Sent: 12/5/2001 1:42 PM
I have now lived full time in my 1978 Winnebago Brave 26 footer for over a year. But, climate in San Diego is one thing, living full time in this rig in say, Idaho, which is an idea of mine, where there are real winters is a whle different story.
What I am looking for, please, is guidance on exactly what I should do to prepare my rig for full timer living in a winter environment. For example, I think I'll probably have to do something with the piping underneath to protect from freezing. Maybe I'll need to replace the water heater and/or furnace with units that are heavier duty and pump out more btu's (heat). Etc.
I welcome, and in fact need you collective guidance on this topic, and look forward to the replies.
Thank you and God bless all of you, Jeff in San Diego
Sent: 12/5/2001 4:27 PM
Jeff, if you are staying at a place with hook-ups you certainly want to use a 1500 Watt space heater. My experience is to use the main furnace to get the temperature up to 70 and then the electric heater will keep it there. Water heating was no problem. I also used heat tape and pipe insulation on the water hoses leading in. In very cold weather I left the water trickling a little but this is risky if your drain freezes up.
One question: I am in Washington State watching the rain and dreaming of San Diego. Why think of leaving such a place! Spend the summers in Idaho.
Jim F.
Sent: 12/12/2001 12:02 PM
You will need to put some type of skirting around the entire perimeter of the rv in order to make a semi-insulated dead air space underneath. And I also recommend using the heated wire wrap on your pipes. Good luck. Mean Jean
Wow, I didnt know they made LED's to replace fluorescent tubes, can you tell me exactly how you wired those together and how you wired them to the fixture.
http://store.marinebeam.com/led-fluorescent.html
The ones he used look to be smaller than his fixtures so he custom wired them in.
Dave
I am wanting to escape Southern Cali and winter has been a serious concern of mine as well. I have lived in snow states in the past so some of the basic that go with winterizing homes and vehicles is the same for RVs. However, I have concerns to snow weight on the units roof and thought that when I make my move to a state that snows I would do so in the spring so I can build a rv cover to handle the snow... I am curious as to how to keep ice from forming on walls of my 76 Minnie and not rated for those extreme cold temps.
Quote from: moonlitcoyote on July 02, 2013, 08:50 PM
Wow, I didnt know they made LED's to replace fluorescent tubes, can you tell me exactly how you wired those together and how you wired them to the fixture.
Snipped power leads off bad ballast used 2 wire nuts to attach LED positive/negative pigtails to old wiring in parallel.. Used short section of 1/2" PVC pipe hot glued to back of LED light tube and Thin Light housing to make up for depth of fixture bringing LED's close to cover..
"12V 24V SMD LED Light Tube Bar PURE WHITE FULL ALUMINUM GLASS BODY MARINE RV" from eBay Seller; horizon_two $131.25 abt 2 years ago they still sell them... bought a lot of 12 each bright white and cool white.. cost < $14 each if you wait for price to be discounted, $175 when not on sale.. I use 3 for each fixture and combine the color temps (http://i1189.photobucket.com/albums/z426/SoakedKarma/MH/FL_LED5.jpg) which seem to glare less than all Bright White imo..
After paying $43+ for replacement 30 watt ballasts for 3 of my 11 lights, upgrade was in order when new one failed in less than 2 years.. I see the price has dropped by 50% for the Ballasts (http://www.solar-electric.com/tl-ib-716.html) my fixtures require.. The lessor power drain of LED makes it a no-brainer imho...
Quote from: serenitygirl64 on July 03, 2013, 11:04 AM
I am wanting to escape Southern Cali and winter has been a serious concern of mine as well. I have lived in snow states in the past so some of the basic that go with winterizing homes and vehicles is the same for RVs. However, I have concerns to snow weight on the units roof and thought that when I make my move to a state that snows I would do so in the spring so I can build a rv cover to handle the snow... I am curious as to how to keep ice from forming on walls of my 76 Minnie and not rated for those extreme cold temps.
I have seen roofs caved in from snow weight stored in the Sierra's and North East.. You don't indicate if you will be living full time or storing.. As a full timer I have climbed up on the roof using a push broom to clear snow.. My rig has a very strong 1/3" thick single piece fiberglass 38' roof cap with no seams tube steel rafters and wall framework.. Unless buildup is more than 12" thick I don't do anything as the snow provides extra insulation.. I clear snow from around drain vents on roof.. My Shower P trap extends below bottom of coach and freezes so I keep a small jar of Ice melt to keep it clear, about the only place I don't have heat tape applied.. I don't get ice buildup on outside walls but do get icicles off the skirt where the roof drains.. With HWH coach jacks I tilt ever so slightly to the sunny side of coach so drainage is mostly on warm side.. I do remove snow buildup from bumpers as design leads to bumper mount rusting from buildup..
This thread is old but still relevant, so I'll add my 2 cents. I'm new to full-time RV living but not to winter weather, and we get too much of it here! :'( So my focus was to minimize or eliminate cold air flow.
First I used 2" foamboard with a silver backing to block off overhead vents during winter months, insulate those outside doors to the underseat compartments, and insulate the odd compartment under the head of the bed.
Then I put a skirting around the bottom (long pieces of lumberwrap plastic sandwiched around 6" insulation batts, screwed to wooden uprights at the corners and to the bottom of the house right below the outer siding). There will be slight air gaps but this eliminates the worst effects of wind, blowing snow and most of the 4-legged pests. The lumberwrap was free, and best of all it was tan just like my trailer!
Next project will be to put a layer of felt "denim insulation" between window and storm pane on the windows that face windward. These windows won't be opened nor do they have a view. I'll make window quilts for the windows which need to open for ventilation and light, as they won't have storm panes to warm them up. These storm panes are the kind which attach to the inside and prevent the louvers from opening once they're in place.
This trailer already has a water hose with thermostatically-controlled heater, and I added a 125 gallon propane tank so the furnace can bear the brunt of the heating (power cost would be prohibitive to run an electric heater steadily, plus I don't trust them for safety reasons).
Other precautions include letting water trickle on subzero nights and possibly constructing some kind of dead air space around the sewer pipe so it doesn't freeze if we get to -30 like last winter! I also try to open a window for at least a short while each day to reduce condensation, but a dehumidifier would be a good idea too.
Snow buildup usually isn't a problem here, if we get a deep snow it's likely to be dry and fluffy so no weight to worry about. But if there is an unusually wet heavy snowfall I'd try to get as much off the roof as possible without injuring either myself or the roof! ???
Very good stuff in this topic!
QuoteThis thread is old but still relevant,...
I read a post on another forum by an ex-member who had a very negative attitude about a few aspects of CWVRV. One of the things they said was that all the threads were old. My reply was exactly as quoted above. Still relevant. As far as I can tell, these old RVs haven't "evolved" into new technology on their own so, the vast majority of what was applicable 20 years ago is still applicable today. There may just be some new technology or items or methods which are newer which can help us with our options.
That's why it is also good that some of these older topics are being "recycled". It allows the new things to be added to the old things, giving everyone a broader wealth of information and options to consider.
Hmm. As this is a Classic site We Need Classic Info, The stuff that applies to newer rigs 1995 and up is mostlly irrelevant to us. Funny i was at a camping place the other day picking up some parts when i said 1977 The parts man said i thought all those things had turned to stone or rust by now ! Frank
LOL! Yeah, all our parts are now petrified! Good phrase... Classic RVs need classic info... :)
There are obviously some of us "experienced" persons around who are intelligent enough to prefer a simple, elegant classic to the techno-junk sold today! Or as they say around here "if it ain't broke don't fix it! :laugh:
Quote from: Mark Sobyak on October 14, 2013, 02:46 PM
LOL! Yeah, all our parts are now petrified! Good phrase... Classic RVs need classic info... :)
recently I had to replace the steering gear box on my rv, my friend/mechanic told me I should look into getting a new pitman arm if they weren't too expensive, he said they can be a pain in the butt to take off sometimes, so when I looked for a new pitman arm, for the first time ever (and sure to not be the last time) I kept coming up with "Part Discontinued" over and over, my friend joked that it wasn't a good thing to see when my rv is also my house, got a little chuckle from that, luckily I found a new pitman arm on ebay. I wouldn't mind having a newer rv but by the time I ever got the money to upgrade I will have made too many memories with this one.
As the wonderful Oz stated previously here,.... always good to have some of these older topics recycled a bit.
I found the waste tank outlet frozen today,... right up to the gates! Nothing serious yet, but started heating the space as a precaution and so I can drain the tanks before I leave. The main problem here is a "drop" from this compartment, to the exposed outlet, outside and below the compartment. It's of flex material that retains a bit of water and jus builds up ice, causing a little sag that increases the problem.
On a more serious note,.... I have ICE building up on the roof!!!! I noticed the snow cover holding nicely, much better than the ol' Winnebago. So insulation is certainly much better. But when I noticed ice slipping from the metal roof of my daughters home, I thought I'd better check my own more closely.
It would NEVER make it thru the rest of winter without immediate attention!!!! I do have a slight incline to the port side (lol!) to shed rain and water better, but ice doesn't shed like that. I should have used a number of small manageable tarps to cover and assist in the periodic removal of ice and snow without the roof damage of shoveling and sliding ice off. Even walking on the ice and snow cover, can risk damage to the thin aluminum skin.
Serious ice buildup is something that doesn't occur with those RV's unused and unheated thru the winter. And the relatively small rooftop of most will tolerate typical and reasonable snow loads quite well. I haven't the "snotty" icicles that were heavy and common with full-time life in the ol' Winnebago. The result of heat loss thru the ceiling/roof that constantly melted the snow and ice that flowed off and built up on the grill, bumper and skirting.
But I'm concerned of the 1/2"-1" sheets of roof ice, blowing off the top while traveling the highways next week into warmer climes. A hazard to following motorists that I'd be likely responsible for. How can I remove this excessive ice??? I'm a bit reluctant to use salt or typical stuff since I have a bare aluminum roof skin. What "deicing" options do I now have??? I'm considering a heavy salting jus before I leave, with hopes of heavy rinsing rains as I journey south. Any other suggestions???
I think if you just tap on it with a broom handle or such you will find it will break up easily and is probably not tuck to the roof. There is enough flex in the roof that you will not damage the roof as long as you are not beating on it and don't try to peel it off. Just let the loose stuff fall off and the other stuff will come off on its own. I think most of it will just fall off once broken apart. Do it in a sunny day after the sun has shone on it for a few hours to loosen things up if possible. That will leave what is left to melt away. Stay away from vents and skylights.
"A sunny day", he says. HA!
"A broom handle", he says. HA! I believe he's thinkin one of those "OLD" wooden ones. ya.
And all this time I thought the dimples I had seen on some, was hail damage from the past!
In Michigan, we average 3 sunny days in Dec,... those days are less than 9hr and I think we only had about 2 1/2!!! Temps might hit 30 today, falling from now thru Mon when they'll bottom out at 0 with a high of 10. I expect it to be sunny then, usually is when below 10 degrees in Jan. But the big lakes are still open,... that brings cloudy lake effect snows.
I'm going to gently brush the snow off, and any loose ice. I thought about flexing the roof a bit from the inside,... but jus no way!!! The bedroom flexes the most, and that ain't much now. And I keep my distance from any cold and brittle, sealed areas. Don't want any cracking for leaks which are worse in cold snowy times. There's always a light wet layer under the snow and ice that freezes overnight or on extreme days. That ice build up is a problem on mobile homes here, sliding off in sheets, it's a danger by doorways. But I don't even have that gentle of slope.
Wednesday might see the high reach 32,... cloudy of course. And a continuous snow fall Thursday thru the weekend,... I'M HEADED SOUTH THUR AFTERNOON!!! Still thinkin' a salt/chloride mix Wed night, and a good sweep Thur morning before I leave. And a hit a truck wash next week.
Think I could get on a runway if I faked some wings on this??? Have them deice it before I take off???
!-!You have to remove anything i?? on the roof before getting on an interstate The law requires all veh to be snow and ice free before traveling on an interstate ! They will fine and tow ! violators :'(! You are also financially responsible :(for any damage caused by snow or ice coming loose and causing damage , Like a loaded semi losing control and killing 50 people and ruining a $ million dollar load !But seriously if you can find a heated garage that will let you park overnight ! Frank
A truck wash will be able to access roof and the water, even cold, will melt the ice away
Salt is bad enough but calcium would be death for the aluminum after seeping into the seams! Not to mention what it would do to the windows, both aluminum and glass!
Snow is a fantastic insulator so if you have a decent layer of snow then you should be able to pull that off with no ice underneath. You may get flash freeze of the little bit that is left but that is not the problem, it is the big stuff that has to come off.
We got about 6-8"+ on the ground, about 3-4" or more of snow on the roof, it's been settled and melted a bit from inside heat loss. And got about 1/2-3/4" of ice in the worst spots. Some melt does drain and I get an icicle on the front right corner and some build up down the front right side,... that's mostly because the front 6' of the coach roof has a good slope and I'm leaning slight right. But not the edge of "teeth" like the ol' Winnebago or the mobile home. The melt forms an "ice dam" along the snow edge, "a horizontal icicle" that grows and holds more melt back each day.
Thought of a truck wash, but it might be 50mi before I find one here in the north. And thought of turnin' up the heat inside and jus hosing it down till the majority was gone (well water is about 50 degrees). Something I'd do at the last minute while warming up to leave, then the excess water and chunks would slosh off with road motion in the first few hundred yards before it froze, leaving a thin ice skin of nothing serious and maybe a few little icicles hangin' on the back. If I leave the hose turned off for more than 20 min, it will freeze solid on me layin on the ground, if not drained completely,... it's often in my tub to thaw before I need it.
I really need a good roof with a smooth overlapping shoulder OVER the edge, instead of the edge trim ON the top of the roof edge. The gutter edge is enclosed in a solid chunk!!! And I don't dare open my canopy now, there enough ice in that already. Jus a slight crown would be nice too. I'd have icicles from the trim and down the sides,... but much easier to handle I think. Who knows,... hard to handle Mother Nature sometimes. Gonna have to rethink this ALOT before I spend another extended winter up here.
On a good note,... water supply and plumbing hasn't been a problem in the Cruise Air II, except for that hose,... and the exposed drain loop below the waste tank compartment. I prop a cardboard box around that and put a hair-dryer in it,... clear in about an hour or two. Wouldn't have that problem if my grey gate didn't leak slightly,.. something else to fix when I get south. I also don't have much for ice build up on the inside of the window sills yet. I try to keep condensation in check, the worse is the lower edge of the windshield,... the coldest spot in the coach, and they are the biggest windows. But then, ZERO is jus a few days away!!!
I knew that the worst sub-freezing (below 10) days would be challenging, and didn't wanna stick around here so long. I've seen many out-of-state coaches headed south lately,... and with the snow finally falling, others arriving are jus weekend snowmobilers and skiers that are "GLAMPING" it from the big cities in the lower part of the state. They have their challenges too, I suppose.
Hello Everyone. Great source of info here. I haven't started full time camping yet, but found out a thing or two from having parked the MH here in Cleveland over the winter. I found my awning cover (the Aluminum hinge part) had some ice damage, water got into the joints froze and popped the hinge apart. Before I sold my sewing machine I made a set of insulated curtains. I can tell they made a difference in the shot time they've been installed.
Thanks in advance.
Philip
Excellent innovation. Thanks for sharing it with us. Photos would be super so we can see how it looks.
Time to once again,... recycle this seasonal topic.
I HAD considered a new topic of info, but there's some great experience here, and thought I'd follow-up my last reply in this post and add THIS SEASONS latest updates and Ideas.
As a seasonal "snowbird" and full-timer, I departed the cold during mild weather jus a week or so after my last reply. Sweeping snow and up to AN INCH of ice from the roof as I headed out for the warmer climes of Florida's Emerald Coast. A thin layer of water under it all had loosened it and needed only to toe-tap here and there to break large sheets and sweep them away. A week later,... sub-zero temps hit, and I was glad I departed when I did.
THIS YEAR,... I will be unable to escape, and be forced to face the entire harsh winter season of Northern Michigan, in my otherwise comfy "upstairs apartment on wheels"!!! AND, I'm trying something new, yet common among those who live aboard small water vessels year around here, in the harbors of the Northern Great Lakes. Many who store boats and RV's have them "shrink-wrapped" tightly, to ward off the harsh winter. Those who live aboard year-around will use a technique of wrapping "loosely" to provide added protection with full access, some on the water in marinas, others in "dry-dock".
Since I'm semi-permanently parked for my extended stay,... I've constructed an oversized solar "green-house", much the same as dry-docked live-aboards. The uniqueness of my circumstances did require some GREAT considerations!!!
I needed to reduce the heat loss from the howling sub-freezing winter winds, AND minimize ice and snow build-up and the accompanying inconveniences. I began with a light-weight upper support of 12' 2x4's on top of the RV.
The supports are tied in tension together with a doubled-up 1/2"x 600lb nylon "ribbon". These are anchored to the ground with 30" auger-plate ground anchors. The 20' open canopy, protected too,... is also separately anchored and provides a large protected "work area" under the "green-house". This has to withstand storm-force winds AND minimal damage in case of complete failure.
Comments? Questions? Tips? Thoughts? Criticisms? Compliments? LoL!!!
I cant tell from the picture but the stick on inside plastic window covers will help a whole lot for temp loss (small air space ) I noticed a 10o warmer inside with them also they help reduce the window sweating, Make shure you still have some way for fresh air circulation if needed Vent fan will do with opening cover all windows incl Windshild A wind breaker around the base also straw bales or cardboard an Extension light w 100 W bulb will keep anything from freezing if wind is blocked Carefull of flamables coming in contact with bulb and chek often for burn out Good Luck and stay warm Frank
Tnx,... this is actually a 2-part post as you'll see here. I took a short break between them.
The photos below show the completion of my "green-house" (with a minor change of the front support "timbers"). The bottom perimeter is loosely jus above the ground for ventilation of heavy "airs" and to provide needed circulation. I'll try to keep the perimeter cleared of snow, but should it be excessive, I've left the "doorway" completely open to a south exposure. It's a somewhat protected exposure and we see minimal wind from that direction so I hope not to see "inflation" failure. Remember,... my furnace and hot-water exhausts are IN the greenhouse. The lost heat from those exhausts will be helpful inside as the heat rises,... but dangerous heavy vapors HAVE TO escape below and/or out!!! Propane is another heavy vapor to consider here. I'll have 120gal tank located outside the greenhouse and piped into my system, as I can no longer jus run into town to fill the 100lb onboard tank. I use about 2+gal a day in cold temps at less than $2 a gallon.
The view with the orange snow fence in the most dangerous NW direction of high prevailing and storm winds. The snow fence will reduce drifting that been a past problem and the recent storm here showed it will be quite effective. But it won't stop the tremendous winds. The structure has so far handled gusts to 25mph quite well and an impending storm later next week will bring similar winds with heavy snows. The concern from this direction is inflation under the perimeter (which will diminish with banking snow) and pressure collapse. Such failure will jeopardize the canopy, so it's anchored securely to limit failure to the fabric only. It's newly replaced this year, but was less than $100 and I'll sacrifice it if necessary to protect the frame, roller, and RV damage.
The cover reduces effect of "wind-chill" and heat loss. While I "could" bunk the bottom of the RV with added straw, but air-flow is minimal and didn't want to encourage "vermin" into such comfort. "Bunking" with snow or straw is an emergency backup in case of complete failure leaving me exposed in the open.
There is considerable moisture INSIDE the greenhouse walls, but so far, minimal inside the RV! Much of that moisture is the result of propane exhaust. But the balance between inside and out of the RV has been much as expected and quite satisfactory. I have an insulating blanket that close the cab area off as the windshield and front cab area is my area of greatest heat loss. I have VERY nice window shades, but again,... windows WILL be insulated/covered in the event of failure. The top area of the green house does have about 1/2doz vents, and I may add more. I also have an option and backup of adding larger lower wall vents if needed.
The greenhouse should shed snow and ice better than the boat out back,... the boat's unheated and the smaller taut cover has less motion. Should wet heavy snow come on a calm 30degree night, I may have to be watchful of the upper areas of the greenhouse. I have about 2' of access on the dry roof of the RV!!! Nice!!!!
There's plenty of clearance to provide snow-free access to all bunks on both sides, and you can see I have a nice extended work area under the canopy with no snow at my doorstep!!! The taut cover doesn't rattle much, all support ribbons are taped to the skin and reinforces it. But it's strange to not hear the rain patter on the roof of the RV!
The real test will be Jan's low sub-freezing temps. We only see about 2-3days of sunshine in Dec and a 50degree sunny day saw the greenhouse in the low 70's,.... I opened the windows!!!! Jan see's far more sunshine thru longer days, but much colder temps. I also jus happen to be in the WORST Snowbelt of North Michigan where lake effect snows are quite excessive if Lake Michigan remains free of ice thru the winter. Next week may easily see a foot total for Thur-Fri.
And I'm READY!!!
Oh, and the COSTS of staying in Michigan thru the winter,.... will be about equal to the costs of moving to Florida and back!!! That's propane and shelter vs gas and minimal EXPENSIVE Florida propane. Yes,... still need heat in N Florida's winter, jus not as much.
So no real gain or loss,.... except winter's comfort. I hate snow and cold!!!! And got no snowshoes!!!!
I remember a Thanksgiving snowstorm in the Mojave back in the mid 70's. We had about 6" left on the vehicle when we arrive in Costa Mesa,.... and a dripping snowball fest in t-shirts!!!
Shrink wrap is also "RECYCABLE", with lots of drop-offs around Michigan. The roll-end leftovers I have will be used for "mini-greenhouses" over the raised beds of my son-in-laws garden this winter,.... ready for an early frost-free planting season in early, EARLY spring!!!
And next-year,.... a "solarium" is tentatively planned for a 27' above-ground pool in N. Florida!!! With hopes of extending the pool season late into the year for some friends, with a cleaner start-up the following season. It will include a zippered access door and a "quick-n-dirty" solar heater. Them folks don't take to cool water much.
If one has ever thought of, or considered, an economical, temporary, enclosed and dry workspace for RV's or auto projects in off-seasons,... Shrinkwrap might be a solution for some. It's also used to enclose large construction projects for worker comfort and protection. It's available with flame retardants and UV inhibitors too.
i?? But best wishes and a warm winter, Good Luck ! Frank
DRMosseau, that looks like a recipe for death by carbon monoxide.
Quote from: tmsnyder on December 02, 2016, 10:23 PM
DRMosseau, that looks like a recipe for death by carbon monoxide.
It certainly IS!!!!
And there was/IS a great deal to consider here!!! HECK,... I'm living on a bomb of gasoline and vapors, a huge volume of propane, an AC electrical system with no earthen ground, a battery system releasing a significant volume of hydrogen. Did I mention a primitive septic/waste system? The hazards of CO have been GREATLY considered too. There were also many non-hazardous considerations and many of inconvenience , that are unique to life in an RV, and also must be considered. And the weight of each, is given in an appropriate proportion of hazards and risks!
Even a small amount of CO can be severely hazardous, but my level of concern here is far less than if I was fishing in a heated ice shanty for the morning. My concerns of auxiliary propane heating with "safe" appliances have kept me from considering such for my RV,... but many say they have no problems or concerns in their use. Still,... I tend to error heavily on the safer side. I'd rather my "green-house" be more sturdy and enclosed, but my concerns of such dangerous hazards were overwhelming!!!
AND, modern technology has made high quality, durable, digital CO detectors affordable today,.... expensive, but affordable!!! I see no reason why one's home or RV should be without one.
It would appear to me that your shroud venting provisions - both low and high - coupled with the RV venting likely meet or exceed a stick built house. Co and propane detectors are, as you say, mandatory. Given the minimal square footage of a RV, the warning they provide should be far more quickly received than they would be in a 2500 sq.' house. With a battery replacement and detector testing log, implemented regularly, you likely are 'safer' than most houses. Kudo's for your winter prep.
As for an earthen ground, I am sure you realize how easy it is to provide one if you are somewhat permanent. The below is interesting in showing the need for a proper ground:
http://9gag.com/gag/aYbNqb7/lightning-in-slow-motion
Since you ask for comments and mention failure points I see one I would consider. You have built an extremely lightweight structure for what I would consider to be a pretty harsh environment. You do get heavy snow up there and to be perfectly honest I do not see that structure holding up to it. The only real damage area I see is your awning, if the sow filled plastic comes crashing down the awning, and anything it is attached to, is history.
Am I seeing this wrong? It appears that you are you venting the RV furnace directly into the enclosed air in which you are living. This would be like me disconnecting the gas furnace and hot water tank in my basement and venting it directly into my house. They are vented outside for a reason. CO detectors aren't meant as the first line of defense to CO poisoning. They are backups to the first defense, a properly vented appliance.
No one has ever accused me of being over safety oriented but even I think this is a really bad idea.
Can you at least vent the furnace outside the tented area?
:)ThmbUp
Yes,... the furnace and water-heater exhaust IS within the structure. But this IS NOT an ENCLOSED structure,... closer to an open end PVC carport with 3 loose walls or even an igloo. I start the genny occasionally, and the main engine,... jus to run them a few minutes and check 'em out so they're ready when needed. Sorta like running the car in the garage with the door open, my doorway is open ALL the time! As I noted,... I may add additional low over-sized vents as snow and ice will begin to obstruct the lower perimeter opening. The biggest gain here not as a warm green-house, but as a wind-break that reduces the losses due to radiation, convection and wind-chill,.... with some hoped for solar relief on sunny days.
A good deal of wet, sticky and heavy snow accumulated today, in rather mild temps near freezing, these conditions are my biggest concern with or without the added "green-house" protection. Without, a heavy load gathers on the roof with constant melting layer beneath it all. The water then freezes around the edges and causes "ponding" that will eventually freeze into a thickening layer as temps drop closer to sub-zero. Where snow-melt and water does escape the roof, HUGE thick icicles quickly form over the sides, mirrors, grill etc., and causes exterior damage. This doesn't occur when stored unoccupied and unheated, but is a constant menace to "live-aboards", as any water that begins to intrude into unseen areas (around vents, seams, pin-holes,...) may ALSO freeze into unrecoverable damage!!! Full-timers BEWARE!!!
As Rick noted, it is an EXTREAMLY light structure. I used 7mil shrink, which is typical for boat and vehicle storage and an additional cross-member when I determined that my spacing may be excessive for the needed support. I may have better chosen 10 or 12mil often used in construction sites. Today's snow (photo below) shows the most vulnerable to be the uppermost plane and somewhat the area directly above the canopy. The loss of heat DOES reduce this as does any solar effect on sunnier days, without the ice-dams and icicles I've previously experienced. But accumulations can be excessive over the long season, jus as upon any home here. Many homeowners pull dangerous or hazardous snow loads from their roof, and I may have to more frequently. Since the structure is rather small and light, I also have an option to heat the area for a short duration by opening my ceiling vent/fans to allow added heat directly into this critical area, AND/OR use a use a kerosene "tent heater" in the rear area beyond the canopy for afternoon while working on projects "outside" in my "green-house". A fan can also be used to direct this added heat into the critical narrow area above the canopy and roof if necessary.
My greatest concern is late winter winds!!! Although critical large flats will need a dang good direct gust, buffeting thru the season may create worn areas of contact points. Many of these have been reinforced with a special tape and provides extra thickness and protection from wear and expanding tears. Still,... this kinda thing requires constant monitoring and evaluation, to foresee impending disasters. Ya hope for the best, but are prepared for the worst!
I certainly would NOT be running the generator in there let alone the engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The generator yo can run an exhaust extension out the side. There is no way there is enough airflow that I see to run the engine without routing the exhaust out of the tent.
I DO have two short flexible makeshift extensions for those exhausts, standing by. Haven't yet needed them yet, but that last pic shows that I surely will,... if even for the short moments of testing and system checks.
Today has brought a few broken intervals of sunshine, and all that you see covering me here, has now been completely shed, jus as expected. And some banking has formed around the lower perimeter from the snow shedding, as also expected. But I didn't expect this banking effect to be so wet and heavy on the bottom of the near vertical sides. Fortunately, this area is extra strong and can be easily cleared. As long as we see no accumulations of 4-6',... I'll survive. And given the existing conditions, I can now see an actual reduction of propane use over the short period of this week. And it should be a significant long term savings, even in the worsening conditions soon to come.
Full Time Winter Living, may actually be survivable!!!
If "cave life" hibernation is surviving!!!! LoL!
(still gonna need snow-shoes.)
A brief update,....
My long-term supply of propane arrived a few days ago,... 100gals at a wonderful $1.66 per gal WITH, delivered refills when needed (and being parked for the winter,.. deliveries WILL be needed!). And jus in time too. Although temps have been hovering around 20degrees, the 30mph wind gusts have settled dramatically.
And this morning,... an measured 16in of snow has arrived in the last 24hrs, with as much expected in the NEXT 24!!! An "avalanche" of several inches constantly slips from my "bubble".
Welcome to my FB page where I've posted a short clip of current conditions.
https://www.facebook.com/dan.mousseau.5?fref=nf
I think you missed the point of living full time in an RV, it's not too late to head south, get the heck out of there before the snow gets too high!
Quote from: tmsnyder on December 09, 2016, 11:55 AM
I think you missed the point of living full time in an RV, it's not too late to head south, get the heck out of there before the snow gets too high!
Oh believe me, if not for some winter appts, looong past due,.... I'd be a thousand miles away from here right now!!!
Temps outside are currently in the single digits, with over 20mph wind gusts. And inside "my bubble",... over 10degrees warmer and calm, even with the open doorway. The RV's outer skin reads about 30 degrees. No frost or ice on ANY of the windows. Nearby buildings have HUGE icicles reaching to ground,.... I have absolutely none!!!! Snow AND ice sheds itself easily from the "green house" covering, without becoming excessive... I have only to occasionally shovel it aside from where it gathers around the outside of the lower walls. It's all I had hoped for,.. dry, free of ice, snow, and water, no chilling wind, and jus slightly warmer, than the harsh surrounding environment. This is VERY extreme for December here, and the worst of Jan is similar.
I replaced the igniter, a through check, and fired up the rear furnace yesterday, Surprised to find no detectable CO in either furnace output, and thought I had TWO faulty devices,... but they both checked out quickly with other sources of CO, (started the genny nearby) and I'm greatly relieved. A slight amount of CO from the water heater when fired up,.. noticed it often started hard so I checked it out too. Nothing dirty, but a tiny air adjustment made a great improvement in ignition and emissions.
Damn it's cold out there!
Quote from: tmsnyder on December 09, 2016, 11:55 AM
I think you missed the point of living full time in an RV, it's not too late to head south, get the heck out of there before the snow gets too high!
Oh believe me, if not for some winter appts, looong past due,.... I'd be a thousand miles away from here right now!!!
Temps outside are currently in the single digits, with over 20mph wind gusts. And inside "my bubble",... over 10degrees warmer and calm, even with the open doorway. The RV's outer skin reads about 30 degrees. No frost or ice on ANY of the windows. Nearby buildings have HUGE icicles reaching to ground,.... I have absolutely none!!!! Snow AND ice sheds itself easily from the "green house" covering, without becoming excessive... I have only to occasionally shovel it aside from where it gathers around the outside of the lower walls. It's all I had hoped for,.. dry, free of ice, snow, and water, no chilling wind, and jus slightly warmer, than the harsh surrounding environment. This is VERY extreme for December here, and the worst of Jan is similar.
I replaced the igniter, a through check, and fired up the rear furnace yesterday, Surprised to find no detectable CO in either furnace output, and thought I had TWO faulty devices,... but they both checked out quickly with other sources of CO, (started the genny nearby) and I'm greatly relieved. A slight amount of CO from the water heater when fired up,.. noticed it often started hard so I checked it out too. Nothing dirty, but a tiny air adjustment made a great improvement in ignition and emissions.
Damn it's cold out there!
Quick update,....
Had propane tank refilled yesterday.
Avg daily use since Christmas,... 2.6gal a day. This has been the toughest stretch of sub-zero and freezing temps and should get better after the groundhog appears.
Glad I have a "senior discount" with local propane supplier!!!
its even cold down here in georgia W% :)rotflmao
Ya never REALLY know when winter's really over in some places, like here in North Michigan. The 10' piles of snow disappear, only to return again with several inches of whiteness. And then the bouts of freezing rain, sleet, snow pellets, and occasional record-breaking low temps!!! Seems winter NEVER ends!!!
So last fall, I planted a bunch of crocus and tulips since the groundhog is jus a "fairy-tale". :D I figured when the last days of winter are upon us, the crocus begin to bloom, and I should have my "bubble" removed in time to enjoy the tulips bobbing colors.
My "bubble" has done GREAT!!! No challenge to heavy wet snows and ice,... but winter winds were a bit unearving. The snows built up tremendously on the ground around the sides and added INCREADIABLE weight, pressure and tension to the "bubble", and aided it's wind resistance. But SPRING IS APPROACHING!!! The crocus and tulips are jus beginning to appear thru the bare ground here and there as the snow recedes with warming windy days!!! AND THAT WIND!!! ??? WoW!!!
Yesterdays winds gusted to 53mph around here, some places nearby reporting over 60mph!!!! Thought my "bubble" would finally "PoP"!!! It certainly won't endure the vicious spring thunderstorms yet to come! N:(
But it has kept me VERY dry and comfortable thru the harsh winter here. With the supporting structures resting on the roof with little clearance though, I'm unable to gain the needed access to seal and recoat the rooftop in preparation for the upcoming season of adventure. This "foresight" would have been wonderful as the environment has kept the roof clean and dry with sunny warmth and ventilation, perfect for such roof work!
So with a close eye to weather forcasts,... I now hope to catch a good stretch of some warm, sunny, dry days, and quickly remove my "bubble" and attend to the needed maintenance. Once removed, the HUGE covering will temporarily serve as a loose "tarp", overnight, covering to keep dew and morning dampness at bay during the multiple coating and sealing process.
Current thoughts and lessons learned by this experience??? The "bubble" has been GREAT in my expectations! No heavy damaging ice and snow buildup on the roof. With 24hr heating, melting snow from escaping heat, forms a constant layer of water, that freezes and builds a giant ICE SHEET of immense weight on the roof! Excess that constantly drips off, forms HUGE icicles that hang on the sides and are also damaging and cause water to backup and penetrate where none should! These are problems an unheated RV in outdoor storage seldom sees in excess. Soooo, no leaks nor damage from winter life in the RV,.... it has been kept dry and the interior very comfortable without excessive humidity, mold, or any dampness at all! Heat costs have been reduced by the large insulating air space of the "bubble" and the lack of excessive chilling wind and air flow around and under the RV. I WOULD consider a more durable "temporary" supporting structure. A freestanding geodesic framework of metal conduit, would be easy to assemble and secure to the ground in much the same manner,.... a temporary garage or pole-barn sorta thing. I would also consider a slightly more durable shrink-wrap rather than the typical 7mil I used. This would not only be suitable for winter season of full-time living,... but would have extended uses of major RV repair and reconstruction, a protected place for unexpected winter repairs of autos or trucks or garden equipment, and great late-winter greenhouse for an entire garden!!!
I hope to not spend another harsh northern winter season as a full-time live aboard,... but IT CAN be done, and in great comfort too!!!
Well,... the "thaw" is arriving, sometimes, occasionally,.... aw heck, it's The Winter Wonder Land of Michigan!!!! D:oH! And while there IS still a bit snow in the shadows, for the most part, it's gone,.... but we could dumped on in a sneeze! W% In the meantime, I have some fruits and flowers potted up in the sunny side of the "greenhouse" for an early spring start when it gets here.
I expect crocus to show up late this week MAYBE. I'm always hopeful, and tulips have pushin' up, everywhere,... will be a while till they're ready to bloom. And while March is breezy, winds gusts are only about 30mph or so. Warming temps, breezes, and rains have begun to soften the ground a bit. And my ground anchors may loosen badly in a storm. Sunny days above 40, can see a HUGE temp rise in my "bubble". Enough to start some roof maintenance where accessible. I'm watch weather forecasts VERY closely. Need about 3 days of +55degree temps and above 40 nights with light breeze,.... then it comes down and quickly recoat the roof before heavy spring rains and storms arrive. Oh,... and before the fishing season gets too far under way. Got trips planned for May.
As a quick "pop-up", my bubble has surpassed all I expected. A few issues with sliding snow that builds up heavily around the perimeter. This tightens the "bubble" a lot, and pressured the board supports on top. I see some very slight "crushing" of the roof at the very edges. May actually provide for drainage a bit. Since my canopy has been open all winter, the roller is jus slightly bowed from the same weight and pressure, as a few supporting straps ride over the roller. Canopy is jus fine, but if a severe storm arrived unexpectedly, and lifted my "bubble" loose, I would surely suffer the canopy loss and MAYBE worse structural loss and RV damage. To rollup the canopy would severely loosen the bubble in a critical manner. But with the canopy out all season AND DRY, there is nothing harmed in any way. No water, ice or mildew or any winter damage at all. It is dusty,... the bubbly is jus a little dusty inside. Nothing washes away AT ALL! But the next few weeks will be BUSY!!!! Spring IS coming!!!! :)clap
If I were to do it again, I would make a few changes. Most notably,.... a framework totally independent of the RV and canopy. I think I'll design a large geodesic "bean" sorta, freestanding framework, using light steel conduit. This could be quickly and easily bolted together and anchored more firmly to the ground, and provide a much stronger "base" for the shrink-wrap cover. Easily taken down, color-coded, and stored in bundles. Freestanding, I could drive from under it if, or when needed, and the canopy would not be necessary for the additional room I enjoy. The cover could be "cut loose" in the event of extreme weather of disastrous nature, leaving the airy framework to stand thru the storm if necessary. I might consider a slightly heavier shrink-wrap for such, while the standard weight performed well, a heavier weight would extend use beyond winter for various purposes as a greenhouse, storage of boats, lawn equipment, and vehicle repair out from the rainy, windy, cool spring weather. Such a structure is far FAR cheaper than a large pole building in many ways, and has many of the same advantages and some flexibility too. Hm?
OH! BTW,.... IF, I had ever considered a TBI EFI conversion,.... I'd be unable to resist a little "boost" too. Todays technology is AWESOME, and so much better than when these classics were made. No more concerns of "flying carburetors" and shrapnel like that experienced in the '70s,... yes, I SURVIVED!!! W% And it sure was exciting!!! But how great jus a little boost would be in hilly country or busy highways, and it's so much easier today!
Oh listen,........... RAIN!!! I kinda miss raindrops on the rooftop,... definitely quieter in the "bubble", can barely hear it out there.
My reccomendation is NOT to go to TBI injection , If you have a properly operating Carburator There is no improvement. For a decent injection syestem It has to be port injection TBI is the same as a carb ! SEe my Posts in the projects section ! Frank
Amen. There was a reason it was short lived.
Was it this lengthy thread?
http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php/topic,5978.msg22986.html#msg22986
I didn't read it, just the first post where he finds a donor vehicle.
That would be it.