Dual wheel inflator extensions

M & J · April 17, 2016, 02:29 PM

Long story short, I had a flat on the inside dual from over winter. When I put on simulators 2 years ago, I put extensions on the inside wheel. I find no leaks at all with that tire so leaning toward a leaking extension.
Before I put the wheels back on the coach I need to find another extension or I can't use the simulators. What is most using out there? I found these an Amazon. Thinking about them. Go ahead Rick, rip holes in them.

http://www.amazon.com/Crossfire-Dual-Pressure-Equalization-CF100STABT/dp/B0003040ZS/ref=sr_1_20?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1460912340&sr=1-20&keywords=tire+valve+stem+extensions

Rickf1985 · April 17, 2016, 06:33 PM

I have thought about those myself since they maintain both tires at the same pressure. Supposedly they will shut off if you have a rapid loss of air in one tire so you do not get two flats. The last big rig I drove had them all around along with an alarm system. My question would be if you have a slow leak and do not have a TPMS will both tires go down?

M & J · April 17, 2016, 06:58 PM

Slow leak probably. But with a gauge visible a walk by to check would show I thought.

Rickf1985 · April 17, 2016, 07:03 PM

The ones on the truck I was driving had cats eyes and you saw with a glance they were right. Been a while and don't remember the brand but do a search for Cat's eyes tire management. Might find something. I will look when I decompress from the city trip.

Rickf1985 · April 17, 2016, 07:23 PM

http://www.stengelbros.com/LinkCatEyes.htm

EldoradoBill · April 17, 2016, 07:28 PM

That type inevitably leaks. I never had luck with the braided type line. Your best bet is a valve stem extension on the inner tire and stagger the inner and outer tires so the valve stems are 180 degrees from each other, this keeps the two tires isolated but you need to check pressure independently.

Bill

M & J · April 17, 2016, 09:26 PM

I don't know Bill. The high end flex brake lines are plastic coated stainless steel. The extensions I had came from NAPA and we're rubber lines. The other side is fine. I'm taking the wheel and tire to a shop where they can immerse it all to check for a leak.

bluebird · April 17, 2016, 11:39 PM

I had the braided type on my Challenger for 7 years and never had a problem with them. I just bought the same kind from camping world for the Daybreak, and put them on in Dec. when I replaced the tires. No leaks so far. There is different grades of them though, don't believe I'd go with real cheap ones. I also wouldn't buy ones that were hooked together. Don't need 2 flat tires.

Rickf1985 · April 18, 2016, 08:54 AM

The Cat's eyes will not allow both tires to go flat. They monitor the two tires and that is whet the cats eye is all about, it opens up if a tire is going down. If it continues to go down the valve shuts that tire off from the other one. The DOT would not allow them on OTR trucks if that could happen. That is why they are more money than the E-bay ones.

M & J · April 18, 2016, 10:30 AM

I looked at both company's web sites. They both perform similarly. In case of a blow out or rapid loss of air from either tire, the system closes off that tire. Also, on the Amazon one, it closes off a tire if the loss exceeds more than 10 lbs from it's rated PSI. That's why with both setups, you have to specify the PSI you run so it's calibrated to detect even a slow leak and close preventing loss of air in both tires in case one develops a slow leak.
The thing I'm thinking about now is the Cats Eye states they do not work with simulators (the Amazon ones don't state either way) and with both users have complaints of throwing the balance off enough to having to remove them.
I dropped the tire off at a medium duty truck tire shop to see if they can find where the one has leaked. I left the extension attached.

M & J · April 18, 2016, 02:08 PM

Truck tire shop called and they found a very very slow leak in the valve stem. Replaced and all good. No problem at all with the rubber extensions i am using. I can hold off on making a decision about these devices for a while. I do like the idea of a convenient one location equal filling connection and a visual indication of of tire going low though. Have to do further research on the use and balance with simulators.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Rickf1985 · April 18, 2016, 02:09 PM

I see you already found out that the ones you looked at are similar to the Cats eyes. The problem is mounting them with the simulators.

bluebird · April 18, 2016, 03:32 PM

I drilled holes and used SS pop rivets to hold the brackets on mine on the center piece. I also used beads when mounting the tires. I talked with my buddy this morning, we mounted our tires the same way. He had a vibration at 55 to 65 mph before, it is gone now. He did say he thought his coach rode a little stiffer, but we used 85 lbs air in the tires and went to a 3970 tire compared to 65 lbs and a 3640 tire. He did say it handles much better now. I still haven't had my coach out yet. Still have some work to do, but got the new shocks on the front yesterday. Was going to do the rears today but got lazy.

Rickf1985 · April 18, 2016, 06:55 PM

At least you did the hard ones first.

Rickf1985 · April 19, 2016, 10:11 AM

Mike, I was watching you guys talking a TECHNICAL subjects in the gear box and saw the discussion about riveting the fill valve to the center hub. Not a good idea. Remember, with the fill extensions you have now it is just a little nut and the extension comes off the clip on the hub and the the simulator can come off. The extensions hold air. On this setup the whole thing i a unit and is not supposed to be taken apart so if you have simulators there is going to be air loss when taking the simulators off. I don't know about you but I cannot get my hand through the hole in the simulator, it would have to came lose and then somehow reach behind it to disconnect the air line unless they do in fact hold air at both ends. Something else to look into. I may call them about that when I get a chance. As far as the riveting goes I would run a bolt through the center hub in a position which places the valve dead center of the hub. Run the bolt through from the inside with a nut on the outside and red locktite and a lock washer. This will be a permanent mounting point. The you can mount the valve on that instead of an axle bolt and use another nut and lock washer on that. Now it is centered to alleviate the balance concerns and it is also removable as originally designed. The only concern at this point are the air lines and removing the simulator, will have to call manufacturer on that one.

bluebird · April 19, 2016, 10:28 AM

My extensions came with 2 different sets of brackets. One set if you have simulators and mine are installed according to instructions, with the provided SS pop rivets.. There is NO air leakage when removing the simulators as you just remove the outside nut before you take them off. How many times are you going to remove them anyways? The only time I've ever had mine off is to replace the tires.

Rickf1985 · April 19, 2016, 10:54 AM

We are talking about the Cats eyes type that tie the inner and outer together.

Rickf1985 · April 19, 2016, 11:00 AM

Here is something to think about.

Case Study by Bridgestone:

When the inside tire has a mere 5 psi less than the outer tire:

Findings:

1. The diameter of the inner tire is 5/16'' less than the outer tire.

2. With a 5/16'' difference in diameters, the outer tire will cause the inner tire to drag 13' per mile.

3. In just 35,000 miles, the tread of the smaller tire will have been scuffed off for 86 miles.

4. The added resistance makes BOTH tires wear faster. If the pressure difference is greater, so is the damage. The easiest way to insure that both tires are equal size, is to equalize the pressure.

Tire manufacturers estimate a loss of $177 per year due to treadwear and fuel costs for each tire running 30% underinflated.

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And here is the link to the web site, I suggest you read the whole article since it address's some of the issues you mentioned before, also that I had mentioned.

http://www.stengelbros.com/LinkCatEyes.htm

M & J · April 19, 2016, 12:01 PM

Sidebar chat Rick in Gear Box, sorry you weren't on to join us.
But yes, the advantages of these units are well known and documented. I have read the information on the Cats Eye at Stengle's. The Crossfire unit also has an exceptional video on their web page tailored to the trucking industry with similar information. I like the idea of them - also stated in my thread however the use with simulators requires more research. Some of the feedback posted said they engineered a way to mount them. I would like to have one in hand to look at mounting options before dropping up to $150 on a set.

Rickf1985 · April 19, 2016, 06:13 PM

And that is before the TPMS monitor.

tarifachris · October 15, 2017, 10:52 PM

I have the Crossfire dual extensions since April 2017... Since then I drove 3000 miles, and until now I like them...

I have the 90 PSI Crossfires - after 300 miles driving they show 95 to 100 PSI! The tires are just warm... Next morning they are back to 90 PSI.
I did put a tube over the braided line from the inner tire to the outer tire, since there is a lot of flying debris between
the dually's,

Rickf1985 · October 16, 2017, 10:50 AM

90 PSI is kind of high isn't it? Especially with a tag. I ran that in mine once and I could feel every single crack in the road. I run 75 now and it is a good compromise between ride and tire heat.

boohoo222 · October 16, 2017, 11:48 AM

Quote from: tarifachris on October 15, 2017, 10:52 PM
I have the Crossfire dual extensions since April 2017... Since then I drove 3000 miles, and until now I like them...

I have the 90 PSI Crossfires - after 300 miles driving they show 95 to 100 PSI! The tires are just warm... Next morning they are back to 90 PSI.
I did put a tube over the braided line from the inner tire to the outer tire, since there is a lot of flying debris between
the dually's,

I'm confused, I thought "duallys" were 2 tires side by side, my hr has 3 axils but only 1 tire per side per axil i??

tarifachris · October 16, 2017, 01:22 PM

Quote from: boohoo222 on October 16, 2017, 11:48 AM
I'm confused, I thought "duallys" were 2 tires side by side, my hr has 3 axils but only 1 tire per side per axil i??

I never saw a setup like yours!

My Holiday Rambler is 35 foot and has a GVWR of 16500. Dually's on the drive axle single on the tag axle...

tarifachris · October 16, 2017, 01:30 PM

Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 16, 2017, 10:50 AM
90 PSI is kind of high isn't it? Especially with a tag. I ran that in mine once and I could feel every single crack in the road. I run 75 now and it is a good compromise between ride and tire heat.

I tried to run 75 but the tires are getting hot and it feels wrong ... I run on the rears all 90PSI and on the front 85PSI...

Empty my rig is already 14300 pounds - GVWR 16500!