 700R4 and in stock form they wee barely strong enough for a pickup let alone a class A. With modern parts a 700R4 can be built to handle a Class A and I have one but it is earmarked for my Jeep.
I've got to say thanks to all who helped me here. I got too eager to get this work done, and bought that equipment too soon, so I'll take a hit on it. But at least we've set the record straight.
I'll talk to the muffler guy while installing it, he's estimating 200 dollars to do this work with my materials on hand. I'll check back and let you all know how this turned out. Apparently, we'll likely need to add a nipple or something on the manifolds for the air pump equipment.
My 88 p30 has the carb.
In order to pass inspection you will need the correct manifolds or headers with an EO number. It should not be hard to find stock emissions manifolds but if you have to go aftermarket then Banks makes a whole end to end kit. There should be plenty of members on here who have removed all of their emissions stuff that probably still have the pumps, tubes, valves and such. I have all of it on one I am stripping but I am not in a position to get it all off yet. I still need to have it mobile.
I'm going to jump in this thread....
What is a good muffler to replace (looking for stock-type muffler) on the 86 P30? I have round mufflers 7-1/2 inch diameter and 21 inch long. Can't seem to find anything equivalent at Autozone, Advance, or NAPA.
What have you used? (Not shelling out $s for a Banks. Just looking for muffler on back at this point.
WIll this work? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-10435/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-10435/overview/)
or you can work down this chain on the right side of the page http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-10435/overview/ (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-10435/overview/)
Replacement FlowMaster muffler ? If you want it quiet get a 50 Series Bigblock FlowMaster. If you want it noisy . . . get a 40 Series, or any other thing that FlowMaster sells. See - http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/?page_id=10995, and go to Page 2 bottom. Please consider what you want to "hear" as your drive four hours continuous, break, and then drive four more hours continuous. Zoom. Zoom, Lou FMC #120
"
I was thinking the very same thing last week as I drove eight hours in my Dodge diesel dually with a 4" exhaust and a high flow muffler. It gets noisy after a while and then you go numb to it. You don't even try to listen to the radio. I will be tearing out the interior this summer and putting in a lot of Dynamat. I don't know how guys go with straight through exhaust and then drive all day at speed with it.
In my early 20's I rode Harleys, the louder the better.....Now I'm 40 years old, and they piss me off as they haul a$$ from stop light to stop light....I laugh about it now, and wonder how many people I pissed off back in the day!! Don't get me wrong, I love the Harley v-twin "potato,potato,potato" rumble....Just not at 1,000 decibels breathing fire....I'm thankful I am having the privilege to grow old, so many of us don't. :(
Quote from: hemi354az on February 17, 2016, 12:05 AM
Replacement FlowMaster muffler ? If you want it quiet get a 50 Series Bigblock FlowMaster. If you want it noisy . . . get a 40 Series, or any other thing that FlowMaster sells. See - http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/?page_id=10995 (http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/?page_id=10995), and go to Page 2 bottom. Please consider what you want to "hear" as your drive four hours continuous, break, and then drive four more hours continuous. Zoom. Zoom, Lou FMC #120
Yeah, I don't see the Flowmasters as being quiet. I don't want to hear it at all with a 10K mile trip.
The only ones I found that even look close to being the right fit are the Gibson ones (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/gib-788706/overview/). I'll have to find a place that can custom bend the tailpipes off the vehicle too.
Instead of buying high performance mufflers get stock replacements for a big block car. Think Cadillac or Lincoln. As long as the inlet and outlet match the size and the length will fit then they are good. Walker is a good brand of replacement mufflers for the stock industry. Any high performance muffler is going to drone at certain RPMs.
Here is just an example from their site. Get the dimensions from your originals and plug them in.
http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/walker-exhaust-systems/universal-muffler-dimension-search (http://www.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/walker-exhaust-systems/universal-muffler-dimension-search)
Tailpipes and front pipes are available, mufflers you will have to get by size.
http://catalog.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/resultsDiagramDisplay.do?diagramNumber=13_02060&catalogCode=walkerexhaustasset&locale=en&loadStatus=ACTIVE (http://catalog.walkerexhaust.com/catalog/resultsDiagramDisplay.do?diagramNumber=13_02060&catalogCode=walkerexhaustasset&locale=en&loadStatus=ACTIVE)
Can I jump in on this one as well......
Talking about CATs and the TBI.......can you ditch the CAT on a 94 454 TBI ?? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't need it over here for emissions testing so I'm wondering if it's an integral part of the computer control and if the engine will run fine with it removed.....Phew, I said all that without taking a single breath.
Cheers.
hi, it shouldn't make diff / unless you have a pre & post cat o2 sensors =if I remember correct that rig of yours should be old enough not to have a pre/post cat o2's .if thus is the case it would not effect your fuel curve at all
1994 = should be obd1 = with just one o2 sensor = on right manifold if I remember correctly?
Hi Sleeth,
Thanks for the reply....
Just one o2 sensor, it's just at the bottom of the down pipe on the drivers side. Definitely pre cat.
Thanks again.
u welcome/i use to work on 454 big blocks all the time(for a living) = back when I wore a younger mans cloths!!!
u guys don't have any kind of e-test over there? or e-bobby's?
Why take the cat off? You won't get any better fuel mileage, and it may stink sometimes. If it's bad, I can see taking it off, but if it's still good, leave it.
Quote from: Rickf1985 on February 17, 2016, 05:55 PM
... Walker is a good brand of replacement mufflers for the stock industry...
Thank you Rick for the tip. I just bought 2 from Amazon. I don't think Walker has the tail pipes I need, but I emailed them to check for sure. Also there is a local shop that will custom bend new ones to match the ones I cut off with the torch.
Pipes in front of the muffler look good still. I may change out the donuts on the downpipes when I get up to the front of the vehicle, but that's probably another month away.
Plan on buying replacement studs for the ones that are guaranteed to break off in the manifolds.
Hi Guys,
I was asking more for if it fails in the future and the cost of a replacement over here. If it ain't broke etc etc...
Cheers. :)ThmbUp
Quote from: stopngo on February 09, 2016, 12:33 PM
Are y'all here tellin me you are all still running around with stock 454 manifolds and haven't taken a Grinder to them to make home made headers out of them ?? I did it on mine 10 years ago. You cut out in between each of the 4 exhaust ports and you get a far more positive seal on each individual port than
the stock 1 piece manifold.
Look closely at the pic and you will see what I mean.
http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/rnb-674-159/overview/make/chevrolet (http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/rnb-674-159/overview/make/chevrolet)
Well that's interesting. Have these mod jobs held up well enough over time to warrant doing this?
I'm coming back to report that I have purchased, but not installed headers (http://www.jegs.com/i/Hedman/500/69120/10002/-1) yet due to emissions requirements of the county I live in (maybe someday). In the next few weeks, weather permitting, I will have the exhaust fabricated by a local guy, and installed at the manifold.
2.5" diameter exhaust pipe (DaveVA78Chieftain recommends 2-1/4" as indicated above for his 440 Dodge)
Universal Install Kit (http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/30561/10002/-1)
H-Pipe (http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/30651/10002/-1)
High performance mufflers (http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/30651/10002/-1)
The one thing I'm concerned about now is those high performance mufflers droning on at particular RPM as mentioned earlier by Rickf1985. And here's a review: Load's O Drone -
Good sound at idle, Horrible drone between 1600-2100 rpm, I will be returning to Dynomax.Well, once again, I got too carried away and ordered all these things. Now looking into some other options before I have this work completed. Thanks
Quote from: BrandonMc on January 04, 2017, 09:04 PM
The one thing I'm concerned about now is those high performance mufflers droning on at particular RPM as mentioned earlier by Rickf1985. And here's a review: Load's O Drone - Good sound at idle, Horrible drone between 1600-2100 rpm, I will be returning to Dynomax.
Well, once again, I got too carried away and ordered all these things. Now looking into some other options before I have this work completed. Thanks
Did some searching and found this encouraging post (http://www.trifive.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-50860.html).... perhaps I will try these super turbos out after all and report back and give a photo update. Worse I can do is make a 200 dollar mistake either way at this point.
QuoteMufflers... I think I probably could hold the worlds record of different types used on a trifive. I've been driving my car actively since 1998. I started out with some Walker turbo's until they started to rattle.. then I ran some (cheap) Summit Racing house brand turbo's for a time. Decided to get on the Flowmaster wagon with a set of Delta 40's (and added a H-pipe). Liked the sound of the FM's, but, the interior drone was awful. Moved to Mississippi, and had some Edelbrock's installed. They had a very cool sound for about 6 months, and the inlet pipes on both of them came loose from the main body.. then I went back to FM's, this time the Delta 50's. I actually liked them (alot).Got a new wife.She HATED the FM's. What does a guy do for a new wife that hates FM's?He goes muffler shopping... again...
I've now settled on Dynomax Super Turbo's 17748. Ended up finally changing out my old headers with Hooker Super Comp's, JetHot coated, new pipes (H also) and (2 1/2") tail pipes. I (think) I'm finally settled. Interestingly, I've gone full circle back to pretty close to what I was running from the git-go. Do I like the Dynomax's? Yes in a word. No drone, fairly quiet... and happy wife. :)
but then, I see this (http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-general/1443891-turbo-mufflers-vs-stock.html):
QuoteThe dynomax super turbos get louder as they are used more. My friends were fairly quiet when new but two years later I can hear him coming from a mile away.
Hi,
I just wanted to make a note that if anyone was following, or otherwise will be interested in what I did with my 87 Chieftain, and '88 P30 chassis exhaust, I recommend reading this report (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,13539.msg81033.html#msg81033).
Thanks for all your input here RICK and DAVE!! I expect I can save some people a headache and some money.