Author Topic: adding a horn with different wiring  (Read 12273 times)

Offline moonlitcoyote

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adding a horn with different wiring
« on: April 27, 2013, 11:55 AM »
Since I Cannot find the source of my horn/dm fuse/circuit draining my battery, I'd like to wire up my horn or even a newer louder horn without going through that circuit. Is this at all possible? I do not need the dome light so figured I could just leave that fuse out and wire in a horn somehow/somewhere else. If any of that made sense could I get some input please and thank you..


MJ

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2013, 05:57 PM »
Installing a new horn is basically just replacing some of the existing circuit.  You will at least have to reuse the wiring to the horn wring from the existing horn relay.

New circuit would look like:
Note: For horn ring thats .5 BLK-28, not .5 BLK-20.



As shown in the picture, you would acquire a new 40 amp Aux relay from the auto supply house.



Dave
PS: Please note you basically are only making a duplicate circuit of what you already have.

Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 02:51 PM »
Dave, I love the way you ad pics now if I could just get you to speak to me in laymans terms we would have a fabulous relationship :)


What is a horn ring? I'm guessing that my horn isnt wearing earings or any kind of jewlery.

Offline bluebird

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 03:51 PM »
If you're capable to wire up a new circuit for the horn, you're capable to find where the load is on the original circuit. The horn ring is under the cap on the steering wheel. The circuit is complete when the horn button is pushed. It makes a ground, and therefore energizes the horn relay. The relay has 12v power all the time. The relay can't be bad if the horn only works when grounded. 

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 06:23 PM »
MJ,
If you look at the drawing above, and compare it to the chassis diagram we went through the other day, you will discover they are almost the same thing.  All the diagram above represents is a parallel circuit to what is there now.  It is the standard way to wire a horn.   A relay is used to prevent full current for the horn being drawn trough the sterring wheel.  As Bluebird indicated, the horn ring is the portion in the steering wheel that acts as the switch when you honk the horn.
As I indicated before, I still feel your drain problem is that something was added to the headlight wire (ORG-240).

Dave

Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2013, 07:29 PM »
Thank you for explaining what the horn ring is.

Dave I dont that your probably correct that something was added, the problem is I cant hit the road in a week without a horn and when I tried to find the ORN 240 wire, I found a BUNCH of orange wires, and without being able to take the dash apart to gain better access I dont see a way of figuring it out. I know where the relay is in the engine compartment, I had to replace it when I hooked up the horn, and when I disconnected all the wires from it I still had the drain. I tried to follow the wires back into the dash from there but the firewall is in the way from the outside and when I climb under the dash it is such a mess I have no idea which wire it is I am supposed to be following. If I remember correctly there is supposed to be 2 relays but I have no clue where the other one would be to check it.

Anyway, I was hoping I could somehow skip all that, put some 12v power to the horn ring in the steering wheel or tie it into a different fuse and run a new wire from there to a new horn. But It seems that wouldnt work, so I guess for now I will have to deal with the drain on the battery and hook up my solar charger whenever we stop.

Thanks for the help guys, it's very much appreciated.

MJ

Offline bluebird

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2013, 08:29 PM »
You can run another hot wire to the original horn relay, but make sure it's fused. Run it to both post 30 and 85 on the relay. The horn ring is the ground side of the circuit. Then you can pull the fuse that's causing you trouble.

Offline Oz

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2013, 08:53 PM »
Quote
What is a horn ring?

A horn ring is like a nose ring, except the bull wears it through its horn instead.   i??

Hey, you have your definitions... I have mine...
Previously enjoyed our '74 - D24 Indian & '74 - D24 Indian Custom

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2013, 09:22 PM »
I know this is frustrating when you are not familure with all this MJ.  For reference, the horn relay is normally under the dash, not out in the engine compartment.

Dave

Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 09:19 AM »
Thats the definition I was thinking Mark, but thought how in the world do you get a ring through a horn? lol

Dave, wasn't there 2 relays on the diagram? The one in the engine compartment looks exactly like the one in your picture above and the wiring goes from there to the horn's (theres 3 of them) and also back inside the cab. But it doesnt have the ORN wire.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 11:16 AM »
Ahh, well then someone (PO) has modified your setup to add the horns and they must have added new wiring.  I know you are not going to like me having to say this but, the horn ring wire may be the only common thing to the original setup.  This is one of those things one has to decipher on each vehicle.  Without wire tracing, I would have no clue how they tapped the new circuits in.  All I can give you is concept, not details.
Either way, the coil (pins 85 and 86) on the relay ( the one you found in the engine bay) has to have the wire from the horn ring and a 12VDC supply source attached to it.  Like the original, they may have shared the coil 12VDC supply and the horn supply (pin 30) signal or provided seperate sources for each leg. 

I will put together a concept drawing (during my lunch break) so you can at least understand what I mean. 

Ohh, this may or may not have anything to do with the initial "battery drain" problem.

Dave

Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2013, 12:11 PM »
If I knew more about how the wiring worked, I would be so much better off. I was thinking to add a wire from say the cigar lighter fuse and run it to the horn ring giving it power then run new wires from the horn ring to the relay.

Maybe when we get back to Maine I can tear the dash out and be able to trace wires, but it's seriously not something I REALLY want to mess with. I already have so much I need to do. I wonder how expensive it is for a garage to do it, lol.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2013, 12:52 PM »
A drawing with the stock relay replaced by a aftermarket relay



A drawing of what I suspect is close to what the PO did for the horn.  You can also see how the dome light circuit fits into this.



Dave



Offline M & J

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2013, 02:19 PM »
Or if you stop close by in Kentucky.
M & J

Offline ClydesdaleKevin

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2013, 04:43 PM »
You can go really simple by just getting a momentary push button switch rated for higher amps, then mount it somewhere on the dash, even temporarily like on a bracket under the dash, run a hot wire to it (with an inline fuse of course), then a hot wire from the button to the horn.  Super simple circuit to get you going, then fix the wiring for real when you have more time. 

Here is one on eBay, but this switch is sold in almost every auto parts store in the "Help" section:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12-VOLT-AOOOGA-OOOGA-AOOGA-OOGA-AHOOGAH-HORN-PUSH-BUTTON-FLUSH-MOUNT-SWITCH-JA2-/330690378584

They look like this:



No relay required.  Just quick and dirty wiring.  12volt +---------Fuse---------Switch------------+ terminal on horn.  Negative terminal on horn straight to ground.  Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

These switches even flush mount so you can screw it right down without drilling any holes. 

Just a thought!

Kev
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Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2013, 04:53 PM »
I seem to be missing as in not finding the existing horn relay connector. That doesnt look like the relay in the engine compartment right?

Thank you Kevin, thats what I need to get me on the road. I will swing by an auto store tomorrow and see what I can find.

Offline Froggy1936

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2013, 05:53 PM »
Hi Moon Caution! Do not run 12v power to horn ring wire The horn ring is a connection to Ground Applying hot 12V to this wire will let the smoke get out of the wire (FIRE) A garage should not charge an arm and a leg if you tell them you have already diagnoised the draw to the wireing supplied by the Horn / dome light Frank
The Journey is the REWARD !

Offline ClydesdaleKevin

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2013, 06:16 PM »
You are welcome, MC birthday girl!  Just DON'T skip the fuse!!!

Again: 

12 volt +------------------Inline Fuse-----------------Pushbutton switch---------------+ terminal on Horn----HORN----Negative terminal on horn right to chassis.

NEVER skip a fuse or circuit breaker.

Kev
Kev and Patti, the furry kids, our 1981 Ford F-100 Custom tow vehicle, and our 1995 Itasca Suncruiser Diesel Pusher.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2013, 08:56 PM »
MJ,
If you go the Dorman horn button route be aware it is only rated for 6 amps.
http://www.dormanproducts.com/p-22871-85929.aspx.  Your horns cannot pull any more than 6 amps.

Dormans Installation sheet: http://www.dormanproducts.com/documents4rb/brand/CTp5ver2.pdf which is the same thing I been saying all along.

Dave




Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2013, 12:05 PM »
UGH, now I'm all confused again. Nice picture tho Dave. Seriously, I am just giving up and going without a horn. This job is for someone that has some experience and knows "what" they are looking for. Someday maybe I can get together with someone that can point things out to me. I have always been better at hands on learning than reading and figuring out for myself.  The picture makes it look easy as pie, BUT the fact that you cannot get to the fuse panel or see the wires makes it a whole different ball game.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2013, 12:41 PM »
I can relate MJ.  I sort of knew this was not going to be the easiest thing to explain.

If it helps, here is what the original horn relay under the dash looks like:


And the connector that attaches to it:


I suspect it is attached to the side of the steering column support bracket

Dave

Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2013, 02:29 PM »
Now THAT makes more sense, did I forget to mention at the beginning that I have No idea what I'm doing. :)

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2013, 03:48 PM »
LOL - well shucks, if i was there I would point to it.  Besides, you kept saying somebody changed it all.

Dave

Offline moonlitcoyote

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2013, 04:57 PM »
Actually, it was you that said a PO probably changed something. I have no idea whats been changed and what hasnt because I have no idea what anything is supposed to look like or where its supposed to be. But tomorrow I will check around the steering column and see if I can find something that looks like that picture.

Offline bluebird

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Re: adding a horn with different wiring
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2013, 06:37 PM »
I just looked in my chassis manual, it is for a 95. But the wiring is like Dave says. Same color code ect. My manual shows the horn relay on the metal bracket that holds the steering column, brake pedal assy. Don't know if your coach has a factory cooling fan, but it shows the horn and cooling fan relay mounted next to each other. I wouldn't jerry rig it anymore if it was mine. Pay somebody to come work on it for you, shouldn't cost that much. I'd pay some body to fix it the right way if I couldn't do it myself. Just a thought, unplug the horns but leave the fuse in, honk the horn, you should be able to hear the relay click, unless you're like me, a tad on the def side.

 

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