Author Topic: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle  (Read 1531 times)

Offline FarPoint

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  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« on: January 19, 2020, 08:41 PM »
The Warrior is pretty much stationary until March, and I’ve got it winterized, heated, covered, and de-humidified. I do a monthly start up to operating temp as well as “exercising” the generator. Has new pugs, cap, rotor, wires, aircleaner, fuel filter, etc on the throttle body 454. And yes, a slight exhaust manifold leak (tick, tick , tick) at startup. And it starts great. Runs smooth, the fan clutch seems to be doing its thing.
After it warmed up I revved the engine a bit, and noticed that it bogged out. Curious, I pushed  the pedal to the floor (quickly) and it acted as if I was up against a rev limiter - but probably wasn’t revving any more than 2500 RPM.
Tried again but pushed the accelerator down slowly, and it would rev as far as I wanted.
And it was driving great last time on the road.
Guess I should get an OBD reader.
Any ideas about what to check while it’s in storage?
I’m good with throwing a few parts at it. Sensors?
We the Willing
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Offline Rickf1985

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Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2020, 09:10 PM »
Fuel filter or MAP sensor are the first things that come to mind but definitely don't start throwing parts at it without further diagnosis because that can greatly complicate things. I have seen a LOT of new parts right off the shelf that are bad out of the box and if you get one then you add another piece to the puzzle.Another thing that can cause this issue is a clogged exhaust, Critters can make a huge nest in the muffler and really jam things up.Have someone rev it up while you stand by the tailpipe, if it is clogged you will know it, it will sound like air being forced through a wadded up screen. Does this have OBD I or II? OBDII would be great for diagnosis.

Offline Rickf1985

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  • Model: Chieftain
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  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2020, 09:11 PM »
How long has it been sitting and how old is the gas? It could have suffered from Phase separation of the gas and that would not be good.

Offline circleD

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  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2020, 10:07 PM »
I'm with Rick as usual. Narrowing down parts instead of just replacing what you "believe" is worn out. I had many new parts that I would have to take back several times to get one that worked.
Most of my issues after getting the motor just right was the fuel. So when I knew I'd let it sit for awhile I would keep the fuel level kinda low. I know there's some issues with that. But I would add 5 gallons of fresh gas when I did my weekly cranking up of the 454 and genny. That way the fuel stayed kinda fresh.
I messed up my first year and put 60 gallons in and cranked it monthly. The gas went bad before it got low and it ran like crap. So I had to pump it out and use fresh gas to get it running good again.
I even ran the motor straight from the red gas can with some spare hose to check the issue. It was.

Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2020, 10:56 PM »
Thanks for the replys. The gas is about 3 months old - but it’s (or was!) 94 octane and ethanol free Chevron.
I did change the fuel filter. As far as the OBD- I’m not sure if it’s I or II.
I think GM changed in 1995. This is a 1996 chassis and badged as  1997 so did the mainstream changes all make it to this one. Dunno...
We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline Rickf1985

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  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2020, 09:23 AM »
96 should be OBDII but it is anyones guess where they put the OBD port. I would look next to the steering column first and then under the lip of the dash next. After that maybe under the hood probably up high facing out.

Offline FarPoint

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  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2020, 12:57 PM »
Up front, outside, and facing forward - wouldn’t surprise me.
I’ll be under the dash a bit later hunting for my reverse light wire (to auto trigger my reverse camera),so hopefully it’s there and in a clean protected environment.
I agree it’s probably OBD II, but as it’s right on the cusp of the change over - how would I recognize the difference between I & II ?


Thanks in advance.
We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

  • 16 year member
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  • Year: 1978
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  • Model: Chieftain
  • Chassis: Dodge M400
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2020, 03:23 PM »
I have a hunch it is a OBD1 system.   They delayed OBD2 entry on heavier weight classes for a few years.  Look at the ECM moules on RockAuto.com and see which picture matches yours.  Then track down what that OEM version was.
OEM version 16197427 was a OBD1 ECM.  If I recall correctly the TBI models were all OBD1 based.  OB2 started using rail fuel injection.

Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2020, 04:43 PM »
The number on the ecm is 16197427.
So- it’s an OBD I.
Makes sense that the heavier duty chassis got the updates later.


Thanks - I’m off to the auto parts store to look at readers.

Here’s a pic of the connector. Not sure why it’s sideways.
We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline Rickf1985

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  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2020, 08:32 PM »
You would need a vehicle specific OBDI reader. And you can get the same results by jumping pins in the connector and reading codes on the check engine light. OBDI really only controls the emissions side of things. If you really want to diagnose it look on Ebay for an old Snap on MT2500 scanner. It will come with adapters to hook into senders and should have somewhat of a database if you get the right cartridges.  You can also look for a MT2400 Vantage, I still use mine to this day as a DSO. You can use this to check individual sensors.
https://www.ebay.com/p/14035406014


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2322090.m570.l1313.TR4.TRC1.A0.H0.XMT2400.TRS0&_nkw=MT2400&_sacat=0

Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2020, 10:53 PM »
Thanks Rick. I went and grabbed one of those $20.00 GM cartridges that shorts out pins. Really just
Wanted the list of codes.
Thanks for the EBay links - good info there.


Rick - PM me your e mail and I’ll forward you some cool pics that shouldn’t really appear here!
We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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  • Year: 1978
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  • Model: Chieftain
  • Chassis: Dodge M400
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2020, 10:57 PM »
When I had a 92 Lumina APV van I used a Actron 9145 for OBD1 codes and sensor monitoring.  I also used a windows based software program called TunerPro however that has a learning curve which you may not be up too.  It did allow me to graph sensor data and zero in on a given area.  GM Dealers used the Tech2 OBD1 scan tool.  The Innova 3120 is one of the few scanners that reads both OBD1 and OBD2 systems.

Offline Rickf1985

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Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2020, 09:31 AM »
Thanks Rick. I went and grabbed one of those $20.00 GM cartridges that shorts out pins. Really just
Wanted the list of codes.
Thanks for the EBay links - good info there.


Rick - PM me your e mail and I’ll forward you some cool pics that shouldn’t really appear here!


PM sent

Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2020, 03:04 AM »
So - according to my mechanic buddy, that is an OBD II plug.
But according to the ECM part number - I have an OBD I sYstem.
The OBD I reader did not plug in.
How do I read this hermaphrodite system?

We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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  • Engine: 440-3
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2020, 08:24 AM »
GM did used the OBD2 style connector on some OBD1 systems. The information here should help you out.  The pin out and paperclip test is included there also.
Dave

Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2020, 09:18 AM »
Dave- Wow! Thanks. Ton of great info on that site. Looks like they can help with some of my marine projects as well.
It’s confirmed- I do have the OBDII connector, and according to numbers you gave previously as well as the Rock Auto site - an OBDI SYSTEM.
Got some reading and ordering to do....

We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline Rickf1985

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  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2020, 09:48 AM »
Be sure to check your basics. Like the vacuum lines going to the MAP sensor for cracks or swelling. I don't remember if the OBDI still used a distributor advance or not but if so check to see it is working. And like I said before change the fuel filter and make sure you have good gas. Gas will go bad in a couple months without stabilizer and 6 months with it. If the tank is not full right to the top and you live in an area with high humidity then you can easily get phase separation in the gas if you are using normal pump gas with ethanol in it. This will happen with or without stabilizers.

Offline FarPoint

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  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
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  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2020, 10:24 AM »
Rick- I’m planning to drop the tank and replace any hoses and possibly the fuel pump. There’s not too much fuel in the tank, and I do live close to the water so may have a moisture issue. The tank has 94 octane ethanol free gas in it , but I’ll pump it out before dropping the tank and and see how much crud comes out.
I recently “rescued” a couple of Honda quads from long term storage ( again - near the ocean) and they had been left with fuel in the tanks. If that mess was Phase Separation, I don’ t wannna deal with it by the side of the road! Barely managed to get the fuel tanks cleaned out - all new fuel lines of course, and it took a machinist to help get the the carbs good again.
We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline Rickf1985

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  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2020, 06:29 PM »
Phase separation, the alcohol has separated from the gasoline.









Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2020, 05:33 PM »
OK- so far, so good. All the other garden equipment, quads, motorcycle, and outboard engines, that were put away with 94 Chevron are working well. Just spent the last 2 days firing everything up, and checking/ draining fuel. ( and a bit of roaring around!)
What I’ve drained out so far looks great. But I’m sure it’s down on overall goodness.
Winnebago gets drained next.
We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline TerryH

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Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2020, 06:39 PM »
I always use Chevron Supreme in my generator and pressure washer. Supposedly it is ethanol free, and about the only locally available fuel that is.
 
***GREAT photos, Rick!
“Who is more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him?”
Obi Wan Kenobi, Star Wars, but very current.

Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2020, 12:23 PM »
Scary pictures Rick!
I’m now fully committed to dropping the tank as soon as I can.
The rain stopped for a bit yesterday so I crawled under and had a look.
I guess the tank was put in from above prior to the house going on. All the hose clamps are oriented with the screw heads facing up to the floor.
Looks like the hoses are OK- but I’m going to replace them all anyway.(after I hack my way through the inaccessible hose clamps) the fuel fill hose looks like it’s same size both ends, (did I read somewhere that some are different sized?) so that should be easy.
I took a 1/2” NC die nut and cleaned up the exposed threads on the mounting straps and shot a bunch of Aero Kroil at the nuts. I’ll do that a few more times before I try to loosen the mounts. As long as I can get the nut moving initially, the remaining 3” of thread shouldn’t seize.
I think I’ll also look at doing a bolt in reinforcing plate to strengthen the frame extension while I’m down there.

We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline Rickf1985

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  • Model: Chieftain
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2020, 04:08 PM »
Good idea on the reinforcing plates, Be sure to extend them as far as reasonably possible so you can get at least four bolts in each side of the weld. With a 27 footer I wouldn't think there is too much extra frame added is there?  Did you see my thread on the easy way to drop the tank?


http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=13311.0

Offline FarPoint

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  • Posts: 47
  • I’m so far behind, I thought I was out in front
  • Member since: 2020
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1997
  • Make: Winnebego
  • Model: Warrior 25RU
  • Chassis: Chevy
  • Engine: 454
Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2020, 08:59 PM »
The photo may post sideways ( can’t seem to figure that out yet)
The frame extensions are 26” long, but it’s gonna be complicated to add reinforcement. The spare tire carrier is a piece of channel that spans the frame rails - right at the joint.
There’s already a small reinforcing plate ( rusty in pic ) welded to outside of frame rail, so maybe grind that off and add something substantial.
There are only two holes on the flange of the gas tank - and I’m not drilling any more!!
So I’m going to modify Ricks idea to lower the tank. I’ll use the two existing holes on diagonal corners with the redi- rod and a ratchet strap on the other diagonal.
It’s kinda what I had to do to lower the 100 lb spare tire without dropping it on myself once the retainer nut hit the end of the threads!


Yup - turn your screen 90 degrees clockwise to view correctly.
How do I prevent the sideways picture postings?

We the Willing
Led by the Unknowing
Paid by the Uncaring
Have been doing so much
With so little, for so long
That we are now qualified
To do anything- with nothing at all.

Offline wae

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Re: Monthly warm up. 1997 Warrior. 454 bogs with throttle
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2020, 08:44 AM »
I think the ideal way to reinforce the extension is to install C-channel inside the existing rail, but it does look like that would be awfully difficult in your instance.  One alternative would be to bolt some C-channel to the bottom of the frame and the extension, but that doesn't really thrill me.  Your best-case without removing the spare-tire apparatus might be to use angle and bolt it to the bottom and side of the frame.  There might be a way to leverage the existing structure of the spare tire carrier as well, especially if you would carry the spare somewhere else.

 

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