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Author Topic: 440 spark plugs  (Read 3076 times)

Offline jipjob

  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Year: 1982
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Warrior
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: unsure
440 spark plugs
« on: April 09, 2013, 09:48 PM »
Sent: 2/23/2004 9:20 PM
 
Well this is interesting, I went down today and got the new plugs and they are Champion. Installed with hesitation after looking at the old plugs (which have no gasket on them) I replaced them with ones that do have sealing gaskets. Now one side went in really smooth and I started up and it ran great!. So I went to the other side and do you think I could get those new plugs (Champion) to start back in the hole where I took out the old ones. No way I spent about hour reaching between the manifold and the sheetmetal that protects the inside of the engine and I could not get one of thoes little bastered to start. Now you tell me why one side would be like smooth as toast and the other the plugs from hell!
 
What kind of plugs should I have in this rig? Peanut type or the ones that have a gasket. Boy I don't know who I pissed oft but I really a little bit mad at such a small procedure. Like I said befor once I got the new plugs in (4) I started it up and it really smoothed out but what to do with the other side? Jon

Offline mightybooboo

  • *
  • Posts: 221
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: M300
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-1
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2013, 09:49 PM »
Sent: 2/23/2004 9:35 PM
 
Restarting those plugs is easy.Take a piece of fuel line about 12 inches long that will fit over the plug insulator,them just push the the plug up to the hole with it and start twisting,they will thread in pretty easily.
BooBoo

Offline jipjob

  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Year: 1982
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Warrior
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: unsure
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2013, 09:50 PM »
Sent: 2/23/2004 9:48 PM
 
Ok I will try that but what I really want to know is?  Which type of plug does these old winnies call for the one that has a gasket to seal it or the one that has a tapper on the top of the tread on plug. Or does it make difference?

Offline Lefty

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  • Posts: 551
  • Member since: 2003
  • I own: a 5th wheel
  • Year: 1998
  • Make: Star Craft
  • Model: Leisure Star RB-310
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2013, 09:50 PM »
Sent: 2/23/2004 11:06 PM
 
Take a short piece of 3/8" fuel hose and use it to extend your reach to start the plugs. Are you sure that you have the same part # as the other side? perhaps they gave you 4 of one part# and accidentally gave you another box of 4 of a different part #. I work in parts, so I know that it can happen.  Lefty
I reserve the right to reject your reality and substitute my own...

Offline jipjob

  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Year: 1982
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Warrior
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: unsure
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2013, 09:51 PM »
Sent: 2/24/2004 12:24 AM
 
No the plugs came out of the same box. I was a little concerned when I noticed that the sealing area was different and when back to the Auto store and they assured me that the new plugs would work just fine. Well it was really nice to lite oft the old engine with just the new four plugs and see the difference and also hear. I just can't wait to get the new plugs installed on the other side. Will let everyone here know how it comes out and how much skin I have left after fighting that left bank on the old 440.

Offline mightybooboo

  • *
  • Posts: 221
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: M300
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-1
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2013, 09:52 PM »
Sent: 2/24/2004 10:48 PM
 
My book shows BL-9Y plug for the 74-75  440 R-M chassis, doesnt show a pic so dont know if it has the gasket or not.  Sounds like a Lefty question to get the right answer.
BooBoo

Offline enigma960080

  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • Wilkommen um Kommiefornia!
  • Member since: 2003
  • Year: 1989
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: SuperChief
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2013, 09:52 PM »
Sent: 2/24/2004 10:55 PM
 
If its a 440-3, it  will (Should) have the  5/8 inch  gasketless taper plugs.
1989 SuperChief 31RQ

Offline Radioal1

  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Year: 1978
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2013, 09:57 PM »
Sent: 5/24/2004 7:52 AM
 
I went through the spark plug issue with my '78 440-3.  The problem is that most auto parts stores do not show the -3 as taking different plugs that a "regular" 440.  They DO as the -3 has completely different heavy duty heads.  You do need the tapered seat plugs just like in the picture.  I got mine by using the old plug number rather than the parts store computer recommendation.  I don't have the numbers in front of me right now, but the numbers posted by Enigma sound real familiar.
 
Luckily, the threads are the same so no permanent damage was done by using the wrong plugs, but the engine ran very badly because the gap was recessed nearly 1/2" into the threads of the head.
 
Al

Offline TheWoodShaver

  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2013, 09:59 PM »
Sent: 5/24/2004 9:31 PM
 
This discussion has been so good it would be a shame to stop it, but the following is from the 1978-1979 chassis manual for the M300 - M600 series chassis.

360-3 Engine - MOPAR 2444485 or Champion RF-10 18mm tapered seat, gap = .035", No gasket

440-3 Engine - MOPAR 4091938 or Champion OBL9Y 14mm tapered seat, gap = .035", no gasket

If you go to the Champion home page and search for either of the plugs shown above, you will get a reply indicating that they do not have either of the plugs requested. They do however show RF-10C as the equivalent of the RF-10 and as shown in a previous post by enigma the RV9YC is the equivalent of the original OLB9Y.

Hope this will help resolve the question,
Woodshaver

Offline Oz

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  • Posts: 2843
  • "So let it be written; so let it be done!"
  • Member since: 2002
  • I own: a Motor Home
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2013, 10:06 PM »
Sent: 6/9/2004 2:24 PM
 
I just replaced the plugs on my 440-3 with NGK Iridium IX plugs.  These are the best NGK has to offer.  They cost about $64 a set.  The part number is #7401 (UR4IX). - Sob
 
EDIT at at later date:  DO NOT spend the money for these.  After running them for a couple years, I found no difference from using the much less expesive, OEM plugs!
Previously enjoyed our '74 - D24 Indian & '74 - D24 Indian Custom

Offline 73RVDUDE

  • *
  • Posts: 23
  • Year: 1973
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2013, 10:07 PM »
Sent: 7/9/2004 5:23 PM
 
There is a removable panel on the sheet metal on that side for getting at the plugs.

Offline tcactyl

  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Chieftain
  • Chassis: dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2013, 10:10 PM »
From: tcactyl
Sent: 7/15/2006
 
I have recently replaced the plugs on my 440-3 with champion RV12-YC which one 'specialist american part supplier' here in the UK has listed as being the correct plug  ...however I believe it should be a cooler plug i.e. RV-9YC as I noted in various threads....will this do my motor any damage ?
Thierry

Offline denisondc

  • *
  • Posts: 497
  • Year: 1972
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: D23
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 413-1
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2013, 10:10 PM »
Sent: 7/15/2006 8:02 AM
 
      I would think it would be okay with either of the plugs you mention.    The hotter heat range plugs would only cause damage if detonation or 'ping' resulted.  You should be able to hear the 'pining' when driving, mostly on long upgrades at moderate speeds, where you have the gas pedal down to keep up speed - but not enough to cause a down shift.  It would be a barely noticeable high pitched irregular-but-rapid clinking sound.   If its not pinging, there wont be any harm.   These are not high-compression engines, maybe about 9 to 1.

    I like the color of my plugs to be a light beige. If they are light brown thats okay too.  If they are white, I would retard the spark a couple of degrees, and check the plug color in another 100-200 miles of use.   My 413 has a compression ration of 8.5 to 1 I think, and uses the -12-YC plugs.

    The cooler plugs would not hurt anything either.  If you have plug fouling with the cooler plugs, then your ignition is either not firing early enough, or you have bad piston rings, or the carb. is way too rich, etc.

Offline Cooneytoones

  • *
  • Posts: 137
  • Remember it always could be worse!
  • Year: 1976 Winnebago
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Custom D29
  • Chassis: M 500
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2013, 10:11 PM »
Sent: 7/16/2006 11:10 PM
 
I have a 440 just changed the plugs, Autozone and NAPA list them as R12 YC...their listing is for an MB 300 with a 440-3 engine....they were also what came out of it....

Timmy

Offline jbmhotmail

  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Member since: 2005
  • Year: 1985
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Chieftain 22
  • Chassis: Chevy P30
  • Engine: 454
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2013, 10:13 PM »
Sent: 7/17/2006 2:57 AM
 
Were all 8 plugs that you removed the same spark plug number? Try matching threads of the old ones to the new ones.
Good luck

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

  • Tech Support Specialist
  • *
  • Posts: 2742
  • Member since: 2003
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Chieftain
  • Chassis: Dodge M400
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2013, 10:14 PM »
Sent: 10/27/2006 2:01 PM
 
Additional info 440-3 plug info:
14MM; .460 reach; 5/8 hex; tapered seat; resistor type; gap = .035"
original plug: Champion BL8Y (no longer available) which is replaced by Champion RV9YC
equivalent plugs:
Autolite: 23 (Traditional), AR23 (racing), AR12 (racing), AR13 (racing)
NGK: 2623 (Traditional), 5034 (Racing), 4449 (racing)
 
Champion RV12YC will fit but I suspect it is a hotter heat range.
Platinum plugs do not appear to be recommended
Most likely best to stay with the traditional versions for MH applications.
 
Dave

Offline alterego_k

  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Executive The Diplomat II
  • Model: Diplomat II
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-1
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2013, 10:14 PM »
Refreshing an old topic to include the 440-1 spark plug requirements.  Any help ?  They are different than the 440-3, which seems to be all I can find.
Thanks!
Houston, TX

Offline alterego_k

  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Executive The Diplomat II
  • Model: Diplomat II
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-1
Re: 440-1 spark plugs
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2013, 08:14 AM »
Hello DaveBA78Chieftain. Do you have the spark plug specs for a 440-1 which is non-tapered?  Going in a '78 (dodge m400) Executive, The Diplomat II with dodge 440-1 (verified on block; head seat is visually verified as non-tapered) Thanks.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

  • Tech Support Specialist
  • *
  • Posts: 2742
  • Member since: 2003
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Chieftain
  • Chassis: Dodge M400
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2013, 10:02 AM »
Altergo_k,
I am answering here rather than private e-mail for the benifit of others.   Your M400 chassis originally came with a 440-3 so someone along the way either replaced the engine with a 440-1 or just the heads with 440-1 heads.  Given we do not know what a PO did, the first step is to determine which head casting number you have.  Unfortunantly that does require removing the valve cover.  Once you have the head casting number, you can then cross that over to year the head was actually used: http://www.mymopar.com/headcastnumb.htm



Lets say it was 3769975 (1975 400/440).  You also know that only cars used the 440-1.   Because of the emissions changes, about the only car that had a 440 in it in the mid to late 70's is a Chrysler Imperial.  So, looking on NAPA you find AC Delco R43S as the base plug for a 1975 Chrysler Imperial with a 440.  Cross ref to other brands: http://www.sparkplug-crossreference.com/convert/AC_DELCO/R43S

Specs for R-43S:
Flat shoulder with gasket
14MM threads
9.5mm reach
Gap 0.40"



R43S crosses to Champion number RJ12YC however Champion site says RJ14YC for a 75 Chrysler Imperial which is a hotter plug.  I would start with a cooler plug (i.e. RJ12YC) to help avoid pre-ignition and plug tip overheating.  If that exhibits premature fouling then move up the hotter plug (i.e RJ14YC).

Just remember this a workhorse application not a racing application.  You want cooler plugs to pull the heat away from the chamber which is why Dodge designed the 440-3 heads with "extra" cooling passages around the plugs.  Hotter plugs can also induce pinging with today's gasoline mixtures.

Dave

Offline Elandan2

  • 13 Year Member
  • *
  • Posts: 235
  • Member since: 2001
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1977
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Elandan II D27DRK
  • Chassis: Dodge M500
  • Engine: 440
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2013, 08:44 PM »
Our motorhome has a 440-1 engine.  I re-built it in 1985 with a 440 from a 1973 Chrysler Newport Custom.  I have had the best luck with NGK V-Power, XR5 plugs.  Just a standard plug, with the V-groove.  Rick
Treatzall Waste tank sanitizer, lighting, and other RV related products!
Rick Ellerbeck, 1977 Elandan II

Offline vacuumbed

  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Member since: 2010
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Fleetwood
  • Model: Pace Arrow M-A 31'
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 440 spark plugs
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2013, 08:12 PM »
I have a 1978 Pace Arrow with the 440-3. It uses the peanut plugs.

I have upgraded the ignition system with a ignition coil from a Ford Taurus, and an upgraded distributor with a post type cap. I also installed 8mm wires. This puts it in line with the HEI distributor used in GM vehicles of that era.

I then installed AC Delco R45TS spark plugs gapped at .045. This is the same gap that GM uses on this plug on HEI equipped vehicles.

This was 3 years ago. The 440 runs amazingly well. It passed emissions the first two years just fine. Last year it had trouble passing. I'm going to replace the plugs in it again before I take it to get smogged this year. I'm either going to go with the AC Delco R45TS or the Motorcraft equivalant.

 

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