Classic Winnebagos & Vintage RVs

Topic Boards => Chevy - GMC Chassis => Topic started by: PA85 on August 06, 2013, 07:03 PM

Title: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 06, 2013, 07:03 PM
Ok guys this is my first post, so don't be to hard on me. Well i have a 1985 Pace Arrow 27' with a 454. My question for you all is, if i have no electric fuel pump in the tank or on the frame rail where else could it be? i have never heard a humming sound nor can i find any wires. I dont think it has one but it is a 1985 according to vin. From what i have been reading i thought it would be in the tank since i cannot find it on the frame. I have dropped the tank and it has only a sending unit. Thanks.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: nalambright on August 06, 2013, 07:07 PM
Are you sure it doesn't use a mechanical pump mounted on the engine?
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric)
Post by: PA85 on August 06, 2013, 07:10 PM
Yes it has a mechanical on the engine. It is not pumping to the carb. So i started reading and found out about the electric one that i cannot find.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric)
Post by: nalambright on August 06, 2013, 08:28 PM
I think they usually use either mechanical or electric. An electric pumping into a mechanical can blow the diaphragm and fill your crankcase with gas.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: pvoth1111 on August 06, 2013, 08:36 PM
Electric one most likely in the tank.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 06, 2013, 08:55 PM
I have dropped the tank and it only has a sending unit.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: bluebird on August 06, 2013, 09:14 PM
Maybe before the pump was added to the tank. My 80 Itasca had no pump in the tank, and it ran just fine. It was a 26 fter.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: GONMAD on August 06, 2013, 09:40 PM
Hey guy's I just performed an electric pump & regulator install, I still use the mechanical as well. Look in my pics on how. C YA! GONMAD
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 06, 2013, 09:58 PM
As indicated in the Chevy MH Service Guide (available here in the free manuals section), Chevy did not start installing an electric fuel pump and frame rail regulator until 1985 1/2.  That was an in tank version.  They used a 1/2" fuel line.  The electric pump was used to push the fuel up to the mechanical pump on the engine.  The regulator insured the pressure was low enough to not damage the mechanical pump.  The mechanical pump was retained until 1990 when they converted to a TBI system which only uses a electric pump.

Chevy did a study that resulted in the 1985 1/2 change.  They also put together  recommendations on how to add an external pump and regulator for pre 1985 1/2 rigs.  All of this information and how to data is contained in Appendix 7-7 of the Chevy MH Service Guide.

Dave
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 06, 2013, 10:34 PM
Thanks guys. I guess i have a 85 instead of an 85 1/2. So do you guys suggest going with a in tank or frame mount electric pump?
Or just run it with a new mechanical on motor?
I really did not like dropping this 60 gallon tank.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 06, 2013, 10:44 PM
Frame mounted pump should be fine.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: MotorPro on August 07, 2013, 07:33 AM
Just replace the mechanical pump. If you find you have a vapor lock problem on hot days (the reason they added an electric pump) you can then add a frame mount pump. If you do put it as close to the tank as possible.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: legomybago on August 07, 2013, 10:27 AM
The inlaws have an 1986 Komfort 27' P30 thats been vapor locking this summer...it's been really hot here!! So I picked up a 6# Carter inline pump and will be placing it in back close to the tank. This rig did not come with an electric unit from the factory....I've had the fuel tank dropped, and replaced all rubber lines, and it has a new mechanical pump. My question would be......Is it better to run power from ignition switch for AO...Or toggle on dash and use when needed?? ???  I prefer when needed, but inlaw wants always on...?
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Froggy1936 on August 07, 2013, 11:39 AM
Hmm an 86 P30 should already have an electric pump in the tank ? But either way use a relay the frame mount pump pulls a lot of amps Frank
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: legomybago on August 07, 2013, 02:13 PM
Nope..had the sending unit in my hand...60 gallon tank on the ground
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 07, 2013, 02:52 PM
My pace arrow is the same way (sending unit only). Well i know it is hot here in Arizona, I am sweating as I type. So I will look at the Carter inline also.     My question would be......Is it better to run power from ignition switch for AO...Or toggle on dash and use when needed?? (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/Smileys/default/huh.gif)  I prefer when needed, but inlaw wants always on...?         I am wondering about this to.                       
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: MotorPro on August 07, 2013, 03:18 PM
I always run from the key but also add an inline switch incase I want to turn it off. Also make sure to add a fuse. If you really want it right you can add an oil pressure cut off switch.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: GONMAD on August 07, 2013, 04:24 PM
Hey  guy's    Make SURE you use a pump with no less than a 3/8"line & pipe fittings. If you don't you WILL have a starvation problem under way. the 1/8" pumps do not flow enough VOLUME th supply a big block at speed. I just upgraded to a Holley GPH 110 with regulator set at 6 lbs. From the rear (see my pics) Sometimes called a "lift pump". We run dual fuel supplies for a backup. Plenty of room above the right rear too. I used old shock absorber rubber bushings for isolastic type mounting to eliminate noise transfer to the frame
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: bluebird on August 07, 2013, 06:25 PM
You need to run it off a relay that is run by the key switch. There are terminals on the fuse block that are hot only when the key is switched on, just make sure you install a in line fuse, and large enough wire,  if you decide to go this way.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 07, 2013, 06:54 PM
I recommend you install it in accordance with procedure recommended in the Chevy MH Service Guide (available here in the free manuals section).  That way you know you are not missing anything AND it is a safe installation.

Dave
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: cncsparky on August 07, 2013, 07:08 PM
Quote from: PA85 on August 07, 2013, 02:52 PM
My pace arrow is the same way (sending unit only). Well i know it is hot here in Arizona, I am sweating as I type. So I will look at the Carter inline also.     My question would be......Is it better to run power from ignition switch for AO...Or toggle on dash and use when needed?? (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/Smileys/default/huh.gif)  I prefer when needed, but inlaw wants always on...?         I am wondering about this to.                       

I would be concerned with the mechanical pump trying to pull fuel through an electric that wasn't on.  Could make a vapor locking issue worse. 
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: HandyDan on August 07, 2013, 07:58 PM
My mechanical will not pull gas through the electric.  There was a picture on here somewhere that shows a by-pass for the electric when not in use.  I'll see if I can find it unless someone comes up with it first. 
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 07, 2013, 08:01 PM
QuoteI would be concerned with the mechanical pump trying to pull fuel through an electric that wasn't on.  Could make a vapor locking issue worse.

I suppose that's why the GM design has a anti-siphon check valve built into it.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: HandyDan on August 07, 2013, 08:06 PM
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,5817.0.html (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,5817.0.html)

Try this thread.  It has the picture I was thinkin about.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Froggy1936 on August 07, 2013, 10:02 PM
Since i installed the fuel injection I have the elec holly and the check valve for sale Send me a pm if interested  Frank P.S. the original prices are in the referred to post
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Oz on August 07, 2013, 11:36 PM
I have a question...

In all this discussion about electric fuel pumps... did he ever find his fuel pump?  Was it positively determined he only has a mechanical one? 

I think there was a question about that somewhere here and I was wondering if he ever figured it out.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 07, 2013, 11:55 PM
Never found a electric pump. My rv is a early 85, so no electric. But I am thankful for all the knowledge I am getting from all the members. Thanks everyone.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Oz on August 07, 2013, 11:58 PM
Got it.  Good stuff, yes?  There are additional topics on the board about adding electric pumps as well with even more info.

:)   :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 08, 2013, 12:46 AM
Yes I have read alot of the post.
now I just need to know which is the best pump to go with.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Jupp318 on August 19, 2013, 01:09 PM
By any chance do you have any pictures of your fuel tank out of the chassis?.  I have recently bought an '85 Chieftain 27 RU which uses the P30 Chassis and it has started leaking fuel from the tank area.  I currently have the fuel filler pipe off the vehicle and have found the vent hose has badly perished.  I'm not certain that the vent pipe is my problem as I may have damaged it when removing it.  Should the filler cap be vented as I would like to put a low air pressure into the tank to see if I still have a problem once I have replaced the filler hoses.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 19, 2013, 01:18 PM
If you have an in-tank pump it should look like this: http://www.gmpartseast.com/chevy/components/1985-p30_fuel-tank-mounting-sender-unit-tp032840103-l19m40p31132.html (http://www.gmpartseast.com/chevy/components/1985-p30_fuel-tank-mounting-sender-unit-tp032840103-l19m40p31132.html)

If you do not have an in-tank pump then this: http://www.gmpartseast.com/chevy/components/1985-p30_fuel-tank-mounting-sender-unit-tp032850103-l19m40p31132.html (http://www.gmpartseast.com/chevy/components/1985-p30_fuel-tank-mounting-sender-unit-tp032850103-l19m40p31132.html)

Dave
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Jupp318 on August 19, 2013, 06:46 PM
Is there any relevance of the picture of the fuel tank as I know mine is smooth rather than ribbed, although I do have 3 straps holding the tank in place.  If you were taking your tank out what would be the order of play?.  Would you undo the drivers side nuts on the straps first?  How do you get your Winnie high enough to remove the tank?, Are you in danger of breaking the fuel lines when you drop the tank (something I have never done before).  What do I need to watch out for?. Also can I tell from the VIN if indeed I have an electric pump at all?

Sorry for all the questions but having read down links and other posts I am now convinced that the hose between the pump and regulator has split.  Luckily my Winnie has been converted to run LPG so I have duel fuel, although I cannot run the generator until I have the Petrol tank fixed.

It's good to be back  :)

Cheers Ian....

BTW should I change my Id to Jupp454 now I have sold the old '74 D19?.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 19, 2013, 08:10 PM
Because they had to order the chassis' early, it was not uncommon for Winnebago to install this years coach (ie 1985) on the previous years chassis (ie 1984).  So, locate the Chevy VIN number and see it the sixth digit (year) is a 4 or 5.

Reffering to 77-94 Chevy MH Chassis Service manual (Appendix 7-7): http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?s1rz7gx9palbdlc (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?s1rz7gx9palbdlc)

1984 and first half of 1985 chassis model did not have an electric fuel pump
Electric fuel pump started in last half of 1985 chassis run as an aid to help overcome VApor Lock issues.

I would try lower tank level using some sort of a jack setup.  Hose connections should provide some flexability.

Dave
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: HandyDan on August 19, 2013, 10:54 PM
You will need to detach the filler hose from the gas tank or from the filler.  There is a good chance the rubber is getting brittle and cracked.  If that is the case, you could just cut it and put in a new one. 

Dan

Edit:  I should have read all the posts.  I see you already have the filler detached.  Please disregard.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Oz on August 19, 2013, 11:06 PM
Ian, you cease to amaze me.  I start to wonder if you're still out there, buzzing about the UK in your Winnie and next thing you know... along comes the RAF and drops you right in the middle of things!

:)
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Jupp318 on August 20, 2013, 10:16 AM
Well there you go Mark, I'm still here but with a different rig. On that subject once again I'm beginning to pull my hair out.  My VIN is 1GBJP37WCF3317347.  I cannot tell if I should have an in-tank electric pump.  I cannot see a pressure regulator on the passenger-side frame rail.  The fuel tank is smooth and I believe holds 60 Gals.  I cannot hear any noise with the ignition switched on and engine NOT running. I now have no petrol in the tank, but before the leak the generator would run OK.

The original problem was Petrol pouring out at the back of the rig, apparently running off the top of the tank.  Engine was running on LPG at the time. If there isn't an electric pump what could the problem be?

Cheers Ian...
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: legomybago on August 20, 2013, 10:36 AM
Its at the age where you definetly need to replace the rubber fuel lines on top of the fuel tank. Back the duels up on some blocks....use a floor jack with some big blocks...lower the tank a foot...then maybe you can reach up in there and replace the lines (I had alot of room with mine anyway..1986 P30). If you only have 1 wire running down to your sending unit, it should just be a standard sending unit..no pump....thats my guess ???
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 20, 2013, 07:54 PM
1GBJP37WCF3317347

1GB = USA, Chevrolet
J = 10000-14000 GVW
P = Forward Control Chassis
3 = 1 ton
7 = Motor Home
W = 454 4BBL LE8
C = Check Digit
F = Year 1985
3 = Assembly Plant - Chevy Detroit
317347 = serial #

Chevy also used a Regular Production Option (RPO) sticker that contains option codes of other chassis features that were installed.  Should also be posted somewhere in the drivers area.

Dave
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: bluebird on August 20, 2013, 09:32 PM
Your coach has a return fuel line from the mechanical pump. It will be pumping fuel even if you're running on propane. My 80 Itasca was a duel fuel coach when I bought it. It should have two solenoids, one should be near the top of the engine, the gas one, the propane one on my coach was right by the vaporizer. If the return line rubber is rotten so are the rest. I used 2 floor jacks to remove my tank, with the coach up on blocks. I did a lot of welding on my frame while I had the tank out because I was pulling a trailer with a race car on it. I used 2 jacks because I had them, and want to take the tank out from under to do my welding job,but one could probably do it with one.   
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 21, 2013, 07:20 PM
I will send you a pic when I get home. I believe we have the same tank, no pump inside.
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Froggy1936 on August 21, 2013, 09:03 PM
You can remove tank with 1 jack The only problem is if the tank is not completly empty The sloshing fuel will make it extremly hard to handle (voice of experience) Actually an empty tank could be handeled with out a jack if veh is high enough to get yourself under the tank !  My 50 gal tank weighs approx 35 lb ,s  Frank
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: HandyDan on August 21, 2013, 09:30 PM
I learned the hard way about the gasoline (petrol) solenoid on the dual fuel system.  It has to have power to it to keep it open.  If, for some reason, the power line breaks, melts on the exhaust, shorts, etc. the engine will not run unless you switch to LP. 
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 21, 2013, 10:36 PM
Is this what you are looking for?
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 21, 2013, 10:41 PM
more
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Jupp318 on August 22, 2013, 05:25 AM
Fabulous information guys, all I need now are the sizes of hose I need to do the job.  I might be able to have some time on a 4 post ramp, so I will need everything ready in advance.  I have the Filler side sorted so it will be the hoses on top of the Tank I will need to replace.  Also are there any in the frame rails I need to replace?.

Once again, Thanks a lot!!

Cheers Ian...
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: PA85 on August 23, 2013, 10:34 AM
gen.-5/16"=6ft
pump outlet-1/2"=8ft
return lines-1/4" & 5/16=8ft
over flow-5/8"=5ft

this is what I bought but have not installed yet. I do have metal tubing outside of rail and inside frame rail.
-outside of frame rail is 1/2" metal tubing(main line to fuel pump) with a couple sections with 1-1/2ft of rubber hose
-inside frame rail has 2 metal tubing that are 1/4" and 5/16" with also sections with 6"-1ft rubber hose

hope this helps but double check yours just in case.   
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Jupp318 on September 04, 2013, 03:20 PM
Well I have removed my tank.  I took some photo's along the way, here is the most telling one.  I have measured the metal pipes coming out of the tank and they are 8mm (5/16") for 3 of them and one at 9.5mm which is smaller that 3/8" which worries me a little.  Only one pipe is flared in order to keep the hose well sealed and that is the one that isn't on the fuel gauge sender unit.  I am going to paint the tank before it goes back to try and stop further corrosion.

Cheers Ian...
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Stripe on September 04, 2013, 03:32 PM
Woof..

I dunno what's more of a nightmare, driving on the M25 or having to deal with that mess you have there...
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on September 04, 2013, 04:11 PM
Does the information on this page help Ian?
http://www.gmpartseast.com/chevy/components/1985-p30_fuel-tank-mounting-sender-unit-tp032850103-l19m40p31832.html (http://www.gmpartseast.com/chevy/components/1985-p30_fuel-tank-mounting-sender-unit-tp032850103-l19m40p31832.html)

(http://www.gmpartseast.com/diagrams/small/52P/fuel-tank-mounting-sender-unit-tp0328501.png)
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: legomybago on September 04, 2013, 04:33 PM
That looks yummy....It's a good feeling knowing those hoses will be new when your cruising down the road later on.....
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: Jupp318 on September 05, 2013, 05:43 AM
Thanks Dave,
I was being a bit dense. 1/16" Interference fit gives me 1/4" & 5/16" hoses coming off the top of the tank, with as you say 5/8" for the Vent & 1 3/4" for the filler hose.  The 1 3/4" is becoming difficult to get over here as it would seem that the manufacturers are making 1 1/2" & 2".  I don't know how long the P30 Chassis was made for but I think it would be wise for anyone who hasn't replaced these hoses yet to consider getting them replaced over the winter.  I was lucky in that I had LPG to fall back on.  When it started leaking I switched over to Petrol & put my foot down to burn what was left in the tank as quickly as possible (which didn't take long!!!).
Title: Re: 1985 p30 fuel pump (electric) where is it?
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on September 05, 2013, 09:42 AM
Chevy produced the P30 chassis from 1974 to 1999 so that is a lot of P30's!  :)   Workhorse purchased the P30 line and continued the P30 for a couple of years beyond that until they started the W20/W22 series.  Sadly, Workhorse (now owned by Navistar) dropped producing a gas chassis a couple of years ago when GM stopped producing the 8.1L truck engine.  For new RV's, the Ford F-53 is about the only Class A gas chassis left in the market.

Dave