Well we're off and running. The engine is up at the machine shop. The game plan is to pick it up running in about a week and a half. Just finished picking up some of the new parts. Remembering these are Canadian prices. Oh yeah, the block is a donner block from Dave and Mary's 1972 Winnebago that the tree fell on and cut in half.
New 318 Rebuild:
Electronic Module $74.05
Starter Relay $23.06
Coil $42.62
Plug Wires $48.05
Fuel Pump $43.35
Distributor $103.35
New Plugs 8 $24.16
Voltage Regulator $8.50
Alternator $117.50
Starter $126.00
Ballast Resister $10.20
Oooop! Forgot the Thermostat $10.80
Gasket $ 1.96
Just got back from the machine shop. Call it as you will but boy she looks like a brand new engine. Dave said that when he bought the bago she only had around 27-30,000 miles on her. When I asked Mic what he thought he said she looked like she hadn't very many miles on her he could believe that it was a low mileage engine. He wished he got more engines in to start with like this one. Got lots of picks if anyones interested. Hope to get more as things come together.
Well just got back from the machine shop. Holy Cow wish I new how to post pictures. They just finished boring the block and were balancing the crank with the flex plate on it with the harmonic balancer. Pretty neat stuff. The heads were shaved and put together and they expect to start putting her together on Monday. Hope to get back up and get more picks Monday. :laugh:
Here is the Engine Dave and Mary donated to the cause.
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Here she is on Friday. There suppose to start putting her together today Monday the 17th.
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OK! Just back from the machine shop. Great bunch of guys there. They actually let you in the shop to see what their doing. It almost looks like a NASCAR shop it's so clean. Here's what it looks like when the balance the harmonic balancer, crank shaft and flex plate.
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This is what the pistons look like.
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She balanced and blue printed and their putting her together as we speak. Mick said I was more than welcome to come back tomorrow and take more picks. Don't know the price yet. Scares the hell out of me but something had to be done. Any way here's the heads finished.
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Valve springs:
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Well went to check her out today and this is what she looked like. Were getting close. I don't know weather to be excited or scared s%#&*ss. The bill is just around the corner. :(
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The reason I'm doing this is to give those who follow a base line on what it might cost them should they find themselves in the same boat as Lauren and I. There are many ways that money can be saved on a project such as this. But it will give you an honest idea what it would cost. I'm sure many will under stand, didn't want to do it, can't afford to do it, but it had to be done. :-[
looking really good. one other thing to consider before a rebuild is, what do you want out of the engine. do you want the basic rings, bearings and gasket rebuild or the full out machine everything with new internals rebuild. also don't forget that summit racing, jegs and others sell complete engines for close to the cost of a rebuild.
All really good points especially the crate engines. I think they were getting up around $4,000.00. In my case I wanted to physically see what I was getting. Also I went stock because I wanted it bullet proof. I'm a great lover of stock 318, 283, 289, 327 etc. for reliability.
did you guys go with a diffrent intake manifold and waterpump arrangement? the motor in the first pics the w/p feeds into the heads directly and in the new ones the timing cover looks diffrent and looks like the pump feeds the block first and the water crossover is in the intake,a la car motor. why did this change ?is that a aluminum manifold? if so what parts are crossing over....from reg, car motors?.......................fabricator john 73 d-18 brave
Hey John, good eye. We didn't change the intake manifold. We did change the timing chain cover for two reasons. 1) I don't know what I'm doing or how things fit in the motor home so when I saw that the timing chain cover on the 1972 318 was taller and the 1974 timing chain cover was shorter I chickened out and put in the shorter timing chain cover. Also the 1972 timing chain cover is cast and the 1974 is aluminum. With the 1972 you have to change the oil seal from in side the timing chain cover where on the 1974 you can change it from out side on the front of the cover. If I had of stayed with the 1972 timing chain cover I would have had to change the pulley's and belts because of the difference in heights. Also on the 1972 the timing chain markings were on the passangar side of the motor and on a separate piece of metal were on the shorter 1974 timing chain cover timing markings are cast right into the aluminum on the drivers side. So like I said earlier since I don't know what I'm doing I just keep looking at my old motor and keep trying to make my new one look the same so everything fits. Hope this helps. Hm? T.J.
TJ ......the tall one is the same as my 73 is ,probbably a good move on your part anyways beacause im is probbably alot easier to get a water pump when your cruisin through "resume speed" arizona,,, do the heads interchange whith any other dodge stuff? if so will the intake ,cam etc....? your doing a great job keep it up!!!!!!! fabricator john
Well, Don't know. But I'll be going back up to the machine shop Thursday or Friday as this weekend is a holiday weekend in Canada and the boys won't be back until Tuesday. We've had one hick-up and that is the new two barrel cab hasn't come in yet. So when I go up towards the end of the week and I'll asks the boys?
Two will do, But 4 means MORE (if you need it) Horsepower & omphh And you can still operate on 2 for mileage You may find me but you wont catch me ;) Frank
Well she made it to the test stand this morning and the boys figure she'll be ready to run tomorrow or Friday. That's when I get to find out how much I've spent. Get out the paddles.
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Well I've never put one of these things in before so I guess there's a first time for everything. Wish me luck. If your interested I'll keep taking pictures of the whole process? Hm?
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Winnies in.
Well today was the big day. We fired her for the first time. :)clap
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Getting her ready to load....final run :laugh:
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Well with a deep breath I started D:oH! First step was to lift the front end. so I built a couple of ramps out of some junk railroad ties and some spare two by six's. Lift was about 10"
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Let's you sit up underneath
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The next challenge was how am I going to keep track of all the parts. How's three different sizes of Ziploc bags,hospital tape, Sharpie and zip ties.
First thing I removed was the 4 bolts that hold the bumper on and removed the bumper.
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Next I removed the trim piece between the upper and lower grill.
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Four self taping screws were extracted in order to remove the lower grill.
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With the removell of four more self taping screws the upper grill is removed.
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Next I removed the grill latch so as to have nothing protruding into the grill opening.
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It's out! :)rotflmao It's out! :)clap It's out! :laugh: I'm so dam excited I forgot to take Pictures. :D Golly. But I did screw up. But I'll tell ya about it when I settle down. Eeeeehaaa
OK so next was to remove the Washer Fluid Jug and Bracket.
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Next to come out was the Rad over flow tank from under the passengers side wheel well.
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Remove the U-bolt that holds the Oil Tube and Dip Stick to the Rad.
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You can now remove the radiator bracket bolts on the frame on both sides.
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You have to detach the fan shroud first. Set it back over the Fan and then lift the rad out.
Be prepared the rad is heavy.
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Next your going drain the fluid out of the Rad. Once completed remove both upper and lower rad hoses. Also undo both transmission cooling lines from the lower part of the rad. If you can pick up a set of inexpensive line wrenches. It will save you a lot of grief from rounding the nuts on the transmission lines as well as twisting the lines..
Well! There she is in all her glory. It almost seems like it's worth pulling the rad when you have to work on the Engine. It gives you tons of room and easy access to almost everything.
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If you look to the bottom left of the picture of the engine you'll see the canister. It's the next to go.
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Power Steering pumps the next to go.
Fluid line connections to the steering gear:
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The power steering Pump and lines removed:
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Fan and Pulley next.
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TIP. TJ now is the time to replace the rad fan clutch assy (and you can paint the fan blade wile its off) You can see how much trouble it is to get back to the fan clutch when it goes bad . Congratulations on provideing the detailed process 37 days left Frank
Good idea Frank. Thanks. I'll look in to that. With everything you have to think of and keep track of you always miss something. I'm really amazed at how easy this has been so far. Especially since I really have no mechanical skills. I'm really hoping this helps out some of the younger fellows that don't have a lot of money but find themselves in a position of having to replace an engine and can't afford it, or maybe even have to sell there rig because of it. This can be done way way cheaper than the way I'm doing it. But hopfully shows how to do it.
Ok, we're getting a good pictorial of the motor, but the title of this topic is "318 rebuild costs". Where's the cost breakdown?
Stand By it's coming :'( I should be getting the bill Friday
1 Dismantle Engine $80.00
1 Clean Engine $199.00
8 Bore Cylinders $36.00 $288.00
8 Fit Piston Pins $14.50 $116.00
8 Install Valve Seats NC
16 Install Valve Guides $8.00 $128.00
1 Grind Crank $148.00
1 Aline Main $200.00
1 Install Cam $ 65.00
8 Machine Con. Rods $18.00 $144.00
1 Assemble Engine $600.00
2 Surface Cylinder Heads $60.00 $121.00
1 Surface Cylinder Block $120.00
2 Surface Ex Manifolds NC
2 Recondition Cylinder Heads $223.00
1 Engine Run In & Tune, Change Oil $800.00
1 Engine Kit $776.52
16 Push Rods $4.00 $ 64.00
8 Exhaust Valves $22.36 $178.88
8 Intake Valves $26.00 $208.00
8 Exhaust Springs $ 5.00 $ 40.00
8 Intake Springs $3.00 $ 24.00
32 Valve Locks $ .30 $ 9.60
1 Pump Shaft $ 43.92
1 Rebuilt Carb $225.00
Balance & Blue Print NC
Total With All Applicable Taxes $ 5,426.16 ???
Wow, didn't realize how much valve train components cost! Note the expense of "engine run-in" and "Clean engine". These, for someone who has the ability to do so are items which can reduce the cost significantly. Of course, the run-in phase is extremely important to insure all the work has been done correctly and to identify anything amiss before re-installation.
Wow! That was expensive, eh? Isn't it cheaper to buy an already rebuilt crate engine from someone like Jasper? Especially for the 318? Or would you recommend a rebuild because of the unique motorhome application...in other words, because the cam is different for lower torque?
Are there any other differences in the rebuilt motor and a crate motor that makes it worth the extra price?
Kev
Well there's know doubt that it was expensive and certainly caught me of guard. However weither it's right or wrong, smart or stupid a good deal or a bad deal everyone now has a bench mark to work from. These are real numbers. Do I feel like a fool. Well it's a lot more money than I had so I guess the proof is in the running. It is what it is. We'll see. As I'm sure you can see there are a lot of places were one can save money. But again now you have some real numbers to work from.
TJ, when its all said and done, your going to have a very reliable rig that will last for a very long time. And if you can, keep posting the pictures, it lets the rest of us know what were getting into if we have to pull ours out.
Good stuff. I can say that if you take your time and are careful it is a one man job. I say this as I am currently bolting in the rad today as soon as I sign off. Which means....gotta go..the lady awaits. :laugh:
this engine is no comparason to a jasper or other mass produced rebuild ,a hand built engine takes real parts and real man hours to do the money sounds right on the mark for a real deal quality rebuild ,add port and polish ,micro balance ,hi comp pistons and rad cam and its a race engine ,,,no diffrence...you get what ya pay for ,,,quality costs ...im in the industry ...it does.................................fabricator john
TJ- fabricator john is right- there is no comparison - I worked for an automotive machine shop for 11 years and I rebuilt and installed hand built engines like yours and also mass produced rebuilds - the return rate on the mass produced engines was about 30% - know what its like to install a crate engine and then have to pull it back out again because a cylinder was smoking or the engine would not run correctly (how about a timing chain that was not installed correctly and the camshaft timing was off?) or no oil pressure in the engine??? (that's the one I like!!) -these companies (not all of them) allow you only so much time to re& re the engine (that you just installed) and to fix the problem and in many cases the time allowed was less than a new engine warranty repair time from the auto manufactures- with one company we ended up sending the customer to them (they had there own repair shop (that should tell you something) because they claimed we were making too any warranty claims- as fabricator john says you only get what you pay for - what you have is a hand machined, built, assembled and test run engine that will give you many hours of service- with a mass produced engine you do not have any idea of what they did or did not replace - the cheaper the cost the less they replaced - how about a rebuilt engine that has 6 new pistons and two original pistons because the two are within factory wear tolerance? - happens all the time- and the machine shop let you see what they were doing including the assembly AND they did not charge you for the installation of the valve seats, machining the exhaust manifolds and balancing and blueprinting the engine assembly (balancing and blueprinting starts at $500.00 and goes up from there- you not only got a DEAL but an engine that was rebuilt by someone who is qualified for that job - a modern day engine rebuild done by hand starts at around 3-4000 (4 cylinder) - 5000 and up for a V-8 - you have had everything done to properly recondition the engine and extra (balancing and blueprinting - might be a good idea to give this shop a good review on www.rvservicereviews.com (http://www.rvservicereviews.com) - good luck with your installation and let us know how it turns out!
Thanks for the answers! I only asked because eventually we'll have to rebuild or replace the motor in our Itasca. Its a 454, and only has 119,000 on it, but we rack up the miles and they don't last forever.
Jasper has the 454 for 2900.00 built to motorhome specs. They also do custom, so add another 500 for b/b, and the cost is 3400. Still cheaper. They claim that they replace every part, and they are an American shop out of the Carolinas. By the time you pay the freight shipping, its getting closer to what this rebuild cost. I've heard good things about Jasper, and nothing bad so far, and my old Dodge van had a Jasper engine AND transmission in it, from a P/O, and the rebuilds were still doing fine after close to another 100K miles...that old green Dodge van with a 318 had a LOT of miles on its chassis...lol!
Please continue with the thread of this post and lots of pics! I'd love to be ready for the day when we have to do it.
Kev
Kev - if Jasper certifies and lists what they do (machining etc.) and lists the parts they replace then it sounds like this company is a reputable re-builder - one definite sign of this is the warranty they offer - where they may be able to cut costs is in volume rebuilding - they may still have a production line setup and do an excellent job but if they are selling a lot of motors then that is a good indicator of the reconditioning process they stand behind - you mentioned that you only have 119,000 on your Chev big block - are you sure that you need to replace it? - if this is the original mileage I would check the condition of your engine first before spending the money - I would do a compression and cylinder leakage test(s) first- if the engine has good compression and cylinder leakage tests and the tests do not show more than 10 -15 % difference between the cylinders, does not consume or burn oil or engine antifreeze then you may want to consider holding off until something happens with it- if you maintain the powertrain then you should be able to get many more miles out of it - at 119.000 you still have a lot of service life in it - another reason for the difference in prices of a rebuild (taking for granted both shops are reputable ) is the type of parts they install - cast OEM pistons or forged, stock timing chain or a more heavy duty or high performance chain set, standard or high performance camshaft, connecting rod and crankshaft bearings, etc. - find out what Jasper does for the extra 500 for a custom rebuild - usually for a stock application they will add a higher performance camshaft, timing chain, different pistons, engine blue printing and balancing, and may even throw in some extra work on the cylinder heads such as they did with TJ's motor - these days when you buy a new part or piece of equipment or whatever you cannot be sure of where the part(s) are coming from - in one of the auto and industrial supply stores here in Canada I am seeing small portable generators with gas engines made in China - after checking with a few small engine shops I am being told by more than one of them that the motors on these gensets are "throw-aways" and are good for light duty use only - engine rebuilding is one of the last areas where the off shore manufactures can't touch (as far as machining and the labor to recondition the engine goes) but offshore parts may be included in the "cheap rebuilds" - TJ was able to not only see the engine being put together but was also able to see what kind of parts went into his motor and also the workmanship that this machine shop put into his engine. :)ThmbUp
Jasper offers a 3 year, 100K mile warranty, so they probably use decent parts.
Our engine runs great...I'm just thinking about the future since we plan on keeping this rig for life..in another 3 years, with the miles we rack up, we'll be at 200K plus. Eventually it will have to be rebuilt, but until then I change the oil and filter religiously every 3000 miles...and sometimes, like our trip to Arizona, it means I change the oil in North Carolina, drive to Florida, then Arizona, and have to change the oil again...lol!
Kev
Well Kev, the one thing I've seen and learned over many years is if you change the oil and filter, watch your air filter and keep the engine tuned on a regular bases like your doing, baring any catastrophic failure (drop a valve,etc.) you can get as much as 300,000 to 400,00 miles on a good old U.S of A engine.
"Jasper offers a 3 year, 100K mile warranty, so they probably use decent parts."
Yup, I've put many Jasper engines in and have had extremely good luck with them. You pay a bit more for them compared to a NAPA rebuild, but they also make minor upgrades to known problem areas of the engine or transmission they are rebuilding. For example, the older Dodge Caravans had issues with the planetary gears in their transmissions getting hot and causing fatigue and eventually failure. Jasper transmissions had a modified set of gears in them that spun more oil around them and prevented this issue.
Tomorrows the big day. Lauren and I are going to take her on her first real shake down run about a 150 mile round trip. I guess we'll find out if a mechanical neophyte can actually pull one of these things and put it back in and have it run right. If it works all you other guys can stop worrying because you to will be able to do it.
Oh man I hate to do this but I gotta tell the story. Just got back from our first 180 mile shake down run. D:oH! She ran like a dream, just like an old singer sewing machine. Well sort of. All went well for the first 60 miles until she started to hesitate. No big deal we had arrived at destination and were going to have a good time....we did. This morning we go ready to leave and we had trouble starting her...but she started. Got about 15 miles down the road and she quite out in the middle of no mans land. Couldn't figure it out, waited a while and she started fine. Got a few more miles down the road and she back fired and blew the mufflers of. shoot! To make a long story short after changing out Voltage regulators, Electronic Modules and bailest resistors, all new it turned out to be the BRAND NEW COIL crapped out. So just because everything is brand new doesn't mean there's any guarantees. Oh! and we finally made it home. THE END N:(
In My many years of auto repair there have been few ignition coil faiures The funny part is most of them acted the same as yours with a staggered and mysterious death. Also when you suddenly have a new problem its always a good idea to suspect the new items. Ha Ha! In your case, that's a whole boatload. Congratulations on a job well done! Frank
So the next step was to remove the nuts that held the exhaust on to the exhaust manifold passenger side and then driver side
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Ok so now is the time to support the transmission. I used a floor jack with 2x4's
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Time to get access to the Flex Plate and Torque Converter by removing the dust cover.
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Dust cover removed
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So now I got to figure how to lift the engine as the regular carb lift plate won't work. So I took to pieces of angle iron and welded them together turned them up side down,set the carb on them marked the four bolt holes and drilled them to the size of the carburetor bolts. Then drill a few holes in order to move the chain for balance. Crude but it worked.
NOW!
Here's one of the lessons learned if I had to do it again I would put all for wheels on railroad ties and NOT TILT the front end. The add height would have made things a lot easier all the way around. Both in terms working under her as well as pulling the engine out. In the following pictures you will see a clevis on the lift plate. WRONG....you don't have that much play room. When they say it's tight there not kidding. You only have enough room to put one chain link in the cherry picker and two links one on each side of the lift plate. Guess what? and that's the picture I didn't get.
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Ok! Ya getting nervous cause I surely am. This is it. Oh yeh! there's always one. You have to take the oil filter off in order to get one of the bolts out in order to split the engine.
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Looking down from inside. Removing the top tranny bolts ???
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Well lets hook her up before she falls out and hits the floor.
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Oh shoot I forgot the engine mounts.....Duh...that's what happens when your nervous and it's the first time. Oh well that won't be the only thing you forget. :laugh:
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Ok! Yeh got a million things running through your head. Have you disconnected everything. Nup ya forgot the four bolts that hold the flex plate to the Torque converter which holds the engine to the tranny.
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Well I think I got everything now here go's nothing. Carefully lift the motor mounts so they just clear. Ready? ??? start wiggleing. At this point the only thing that should be holding the engine in place are two dowel pins on the engine as well as the little nub on the torque converter. Wiggle like crazy.
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It's OUT :)clap Holy Cow it's OUT! I did it by myself and I Did it. Holy Cow. :)rotflmao
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Well guys never done anything like this ever. So why did I subject myself to this trauma. Well not everyone has a "Wonder" Brad close by or a Frank that are honest and charge a fair price. There are a lot of those guys out there that just LOVE to see guys like you and me come in so they can put their kids though Univerity on your pay check. Chances are even if you don't know what your doing you'll do a better job than they will or even can. Yes, as you can see you can do it your self and save about $2,000.00 dollars right off the top. Hope this helped someone out.
IMPORTANT!
Zip Lock Freezer bags. Every and I mean every nut, bot,washer,lock washer,gasket,part. Put it in a bag and lable it.
Pictures. Take a picture of the part to be removed and then take a picture after the part is removed. Lots and lots of pictures.
Yes you can do it. :)clap