Classic Winnebagos & Vintage RVs

Topic Boards => Diesel Engines => Topic started by: Wantawinnie on October 16, 2012, 12:28 AM

Title: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 16, 2012, 12:28 AM
I made the decision to start the diesel swap in the Chieftain. Follow along and wish me luck.  D:oH! I will try to document all of the steps and problems encountered along the way in case anyone else has similar plans.

A little background. The Chieftain is a later build date 1973 Dodge RM400 chassis with the original 440/727 combination. The transmission is leaking out the front seal badly and the fluid looks and smells burnt. Also, the exhaust manifold gaskets are blown on the 440 and oil is leaking from about every gasket. Due to the plans for this RV and my access to the parts I decided the swap made sense.

The Cummins is a 5.9 6BT out of a 1989 Dodge Ram W350. Factory rating is 160hp at 2500rpm and 400 ft/lbs of torque at 1600rpm. It is a non intercooled version that I will be adding an intercooler to because of the rather heavy duty use it will be seeing. For the transmission, I will be using a diesel specific A518 out of a 1992 Dodge 4wd with a Cummins. In addition, a Gear Vendors overdrive will be mounted directly to the rear flange on the 4wd transmission with an adapter from Gear Vendors that replaces the transfer case.

Cummins diesels operate in a much lower rpm band than typical RV gas engines and, as a result, really need more gears to be effective. Use of an overdrive transmission is almost required if there is any hope of achieving typical highway speeds. The A518 I will be using has the same gearing as the original 727 it will be replacing from 1st through 3rd gears. The overdrive ratio is 0.69 and will achieve speeds between 60-65mph with the diesel. The Gear Vendor has a 0.78 overdrive and will be useful for splitting gears when hill climbing where the factory overdrive is too tall and 3rd gear is rpm limited to around 45mph. Double overdrive with both the factory and Gear Vendor engaged may be useful for interstate travel but will need to be determined once the RV is running and driving. I will run the factory overdrive off a simple toggle switch and engage and disengage it manually at the appropriate time. There are pressure switch options for automatic control of this but I have decided not to go that route. The Gear Vendor has the option of automatic or manual push button control.

Pulling the engine from the donor truck.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/001800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/003800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/001800x600-Copy.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/002800x600-Copy.jpg)

This is the front timing gear cover. There are a couple issues with the 12 valve Cummins diesels that should be checked. Especially when the engine is out of the vehicle as the repair is rather simple. One of these issues is a dowel pin under the cover that can vibrate loose and end up in the timing gears and cause serious damage to the engine. The term for this is KDP(killer dowel pin) and can be researched in depth on the web. The other issue is loose timing cover bolts that can do the same thing.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/024800x600.jpg)

This picture shows the dowel pin.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/026800x600.jpg)

The common fix is to either buy or make a metal tab to hold the dowel pin in place. I choose to make one as it is rather simple. I also Loctited all the timing cover bolts and tightened them back up.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/027800x600.jpg)

The original exhaust manifold needs to be swapped out for one that drops the turbo down and toward the back in order to clear the floor on the Winnebago. This particular manifold and turbo came out of a 2005 Dodge Cummins turbo diesel. This may or may not be needed depending on the RV in question.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/025800x600.jpg)

As with the 440 a front sump pan is required to clear the front axle on the Dodge chassis. Fortunately, the Cummins oil pan is reversible from front to rear. A front sump oil pickup tube is needed and is Cummins part #3920795.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/007800x600.jpg)

Here is the oil pan installed with the sump to the front and the oil dipstick moved to the front location on the block.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Dodge%20Trucks/010800x600.jpg)

This is the intercooler I found for the project. It is very well built and exactly what I have been looking for to fit in the narrow and tall front engine compartment of the Winnebago. It is a Denso unit that came out of a 1999 Mack Midliner with a 190hp Renault diesel. Core dimensions are 30.5" tall, 19" wide, 2.5" thick, and 3" inlet and outlets. This should do a good job keeping exhaust gas temperatures down.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/10-12-2011012Medium.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/10-12-2011006Medium.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/10-12-2011016Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 16, 2012, 12:42 AM
Time to remove the 440 and 727 and prepare for the swap. Pic 1

Bumper is off, grille, and grille divider are out. Pic 2

Overflow tank, windshield washer resevoir, cross brace, radiator, and front crossmember are out. The radiator was a royal pain to remove. Pic 3

Upper shroud and fan are out. The exhaust is unhooked and the motor mounts are loose. A few more things to do but there's not much left before pulling the 440 out. Pic 4

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Oz on October 16, 2012, 06:56 AM
This is totally awesome and something folks have been looking for for a long time.  Thanks so much for sharing this with us in such detail!

This is going to the top of the project board as a "sticky" and a referring topic is posted on the Dodge board.

:)   :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 16, 2012, 06:58 AM
That's pretty neat!  Can't wait to see more of the project, and the end results!


Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 16, 2012, 08:16 AM
Wow! Sweet. We've been talking about a project like this for years on Classic Winnebago's. Thanks for taking the extra time to photograph all the steps. I think your going to have many members riveted to there computers every day from now until the project is done. Have at her, good luck and we'll be fallowing you as you go. :)clap
Oh! What are you going to do with the 440? She may have a few flaws I'm sure she's got some good parts on here. Hm?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 16, 2012, 10:06 AM
Thanks guys, my wife and I are planning some long trips which is the real driver behind the conversion. Hopefully, this will cover the in and outs of this type of project so that if others are interested they can do the same.

The 440 still runs nice. I've got a couple older Dodge trucks and I plan to use it in one of them after degreasing and installing new gaskets.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 16, 2012, 12:13 PM
NUT! :laugh:
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 19, 2012, 09:27 PM
Got everything unhooked from the engine and transmission. Removing the parking brake cable from the drum proved to be a rather stubborn and dirty ordeal. Everything else was fairly straightforward.

So, here is my version of pulling a 440 from a Winnie. :) Pic 1

It's out! I removed the Edelbrock carb and used a $12 carb plate from O'Reilly's and lifted it out. It balanced nicely using the rear of the three lifting holes in the plate. Pic 2

Last two pictures compare the Winnebago engine mounts and the 1989 to 1993 Dodge Ram Cummins engine crossmember. The similarities are very good and bode well for a bolt in swap.  :)clap



Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 19, 2012, 10:08 PM
Makes it look a lot easier with a forklift in a well lit concrete floor garage...lol!  Wouldn't be quite so fun in a gravel driveway or a dirt and root infested campground.  Still awesome, and I can't wait to see more of the project!


Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 19, 2012, 10:51 PM
This is the diesel A518 transmission. If you notice there is a mounting plate that gets bolted to the Cummins and then the A518 bolts to that. This is because there are many different mounting plates available for Cummins engines as they are used in so many different applications. This particular plate will mount 1989-1991.5 727 diesel transmissions and 1991.5-1993 A518 non lockup diesel transmissions only as the bolt pattern is specific. The later 47RH,47RE,etc. lockup transmissions use a similar plate except it is deeper to make room for the lockup converter. Pic 1

Here is the transmission setup I will be using including the Gear Vendor Overdrive. (Still need the adapter from trans to GV) Pic 2

Close up of the Gear Vendor Unit. Pic 3

This picture shows the mounting bolts of the A518. I will be using the front two bolt holes as they are nearly identical to the 727.(the bolt holes are about 1/4" wider on the 727) Pic 4

Here are some approximate measurements comparing the 440/727 and 5.9/A518 setups.

                                                                                                        440/727                                           5.9/A518

Centerline engine mount bolt to front of transmission                                       18.5"                                                19"
Centerline engine mount to fan mounting hub                                                  12"                                                15.25"
Centerline engine mount to front of fan                                                         15.25"                                             19.25"
Bellhousing to centerline transmission mount                                                  20.75"                                             20.25"
Transmission total length                                                                            30"                                                 31.5" (no GV)
Centerline engine mount to centerline transmission mount                                39.25"                                             39.25"

Looking at the numbers we can see that if the Cummins mounts in the exact same location using the existing frame mounts it will extend 4" forward of the 440 and the transmission mount should fall in the same location. Again these are approximate and it will have to be installed to ultimately find out.

The biggest issue is trying to keep the existing radiator mounting setup in place. There is a lot going on in that area and I don't want to re-engineer that if it can be avoided. In order to do this the simplest method is as follows. The length of the 440 with fan installed is the same as the Cummins without a fan installed. This is good because it will physically fit behind the factory radiator as long as the fan is removed from the Cummins. Electric fans will be used instead of the Cummins clutch fan.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 19, 2012, 11:04 PM
Good stuff Mate, all though fork lifts and concrete floors are cheating. :laugh: Keep up the good work. Look forward to your posts. Nice 68 Chevy in the back ground. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 19, 2012, 11:25 PM
Here are a few specifics on the Cummins setup from the 1989 Dodge Ram.

The diesel fuel system uses a fuel pump on the driver side of the block very similar to the big block. A return line to the tank is needed and you can see that to the lower right of the picture. The large sensor on the right top is the coolant sensor location. The large tube coming out of the block is the breather setup commonly in the valve cover on the big blocks. Pic 1

This is a picture of the VE injection pump used in various forms from 1989 to 1993. All are pretty similar for the most part. The wire with the crimped on connector runs to the fuel shutoff solenoid. 12V power to this solenoid and to the starter is all that is needed to get this engine running. The solenoid can be eliminated with a manual cable hooked to the lever directly to the left of the crimp connector. The round piece on the bottom with the fuel line, extra port, and electric connector is known as the KSB. In short, it adjusts timing during engine warmup. On the non intercooled 89-91.5 motors adding 12V power retards timing for normal operation and advances it during warmup. This is controlled by a box located in the Dodge truck. It is not really required and simply tying the fuel solenoid and KSB together to 12v power works fine. Note: On the 91.5-93 intercooled engines the KSB does the reverse, no power retards for normal operation adding 12V power advances the timing. Pic 2

BTW: The wire throttle connector is a farmer's quick fix and not factory.

Last pic is the vacuum pump and power steering pump. Diesel engines don't produce vacuum so this pump allows vacuum accessories to still be used. Pic 3

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 20, 2012, 12:04 AM
Quote from: ClydesdaleKevin on October 19, 2012, 10:08 PM
Makes it look a lot easier with a forklift in a well lit concrete floor garage...lol!  Wouldn't be quite so fun in a gravel driveway or a dirt and root infested campground.  Still awesome, and I can't wait to see more of the project!


Kev

I figured there would be some razing from you guys about my engine hoist.  :P
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 20, 2012, 07:34 AM
LOL!  Where in tarnation did you find a used Gear Vendor unit?  I've been looking and can't find anywhere, even with a national Craigslist search.  The project looks great so far!  And it looks like you are moving right along at a fast pace.  You'll be done before you know it!  Can't wait to hear how she performs both power wise and fuel economy wise.  And heck, its an older diesel, right?  Which means if you wanted to you could run it off biodiesel or even french fry oil with just a couple of minor modifications.  Sweet!


Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 20, 2012, 03:57 PM
Found it on Craigslist, came with a rebuilt big block 727 and a set of 440-3 headers. Shipped to my door for less than $800. The Chevy Turbo 400 setups show up from time to time. There is an adapter for a Cummins to that as well. :)ThmbUp

The diesel is old school and veggie friendly.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 20, 2012, 04:17 PM
If you pull this off and get decent mileage with it I can see a gold rush on Diesels. Really appreciate you taking the time to bring the rest of us along on the journey with you. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 21, 2012, 01:12 AM
No problem, I am a huge fan of these old Winnie's and the early Cummins trucks. Seemed like a match made in Heaven.

BTW: What's this "If" I pull it off stuff? :D
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DonD on October 21, 2012, 08:27 AM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on October 20, 2012, 04:17 PM
WHEN you pull this off and get decent mileage with it I can see a gold rush on Diesels. Really appreciate you taking the time to bring the rest of us along on the journey with you. :)ThmbUp
Fixed :-)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 23, 2012, 11:02 PM
It might not look like much but the better part of the afternoon was spent cleaning the engine compartment and underside of the Winnie of 40 years worth of grease and grime. The transmission area was quite a mess from the leaking seal. Cut out the rest of the exhaust crossover and muffler also. Pic 1

Here are a few pictures of the A518.

The bracket is the mount for the Dodge truck shift lever. The electric plug in on the right is for the overdrive. Everything else is typical A727 stuff. I think the tranny line fittings are larger though. Pic 2

After removing the bracket it appears the A518 in the Pic 3 has a mounting ear nearly identical to the A727 in the last picture. Hopefully, this means the factory shift cable should be a bolt in deal.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 23, 2012, 11:11 PM
I did have a little trouble bolting up the transmission tonight. It is not a big deal but will slow me down for a day or two. I bought an aftermarket flexplate because I didn't have the original and they are prone to cracking. Well, the new one is thicker than the original which makes it stronger but also reduces the clearance to the torque converter. Because of this it does not spin freely and will damage the front seal on the transmission if not corrected. The cure is to either buy an aftermarket bellhousing spacer to move the transmission back about an 1/8" or make one myself. I will call tommorow and see how long it would take to get one. Using factory parts would have not required this.

The pressure line on the power steering will also need to be either made or find an adapter fitting for the original hose. The pump on the Cummins has a different fitting than the 440 unit. The original return hose will work fine as is.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: eddie on October 24, 2012, 12:44 AM
I have a friend that does these type of challenges. I nicknamed him "Brain". You my friend have earned that right..from now on you are "Brain" :) John
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 24, 2012, 11:18 AM
LOL, we will see how smart I am shortly. If I mess up you guys will be the first to know.

I ordered the transmission spacer from PATC this morning. It is part# BHS and cost $69.00 + shipping. It will probably take a couple days to get here so I will find some other work to finish.

I checked out the fuel lines on the diesel truck and they are 5/16" feed lines which is the same as the Winnebago. From looking it over the plan is to remove the rear tank feed line from the dual tank transfer valve and connect a new line up the driver side for a few feet to the diesel pump. Another 5/16" line runs from the charcoal canister all the way back to the rear tank. I am hopeful this can be used for the diesel return line. 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 24, 2012, 08:18 PM
Good read. :)ThmbUp Looks like your doing an excellent job.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 26, 2012, 08:11 PM
Some more progress today. This is a little info on getting the Cummins to work with the Winnie gauges.

Here is the factory coolant sensor removed leaving a 3/4" pipe thread hole. Pic 1

Went down to the local hardware store and found a 3/4" plug with the correct 1/8" center thread to adapt the original 440 sending unit for the factory guage to work correctly. Here it is re-installed. Pic 2

Next up is the Cummins oil sending unit located on the driver side above the engine mount. Pic 3

Unplug the Dodge wiring that will no longer be needed. The sending unit is 1 1/16" and requires a deepwell socket to remove. I borrowed a special socket from a friend made just for these types of newer sending units.   

The 440 sending unit screws right back in the Cummins port and will allow the factory oil gauge to read correctly. Pic 4
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 26, 2012, 08:53 PM
The next step was getting the throttle cable, kickdown, and shift cable to work. I have been dreading the kickdown assembly as the original Cummins cable was missing because the donor had a 5 speed transmission. There is no bolt on deal for this anyway if the original Winnebago throttle cable is used. For simplicity and cost I modified the original 440 components to work on the Cummins.

First, I modified the original throttle assembly by bending the mounts that go to the 440 intake in order to work on the Cummins throttle mount. I then drilled the following 2 holes after measuring the distance needed using the original throttle cable. This mounting dimension was 6.5" from the Cummins idle postion to the center of the throttle cable mount on the original 440 bracket.

For clearance and alignment I flipped the swivel and drilled out the hole. The slide rod was bent for clearance as well. The eyelet on the end of the throttle cable was also drilled out slightly larger to slide over the Cummins throttle assembly. You can see the spacer added to level out the bracket as the Cummins assembly slants downward to the rear.

The Cummins is longer than the 440 and a extension was required. I found a 4bbl kickdown rod in my parts stash off a 1976 Dodge 200 440 4bbl. It is a pretty common item and something similar is easily found in any junkyard. I flipped the rod around and put the fixed end in the swivel bracket and then connected the adjustable end to the factory kickdown rod off the original 440. The return spring brings the kickdown lever back into position after letting off the throttle. Pic 1 is the completed assembly.

Down on the transmission side there are some changes needed as well to get the original shifter and kickdown to work properly. Carefully remove them by loosening the locking bolts and then sliding the levels off. The lower shift lever is retained by an E clip in addition to the bolt.

The A518 and 727 kickdown levers. Pic 2.

The A518 and 727 shift cable levers. Pic 3.

The original 727 levers bolt directly on to the A518 without modification. Pic 4
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 30, 2012, 11:00 PM
The transmission spacer arrived from PATC yesterday. Ordered the Gear Vendor adaptor on Friday so that might show up this week. Also, taking the radiator in to have it cleaned out and pressure tested.

Planning to get the engine and tranny back together tommorow and possibly installed if luck is on my side.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 31, 2012, 07:22 AM
Awesome!  I can't wait to hear how it all works out, power wise and fuel economy wise.


Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 31, 2012, 09:22 AM
INCREDIBLE! Really enjoying and look forward to your posts and pictures. I think your going to help a lot of chaps down the road with their decisions on weather or not to make the swap themselves. Like you I'm sure can't wait to see how it turns out. Getting excited yet? Your doing a great job. Thanks. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 31, 2012, 10:15 AM
Thanks guys!

I am getting quite excited to get the engine and trans dropped in. Really hope this takes some of the mystery out of doing the swap for others.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 02, 2012, 08:59 PM
Another progress update.

This is the transmission spacer from PATC that allows the use of a heavier flexplate. It also comes with two longer dowel pins to center it. Pic 1

Here it is installed along with the new flexplate. The flexplate bolts were torqued to 100 ft/lbs. With it installed between the engine adapter and transmission the torque converter now spins freely with just enough play. Pic 2

Purchased new Cummins replacement engine mounts for the 89-93 Dodge Ram with Cummins. These are Anchor brand Part #2710.

Here are the mounts installed. The frame side post needs to be higher than the engine mount side in this application. Pic 3

Here we go ready to try and get it in the Winnie. Pic 4
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 02, 2012, 09:35 PM
HOLY COW  :)ThmbUp Look'n good  :)clap
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 02, 2012, 09:35 PM
Not done yet LJ-TJ.  ;)

It wasn't quick, it wasn't the easiest thing I've ever done but, the Chieftain now has a Cummins in between the frame rails!

Frame mounts now bolted in place. :)clap Pic 1

Clearance to the rear. Pic 2

The height came out pretty good as well. Pic 3

Engine cover went back on without a problem. I still need to get the intake and intercooler tubing ran though. Pic 4

Here are a few things learned while installing it.

1)The vacuum pump canister on the early non intercooler engine will hit the radiator support strut on the driver side so that has to be removed and reconfigured at some point.

2) While the transmission crossmember is in the nearly the correct location, the height of the 4wd A518 is taller and requires the mount to be removed in order to get the engine and transmission in the proper location. It will have to be permanently lowered by a couple inches in order to get the transmission isolator installed. I do not know if this applies to the A518 2wd versions of this transmission or not.

3)The alternator on the Cummins must be removed in order to clear the front grill opening of the engine compartment.

4) The Cummins is a very heavy engine. Even with the forklift I had to use multiple jacks and ratchet straps in order to properly align everything until it was finally bolted in place.

5) It appears that the radiator will clear the front balancer on the Cummins by about 3/4". I will see if any more clearance can be gained by moving the radiator forward slightly. I would like to see about 1.5" of clearance when done.

6) I removed the intake, exhaust manifold, and turbo before installing the engine. I am pretty sure the manifold would have cleared but I doubt the turbo would have made it. Those will be fitted and installed later on.

I think the bull work is over for the most part. Projects that still need to be addressed are the wiring, fuel system, intake, exhaust, intercooling, cooling system, transmission mount modification, Gear Vendors install, and driveshaft modifications. I am sure more will come up as well.

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 02, 2012, 10:47 PM
>GRIN< Haaaahaaa  :)rotflmao Keep up the good work. Your doing a great job. I'm not sure what's going to be worse, making the swap or answering all the dam fool questions we're going to have for you when your done. :D Well done.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on November 03, 2012, 06:37 AM
You are making a stunning amount of progress in a very short time!  You're making me look like a slacker...lol!  Keep up the great work...I can't wait to hear and see the results!


Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 03, 2012, 08:43 AM
Shoot you got half the guys on here look on Craig's list for parts already. >GRIN< D:oH!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 04, 2012, 11:11 PM
After looking things over today I wasn't happy with the passenger side engine mount. It appeared to be putting excessive side load on the rubber isolator. You can see how the isolator was being pulled improperly in the previous post.

The fix was adding 3/4" spacers to the frame side of the mount to move it out further so the bracket would carry the weight instead of the isolator. I think it did the job.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 05, 2012, 07:26 AM
Good move. Looks a lot better.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 18, 2012, 09:17 PM
Today I got the transmission crossmember and mount installed. The crossmember remained in the same location but it was necessary to lower it approximately 2" down in order for the transmission to clear the tunnel. Dropping the mount required drilling new 1/2" holes in the frame mounting pad. With the transmission in place an angle drill is pretty much required for this.

The original style transmission mount was also able to be reused with slight modification. The A518 mounting holes are about 3 5/8" center to center and the 727 was about 4". I just opened up the holes and it bolted to the A518 without much problem.

The A518 and gear vendor setup usually requires a custom length driveshaft to be made because the one in the Chieftain is way too long now. In a stroke of luck the driveshaft out of the D24 parts chieftain is within an 1" of what I need and that can be made up by moving the midship bearing mount forward a little.  :)ThmbUp

Also, took the 440 radiator to a shop and had it cleaned and pressure tested last week. It got a clean bill of health so that wiill save some money.

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 18, 2012, 09:40 PM
Geeessss Don't for get the pictures. I can follow pictures. Duh ??? i??
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 25, 2012, 09:49 PM
Time for another update:

Here is a picture of the relocated transmission crossmember and the original transmission mount from the 727 setup. There are originally 4 bolts on the crossmember. I ended up using only three on each side. The top two on each side and then an alternative one for the lower rear that is not used in the original configuration. The front hole ended up right on the lower frame rail so it was not able to be drilled out. Three still make for a very sturdy setup. The original brake line went back in as original. Pic 1

Rear tailshaft of the 4wd A518 transmission. Pic 2

This is the A518 to Gear Vendors adapter that I ordered. Pic 3

Adapter bolted up to the Gear Vendors unit and the assembly installed. Pic 4

The Gear Vendor uses a 1350 U-joint and the Winnebago has a 1410 U-joint on the driveshaft. I have ordered a combination U-joint to mate these together.


Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 25, 2012, 10:15 PM
Next was solving the power steering line issue. The Cummins power steering pump uses a newer style 16mm x 1.5 O ring fitting. This poses a problem as the original Winnebago lines are flare fittings and the Cummins truck line has O rings on both ends that won't connect with the Winnebago steering gear. It is too short to work anyway.

I spent considerable time looking through parts to find something that would work. What I located was a line used on the late 80's and early 90's dodge full size van that has the correct power steering pump O ring fitting and nearly the same bends and length as the original Winnebago line. Here is a picture of the three lines. Pic 1

This is the O ring fitting needed for the power steering pump. Pic 2

Unfortunately, the Dodge van line has the wrong O ring end on it to work with the Winnebago steering gear. Pic 3

The quick fix is too cut off the incorrect fitting and double flare the Winnebago fitting on the the new line. My only reservation at this point is that the van line is 5/16" on the steering gear end for some reason instead of 3/8". My mechanic friend did the flare for me and thought it should be fine. If not I will find a reducer fitting from 3/8" to 5/16" and use a smaller fitting on the new line. I installed the line and it seems to work fine. I will update this once the rig is running if it doesn't work out this way. Pic 4

The return line is just standard 3/8" power steering line and about 24" is what is needed.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 25, 2012, 10:38 PM
I mentioned earlier that a low mount turbo manifold is needed to clear the floor on Winnebago. I opted to use a newer turbo and a exhaust manifold off of a 2005 Dodge Ram diesel because I wanted a HE351 turbo and the manifolds are easy to find. If you don't want to make the following changes locate a low mount manifold from a Ford bus or big truck setup that had a 12 valve Cummins diesel. They are available new or sometimes can be found used.

The later 24 valve engines use a round exhaust port design which doesn't line up very well with the early 12 valve head ports. This is the original gasket to give you an idea what I am talking about. The gasket is actually misleading to some extent because the actual port in the head is about an 1/8" smaller than the gasket. Pic 1

I scribed around the gasket and then ported the manifold out and blended the ports back in about an 1" with a $15 harbor freight die grinder.

Here is the completed manifold after porting it out. Pic 2

While I was at it I drilled and tapped a 1/8" NPT hole to add a EGT guage down the road. Make sure to drill it in the rear of the divided port. Don't go in the center of the manifold because it has a divider in the middle. The rear side is supposed to run hotter so that is where the gauge should be located. Pic 3

I will just add this quick. The HE351 turbo has an electronic wastegate actuator from the factory that is computer controlled. Some guys recommend welding the wastegate shut on these when going on the early 12 valve engines or use some other method to keep it closed. I decided to use an adjustable spring setup like this so I can fine tune the turbo boost once I get it running. Once it is adjusted right the spring will allow the wastegate to open if boost gets higher than I want without having to let off the throttle. Pic 4
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 25, 2012, 10:49 PM
Well done. Keep up the good work. You've got us on the edge of our chairs waiting. ;)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 25, 2012, 11:09 PM
Next up is getting the wear items addressed. I put a new water pump on and replaced the idler tensioner pulley so they are good to go. I didn't get a picture of the fan hub and removal of the clutch fan as that went on later.

The radiator went back in the original location without issue. The driver side frame bracket does not fit with the vacuum pump on the Cummins. I am going to rig up a simple brace to take care of this problem. Pic 1

This picture was hard to get but it gives an idea of the clearance behind the radiator. There is enough that there won't be a problem. Pic 2

One pleasant surprise, the oil dipstick tube ended up coming past the radiator so I don't have to modify that.  :)clap

The frame crossmember, upper brace, and radiator overflow tank are back in. The upper brace was reversed with the horns to the rear in order to clear the intercooler that will be going in. Pic 3

This is just a little preview of what the intercooler will look like installed.  I plan to drop it down a few inches but you can tell something is going on behind the grill.  :) Pic 4

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: audioguyinMI on November 28, 2012, 03:30 AM
Holy crap, man.  That's one impressive bit of engineering.  One more on the edge of his computer seat...
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 28, 2012, 05:26 AM
>GRIN< this is incredible. Amazing. You don't know how many years guys on this site have been talking about this project and never been able to do it. Fantastic. I can see a run on diesel engines when you get this project done. You'll have to run and go into hiding when the project is finished or we'll all drive you crazy with question. :)clap
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on November 28, 2012, 07:25 AM
Is the diesel engine and transmission considerably heavier than the stock drivetrain, or is it close to the same weight?  Just thinking about possibly necessary suspension mods if its a lot heavier.

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 28, 2012, 10:58 AM
Kev,

The Cummins weighs somewhere around 1150 lbs with all the accessories and the 440 it replaced was around 750 lbs from what I can find. I can tell you that with the Dodge RM400 chassis the extra 400lbs or so didn't phase it one bit. Granted the Winnebago is carrying more total weight but the suspension under there is much heavier than any 3/4 or 1 ton Dodge truck with a factory installed Cummins.

 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Oz on November 28, 2012, 01:06 PM
I'd like to add the observation that, with the age of around 40 years for this chassis, most of our Winnebagos suffer from bad front leaf spring weakness.  The suspension may have been able to handle the additional weight back in the day but now, I'm not so sure.  When I added the air bag suspension to my D24, there was an incredible difference in every aspect of suspension performance and it was overly apparent that, 74k miles and almost 40 yrs of resting on those leaf springs had taken its toll.

So, when considering if the suspension would need beefing up, one must seriously consider it's current condition.  If it's like many, much weakened from it's original capability, the added weight of the diesel motor may have a significant, detrimental affect.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on November 28, 2012, 02:57 PM
Agreed, make sure everything checks out before doing a swap like this. My springs still appear to be in good shape for some reason. For side stability reasons I do plan on at least doing the rear air bags that are still available and possibly rig up a set of brackets and bags for the front as well. 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 03, 2012, 11:53 AM
Worked on getting the exhaust downpipe fitted. I started with a 4" 2nd gen Dodge HX40 downpipe that came with the HE351 turbo I bought. The pipe did not clear the transmission because of the low mount 3rd gen manifold. I bought a 8" extension and started by cutting the flange off the downpipe. Also, in the top right corner is the 4" to HE351 turbo adapter flange which eliminates the Dodge factory cast iron elbow from the 3rd gen trucks.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121125_134051800x600.jpg)
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121125_134030800x600.jpg)
Here is what I came up with. A 1.5" section was cut off the rear of the extension.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap010Medium.jpg)
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap012Medium.jpg)
The downpipe needed to be angled in order to clear the spring hanger and transmission.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap011Medium.jpg)
This is the adapter flange and downpipe bolted up the the turbo. The HE351 takes a special (aka expensive) oddball clamp and then a standard 4" clamp to bolt up the downpipe.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap014Medium.jpg)
Clears the transmission.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap009Medium.jpg)
Clearance from the spring hanger.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap013Medium.jpg)
Ended up pretty good heading out the back.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap007Medium.jpg)
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap008Medium.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 03, 2012, 11:55 AM
The upper radiator hose was a little challenging. It has a short tight bend and goes from 2" on the Cummins to 1.5" on the radiator.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap003Medium.jpg)
Wandered around the local parts store looking at all the hoses and came up with this solution. He had an ancient dry rotted hose on the shelf from a 80's F250 with an inline six. It had the right ends and a sharp bend so I ordered up a new one.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap004Medium.jpg)
Cut the hose to length and added a spring to help with the bend.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap005Medium.jpg)
Looks pretty good.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap016Medium.jpg)

The upper hose inlet on the non intercooled 89-91 Cummins engines is different than the later versions. It is likely this hose will not work on those engines so check that before buying anything.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 03, 2012, 02:14 PM
I wanted to update one of my previous posts about the Winnebago driveshaft as there is an error. The original driveshaft uses a 5380 series U joint and not a 1410. They are very similar but the cap size and inner C clip makes the 5380 unique. I will most likely have a new flange welded on the old driveshaft because a conversion joint from 5380 to 1350 is not available from what I can see.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: cosmic on December 03, 2012, 05:14 PM
Thank you for all the updates and photo's you are doing a great deed for all of us classic Winnebago owners who other wise would never have the b*lls to due a challenging experiment like this. Thank you... :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on December 03, 2012, 05:47 PM
Ditto  :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 05, 2012, 10:43 PM
Started tackling the lower radiator hose last week. I didn't get very far with any off the shelf hoses so it was time to dig in the Gates catalog and hope for the best. First pic is looking up at the space available. The radiator outlet is 1 3/4" and the Cummins is 2 1/4". There is also a bracket in the way making it even more challenging. If you have A/C on your Cummins this may not work for those applications. Also, I don't know if the non intercooled Cummins has the same outlet as the later versions so check that.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121205_101127800x600.jpg)
I needed a tight bend off the Cummins and found this hose which has a 2 3/8" inlet (close enough) and 2" outlet pointing down. One application for this is a 1984 F700 Ford with a 8.2L Detroit diesel. I ordered it and hoped for the best. Good news is it clears the frame and heads in the right direction.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121205_100836800x600.jpg)
Now it needs to connect up with the radiator. I found this hose with a 2 1/16" inlet (close enough) and a 1 3/4" outlet and what looked to be the right bends. Application for this is a 1964 Ford Galaxie with a 390 V8. This hose does not come with a spring. I pulled the spring out of the old 440 hose and installed it in the hose for support.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121205_100850800x600.jpg)
I test fitted both hoses on the Winnebago and they will work as is once joined together. I might take an 1" or so off the radiator inlet hose end once I get a stainless hose joiner ordered to put in. To join the hoses I will use the joiner and then clamp it with a Gates Powergrip clamp.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121205_101058800x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 16, 2012, 08:43 PM
Got the 2" stainless splice to finish up the lower hose connection.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152445800x600.jpg)

I left it apart a little bit just to show the connection. The two hoses fit together nice and snug.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152605800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152627800x600.jpg)

The hose combination works fine as is and the clearance is good. Now I can get the thermal hose clamp shrunk once I find my heat gun.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_161838800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_161932600x800.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 16, 2012, 08:44 PM
Ordered up a Walker "Big Truck Muffler" and it came in.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152706800x600.jpg)

Measures 37" end to end.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152648800x600.jpg)

4" inlet and outlet with straight through chamber is supposed to sound decent and provide good flow.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152806800x600.jpg)

Scored a lucky find at my local repair shop last week too. They were putting a new exhaust on a Dodge with an extended frame. Got a 8' long piece of 4" exhaust and the over axle bend. There are a couple rust holes from the hanger spots but the rest is solid. I only need about 6' of pipe so the holes can just be cut off and it will work great. I am going to run it out in front of the rear tire because the amount of bends are crazy to get around the axle, waste tanks, and shock mounts.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152832600x800.jpg)

Couple shots comparing the 3" the Winnie had to the new 4" pipe going in. That extra 1" makes a big difference.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_164558800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_164655800x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 16, 2012, 08:45 PM
Next on the list is to mount the intercooler and start getting the intercooler piping figured out.

I had to cut out the front section of the crossmember to gain enough clearance for the intercooler.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121208_151705800x600.jpg)

I cut a new piece of angle iron to length.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121208_154441800x600.jpg)

I then welded the angle iron to the backside of the crossmember to make up for any loss in strength from removing the section in front.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121208_162445800x600.jpg)

I bought 3" mandrel bent pipes from Summit to make the intercooler runs. This is the turbo side pipe with a 45 degree boot off the turbo and a hump coupler at the intercooler.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152330800x600.jpg)

This is the intake side with a 45 degree boot off the intercooler and a hump coupler at the intake connection.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_152318800x600.jpg)

This is the general idea for the setup.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_150543800x600.jpg)

Here is the final location for the intercooler. The lower mount is done but, I need to build a bracket to secure the top side mounts in place.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_160517800x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 16, 2012, 08:46 PM
In order to line up with the forward facing intake I am building 4" needed to be cut off the intercooler connection pipe.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_154425800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_154437800x600.jpg)

Test fitting the pipe and it looks pretty good.  Still waiting on a few parts I ordered in order to build my 3" intake horn so this is as far and I can get until that is done. Once the horn is built I can finalize all the pipe lengths and then weld some wire on the ends of the pipe to keep the boots from blowing off.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_160311800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_160144800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_160232800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_160220800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_163351800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_160611800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_160559800x600.jpg)

Fits nicely behind the grill.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121216_165839800x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on December 16, 2012, 09:54 PM
>GRIN< WOW! Good work. Keep it up. You got us sitting on the edge of our seats. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on December 17, 2012, 11:35 AM
So instead of asking a stupid question, I looked up on Google exactly what an intercooler was, what it did, and how they work...with a turbo, which yours is now going to have.

Not a lot of engine cooling provided though...its mostly to cool intake air to increase 02 levels when the turbo pushes the hot air. 

So you are going to run this without any sort of cooling fan at all?

I'd be skeered....lol...

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 17, 2012, 01:29 PM
Hey Kev,

The intercooler helps keep the exhaust gas temps in check. It also does as you say to provide a denser air charge. Most diesels except the early one use some form of intercooling. It would have worked without one but stock power settings are a must then.

I am adding a couple electric cooling fans out front for engine cooling.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on December 18, 2012, 08:09 AM
Whew!  Glad to hear you are going to use some electric fans...lol!  I don't know much about Diesels but I figured that some sort of fan would have to be used, especially at idle in traffic on a hot day.  This project is so cool!  You've got me thinking about crazy stuff like this now for someday when the 454 finally gives up the ghost!


Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: AClayton on December 19, 2012, 03:47 PM
Diesels are perfect for these old applications due to their torque and excllent fuel economy. If the cruise rpm could be brought down to around 1800 at 60mph, I estimate 13 to 15mpg even with the flat front nose on the Chieftan. Don't believe me?......late 80's to early 90's Dodge's repeatedly achieved well over the 20mpg mark! As far as the concern for cooling....the ole Cummins won't heat up one little bit and if that radiator kept the bigblock cool, it will be more than up to the task of keeping the 5.9 cool. The 6BT will merely be loafing along while easily maintaining cruise speeds......Heck the chassis brakes amd steering will be the only limitation! It it were me though.....instead of adding the OD unit, I would simply change the gear set in the rear to 3.73. The 4.56 or 88's in your rig now will be way too low for that Cummins and with the low rpm torque you will now have, you won't have any problem getting that meager load rolling!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 19, 2012, 11:48 PM
My '91 W250 4wd with the exact same engine gets 21-22mpg so I have no doubt about the fuel sipping capabilities of these engines. I am hoping for 12-14mpg with the Chieftain.

You guys would laugh at all of the speed vs rpm spreadsheets I studied before starting this conversion. I did include 3.73 gearing in my calculations and you still need an overdrive with those gears. 3.54 gears still don't work well and those are as high as you can get. A 727 gear vendor setup would be just about ideal with 3.73's. The 3.73's will also work fine with just the A518 overdrive transmission except for the large gap in rpm with the A518 overdrive transmission's 0.69 ratio when having to downshift. Others that have done similar or lighter RV conversions have found the Cummins will not pull some hills in overdrive and this will leave you shifting it down out of overdrive and then speed limited because of rpm's. That also could make passing an issue. 

Here are some of the values with the current setup using the gear vendor in combination with the factory overdrive, 33.6" tires, and 4.56 gearing. I also included a 7 percent torque convertor slippage in these values for more real world numbers. The larger tire size also knocks the 4.56 down to a 4.20 gear compared to a similar pickup truck with 31" tall tires. The Dodge trucks were available with either 3.54 or 4.10 gearing from the factory so it is not much deeper than original equipment offered.

Gear Vendor OD   45mph = 1713rpm, 50mph = 1903rpm, 55mph = 2093rpm, 60mph = 2283rpm
Factory overdrive 50mph = 1683rpm, 55mph = 1852rpm, 60mph = 2020rpm, 65mph = 2188rpm
GV + factory OD   55mph = 1449rpm, 60mph = 1581rpm, 65mph = 1713rpm, 70mph = 1844rpm

My situation is a little unique because I already had a 4wd diesel transmission and the Gear Vendor unit. It just made sense to use those versus the cost of rebuilding another transmission and then paying for a rear end gear swap as well. I will have lots of gearing choices depending on the road situations encountered whether it is hills, wind, traffic, or other factors.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: AClayton on December 20, 2012, 07:04 AM
After further researching I noticed that the 518 does not have a lock-up convertor. The weight of these rigs doesn't sway me a bit as far as the Cummins is concerned, but I understand why cruise rpm is so important. The ole workhorse could easily pull your load at around 1600 rpm but the slippage in the TC would send tranny temps kinda high. Not to mention, use what you already have - I missed that when I read through this originally.

Do you plan on modding your Cummins after the install? You can easily get 50 to 60 RWHP just by tweaking the pump a bit. Although, I'm sure you are aware of all of that if you are versed to tackle a project like this! I love this build and am anxiously awaiting the 1st ride and drive. I have a 97 12V with a 46RH 2wd tranny and I have often thought of trying something like this but the IC and inter-connecting tubing stumped me......NOW, thanks to your posts, I have options.

Thank for the extra work you are doing and letting us watch along with you! I am truly grateful!


Alan

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 21, 2012, 12:53 PM
I was concerned with using the A518 originally in this application. I am using a aftermarket torque convertor with a lower stall and less slippage to help with reducing heat buildup. I found a large factory Dodge frame mounted transmission cooler with a fan to go along with the one being mounted up front to help as well. I am also debating a deeper high capacity transmission pan to allow more fluid.

My plans for the Cummins are to get it running and see how it performs. If the need for more power is required and the exhaust temperatures are acceptable the fuel screw will be played with a little. Future power gain is the main reason for the big intercooler and larger turbo going in the rig. I wanted some room to increase it if needed. One thing about the early 89-91 non intercooled model Cummins is that the factory injectors are larger than the later 91.5 -93 intercooled models. I've read they are good to about 300hp if necessary.

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on December 23, 2012, 09:58 PM
Worked a little more on the intake today.

This is an exhaust flange I found from TTI exhaust. It is 1/2" thick laser cut with a 3" opening and holes 3" on center. Nice thing is it fits the Cummins intake without modification because even though the bolt holes are offset on the intake the larger bolt holes on the flange give just enough clearance. I wanted to keep the 3" intake diameter and it seems the only way to do that is build it. I eliminated the grid heater because there isn't enough room and this won't be driven in the winter.  I've never had trouble starting one of these down into the 20's without the grids on anyway.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121217_185433800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121217_185505800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121217_185525800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121217_184300800x600.jpg)

To make the intake I ordered this 3" mandrel bent elbow with a tight 3" radius.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_145710800x600.jpg)

Here is the elbow without any modifications.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_145653800x600.jpg)

I measured 3" to be taken off the flange side of the elbow and about the same amount off the intake tube that will connect to it.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_145752800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_162320800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_162301800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_162254800x600.jpg)

This is the elbow mocked up in place. Everything went together pretty well. I need to pick up some shorter metric bolts to secure the right side of the flange before welding it and the elbow together. Looks like it should flow pretty well. 

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_161908800x600.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20121223_161942800x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on January 04, 2013, 02:17 PM
Hi folks, sorry for the lack of progress. The winter deep freeze has officially set in and below freezing temps along with the holidays have slowed down the diesel swap.  :(  With some luck and higher temps I'll get back into the swing here soon. 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: 007 on January 04, 2013, 06:34 PM
i'm with you on that one, it  wasn't bad today here in eau claire hi 20s, been through your town many times, we call 61 the goat trail beats the heck out of my truck!! senic ride , just rough glad to see them fixing it.  like the pic beside the shed :D . i just reserved a camp site at otter lake by stanley wi. for a 9 day fishing trip in july. great project you got going.  can't wait till it in the 50s thats good working weather :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on January 04, 2013, 10:24 PM
I'm with ya. Freezing our buts off. We're running -5 -6 Celsius. Just getting over the flu and pneumonia. Getting cabin fever. Want to get out and work on the rig but that doesn't look like it's going to happen for a few months. $@!#@!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on January 20, 2013, 11:49 AM
Had a little warmer weather yesterday so I got the exhaust system mocked up.(didn't last long, it's 6 degrees as I type this  $@!#@! )

I need a couple more band clamps for the muffler and some hanger straps to wrap it up. The free 4" exhaust pieces I picked up worked out quite well. This is pretty close to where it will end up once the hangers are added. I put a 45 degree cut on the tip similar to the 3rd gen Dodge Cummins trucks. 

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130119_153726800x600_zps4356f525.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130119_153651800x600_zps43a2526e.jpg)

The Walker Muffler worked out nicely.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130119_153805800x600_zps8375b05b.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130119_153634800x600_zpsdfa2e68b.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130119_153619800x600_zpsd79b2517.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130119_153525800x600_zpsa1c95bdc.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130119_154206800x600_zpsd1a1054e.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on January 20, 2013, 12:33 PM
Hey WW  Ya got the angle on the end of the tail pipe backwards . It will act as a scoop that way .  Increasing air pressure going in the pipe (wile moving) The leading edge should stick out farthest  Frank
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on January 20, 2013, 12:45 PM
That's how Dodge did it on my '05 Cummins. i?? The pipe face will be parallel with the body when done so there won't be a scoop.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: audioguyinMI on January 20, 2013, 04:43 PM
This looks like a good donor - do you guys agree?



http://desmoines.craigslist.org/pts/3527217175.html

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on January 20, 2013, 05:15 PM
WOW D:oH! That looks like a score for somebody. Problem is your not done the conversion yet so we don't know how it works...Hurry up will ya. It's just a little cool out. :laugh:
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on January 20, 2013, 06:54 PM
The only bad thing about that donor is the 727 gear vendor setup will not give you enough of an overdrive with 4.56 gears.  Something in the 3.73 range would work well though.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: audioguyinMI on January 20, 2013, 07:09 PM
OH Right.  See?  I knew you'd done your homework on this.  Being as I have a '74 M400 (RM350) chassis, I've got the same rear end gear, yes?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on January 20, 2013, 07:20 PM
I would think you have 4.56 as well.   I have 33.6" tall tires with the RM400 chassis and the 4.56 gearing is just to steep as the stock Cummins only revs to about 2200 before de-fueling.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Oz on January 21, 2013, 08:51 AM
Okay, never heard that term.  What is "de-fueling"?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on January 21, 2013, 11:25 AM
Here is a rather in depth write up on how it works. From my understanding, the governor on the injection pump limits the maximum rpm and in order to do that the pump is designed to start cutting back the fuel supplied a few hundred rpm prior to the max rpm. There are ways to modify to maximum rpm and de-fueling points by changing parts within the pump.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/articles/articles/44/1/VE-Governed-speeddefueling-function/Page1.html (http://www.cumminsforum.com/articles/articles/44/1/VE-Governed-speeddefueling-function/Page1.html)

It seems that somewhere around 1800rpm is the "sweet spot" for efficiency while driving. The Cummins will run all day long at the factory governor speed but a loss in mileage will result. I know from my Cummins trucks that anything over 2000rpm causes a quick drop in mpg.

If one were to use a 727 automatic gear vendor setup with a 0.78 overdrive ratio and 4.56 gears the rpm at 55mph would be around 2100rpm assuming some torque converter slippage and a 33.6" tall tire. At 60mph would it be close to 2300rpm and the sweet spot of 1800rpm would occur at around 45-50mph. With a smaller tire like a M400 would have it gets even worse.

With 3.73 rear gearing 55mph would be about 1700 rpm and 60mph would occur at about 1850rpm. That is why I recommended this ratio if using a 727 gear vendor setup. One other point, Dodge built a Cummins and non overdrive 727 truck for the first couple years. The rear gear ratio in those was 3.07 and utilized a specially built Dana 70 that, unfortunately, will not interchange with our rigs. They changed to the 4 speed overdrive with a 0.69 overdrive ratio in 1991 and went to 3.54 and optional 4.10 rear gearing. This is the transmission I am using in the conversion.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on February 09, 2013, 09:28 PM
Quote from: Funrover on January 29, 2013, 01:38 PM
What a great conversion, that thing is going to drive like it never has!

Thanks! I hope it gets back on the road someday soon.  D:oH!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on February 09, 2013, 09:30 PM
A little more progress. Here is the welded up intake.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130127_151716800x600_zps9a14e1a3.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130127_151705800x600_zps81bbe47b.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130127_151627800x600_zps5135469b.jpg)

Bolted in place on the Cummins.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130127_152812800x600_zps64fc171b.jpg)

If you noticed in the previous picture I used a couple leftover shock sleeves to mount the throttle bracket using the original intake bolts. This was required to make up the height difference from removing the heater grid. The inside two holes just used standard metric bolts I bought at the hardware store.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130209_145416800x600_zps6102e6c0.jpg)

Here are the completed intercooler tubes with silicone connectors and clamps installed. I ended up running a bead of weld around the ends of each pipe and then ground them down to keep the boots from blowing off. I also sprayed some high temp clear coat on the pipes to keep them looking nice.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130209_165354800x600_zps90acf1e4.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130209_165702800x600_zps078b5a9b.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130209_165715800x600_zps2670bbee.jpg)

Here are the brackets I made out of angle iron for the intercooler mounting.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130209_161239800x600_zpse9c65c4c.jpg)

Tack welded them to the factory crossbar with the intercooler mounted in it's final position. I removed the intercooler and finished welding the brackets in. This worked out pretty well as the crossbar is bolted in so it can be removed for repairs and won't require any more work to take out. I'll clean this area up and paint everything before putting it back together.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130209_171639800x600_zps34020193.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on February 09, 2013, 11:06 PM
I'm getting excited reading all this...hurry up, would ya?  I wanna know how she performs in the real world...lol!

The work you have done so far is outstanding!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on February 10, 2013, 10:48 AM
You wouldn't listen to me OH NO you got everybody sitting on the edge of their seats waiting with baited breath in panting antisapation of your completion. Every bodies all ready searching on Craigs list for the same parts just in case. Get ready to run and hide when you finish your successful transplant. These guys will drive you crazy when your done. :)rotflmao
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: vegas39 on February 12, 2013, 07:38 PM
I find this thread pretty exciting, as I wanted to do this years ago to our Brave. I sold the Brave in 08 and bought a few Ford trucks with the old 6.9 and 7.3 IDI diesels. We now have an 89 Southwind with a 454 and I am seriously thinking about dropping one of the 6.9 motors into it. I've learned a few tricks over the last few years on how to get quite a bit more HP out of that motor and of course a turbo kit helps a lot also.
Granted, the 6.9 wouldnt be near the motor a 5.9 is but either way, it's a super strong motor and at the end of the day, we would have a diesel conversion.
Congratulations to your conversion, you have taken on what the rest of us have only dreamed about for years.
I cant wait to hear a vid of that thing running!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on February 13, 2013, 04:00 PM
Thanks, I would like to see someone do a 6.9/7.3 conversion. I've had some experience years ago with both 6.9 and 7.3 crew cab dually trucks. The 7.3 was a 91 model and a little nicer on the road simply because it had an overdrive transmission. The 6.9 was in a 86 model a 3 speed with 4.10's and was all done around 60mph. Both ran great and the 6.9 had close to 200,000 on it at the time.

I think a later 7.3 powerstroke would be a nice as well, not too sure what electronics are involved there.

I really hope this swap isn't scaring some people off. Some of the things I am doing can be done differently, easier, or really not at all.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on February 13, 2013, 04:14 PM
Hey your doing great don't fail me now. We're with you so far. Do'n a sweet job. Keep up the good work. :)clap
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: vegas39 on February 13, 2013, 07:12 PM
Quote from: Wantawinnie on February 13, 2013, 04:00 PM
Thanks, I would like to see someone do a 6.9/7.3 conversion. I've had some experience years ago with both 6.9 and 7.3 crew cab dually trucks. The 7.3 was a 91 model and a little nicer on the road simply because it had an overdrive transmission. The 6.9 was in a 86 model a 3 speed with 4.10's and was all done around 60mph. Both ran great and the 6.9 had close to 200,000 on it at the time.

I think a later 7.3 powerstroke would be a nice as well, not too sure what electronics are involved there.

I really hope this swap isn't scaring some people off. Some of the things I am doing can be done differently, easier, or really not at all.


Yeah, powerstroke would be cool but as you say, the electronics would be tough and I think thats what ruins a diesels dependability. I love having an engine that runs off of one wire!

My main truck has the 3 speed auto with 3:55's, not much better than the 4:10 setup. I was considering doing an E4OD swap into it but thats at the bottom of my list. A friend in California offered me a Gearvendors unit for 400 bucks and it already has the C6 tailpiece for it but I would have to buy the control unit for it. Saw some on ebay for around 300 bucks.

I absolutely love classic winnies and older diesel engines, what you're doing is one of the most awsome projects anybody could take on! Of course a person has to be the right type of breed to appreciate this sort of thing.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: vegas39 on February 19, 2013, 06:38 PM
Any more on the project? I know its gotta be getting close to running. I'm like a little kid under the Christmas tree, I keep checking this thread several times a day but nothing new lately!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on February 19, 2013, 08:41 PM
I'm out of town on vacation so the Winnie is on hold for a little while. :D
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on February 19, 2013, 10:28 PM
Holiday say what! On hold! What are we suppose to do? You can't go on holidays and leave us hanging. Nuts. D:oH! :laugh:
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on March 06, 2013, 11:07 PM
Where's the Beef?... :)rotflmao

Come on!  You are leaving us in WAY to much suspense!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on March 07, 2013, 11:32 PM
Sorry boys, I am back home but mother nature keeps dropping snowstorms and cold temps on us. It is supposed to start warming up soon. Don't worry, I want this thing running almost as bad as you guys. :laugh:

I finished up a punch list of things to complete last night, only a page and a half of legal size paper items to go! ???
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on March 11, 2013, 11:06 AM
Finished up the exhaust yesterday. Had to make some brackets to mount off the frame and used universal hangers and clamps. For the muffler and pipe connections I used stainless band clamps. They cost a little more but sure make a nice and removeable connection.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130310_193603Medium_zps194e9ded.jpg)

After that I started working on getting my underbody transmission cooler installed. This is a factory under bed mounted Dodge unit out of a 1992 Cummins that is self contained with its own wiring and thermostat.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130304_181527800x600_zps41ffcbf0.jpg)

Needs a little cleaning but otherwise a real nice piece from California.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130304_181549800x600_zps5a40f8cb.jpg)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130304_181615800x600_zps0f21ef49.jpg)

I mounted it to the side and rear of the transmission as there is no room closer to the front. The Cummins uses 1/2" lines for cooling, anybody have a source for that? I was thinking of just using rubber hose rated for transmissions. It will need to run up front to an additional cooler that will be in front of the radiator.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130310_193517Medium_zps3b7a1e1d.jpg)

I also started working out the air intake. I am using the original round Dodge air cleaner and filter. It will be modified a little to increase the airflow. My plan is to put it in this location in order to draw fresh air from the grill area. It will conflict with the radiator overflow tank so that will need to go. I do have a question on those. Does the location really matter as long as it is below the top of the tank? I've got a square tank off another Winnebago that will fit much better and it is in a totally different location up near the top of the radiator tank.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130310_194250Medium_zps10c3e390.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on March 11, 2013, 12:43 PM
Hi I do not think they have to be below the top of the top radiator tank  On my 1977 chev the overflow tank is mounted on the firewall as high as they could get it its hooked to the rad at the overflow hole where the cap opens  Frank
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on March 11, 2013, 12:50 PM
Thanks, I was hoping I could move it to a better place. The earlier cars and trucks just let it drip out on the ground but I would rather not do that.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on March 18, 2013, 11:48 PM
Made the plunge last week and ordered a lot of parts including some bling to keep an eye on the vitals. The bling are Autometer GS gauges and go pretty well with the original gauges in the Chieftain. Trans temp, boost, and pyrometer for now. The pyrometer measures exhaust gas temperatures in the manifold. Factory gauges still function for oil pressure and engine temperature. I am hoping to use the original tachometer with the use of a converter from Dakota Digital down the road.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130318_193349800x600_zps3f9b8d12.jpg)

Going to find a place to mount them in these pods somewhere convenient without poking holes in the mint dashpad.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130318_195202800x600_zps6952430f.jpg)

Optional factory gauges I was trying to match up with.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/10-12-2011077Small.jpg)

Along with these I also got the driveshaft done with a new carrier bearing and a new 1350 joint to match up with the Gear Vendor unit. Installed this yesterday. It came out of my D24 parts rig. Other than the new 1350 joint change it was a perfect fit in the D28 with the engine, transmission, and Gear Vendor setup.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130316_145626800x600_zps7a2b53e9.jpg)

Also, removed the radiator overflow tank, slid the original air cleaner assembly from the 1989 Dodge in, and it bolted right in to a factory frame hole. There is a metal catch on the top that still needs to be mounted but it is sitting where it will be. I will being doing some mods to the air cleaner to improve airflow and also pull clean air from the grill area because I don't want dust from the wheel well getting in. With that in place I ordered up some connectors and aluminum tubing to build the intake tube from Silicone Intakes. I've also got a big 10" X 13" X 2" thick tranny cooler with 1/2" ports and two electric engine fans on the way from them as well. A Hayden temperature switch will be controlling those.

The underbed tranny cooler with fan is finished being mounted under the frame to the driver side of the Gear Vendor unit. It was the only place with enough room in reach of the battery for power and close to the transmission ports. I will be running 1/2" barb fittings off the transmission to 1/2" rubber transmission line, from there to the front cooler, and then back to the frame cooler before heading back in the trans.

I'll keep plugging away......
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Lefty on March 19, 2013, 01:34 AM
To say I'm impressed would be an understatement.
Not only do you have an extremely rare rig, but you are upgrading the mechanicals far beyond any Ive seen done so far. (with the possible exception of the former member who stuffed a gorgeously chromed 440 into a D-18 Shorty.. or the guy who had that D21 converted to 4WD)

Seriously, dang nice work... I'd hate to see your final talley of the money you've spent on it when you get it finished (I'm lying.. we expect a full, detailed report!! lol), but you are sure headed in a direction that will end with one fine rig.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on March 19, 2013, 10:41 AM
Thanks Lefty, many a night laying awake working out the details of the swap. Being a rare one I am trying to not permanently change the original rig. For whatever reason, if someone(not me  ;) ) would want to convert it back to a 440 in the future that would be easily done.

I will have to take a look at the cost but it might not be too bad relatively speaking. A lot of the things probably would have had to be done anyway even if I kept the 440 to make it reliable. The transmission was toast so that needed a rebuild regardless of the engine. Belts, hoses, water pump, etc. would have all had to be replaced for me to trust it.

I got the Cummins truck for $1000 and sold the transmission and transfer case for $900, sold the engine cradle for $75, and still have the front and rear axles to sell for somewhere around $500 worst case. So I've got $25 in the diesel engine right now.

The Gear Vendor added some cost. Not nearly the price of a new one, less than half for sure.

The turbo and intercooler setup was probably the largest optional expense. If I would have chose to not intercool the rig and kept the factory non intercooled turbo easily a $1,000 could have been saved. A lot less work would have been involved as well. Just run a pipe from the intake to the turbo and your done. I wanted the option of more power if necessary and the intercooler and turbo will allow that.

I will do a tally when it is completed to reveal the total damage. ???   


Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on March 20, 2013, 10:41 PM
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on March 21, 2013, 11:30 AM
Worked on the intake design. The turbo has a 4" od inlet and the aircleaner is 4.5 od". It is really tight coming out of the turbo so I ordered a 3.5" aluminum pipe with a 45 degree bend and a 4" to 3.5" reducing coupler.

Here is the 3.5" pipe. Tape is where it needs to be shortened up.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap001Medium_zps4e48aa56.jpg)

Cut off and ready to go back in after a little filing to clean up the edge.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap002Medium_zpscf2cccbc.jpg)

Clears the oil filter.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap003Medium-1_zps5a325e53.jpg)

Another 3.5" to 4" coupler joins up with a straight 4" aluminum pipe 12" long.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap005Medium-1_zps99f397ff.jpg)

From the 4" pipe I used a 4" to 4.5" reducing 45 degree bend coupler to mate up with the air cleaner.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap008Medium-1_zpsc894a8b9.jpg)

Everything fit together pretty good by tilting the air cleaner on a slight angle.
(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap006Medium-1_zpsd9af45ff.jpg)

Installed the intercooler tube back up and everything looks pretty good with decent clearance.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap009Medium-1_zps06c1ab21.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on March 23, 2013, 11:10 PM
Installed the dual 1600 cfm fans today. Had to go with a pusher setup.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130323_135410800x600_zpsce5ab34b.jpg)

Installed the adjustable fan controller relay where the washer bottle use to be located. I need to wire it up yet but this spot seemed the best.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130323_135423800x600_zps1eee09d1.jpg)

Mounted the front transmission cooler on top of the lower crossmember and secured it to the upper cross brace with L brackets.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130323_152136800x600_zps6d7d9431.jpg)

Its a 30 row 2" thick cooler with 1/2" ports to match the Cummins line requirements.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130323_152148800x600_zps01905d17.jpg)

Before getting much further I wanted to make sure everything fit behind the grill. It looks good and I still have a little bit of room left over.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130323_155020800x600_zps61574a3e.jpg)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on March 24, 2013, 10:03 AM
WOW
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on March 27, 2013, 11:00 PM
Hurry up!  I want to see your road results...lol!

Awesome job so far!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 03, 2013, 04:16 PM
Thanks guys! I'm tryin'.....

Got the fans all wired up and funtioning and re-plumbed the tranny cooler a little. Also, re-mounted the front cooler with rubber bushings. I decided to use the tranny output line for the temp gauge. Used a tee and adapters for the sending unit. This should give a good indication of fluid temp out of the transmission. All the transmission lines are plumbed in and the frame mounted tranny cooler was simple to wire up with just positive and negative to the battery.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130328_184651Medium_zps6b280b8e.jpg)

The optional A/C line wire on the controller designed to kick in when the A/C clutch engages worked fine when I ran it to a 12v toggle switch. I used an existing hole from the old manual choke for the carb.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130328_185141Medium_zps88acb7c0.jpg)

Any advice on this one or have experience with toggle switch operation?

I want to run three manual overdrive options going up through the gears. First the 0.78 Gear Vendor, then the 0.69 A518, and finally the combo of both for a 0.54 ratio. I am thinking of eliminating the Gear Vendor foot switch and go with a toggle setup. I would like to be able to run through the gears without having to engage the foot switch, then simultaneously disengage the GV and throw a toggle on the A518 to go up a gear. I am thinking a double throw toggle switch might be easier. Wouldn't an off-on-on toggle allow me to switch "on" the gear vendor and when switched to the 2nd "on" position the GV would disengage and the A518 OD would kick in. To get the double overdrive the foot switch or another toggle could then be wired to engage the GV again. If they make a triple "on" switch that would be even better. On the way back down I could reverse the procedure shifting down through the gears.

I could also use a on-off-on toggle like the aux fuel rocker switches in our rigs (thinking about using some out of my parts Winnie to make this seem factory.) There are a few different ones in the parts rig that might work I think like the heater or wiper rockers as well.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ibdilbert01 on April 03, 2013, 10:30 PM

This is a super sweet setup!!!  Are you going to use a lock-up type torque converter?   If so how are you going to engage it?

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 03, 2013, 10:50 PM
No lockup converter on the diesel A518. They didn't get lockup until the 47RH came out in 1994. Good converters for those are big time pricey.

I bought an aftermarket non lockup converter though. Stall speed is a little lower than the factory unit to help with slippage and heat.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on April 04, 2013, 10:53 AM
Hi Very nice fabrication , One thing id reccomend is a inner fender liner for R/F wheel to help keep water spray (driveing in the rain) & road dirt and stones from pelting air filter . There are a lot of plastic inner fenders on late model wrecks in the junk yards That should not be to difficult to mount  Frank
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 04, 2013, 10:59 AM
That is a good idea. I am going to be running some sealed air ducts from the air cleaner to the radiator area for clean air but the cleaner would still be exposed. I've got some sheet aluminum that might make a nice shield in the wheelwell to keep water, mud, etc off it too. 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on April 05, 2013, 08:32 PM
You have no idea how interested I am in your project.  Still running strong with a 454 at 107K miles, but there will come a time when the engine will need to be rebuilt, and at that time I'll have to make a decision to convert to diesel or not.  I want to see your long term road results over the next couple of years.  So hurry up....lol!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 06, 2013, 06:51 PM
I hope it is a real dream on the road, we will see.

I am to the somewhat tedious point of running wiring, transmission lines, and all those little things to make it a clean, reliable, and safe swap.

I did get the turbo drain tube installed(which was interesting) by purchasing a 21" flexible metal drain tube from Cummins. It is for some other application but worked for this. Turbo oil feed line is installed as well.

The original big block 727 transmission filler tube dropped in the A518 and just took a little bending of the mount tab to fit the Cummins bolt pattern. Transmission should be ready for filling now.

Changed the oil filter and put in 12 quarts of Mobil 15W-40, still might need another quart or 2 yet once the filter is filled.

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Gary Eddy on April 08, 2013, 02:41 PM
Hi, I am enjoying your craftsmanship and problem solving. Regarding your GV and transmition switches, considering you will be using them often, it might be more comfortable to operate if you build a wall mounted extension of your left armrest. Then mount the switches and have them at your fingertips instead of having to reach for the dash to make gear changes.    Just a thought.

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 15, 2013, 12:51 AM
Thanks for the input Gary. I am still debating how to do the switches but I do want them to be located in a convenient place for sure.

Getting a little closer to the finish line. Yesterday I ran all new starter wiring. The Cummins uses much heavier cable than the 440 did. I went to Farm and Fleet and bought some 2/0 starter cable to go from the chassis battery to the original relay and then another short 2/0 cable from the relay to the starter. I was able to reuse the original solenoid wire as they were the same. Ran a heavy ground cable to the frame and the old Cummins turned over for the first time. :)clap

The torque converter to flexplate bolts turned out to be quite frustrating. I got all but one started without issue, however, the last one would not thread in. There is about 3/4" of space between the transmission adapter and the flex plate and you have to reach up in to turn the bolts...not fun. I tried for several hours and finally, in desperation, grabbed my drill and hole saw to cut a small access hole in the transmission adapter to see what was going on behind it.

Turned out the threads on the torque converter were messed up.  $@!#@! The torque converter bolts are fine threaded and I needed a thread tap to try and clean it up. So off to the hardware store I go only to find out they close at 4 o'clock and it's 10 minutes past. Back to the shop and luckily I found the correct thread tap in the tool chest(have no idea why as I don't remember buying it). The tap worked and the last bolt was tightened up finally! Sure beats having to pull the tranny back out to fix it. :)

Next up was the vacuum line to the brakes. I used the original hose from the Dodge truck that went from the brake booster to the vacuum pump and ran it down along the frame. I used the original intake manifold line from the 440 and shortened it up and then connected it with the rear vacuum line going to the dual brake boosters. Hooked it all together and the vacuum for the brakes is done.

Next step is to get the fuel lines run and wire up the alternator and voltage regulator.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Oz on April 15, 2013, 08:17 PM
Soooo close.... we can smell it!!!!  Nothing like just one #$%@ bolt to throw a wrench into things, eh?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 16, 2013, 02:26 PM
One bolt, one afternoon. That's why these kinds of projects always take longer than you expect.

I was going to start filling the transmission when I decided to change a few things. I really wanted to get a transmission temp from the pan to see how the coolers do compared to the "hot" reading coming out the front line. I looked around and finally decided on the B & M 10280 aluminum finned transmission pan. It has a temp probe port and a drain plug which will be handy. Picked it up from Summit Racing for $140 and ordered another sending unit for my transmission temp gauge. I'll just wire up a toggle switch so readings from either location can be read on the same guage as needed.

The Mopar transmission pan gasket (#2464324AC) is supposed to be a high quality(non cork) piece so I am picking one of those up along with a new O-ring for the filler tube (#6030608). I don't want a bunch of leaks from old seals if I can help it.

Once the pan gets here in a couple days I will post some photos. The description from Summits website says there isn't a temp port but I confirmed that is wrong and there actually is one. This pan would work on the 727's as well if anyone if looking for a upgrade or at least a drain plug.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DonD on April 16, 2013, 06:29 PM
 :)clap   On the edge of my seat.........  :)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on April 16, 2013, 10:12 PM
I've got to say, I LOVE having a drain plug on our transmission pan!  A previous owner installed it, and did a nice job...the plug bolt is even magnetic, so it traps metallic particles...and he through another magnet in the pan while he was at it.  When I changed the fluid and filter last July, it was a breeze, and the magnets thankfully were clean of any large metallic particles...just a very small amount of metallic sludge.

What this means is that annually I'll be changing my transmission fluid religiously.  Yep, you don't drain it all from the plug unless you drain the torque converter as well...but its way better than not changing it at all!  I won't bother with a new filter for at least 5 more years, which means I won't have to take the pan off to do the fluid change. 

I had a 72 VW Bus with a Porche engine and automatic transmission a long while back.  It came stock with a drain plug AND a screw on filter...if I recall correctly, it used a standard Fram HP-1 filter.  Sweet setup!  I always wondered why other auto makers didn't follow suit with a drainplug and external filter to make it easier, and also always wondered why VW abandoned the design.  Probably controlled obselesence, or however the heck you spell that when your spellcheck isn't working...lol! 

By the way, I also went with a rubber type gasket...and cleaned my transmission pan down to bare shiny metal when I did the job last July.  The transmission pan was gross and covered in a thick layer of oil, grease, road grime, and what appeared to be undercoating.  It is still bright and shiny almost a year later with no oil or grease on it...guess those gaskets work pretty well!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 17, 2013, 06:45 PM
Thought I should post a few pics of some of the parts I used. This is the flexible metal drain tube that goes from the turbo back into the engine block. This one is Cummins part #3934084. This was about the only way I could come up with the proper bends and angle without getting into custom braided hoses and fittings.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap001Medium_zpsdfc67eca.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/Cumminsswap001Medium_zpsdfc67eca.jpg.html)

Here are the heavy duty 2/0 starter cables and the old ones to compare. The Cummins takes a lot of cranking power to turn over.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/Cumminsswap002Medium_zps41975db0.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/Cumminsswap002Medium_zps41975db0.jpg.html)

I bought three of these little 3" intake flanges. I am going to use these and some type of tubing to draw fresh air from the grill area into the air cleaner housing.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130329_173834Medium_zpsf5e9c17f.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130329_173834Medium_zpsf5e9c17f.jpg.html)

According to UPS tracking my new transmission pan should be here tommorow, then I can get the transmission filled and ready to go.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 18, 2013, 10:10 PM
Here are the pictures of the B & M transmission pan. Looks very nice. :)ThmbUp

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184318_zps40d5aa65.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184318_zps40d5aa65.jpg.html)

It does have both the drain plug and temperature sender port.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184306_zpsfcd1531b.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184306_zpsfcd1531b.jpg.html)

Other items included are the longer bolts, new filter, filter extensions, drain plug, temperature sender plug (if you don't have a gauge), and a tranny gasket.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_185028_zpsdb4f6f1c.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_185028_zpsdb4f6f1c.jpg.html)

Here is the extra sending unit for my tranny temp gauge. Comes with multiple adapters.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_185051_zps30fdece0.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_185051_zps30fdece0.jpg.html)

This is the reusable Mopar transmission gasket that is superior to the cork style gaskets.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184410_zps093a7025.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184410_zps093a7025.jpg.html)

One other important item that is needed is this little wire plug. This is what connects to overdrive solenoid down on the Dodge transmission. The overdrive won't work without this little guy. I got this off a 1991 Dodge truck with a non lockup transmission. It doesn't have to be a diesel transmission. This is a two wire connector and the later units with lockup will have a different three wire connector.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184508_zpsbfbfd84b.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130418_184508_zpsbfbfd84b.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 21, 2013, 04:19 PM
Installed the new transmission pan, put on new heater hoses and heater valve, filled the coolant system, and topped off the power steering. Also, installed an upgraded larger fuel filter with water separator which eliminated the Dodge water sensor adapter and wiring. With the new filter a different threaded fitting is needed from Cummins.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130420_113711800x600_zps1c383666.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130420_113711800x600_zps1c383666.jpg.html)

I used the radiator coolant bottle out of the donor Winnebago and installed it behind the radiator. Looks like it is an aftermarket bottle but it fits well.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_104102800x600_zps8679de54.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_104102800x600_zps8679de54.jpg.html)

As it is getting very crowded in the engine compartment I had to get creative with the windshield washer bottle placement. The original bottle is some oddball made in England and the pump is shot so I decided to use something a little more common. I had a bottle out of a '76 Dodge D200 which is fairly easy to find and the washer pump is still available.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_112623800x600_zps7d06a53c.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_112623800x600_zps7d06a53c.jpg.html)

When I first bought the intercooler I wondered if these little mounts would come in handy. Turns out they did.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_104132800x600_zps31d13bda.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_104132800x600_zps31d13bda.jpg.html)

I cut a piece of 3/4" square tubing to length and drilled some mounting holes.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_104155800x600_zps4e10bd8a.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_104155800x600_zps4e10bd8a.jpg.html)

Added a piece of tubing heading back towards the radiator.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_115315800x600_zps5d4f5fab.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_115315800x600_zps5d4f5fab.jpg.html)

Welded up a mounting plate to attach the bottle and then welded the plate to the piece of tubing.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_112635800x600_zps41b8fbb8.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_112635800x600_zps41b8fbb8.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_112648800x600_zps787ab154.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_112648800x600_zps787ab154.jpg.html)

Fits well and has clearance from the radiator and enough to add fluid as needed.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_121650800x600_zps8f515017.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_121650800x600_zps8f515017.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_121704800x600_zps55014bb3.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_121704800x600_zps55014bb3.jpg.html)

Painted it up and ready to install once I get a new washer pump for it.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_133249800x600_zps0efd71f6.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_133249800x600_zps0efd71f6.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_133953800x600_zps2b9d32fa.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130421_133953800x600_zps2b9d32fa.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on April 21, 2013, 07:24 PM
Hi I cant really tell by the pics but not a good idea to block any air flow over radiator . ? Frankj
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on April 21, 2013, 08:33 PM
Wow that looks really good!  I need to pick myself up an arc welder one of these days and hone my skills on some scrap metal.  I used to be pretty good with a stick welder...way WAY back in high school shop class!  Anyone know if a 120 volt stick welder will weld anything worth welding, like projects like the one above, or parts on my Jeep frame, etc.?  The one I used was 220, but access to that voltage is VERY limited for us out here on the road.

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 21, 2013, 08:40 PM
It's above the radiator core. I am going to build shrouds around the top and both sides of the radiator to maximize the air flow going through the radiator.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 21, 2013, 09:00 PM
Quote from: ClydesdaleKevin on April 21, 2013, 08:33 PM
Wow that looks really good!  I need to pick myself up an arc welder one of these days and hone my skills on some scrap metal.  I used to be pretty good with a stick welder...way WAY back in high school shop class!  Anyone know if a 120 volt stick welder will weld anything worth welding, like projects like the one above, or parts on my Jeep frame, etc.?  The one I used was 220, but access to that voltage is VERY limited for us out here on the road.

Kev


Hey Kev,

Everything I've done on this swap has been with a cheap 110V wire feed from Harbor Freight. I've got a big Miller wire feed but this one does fine on lighter stuff. Don't know if it will penetrate enough for frame work though.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on April 21, 2013, 11:45 PM
Thats why I'm thinking stick welder.  More penetration.  I've used a 120 wire feed, and they suck for frame work...any thicker metal.  Wondering if the arc welder stick welders have the same problem in 120, or can dig deep enough with a slow hand.

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 01, 2013, 12:40 AM
Still working away on the details. Once I get the alternator wiring figured out that should conclude the adventures in wiring for the most part.

I've ran the Gear vendor wiring and mounted the control box under the dash.

Eliminated the 2 ammeters as they will not work with the 120 amp Cummins alternator. By rearranging the original dash layout I was able to use the extra space to install the Autometer gauges in the existing Winnebago dash. It really cleans up the area and it is neat seeing boost, pyrometer, and trans temp gauges in a factory dash. Turns out the original Voltmeter was broken from someone tightening it during installation. The entire face is broken away from the gauge and the readings are way off. I got a new Autometer Voltmeter ordered and will get some pics of the new dash setup.

I also decided to eliminate the electric fuel shutoff solenoid on the Cummins injection pump. This solenoid is what shuts down the engine. By removing the small spring and plunger inside the solenoid I now can manually shut down the engine with a pull cable.(just like a older tractor if any of you are familiar with the setup) I went this route because the solenoids can fail and leave you stranded, the constant power to elecric circuit may pose a problem with the older ignition switches, and new solenoids are over $150. The pull cable was $10 at Farm and Fleet and is pretty foolproof. When you want the stop the engine just pull the cable and shut off the ignition switch.

This is the port for the solenoid once it is removed. You can see the diesel fuel in there yet.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130427_095425Medium_zpsc5aa75d3.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130427_095425Medium_zpsc5aa75d3.jpg.html)

This is the spring and plunger that comes out. Just put the remaining plug back in the hole to seal it up.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130427_095417Medium_zpsf3a9f26f.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130427_095417Medium_zpsf3a9f26f.jpg.html)

Oil gauge and water temp gauges are hooked up and working.

The speedometer never worked so I took the cables out. Both were twisted off on the ends. I don't know if the cruise control failed and ruined them or what happened. Luckily my parts Winnie had a perfect main cable that was long enough to reach down under the rig to the Gear Vendor speed sensor cable that controls the overdrive electonics. Before hooking it up I tested the cable and speedometer with a drill and the speedometer works fine. :)ThmbUp

Today I started to tackle dropping the rear fuel tank. I need to make sure all the gas is out, check the inside of the tank, and the condition of the hoses. I also have to run a diesel return line back to it as well. I've got it all loosened and ready to come out but it is a tight fit and I didn't have time to finish tonight.

Hopefully, I am not too far away from trying to fire this thing up and check to see if anything leaks, moans, or groans.



 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on May 01, 2013, 03:08 PM
Hi wanna i need an opion on my 77 gas tank i eliminated the vent (a short hose with a check ball in it And ya it would leak if tank was filled to the brim ) Then i used this outlet wich i drilled out to full line size (was just a small hole in a plug in the metal fitting) For the fuel return from the TBI setup My Question is should i try to find a vented cap or do you think the return will handle it Also the generator fuel supply line should be empty as i shut off the small electric pump wich drains the carburator so no worries about carb gummy. Wich i just thought of what are you doing for Genny fuel ? Frank
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 01, 2013, 06:49 PM
I would go with a vented cap. Back in High School I converted a '82 Monte Carlo from diesel to gas and there was no vent in the tank.  Being young and broke I just turned the original cap out one turn and it vented fine.

I am using the front auxiliary fuel tank for the generator. My main tank is 50 gallons so it should be fine with the diesel for driving range.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 02, 2013, 12:28 PM
Dropped the fuel tank yesterday in order to fully drain the gas and run the new fuel lines. I got an additional 5 gallons out of the tank after siphoning it dry from the pickup tube. There is a bend in the fill tube and some baffling in the tank so I couldn't siphon from the filler. It needed to come out anyway to check it over. The sending unit is to the left, the top tube was the engine feed, hole directly below was the carbon canister line, and the generator feed is on the right.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_152023Medium_zps93224262.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_152023Medium_zps93224262.jpg.html)

I will be using the 2nd pickup tube for the return line and plumbing the generator to the auxiliary fuel tank instead. Pickup tubes are 1/2" lines with the generator tube an inch shorter so it wouldn't run the tank dry.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_151950Medium_zps0279bd6b.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_151950Medium_zps0279bd6b.jpg.html)

Here is the nice and messy surprise tucked up in the framerail. Some little critters had a nice home in the past. There was a bunch on top of the tank as well. Most of it ended up on me when the tank came down. D:oH!

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_134927Medium_zps1eb50928.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_134927Medium_zps1eb50928.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_134919Medium_zps5bb86b73.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_134919Medium_zps5bb86b73.jpg.html)

The tank is in good shape on the inside with no visible rust. I wired brushed and scraped the outside down, applied a coat of Rustoleum primer, and two coats of Rustoleum gloss black. I will be running new 3/8" steel lines up to the diesel, the old fuel supply line will feed the generator, and the emission line from the carbon canister will serve as the diesel return line.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_201244Medium_zps24e1facf.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_201244Medium_zps24e1facf.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_201330Medium_zpse5ad1317.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130501_201330Medium_zpse5ad1317.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 02, 2013, 05:33 PM
Here is the new dash setup with the Autometer gauges. I removed the ammeter's and put the boost and pyrometer gauges in their place. Because I will only be using one fuel tank for the diesel I removed the auxiliary tank guage and moved the main fuel gauge up where the original broke voltmeter was. That left two open spaces along the bottom row where the trans temp and new volt gauge went. I am going to repurpose the fuel selector switch for reading the dual trans temp senders in the line and pan. Perhaps down the road I will replace the oil pressure, water temp, and fuel gauge with autometers to make everything the same. The originals work fine so not a top priority and the guages go pretty well together IMO.

BTW: you can see my engine shut off pull cable in the lower right corner. Took out the manual fan switch that I had there and will locate it somewhere else.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130502_153351Medium_zpsf887b185.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130502_153351Medium_zpsf887b185.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130502_153521Medium_zps7bfaa5f8.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130502_153521Medium_zps7bfaa5f8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 02, 2013, 07:48 PM
I love the big "HALF" on the gas gauge!!!   :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

Keep it comin'!

Awesome job so far!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 02, 2013, 10:47 PM
Looking good.  Glad it is working out in your favor. - Dave
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 02, 2013, 11:45 PM
Thanks again for the help with the alternator wiring questions.  :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 05, 2013, 11:55 PM
The alternator wiring is finished. I used the factory wiring from the Dodge truck which included the correct fusible link for the application. I also separated the voltage regulator wiring out of the Dodge harness and used it. For mounting the voltage regulator I used the original Winnebago bracket that mounted on the rear of the 440. It mounted nicely on the frame of the engine compartment surround under the floor. I ran the wiring in plastic loom around the rear of the engine to keep it away from the exhaust and engine heat. It worked out well using U brackets insulated with rubber and screwed up into the floor. Nice to have that done. Thanks Dave!

Next was routing the fuel lines. I bought 20' of 3/8" steel brake line in 5' sections and 3 connectors. After looking things over it seemed easier to route it on the driver side frame rail instead of the passenger side. In order to mount it I bought a bunch of 3/8" rubber line clamps and some L brackets. Using existing frame holes the L brackets were bolted to the frame and the line mounted to them with the clamps. I did use a pipe bender to make a few bends at the tank and engine side. Everything in between was a fairly straight shot and the finished line ended up about 6" from the fuel pump line.

For the return line I marked out on the original passenger side carbon canister line where to bend the line and bring it over to the driver side. It had to be removed from the line mounts and slid back, then the 90 degree bend was made to jump over to the driver side and then another 90 degree bend to head forward to the engine fuel pump. The line was then put back in, mounted with some of the rubber clamps, and it came about 3" from the fuel return line on the engine.

Back on the tank side I had to buy a new 3/8" 90 degree brass fitting to screw in the pickup tube for the engine feed. The original fitting and pickup tube from the generator worked fine for the return side line.

For the generator gas feed I unhooked the fuel tank lines for the main and auxiliary tanks at the transfer valve and connected them together with a small run of rubber hose. The line going to the rear tank now serves as the gas feed line to the generator.

Here is a pic of the gas tank going back in. I slid it back under the rig on a piece of cardboard to keep from scratching up the paint and connected up the new fuel lines with rubber hose. After it was in the right spot I used some 2 x 2 wood blocking and lifted it up far enough to get the floor jack under it. The hardest part was hooking up the sending unit wire as I could barely reach it. Once the tank was lifted into place with the jack the tanks straps were tightened back up. Finally, the filler and breather hoses were hooked back up.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130505_102639800x600_zps330e900d.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130505_102639800x600_zps330e900d.jpg.html)

So, the list is pretty short on things to be done before firing it up. I have to fill the tank with diesel and prime the lines and pump, check over and secure any wiring to make sure it is safe, hook up and secure the wiring for the new gauges, fill the Gear Vendor with fresh fluid, install the air cleaner element, and hook up the factory overdrive wiring. With any luck I might get it running in a couple days and get the transmission fluid in to see if the old girl will move under its own power.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on May 06, 2013, 08:10 AM
Man can't thank you enough for taking the time to bring us along on this amazing adventure. It's challenging enough doing the work without stopping every five minutes to take a picture. As has been stated before many have thought and wondered about doing a project of this magnitude. I'm sure you have inspired many wanting to fallow in your foot steps. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 06, 2013, 09:12 AM
Outstanding!!!   :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap

I can't wait to hear how she runs and moves under her own power...and read about your maiden voyage!

SWEET!!!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 06, 2013, 12:10 PM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on May 06, 2013, 08:10 AM
Man can't thank you enough for taking the time to bring us along on this amazing adventure. It's challenging enough doing the work without stopping every five minutes to take a picture. As has been stated before many have thought and wondered about doing a project of this magnitude. I'm sure you have inspired many wanting to fallow in your foot steps. :)ThmbUp

Thanks LJ, it actually motivates me to document the process and have some moral and technical support. It hasn't been the easiest job and there are steps that could have been done differently or easier I am sure. Hopefully, in the end, it will be a realiable and efficient family adventure rig.  :)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 06, 2013, 12:12 PM
Quote from: ClydesdaleKevin on May 06, 2013, 09:12 AM
Outstanding!!!   :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap

I can't wait to hear how she runs and moves under her own power...and read about your maiden voyage!

SWEET!!!

Kev

Trust me, I am quite anxious for that day to come as well.  ;)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on May 06, 2013, 12:36 PM
The way you've gone about it is the right way and lets face it hindsight is always 20/20. Aside from a little tweeking once you get her up and running I think your going to be the envy of all us old gas pushers. Now step back take a look at all you've accomplished, have a couple of cold ones, take a deep breath duck your head,lean your shoulder into er and go for it and get-er-done.>GRIN<
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 06, 2013, 07:45 PM
I'm a new member and just joined because of your taking on this project. I just bought a 1982 Itasca 30 footer with a chevy 454 and turbo 400 from a friend that has had it since new. It's my first RV and I want to do this on mine now. It only has 47,000 miles on it and I am following your thread every day for updates. You should be very proud of the vision you have and the commitment you have placed in it. WOW!!! I'm so impressed how you made this happen. I want to ask you like a million questions. I have a 1995 Dodge Ram 4X4 with a 5.9 and auto trans with 225,000. It may become my donor vehicle for this amazing project. I can't wait for you to start it up and give us the details. Thank You for sharing this with us. I may be pulling on your hear soon.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 07, 2013, 12:12 AM
Welcome to the site!

Got some good news and some bad news

Good news is I got the fuel lines bled, finished a few wiring details, cranked over the starter and she came to life.  :)clap  I tested the pull stop cable and it shut down immediately. Fired it back up and it was idling with 40 psi for oil pressure. :)ThmbUp

Bad news is I must be getting air in the line somewhere or possibly the fuel pump is weak as it quit after running nicely for a minute or so.  :'(   I am guessing it ran the fuel filter dry and shut down.  I've got to get fluid in the transmission before running it more so I might just try running it off a small fuel can and see if there is air getting in the lines going to the tank. It was late so I called it a day but it was sweet for about a minute. :)

P.S. Since it technically ran I changed my profile from 440 to Cummins. :D

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on May 07, 2013, 10:56 AM
Congratulations!!  Houston We Have IGNITION !!! :)ThmbUp Frank
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on May 07, 2013, 12:48 PM
Hot Dam, Now ain't that SPECIAL. WOW! Are you going to be able to get your chest through the door. :)clap CONGRATULATIONS  :)clap She's going to need a little tweaking but that's to be expected. WOW fantastic.Well Done. :)rotflmao
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 07, 2013, 09:53 PM
IT LIVES!!!  MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Had to add in the Frankenstein reference there... :)rotflmao

Now get it tweaked and let us know the road results already... :laugh:

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 07, 2013, 10:03 PM
Way to go. I bet that one minute of running time made it feel like you just landed on the moon. Congratulations " Cummins" you did it and I'm smiling from ear to ear for you. I think we all were holding our breath as you turned the key. Don't sweat the air leak it's gonna be something simple to find with a little soapy water in a spray bottle. I so excited for you I will not be able to sleep tonight. I think I crack open a beer to toast your victory. KUDOS to you!!! You Did it man.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 08, 2013, 11:12 AM
Thanks guys, the feeling of joy is turning to frustration.

Pulled the feed line off the lift pump and it was bone dry. So I bought a new lift pump and running off a 5 gallon pail to isolate any air in the system. Still getting a bunch of air at the injectors and it won't fire. Hopefully, a mechanic friend of mine can come over to help this afternoon as it is hard to crank and crack injectors at the same time. Whatever you do don't run a diesel out of fuel. It sucks and is precisely what I was hoping to avoid. $@!#@!

I'll keep you posted.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: oilmaninpowell on May 08, 2013, 12:07 PM
I didn't read the beggining of the story to closely. Are you familiar with this engine? Your probably more familiar than me. It does take a while to purge the air out of the pump and lines. Even when you prime the filter first. Once it hits that air bubble you just keep cranking steady. It takes about 26 seconds and then it will fire up.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 08, 2013, 04:11 PM
Woo hoo, it's running again. :)clap

My friend came over and we bled it until nearly all the air was gone. Still wouldn't run but acted like it wanted to go. Turned out the idle adjustment was too low. Pulled back on the throttle lever and it finally fired off. Runs good but a little afraid to hook up the rear tank now. It won't run very far on a 5 gallon can though.  ??? 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 08, 2013, 05:33 PM
You're almost there!!!  Can't wait for the maiden voyage report!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DonD on May 08, 2013, 05:39 PM
 :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 08, 2013, 06:21 PM
I just about forgot, I need to start worrying about insurance and AAA coverage now. I guess that is a good problem to have.  :)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 08, 2013, 09:15 PM
Wonder if you can pressurize the tank with an air hose and if that would bleed the fuel line from the tank to the pump. Then crack open the fitting to the pump to release the air in the line. I cant wait to find out what mileage you are getting in your new rig.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 08, 2013, 10:16 PM
Exactly what I was going to try doing. Set the regulator down to about 10 psi and have a helper pressurize the tank while I wait for the air to purge and the hook it up. Last step is pumping the primer lever on the pump and crack the 10mm bleeder screw open on the fuel filter housing line.

Contemplating a electric pump back by the tank as well. My mechanic friend mentioned that if for no other reason but to help bleed the system if the need arises.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 09, 2013, 07:01 AM
Would you need to clamp off the return line so pressure would build or just let it flow back to the tank. I think clamping it off would not hurt and assure the tank pressure is pressing fuel just through the feed line. I would be there as a helper just to check out the project but I'm down south a bit in Virginia. Good Luck.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 09, 2013, 08:21 AM
I don't think that is necessary. As long as the air doesn't get to the injection pump it should be fine. The lift pump has a manual lever on it and there is a bleeder screw on the filter. Also, the return line should help send air back to the tank and out of the system. There was a lot of air coming out the return when we were bleeding it before cracking the injectors.

The injection pump has to build enough pressure to pop the injectors. Any air in the pump means no pop of the injectors and it won't run.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 09, 2013, 08:57 PM
That sounds like you have it licked. I like the manual cable you wired for a shut off. COOL STUFF. Can't wait to hear when you have it on the road. I hope to do this on my 82 Itasca but I'm not sure what my mileage would be if I did the conversion. I have a 454 with a turbo 400 and a 4:26 rear. I checked out the Vendor Gear for the Cummins 5.9 and 4 speed automatic and almost feel out of my chair from the sticker shock. I'm trying to figure out how many miles I would have to drive to recoup the $3500.00.
 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 09, 2013, 11:59 PM
I gave $750 for mine shipped from Ohio with a rebuilt 727 trans attached. That is the only reason I have one. I just changed the fluid out in it today in fact.

The standard overdrive automatic should do fine by itself. I am hoping for 14mpg and expecting 12-13mpg. The 500 mile road trip home with the 440 was in the 6mpg range. The aerodynamics and speed are the biggest factors. I'd guess you are somewhere around 8mpg with your rig.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 10, 2013, 07:21 AM
Man I wished I had your luck in finding one that affordable. What do you think about the school bus 6 speed Allison transmission. Would that give better gas mileage? I've read that they are very dependable and the Dodge Ram truck trans always needs to be rebuilt. My donor truck is a 4x4 and I would need to remove the transfer case somehow. I want to do this once and seeing what you have done it could be a pain to drop a trans and reinstall.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 10, 2013, 08:51 AM
I've had no experience with the Allison's. Are they electronically shifted? The big thing with the Dodge trans is heat and lugging it in overdrive. I was limited in space above the transmission as the coach floor was right there. If the Allison is much taller or has a deeper transmission adapter that moves the bell housing back the floor and support structure would need modification.

Why not just leave the transfer case? I was going to do that for a creeper gear until the gear vendor came up. Nice for pulling out a boat at the ramp or maybe some maneuvering in campgrounds.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 10, 2013, 03:31 PM
I think the Allison in the early 94 and 95 school bus is non-electronic but are 6 speed. I'm not sure of the gear ratio but I believe they would have to be low to pull the weight. I didn't know I could use any of the transfer case for a creeper gear. I just thought it was dead weight without having it connected to anything besides the transmission. Would be cool to make a 4x4 RV but I think converting all the suspension would be more than I would take on. I only paid $200 for the RV so if I spend a little in it I will hopefully be able to get it back out if I ever sell it. I'm working with a budget and it needs rubber all around and that's something I want to buy new with warranty. Do you know how hard it is to disconnect the chasis from body. I was hoping to set mine on stands and roll out the chasis and do the conversion. I did that with a 1985 Toyota 4X4 pickup and put in a chevy 350 V8 with a turbo 350 trans sure made things a lot easier.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Oz on May 10, 2013, 05:17 PM
I swear, when you drive it successfully the first time, we're going have something like a Superbowl party!   :)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 10, 2013, 08:19 PM
Yep!  We need a big diesel conversion party...that does NOT happen during the months of August and September so we can be there too!!! :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 10, 2013, 11:15 PM
There will be some celebrating when this is finally done!  :D

Today I topped off the engine oil with 2 more quarts of Mobil 15W-40 making a grand total of 14 quarts.

After that it was time for the transmission fluid, there were 8 quarts in the transmission from yesterday. I started it up and went through the gears. Added two more quarts and went through the gears. By now the old girl was moving back and forth.  :)clap Added 2 more quarts again and it was moving quicker. Put in 2 more quarts and it backed out of the shop under its own power.  :)ThmbUp  After warming it up it looks like another 1/2 quart should do it making the grand total of about 14 1/2 quarts. I had two leaks at the transmission port fittings that needed resealing. Took care of that and then drove it around the lot a little to see how it acted.

There was a bunch of smoke in the rig from all the diesel fuel that leaked down the head, exhaust manifold, and block while priming the system. That finally burned off after about a 1/2 hour of run time. I let it run for quite awhile and brought it up to temperature and the thermostat opened up. Without the fans running it leveled off around 200 degrees after that. Kicked the fans in and it dropped down to a little above 160 degrees according to the temp gauge.(the temp guage is not the best layout IMO as the temp scale is a little weird) It was 60 degrees today so not really a good indicator of typical summer temps. Will have to see how that goes as the temps increase.

Oil pressure never dropped below 30 psi after warmup. The other good news is the power steering doesn't leak and the vacuum pump seems to actuate the hyrdo vac braking system fine. Unfortunately, the master cylinder leaked down on the rear brakes so that will need to be rebled.

Overall a good day. Still have some things to do before hitting the road for a test run but at least it is moving again. :)     

It's running in this picture after moving out of the shop.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130510_150644800x600_zps7b1435ee.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130510_150644800x600_zps7b1435ee.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 11, 2013, 07:07 AM
I call SHOTGUN.
HAPPY,HAPPY,HAPPY.
You did it !!!!!
Congrats
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on May 11, 2013, 08:07 AM
WOW!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 11, 2013, 11:11 PM
Awesome!  I hope your first trip is not only successful, but long enough to be give us some real time real life road data...lol!

LOVE it!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Lefty on May 12, 2013, 04:15 AM
Congratulations!!
I just have to say, that is such a pretty Winnebago. The body and paint are in such good condition.
You have done an amazing job on this conversion. I'm a mechanic, but I have very limited experience working with diesels. I could do the fabrication and the physical swap.. as far as making new mounts and brackets, and getting the engine sitting on them. But I don't have near enough knowledge to do everything needed to get it running. I've been reading your posts, and following along best I could even though a lot of it was over my head...lol But I thank you for teaching me a little bit about what would be required to do a swap like this.
It's still beyond my ability, but at least now I've got a better understanding about diesels.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 12, 2013, 09:54 AM
Quote from: ssapmoc on May 10, 2013, 03:31 PM
I didn't know I could use any of the transfer case for a creeper gear. I just thought it was dead weight without having it connected to anything besides the transmission. Do you know how hard it is to disconnect the chasis from body. I was hoping to set mine on stands and roll out the chasis and do the conversion.

Meant to respond earlier but got busy.

On the transfer case, you would basically use it as is. Just leave out the front drive shaft.  For operation on the highway you would put it in 2wd high like normal. In situations where the low range is needed just stop and put it in 4 low as you would in the truck. The front flange will spin but it won't affect anything not being connected to a drive shaft. 4 High wouldn't be used for anything.

I can't help much in regard to removing the body. A lot of my fabricating was to accommodate fitting around body constraints in the engine compartment and transmission area. Those items would need to be in place to make it work.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 12, 2013, 10:14 AM
Quote from: Im_Still-Lefty on May 12, 2013, 04:15 AM
Congratulations!!
I just have to say, that is such a pretty Winnebago. The body and paint are in such good condition.
You have done an amazing job on this conversion. I'm a mechanic, but I have very limited experience working with diesels. I could do the fabrication and the physical swap.. as far as making new mounts and brackets, and getting the engine sitting on them. But I don't have near enough knowledge to do everything needed to get it running. I've been reading your posts, and following along best I could even though a lot of it was over my head...lol But I thank you for teaching me a little bit about what would be required to do a swap like this.
It's still beyond my ability, but at least now I've got a better understanding about diesels.

Thanks Lefty!

It has been a challenging project. I had hoped the conversion process would take some of the questions out of a swap like this. As every chassis and body style have some differences there will be variations on what is needed. Hopefully,  the general theme and scope of what was done prove helpful if anyone decides to go with a diesel.

It was much more involved than a standard engine swap, maybe that is already apparent.  ;)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on May 12, 2013, 01:16 PM
I guess you've all ready gathered the gang has been pretty excited about this project and you've done a stellar job taking us step by step through the hole project.I can't thank you enough. Folks have been talking about a project like this for as long as I can remember.What you've done so far is show many of us the We possibly could take on a project like this and succeed. We can't wait to here how she runs and the kind of mileage you get with her and hopefully you will consider sharing what a project like this might cost one of us. Well done and good luck. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: M & J on May 12, 2013, 04:26 PM
And take a video of her running and being driven and post it on YouTube.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ssapmoc on May 12, 2013, 05:17 PM
Thanks for that info Wannawinnie. I not sure if I would be able to make it work with the shifter location being the problem. I think the inside motor access box would be square in the way. I'm going to take a measurement from the rear of the block to the shifter location in the floor and see what I might be able to come up with. I look forward to reading about your test run. I really want to find out what kind of mileage you are getting and what rpm the vendor gear is keeping you at.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: vegas39 on May 12, 2013, 07:32 PM
I too am very anxious for a video! Keep an eye on the electric fan setup in hot weather and climbing hills, I gotta feeling what you have on there may not be enough. Keep us posted.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Elandan2 on May 12, 2013, 07:37 PM
I am really interested in the amount of noise.  I think that has always been the limiting factor regarding puller diesels.  Winnebago has tried several variations, Deutz Air Diesels, GM 6.2 and 6.5 diesels and Freightliner FRED chassis over the years.  Your conversion and the attention to detail has been incredible.  Can't wait for the road test results!!  Rick
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 22, 2013, 12:58 PM
Getting pretty good at taking this thing apart and putting it back together again. The Hayden fan relay was bad out of the box so the fans engage all the time unless I manually flip the overide switch to shut them off. Went through the troubleshooting and the sensor is shorted out. So I get to tear all the wiring and controller back out and return it. My advice is to stay away from those controllers.(guess where it is made)

I ordered up a Painless wiring controller 30102 that features a screw in temp sender with 195 degree on and 185 degree off. It also has a circuit breaker and should be much more reliable. The Cummins uses a 180 degree thermostat and this should work well. This one cost twice as much and I can't find any bad reviews on it. Cooling the engine is not really an area I want to skimp on. Should have the controller in a couple days to get that up and running.

I also opted to install a frame mounted electric fuel pump back by the tank. It has a 30gph flow rate and a 5-9psi operating range. This is the pressure range where the mechanical pump operates. This will work well as a primer for the fuel lines and assist the mechanical pump when needed. Also, it can be used for a backup if the mechanical pump dies by bypassing it. The pump is mounted and plumbed in all I need to do is finish a little wiring on it.

Had to take the intercooler back out for the controller issues and found a small tranny leak at the cooler in front. I will take care of that as well.

BTW: I took the fuel shut off solenoid back out when we where trying to bleed the injecton pump thinking it was sucking air somehow.(it wasn't and can't as it is pressurized) After reinstalling it and getting the engine running for awhile I noticed a fuel leak under the rig. It was coming from the solenoid and it took me a few days to figure out what was wrong. The O-ring fell off when I pulled it out. I found it this morning laying on the floor by the steering column. D:oH!  I'll get that addressed soon too.



 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 22, 2013, 10:00 PM
Awesome!  SO close!!!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 23, 2013, 10:26 AM
Got the fuel solenoid back out and reinstalled the O-ring. I made a tool to get it out easier by grinding down an old 7/8" wrench. First I ground out the size to fit the solenoid as it is 15/16 or metric maybe, then ground the outside of the open end down to slide in the tight space, and then cut the wrench in half. I was able to get it in between the fuel lines to break it loose and then loosen from above once the throttle bracket was unbolted. Hope it doesn't leak again.

Got the Hayden controller removed and returned this morning. Still waiting for the Painless relay kit to show up.

I forgot to mention that I put the engine cover on loosely when I moved it out of the shop. I couldn't get it all the way down as the fuel lines to the 5 gallon pail and an old A/C hose were hanging over. There is probably an 1" gap around the cover and floor. Even with the open spaces, no carpet, or any type of extra sound deadening the rig was suprisingly quiet compared to when the engine compartment is open. I was afraid I wouldn't be able to even hear myself talk but that is definately not the case. As expected, it is louder than the 440, I couldn't even tell that was running really.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on May 28, 2013, 07:25 PM
OMG!!!  The suspense is killing me!


Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on May 28, 2013, 10:16 PM
Sorry Kevin, slow going lately.

I got the electric fuel pump wired up and controlled by a rocker switch under the dash. It made quick work of priming the tank lines. The main tank lines got hooked up yesterday and the 5 gallon pail was retired.

The Painless wiring kit was installed yesterday which involved draining a gallon of antifreeze out of the system to screw in the sensor probe. I used a coolant plug up in front by the alternator. The kit includes an adapter fitting that worked fine for installing it in the Cummins. The wiring was clearly labeled and I feel much better about the quality of this setup. I am going to run a manual override switch by using a toggle switch to provide a ground that bypasses the temp sensor when needed.

Tonight I started it up and let it run long enough to check that the fuel solenoid stopped leaking. Apparently that o-ring is rather important. :laugh:

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on June 30, 2013, 09:45 PM
Sorry for the delay in posting. Life has been busy lately.

Here is the progress since the last post. I reinstalled the engine compartment to radiator shield and had to make a bracket as the shield originally fastens to the radiator shroud. That is not used with the Cummins so an alternative was needed to seal against the back of the radiator.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_133426800x600_zpsd0ea9fbb.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_133426800x600_zpsd0ea9fbb.jpg.html)   

I also made these side shields up to direct air through the radiator. The parts manual shows something similar as factory but there were none and it doesn't really seem like any were ever there.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/RadiatorShield2Medium_zps4ea15432.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/RadiatorShield2Medium_zps4ea15432.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/RadiatorShieldMedium_zpsf0124b41.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/RadiatorShieldMedium_zpsf0124b41.jpg.html)

All of the new wiring and some of the old is going in plastic looms to help protect it.

With that out of the way I reinstalled the intercooler and carefully cut the holes for the intercooler tubes to go through the upper shield.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175129800x600_zpscf75de93.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175129800x600_zpscf75de93.jpg.html)

This one was a little tricky as it comes through at an angle.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175124800x600_zps0a3f7fb5.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175124800x600_zps0a3f7fb5.jpg.html)


All done with that!

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_162550800x600_zpsab79f935.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_162550800x600_zpsab79f935.jpg.html)

Bumper back on for the first time since the conversion started.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_162606800x600_zps71164cfb.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_162606800x600_zps71164cfb.jpg.html)

Grill divider and lower grill back on. Really hard to tell much is different from the outside.....unless it is running. ;)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175144800x600_zps618e502b.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175144800x600_zps618e502b.jpg.html)

Another shot of the intercooler and piping.

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175114800x600_zps268d12cf.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175114800x600_zps268d12cf.jpg.html)

And some glamour shots out of the shop idling away. :)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175755800x600_zps09e5c0a6.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175755800x600_zps09e5c0a6.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175817800x600_zps911d7a38.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175817800x600_zps911d7a38.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175844800x600_zpsf4326694.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175844800x600_zpsf4326694.jpg.html)

(http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac1/Chargerman1969/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175907800x600_zps1ad786b3.jpg) (http://s880.photobucket.com/user/Chargerman1969/media/Winnebago/IMG_20130630_175907800x600_zps1ad786b3.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: audioguyinMI on July 01, 2013, 12:40 AM
Thanks much for the update.   :)clap


Sounds like still no maiden voyage yet though?  I think we're all dying to know how the whole thing works on the highway.  Given all the work you're put into it, I suspect you are at the top of the list of people who want to know.

Best of luck, and may your schedule free up soon. :)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 01, 2013, 12:50 AM
No driving yet. The brakes are not up to it until they get checked out. All I have are the front right now. There was also an oil leak at the fuel pump that I just got fixed today. There are couple other small things and it should be ready.

I've let it idle a lot and did quite a few starting, stopping, and backing up manuevers to make sure the cooling system will handle stop and go traffic. Found out the sensor for automatic transmission cooler fan works today and it cools the tranny off nicely when sitting still in gear.   

All I can say at this point is you can feel the difference in low end torque. It's much different just puttering around compared to the 440. Hard to explain it really.

I will try to get a video of it but I've never messed with that before. Hm?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 01, 2013, 03:54 PM
Sorry,

Tried to post a video, didn't work.

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on July 01, 2013, 04:27 PM
Man that thing is looking boss!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 01, 2013, 06:01 PM
Hey "The Boss" just might be a good name for it.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: pvoth1111 on July 01, 2013, 06:14 PM
You know this voids your warranty :angel:





nice work....good job!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Oz on July 01, 2013, 08:11 PM
Post a video on YouTube and then post the link here.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: RedneckExpress on July 01, 2013, 10:03 PM
So, what did you end up doing with the old 440-3?  I've been plotting doing a 360/440 swap for my truck as the 360 is a tad under powered and finding a diesel donor truck around here is a nightmare. 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 01, 2013, 10:48 PM
The 440 is going in one of our trucks.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 02, 2013, 12:00 AM
Here are some Youtube videos. The quality isn't the best as I was using my phone.

Walk around while the Cummins was running.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uc5U7BMKRg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uc5U7BMKRg)

Starting it up and using the pull stop cable to shut it down. You can hear the electric fans running after the engine stops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnbRqR1K-W8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnbRqR1K-W8)

Running with the engine cover off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4JvBEnG53E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4JvBEnG53E)

This one with the engine cover on shows the noise reduction compared to the previous videos. I haven't done any sound deadening and there is no carpet yet so it should get a little better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHCQRDsRBt0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHCQRDsRBt0)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: lewism61 on July 02, 2013, 01:05 AM
Amazing job.  Congratulations on the fine engineering and workmanship. 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on July 02, 2013, 08:00 AM
Outstanding!  I can't wait for the road test!

:)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap :)clap

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: M & J on July 02, 2013, 09:03 AM
Now that's the ticket! Well Done Sir.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: RedneckExpress on July 02, 2013, 01:35 PM
Hey, where'd you get the fans on yer radiator at?  I've been plotting adding a pair to my truck to augment the engine driven fan.  The problem I'm running into is the radiator cools down too well and subsequently, at low speed, not enough air is being pulled through to properly cool the big tranny cooler in the center of the sandwich (Only place I could fit it), so I need to add a couple fans I can actuate manually to boost air flow to keep the tranny temp as cool as possible when grade pulling :).

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 02, 2013, 01:54 PM
Thanks guys!

Redneck - I got the fans, transmission cooler, and all the silicone boots from these guys. The fans seem to be fine for the price but the free mounting kit was no good. The pins were very brittle and snapped off. I ended up buying some from a parts store for a few bucks.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/index.php?cPath=15&osCsid=4e9fc72b654b02db4fca1f1109a2bd52
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: RedneckExpress on July 02, 2013, 05:53 PM
Thanks, I'll snap the measurements, then grab a couple, at those prices they're definitely worth it. 

I assume you custom wired up a thermostatic switch to turn them on and off on yer bago, correct?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 02, 2013, 06:22 PM
Yep, I used a 195 on 185 off switch and then put a manual toggle on the ground side to turn it on and off if needed.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Lefty on July 03, 2013, 12:01 AM
Excellent job!!
What I want to see is the look you get the first time you take it to a quik oil place.. and the techs there try to look up the filters for a 1973 Winnebago that came with a diesel. That should be a good laugh.

I will point out 1 minor detail that I would change. In your walkaround, I noticed the exhaust pipe sticks out a few inches. Mine was like that, and I gashed my leg wide open on it one day.. I then cut it off so it was flush with the side of the coach... I still have a scar from it.  Just a suggestion.
Other than that I can't say anything but positive things about it. The rig is absolutely gorgeous, and you've done an outstanding job engineering the swap so it not only fits.. but looks surprisingly factory installed as well.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: RedneckExpress on July 03, 2013, 03:11 PM
My only suggestion would be to possible change the current tip out on the exhaust with a down tip to reduce the potential for sooting on the side of the motorhome :). 
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 03, 2013, 03:29 PM
The tip sticks out about 2" from the body. I will see how it goes as I just used pieces that were free to build the exhaust. I will probably get some type of tip for it down the road to spruce it up some.(or maybe big dual stacks LOL)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on July 03, 2013, 03:39 PM
Quoteor maybe big dual stacks LOL

Now thats an image thats hard to get out of your mind.    Hm?    Just make sure you place anti-burn protection around them   ;)
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Oz on July 03, 2013, 10:16 PM
I did exactly the same thing Lefty did.  Got a nice gash for it.  I cut back the pipe a bit and put a stainless-steel tip on it which extended out maybe an inch or so from the edge of the rig.  I specifically chose one with rounded in edges!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 12, 2013, 05:40 PM
Got the tranny up to temp today and it needed 2 more quarts of fluid. Then I took a little cruise around the block. It didn't want to shift out of first right away for some reason. On the last straight section coming back to the shop it finally shifted out of low and it was like getting shot out of a cannon. I think it is going to be fine powerwise. I will have to check on the shifting delay. The trans has been sitting dry for a couple years so maybe something was just sticky.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on July 12, 2013, 07:23 PM
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 12, 2013, 08:28 PM
I think the kickdown linkage needs to be loosened up some, at least that is a starting point. It is running sweet otherwise.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: pvoth1111 on July 13, 2013, 07:20 AM
I was gonna say sounds like a throttle pressure issue to me.....ya beat me to it.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 24, 2013, 11:29 PM
The first test drive is done!

Re-engineered my kick down linkage a little and it shifts nice now. The brakes are working better but still need to be checked out before any serious trips.

With that stuff done it was finally time for a drive. The transmission shifts firmly and the aftermarket converter responds nicely. 1st gear shift is around 15-20mph, 2nd gear shift is 30-35mph, and 3rd gear(drive) is maxed out at 50mph. Manually shifting the factory overdrive at about 45mph seems to be about right but it will work fine at lower speeds too. 60 MPH is just about right in overdrive and it doesn't feel underpowered or sluggish.

I had a little trouble getting power to the gear vendor on my first 2 test drives so it wasn't used. Figured out the power issue on the 3rd run and it worked great. The gear vendor electronics shift it into overdrive automatically or you can shut it off and go manual if you want. For speeds up to 55mph the electronic shifts are perfect and the gear vendor overdrive feels right in the diesels powerband. Only got a little driving with this gear but I think that it is going to be used a lot for hill climbing.

The factory overdrive and gear vendor worked well together and should be a good interstate or level highway gear.

Temperatures were in the low 70's today and the engine ran in the 170-180 range the whole time, transmission pan temps on the road varied between 150-180 with hill climbing. Turbo boost was maxed at about 23psi on the hills and varied between 5-15psi cruising. There really was no diesel smoke that I could see in the mirror and overall I am happy with the power. I could play with the pump a little and probably gain some power but it feels good as is for now.

The noise level is not bad in the rig. The exhaust has a nice deep tone and you can hear the turbo whistle but, I like that. This swap was a lot of work and today made it all worth it.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: W0WOP on July 25, 2013, 02:34 AM
I've been following this thread and all I can say is WOW!!!  Congrats on the success, GREAT JOB!!!


All I can add is, when ya commin to do mine?   ;)



Mike
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on July 25, 2013, 08:40 AM
Outstanding!!!  Once you get the brakes dialed in and take it for a long drive, we can't wait to hear what you are getting for gas mileage!  (or diesel mileage...lol!)

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: audioguyinMI on July 25, 2013, 12:43 PM
Right on.  Congrats on your continuing success.


:)clap
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on July 25, 2013, 01:33 PM
Congratulations !! :)ThmbUp  When you make your first trip be on the look out for Hmmmm I never gave that a thought Gremlins  Good Luck  Frank :)clap
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 25, 2013, 10:59 PM
Thanks for all the encouragement through this conversion. I am afraid that I look forward more to driving it than camping in it. lol

A few more odds and ends and it is back to the interior renovation......
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 26, 2013, 07:16 PM
Well, 98 miles on it and so far so good. Time to get back to the interior renovation soon.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on July 28, 2013, 09:08 PM
Went for a short ride today and ran across the scales. Rig weighed 12,000lbs with me in it. Still need to put the fridge, couch, matresses, and other things in. GVW is listed at 14,000lbs. Fuel tank is about half full and all other tanks are empty.

Overall, the performance is not bad for a 12,000lb brick.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on July 28, 2013, 09:48 PM
Well done. :)ThmbUp It's been and adventure just fallowing your progress. Nice job.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Lefty on July 28, 2013, 10:54 PM
Congratz on the build.. I've enjoyed reading it as you went along. Looking forward to the next chapter "Interior Restoration"...lol
Now, you should build a bio-diesel processor plant and make your own fuel... it costs about $.70/gal. to make it if you can get a few restaurants lined up for a steady supply of oil.
I've been seriously looking into it lately...since I got the F-350 Turbo Diesel Dually.
The non-computer controlled engines are perfect candidates, as they can run up to 100% bio-diesel.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 06, 2013, 06:56 AM
Any more road tests yet or long trips?

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 07, 2013, 09:58 AM
Not much to report on the drivetrain, probably got about 150 miles on it total. I do start it once or twice a week just to hear it run. :)

I've been working on the interior renovations as it is not ready for any kind of camping in the current state. In hindsight I probably should have bought a rig that was ready to go once the diesel swap was done. On the other hand when it is completely finished it will be exactly what we want.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on December 21, 2013, 04:53 PM
Hey wanna, I was just looking thru old posts to see if i saw them all , On your question about 3 position switches, My 2001 Dodge 1500 with factory fog lights Has a H/L switch that has 4 positions Off  (full rotation left) Park one click right H/L two clicks right And pull out in either position fog lights Automaticly pulls in when rotated full left to off  This would give you all connections necc. Mounting would be the biggest problem . You would prob have to go to a dealer to see one . Also on the subject of the vented fuel cap when i examined mine, someone had already vented it by grinding off part of the inside opening it to atmosphere , It has never shown any sign of a leak that i noticed Frank
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on April 04, 2014, 03:35 PM
Hey guys! Still around....this winter has totally sucked for working on the rig. Still plugging away on interior items.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Stripe on April 25, 2014, 07:40 PM
Looking forward to updates..
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 29, 2014, 12:58 AM
I finally have a little bit of driving data to report on the diesel conversion. The rig has been at the mechanics and received all new rear brakes and new seals in the rear axle. Just got it back so over the weekend I made a 170 mile round trip to get my flooring done. It was the first real venture away from home.

The route I took ended up being almost a worst case senario for fuel economy. I encountered several 6% grades, hilly areas, winding back roads, road construction, detours, and a bunch of small towns to pass through. I did not baby the throttle on the hills and could not use the overdrive or double overdrive nearly as much as I would have liked. Even with all of that going against me the 12000lb.+ rig pulled off 11.3mpg on the trip. I was getting 5-6mpg running 55-60mph on the interstate with the 440 prior to the swap.

I really think that if I can get it out on the highway and just cruise that 14mpg will be possible at about 60mph. The double overdrive is much more usable that I thought it would be. There were a couple sections of road where I was able to use it for a few miles and it felt good in the 60 to 62mph range.

One thing that suprised me is the gear vendor setup. I ended up using the gear vendor 0.78 overdrive way more than I thought. In town driving it proved to be very valuable. I used it in the automatic mode most of the time so it shifted to overdrive on its own. There were occasions where the factory overdrive of 0.69 was a little better gear so I used that. 

Overall, it was a nice shakedown trip and all of the conversion items seemed to perform well. I will keep updating as I find out more.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 29, 2014, 08:42 AM
Outstanding!  Sounds like a setup like that would save us a lot of money in fuel, since we are always making long trips on the highways.

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on September 29, 2014, 11:59 AM
FANTASTIC ! Breaking the 10 MPG barrier is a big step Looks like with all the right conditions you may make 15 MPG Congratulations  Frank :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 01, 2014, 12:05 AM
Thanks guys! Pretty pleased with the performance and economy so far. I forgot to mention there were numerous waves and thumbs up along the way. That was an added bonus which probably had nothing to do with the diesel but just the Winnie itself. :) 

One of the mechanics texted me to make sure it made the trip and then the carpet guy checked to make sure I got home as well. Glad it didn't break down or that would have been embarrasing.

I'll have to get a video of it going down the road to give everyone an idea what it acts and sounds like on the highway someday. The flooring and dynomat sure helped quiet it down inside. The exhaust still has a bellar but it is not too bad.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 01, 2014, 08:15 AM
Good stuff. Now we really have something to ponder. I've thought of it often and I no the guys here have talked about it a lot  but we've never had a yard stick to measure by.  By the way thanks for the GREAT thread with pictures and explanations. Fantastic. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 14, 2014, 06:59 PM
Put about 240 more miles on the diesel. Made a few grocery runs, a Menards run, and some work related driving. Few miles were flat road, most were hilly country roads. I spent about twenty miles on the interstate but the wind was bad and it was hilly. Another 30 miles of straight headwinds with almost full throttle to maintain speed. Basically  tough conditions for at least half the miles driven. Average of 10.6mpg on this tank. Very little double overdrive, a lot of gear vendor overdrive.

Once in double overdrive I did get the attention of a State Trooper while cresting a hill and got the flashing headlights and slow down motion from him,  so yeah,  I am not babying it at all .   W%
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 14, 2014, 10:18 PM
AWESOME!!!  When it comes the time to rebuild or replace our engine, I'm definitely going to consider this, and reference this build thread heavily!

Kev
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DonD on October 14, 2014, 10:22 PM
I've got one in mine...........
(http://images.craigslist.org/00404_bToTLDV12VP_600x450.jpg)


The new bus that is!!
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Dr. Righteous on October 30, 2014, 12:20 PM
Man Oh Man.


I purchased my classic motor home expressly for a Cummins conversion.  Don't know when I will get around to it because life tends to shake up your plans.  Here is my '78 Avco.  440, on the M600 chassis.  The rear is a Rockwell with 4.88 gears.  Going to be more of a challenge hitting the 1800 ideal cruise RPM at 60mph. 


(https://sites.google.com/site/haveavcowilltravel/_/rsrc/1370266979923/home/avco%20beauty%20shot.jpg)

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: TripleJ on October 30, 2014, 12:27 PM
Quote from: DonD on October 14, 2014, 10:22 PM
I've got one in mine...........
(http://images.craigslist.org/00404_bToTLDV12VP_600x450.jpg)

The new bus that is!!

Before I read the text, I was gonna say "damn nice work, looks factory" D:oH! D:oH!



Wantawinnie, did I miss it or have you put up some rpm/speed numbers yet? 


Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DonD on October 30, 2014, 02:01 PM
Mr. R, FWIW my bus has 3.54 gears, 19.5 wheels and 1:1 top gear. I'll have to get the rpm/mph numbers. fairly close tho'.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: eXodus on October 30, 2014, 02:37 PM
Very good built very good documentation.
I'm curious would a newer Cummins also fit ? The newer 5.9 or the 6.7 ?


Ever thought about running it with vegetable oil ? I ran a couple of old cars with WVO and this old engines did great.


Kevin our 454s would be probably easier replaced with newer Duramax 6.6L and an Allison Gearbox. About some size and weight.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 30, 2014, 09:58 PM
Quote from: TripleJ on October 30, 2014, 12:27 PM
Before I read the text, I was gonna say "damn nice work, looks factory" D:oH! D:oH!



Wantawinnie, did I miss it or have you put up some rpm/speed numbers yet? 

Hooking up a diesel tach is a little involved so I don't have one yet. Probably going with the digital Tiny Tach brand for cost and ease of installation.

I will say there are enough gears to get the rpm comfortable at whatever speed needed. My final drive ratio in double overdrive is nearly identical to having a 3.55 gear axle with factory overdrive. Gear vendor OD is effectively the same as 3.55 final ratio, factory OD is a 3.15 ratio, and double OD is a 2.45 rear end ratio. The Cummins likes them all.  :)ThmbUp


Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Froggy1936 on October 30, 2014, 10:20 PM
Hey Wanna back when VW came out with there diesel The dealers were sold a Tach that had a magnetic pickup that you could just place anywhere on the engine and get a RPM reading This tool would be available at any VW dealers parts dept (may have to get part no from service dept ) and cost is unknown but worth a look   Frank
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 30, 2014, 10:51 PM
I wanted to try a Dakota Digital box to run the factory tach. I hate to spend that much to run a 40 year old tach that is obsolete with no parts available. I've studied that option a little and think the Tiny Tach with just a wire wrapped around the #1 injector line and 12V power will work just as well. It also keeps track of engine run time.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 30, 2014, 10:55 PM
Quote from: eXodus on October 30, 2014, 02:37 PM
Very good built very good documentation.
I'm curious would a newer Cummins also fit ? The newer 5.9 or the 6.7 ?

Ever thought about running it with vegetable oil ? I ran a couple of old cars with WVO and this old engines did great.

Kevin our 454s would be probably easier replaced with newer Duramax 6.6L and an Allison Gearbox. About some size and weight.

The newer ones would probably fit about the same but the 6.7's are loaded with emissions and computer controls. The common rail 5.9 doesn't have as many problems but the wiring and computer controls are still needed.

Haven't really looked into alternative fuel at this point.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: eXodus on October 31, 2014, 07:33 AM
Thanks for clarifying. I'm into Diesel and know the Aftermarket makes Standalone computers for the 6.7 so you can strip off all the emission stuff. 


The Diesel scene puts the Cummins 5.9 virtually everywhere, and Computer controls are not really bad. You've got a couple of sensors around the engine to control the Common Rail and the Transmission.


There are Sensors for the Alternator available to create a Tacho Signal.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on October 31, 2014, 10:21 AM
I am not familiar with any stand alone computers and harnesses for the Cummins. If they are out there that would definitely make it easier. I have used several programmers for the 5.9 common rails on my pickups in the past and have looked at some of the emission delete and programmers for the 6.7. Those still required the factory ECM, sensors, and wiring.

I really wouldn't consider a 6.7 for a swap now as the EPA has cracked down hard on the emissions delete companies and those programmers have gotten very expensive and illegal for street use. I can't imagine any way that swap would be cost effective. Some of those programmers cost more than I paid for the whole 5.9 cummins parts truck.

Now, the earlier 5.9 common rail (2003-2007) with the block mounted computer would probably be the easiest and make for a nice swap. I would want a non computer controlled transmission like a 47RH but that is just me. One nice thing is that they are much quieter engines than the earlier versions and don't have the emissions issues of the later 6.7. There are several variations from 2003-2007 and they all make more power than the one I swapped in. In my case I don't know if the original gas engine cooling system would be up to the challenge. The intercooler would likely need to be resized then also. I went with the early 12 valve Cummins for rock solid reliability, rather simple design, and cost. I could turn up the power on mine easily but right now I am happy with the performance.

My early alternator doesn't have a "W" terminal so the running the tach off that doesn't work from what I have read.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: kattkisson on October 31, 2014, 01:10 PM
Ran a Tiny-tach on Lesharo Diesel.  Was very pleased with unit but if you have failing eyesight the display in not very large. Never let me down.  Since the Lesharo had a pump system the sensor clamped around the 6mm injector tubing.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: eXodus on October 31, 2014, 01:38 PM
there is a sensor available which you strap on the alternator surface. dont know the name sorry.

i would also go for the later 5.9 cummins not only because of the electric. the block is more available and more and cheaper aftermarket parts. also it has a better fuel economy then the 6.7. but this is no brainer, the bigger bore and epa has its toll.

sure the 6.7 would have more endpower, but how needs this ?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: uglydukwling on November 03, 2014, 07:44 AM
Chrysler dealers sold an add-on tach for this engine. The '92 and up came pre-wired for a tach, and the dealer sold me this version first. I had no place to plug it in on my '91 1/2, so he got me the correct one. It came with a piece of magnetic tape to put on the crankshaft pulley. If it's not available through dealers any more, look for a '91 or older in the junk yard. For a later engine, it would depend on how much of the original wiring you kept. You may have a place to simply plug in a tach.

The Perkins in my Winnebago has a tach driven off the alternator. There's no terminal on the alternator for a tach wire. The wire goes into the alternator through a vent slot and is connected somewhere inside. The conversion had already been done when I got the Winnebago and I never saw the tach installation instructions, so I don't know whether the instructions tell you how to do it, or whether you have to know what you're doing, but it can be done. Unfortunately, I don't know what brand my tach is. There's no name on the face, and the body has been painted. It only reads to 4000 rpm, so presumably it was made for truck or heavy equipment use, not the hot-rod trade. A truck equipment dealer might be a place to look.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: DonD on December 26, 2014, 01:51 PM
Quote from: DonD on October 30, 2014, 02:01 PM
Mr. R, FWIW my bus has 3.54 gears, 19.5 wheels and 1:1 top gear. I'll have to get the rpm/mph numbers. fairly close tho'.
55mph indicated=2000 rpm on flat ground.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on June 02, 2015, 01:43 PM
Gear vendors makes a motorhome specific unit with a parking brake. The original won't work as it is part of the 727 trans. I don't have a parking brake as the gear vendor was bought used. The original wasn't working anyway. I was considering a line lock on the front discs or possibly converting to some newer rear disc brake axle that has a parking brake at some point. Not high on the to do list right now so I just use wheel chocks.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: kansascat on January 24, 2016, 12:52 AM
Wantawinnie, just wondering if there was anymileage updates and performance conclusions out on the road?

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: tmsnyder on July 26, 2017, 01:15 PM
What's a reasonable price for a donor truck these days if someone wanted a 12 valve 6bt?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: srosa707 on August 10, 2017, 10:31 AM
@Wantawinnie I know its a tall order, but any chance you could update this thread with the photos lost on PhotoBucket?  I am very interested in this swap and your detailed description would be a great help.  Also, its been a while since you completed this swap.  How do you like it?  Noise?  Mileage?  Any other important feedback?
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 01, 2017, 10:41 AM
Hello again! Still here!!

I started to try and update the post from the Photobucket fiasco using this site for hosting so it will be permanent. The 4 picture limit per post is a problem at this point as some of my posts had more. I started editing the posts so it would still make sense with the written text but it will take some time.

As far as the swap, I love it. In regard to noise it is not a problem really. The "main" noise at this point is the side exit exhaust when windows are open on that side while driving. It is most noticeable when going along highways that have concrete side barriers or over bridges. I may take a look at running the exhaust all the way back or going to a quieter OEM type muffler at some point. You do know it is a diesel under the engine cover but nothing bothersome to me.

The last mileage reports were in the 10-12mpg range in rather difficult driving conditions. Since those reports I pulled the diesel injectors and had them tested. Two had pop pressures way off and one had a constant dribble. Most likely original injectors to the engine. I replaced them with a set of OEM rebuilds and it cleaned up smoke on start up and idle is smoother. I am hopeful that a mileage bump will also be realized.

As I write this the Winnebago just traveled 150 miles pulling a 12' trailer and golf cart to a campground along the Mississippi river. I absolutely love the gear vendor overdrive and A518 combination as it gives tons of gearing options on the highway, rural roads, and in town.

Tranny temps pulling the trailer maxed out in the 180-190 range and engine temps were 160-180. EGT's maxed out at 1150 with foot to the floor on longer grades which is what I wanted. I don't want to have to worry about it getting too hot while pulling grades. Keep in mind this is a big rig as far as Eyebrow Winnebagos are concerned. My weight is probably close to 13K pounds or more just with the coach. A lighter rig would perform even better.

Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: CapnDirk on September 01, 2017, 03:44 PM
Sucks that you have to re-do the pics, but your efforts are greatly appreciated, and the conversion one of the best and most informing here.


Greatly appreciated!   :)clap
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 05, 2017, 10:46 AM
Weighed the old girl yesterday after our Labor Day camping trip. 13,600lbs. with empty holding tanks, nearly full freshwater tank. Diesel tank at a little more than half(guessing as gauge quit working). It was loaded up to travel with family on board. She's pretty big for a eyebrow Winnie! Lol
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: srosa707 on September 05, 2017, 01:13 PM
@Wantawinnie thanks for the update!  Sounds like you are really enjoying the rig at this point.  We just got back from about a 750 mile trip in California and all I could think about was the engine swap.  Lots of miles at 55 wishing I had more power for the hills and speed on the flatland.  I keep going back and forth between the diesel and the 440 and I just cant seem to make up my mind.  Why did you opt for the diesel?  Can you tell that much difference  between the Cummins and the 440?


Also, thanks so much for updating the pictures.  I will be following closely.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 05, 2017, 03:45 PM
It's hard and a little unfair of me to compare the Cummins and 440 it replaced. The Cummins has a 4 speed overdrive and a gear vendor on top of that. It has twice the gears to chose from as the old 440. 3000rpm or more was where the 440 ran with the 3 speed transmission. Over the 500 miles of highway driving to bring the Winnie home the 440 got around 5-6mpg. The Cummins gets twice that in worse conditions.

Where the Cummins and transmission combo I installed really shines is rumbling down the road at 1800 rpm and taking gradual hills with very little extra throttle. I can travel at 55-60 in overdrive without issue, it's in it's element. 70mph on the open interstate is also not a problem in overdrive or double overdrive. It again just rolls down the road.

Contrary to what some may think, the old 12 valve is not the end all for power. You are not going to be staying with new diesel trucks pulling trailers through the mountains. I've got some hills that bring it down to around 50mph before topping the grade but that is in high gear with the gear vendor overdrive engaged. Pulling into straight drive maxes out at 45 to 50 so either way your at 50 mph at the top. I have little doubt it will take almost any hill I've ever encountered, including going from Cody to Yellowstone or through the Smokey's at 45mph or more. It will be to the floor though.

I could add more fuel but then run into high exhaust gas temps and risk hurting the engine or damaging the transmission. Not worth it in a 13k pound rig.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 05, 2017, 03:56 PM
Has anyone thought about running a 24 valve? All of the electronics are packaged with the engine so if you get a donor wrecked truck you have everything you need.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 05, 2017, 04:27 PM
I believe it would have to be the 5.9 common rail version from 2003-2007 to have the electronics engine mounted. The 98-2002 24 valve is not a very popular swap for that reason. Plus, they are louder than any other version including the 12 valve in my opinion. There is a painless wiring harness available for the common rail from what I remember.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 05, 2017, 08:14 PM
The ECM is mounted right on the side of the engine on my 98.5 24 valve. Oh, it is noisy but it is a diesel, they are supposed to rattle. :D
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 05, 2017, 08:41 PM
For some reason those years are not popular with the swap crowd because of electronics. I like the noise too, not sure more is better in a motorhome is all I meant.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 05, 2017, 09:25 PM
I understand the electronics bit but the 24 valve is 240 HP right out of the box and the 12 valve is 180. I forget the torque specs but they are equally different. That is substantial. The mileage is better with the electronics also. The only downside 'if you listen to the internet, is the Bosch 44 injection pump. But mine has lived through two complete lift pump failures and is going strong. As with anything you only hear the bad on the net and not the good.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: CapnDirk on September 05, 2017, 11:36 PM
Quote from: Wantawinnie on September 05, 2017, 10:46 AM
Weighed the old girl yesterday after our Labor Day camping trip. 13,600lbs. with empty holding tanks, nearly full freshwater tank. Diesel tank at a little more than half(guessing as gauge quit working). It was loaded up to travel with family on board. She's pretty big for a eyebrow Winnie! Lol


OOOOohh I get it!!  BBW!  Big beautiful Winnebago!  :)rotflmao :D
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 06, 2017, 12:13 AM
She's in good shape for the shape she's in.  :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: khantroll on September 06, 2017, 09:45 AM

One day I'd like to do a diesel swap, and I'm thinking the 98 24v. They are cheaper because they aren't as popular as 12v, and they have more power out of the box. As comparison:


413:
<These are specs from Allpar, and may not represent the industrial RV engines>
Horse Power: 375 @ 5000RPM
Torque: 495 ft lbs @2800RPM


12v: <Credit goes to CumminsHub.com>

Model Year   Horsepower   Torque


1989 - 1993   160 hp @ 2,500 rpm   400 lb-ft @ 1,600 rpm

1994 - 1995   â€¢ 160 hp @ 2,500 rpm (auto trans)   â€¢ 400 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (auto trans)
                     â€¢ 175 hp @ 2,600 rpm (manual trans)  • 420 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (manual trans)


1996 - 1998   â€¢ 180 hp @ 2,500 rpm (auto trans) • 420 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (auto trans)
                      • 215 hp @ 2,600 rpm (manual trans)   â€¢ 440 lb-ft @ 1,500 rpm (manual trans)


24V: <Credit goes to CumminsHub.com>

Model Year   Horsepower   Torque
1998 - 2000   â€¢ 215 hp @ 2,700 RPM (auto trans)  • 420 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM (auto trans)
                    • 235 hp @ 2,700 RPM (man trans)   â€¢ 460 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM (man trans)


2001 - 2002   â€¢ 235 hp @ 2,700 RPM               â€¢ 460 lb-ft @ 1,400 RPM
                     â€¢ 245 hp @ 2,700 RPM (H.O.)    • 505 lb-ft @ 1,600 RPM (H.O.)


2003              â€¢ 235 hp @ 2,700 RPM             â€¢ 460 lb-ft @ 1,400 RPM
                     â€¢ 305 hp @ 2,900 RPM (H.O.)   â€¢ 555 lb-ft @ 1,400 RPM (H.O.)



The 24V has higher out of the box specs, and being computer controlled it can be cheaply chipped for more power. It also bolts up the same as the 12v.

Now, the numbers above show one of two reasons I haven't moved forward with a swap yet: the numbers aren't a whole lot better then the stock 413 in my rig. You get the advantage of a new drive train and low end torque for days though.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Wantawinnie on September 06, 2017, 10:35 AM
The 413's were lower compression versions and had 265hp in the RV's from what I remember of the one in my parts rig. Not sure what the torque numbers were in the RV. I believe that was before the ratings changed from gross to net also. The net numbers are quite a bit less.

Edit: Found this on a discussion of 413 RV and truck engines

Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-1 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 265 @ 4000 445 fp @ 2400 Sodium Ex. Valves

Dodge 1971/72 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 238 @ 3600 407 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves

Dodge 1973 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188 X 3.75 7.5 to 1 190 @ 3200 355 fp @ 2000 Sodium Ex. Valves

Dodge 1976 V8- 413-3 4 BBL 4.188.X 3.75 7.54 to 1 175 @ 3200 325 fp @ 2000

The diesel numbers are net and varied through the years. The 215 HP 12 valve only came in the 96 to early 98 manual transmission trucks. Pretty rare now as those pumps make the most power when turned up. Most common were 160 and later 180 hp with automatics. All can be modified to make quite a bit more fairly easily.

Do some checking on that early 24 valve swap. There is more to the wiring, thought it had something to do with trying to split up the system. Maybe using the gauges and everything out of the truck would help. Never looked into it as it sounded like too much trouble.

I'd probably go with a 2003-2004 HO if going electronic. 305 hp and 555 ft lbs of torque stock. Seem to be a little more durable than the later 5.9 HO's. But a lot of that may be to the tuners on the market making big power with those and blowing holes in pistons when they get hot.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 06, 2017, 11:22 AM
I have a very basic and fairly old programmer on mine and I am set at the highest setting on it and when I dynoed it a few years ago it was at 320 HP and 485 TQ at the wheels. It gets 12-14 MPG in a Dodge 3500 dually 2WD pickup with a 4,000 lb. slide in and towing 6500lbs. behind. So that is 11,500 on the truck and pulling 6500 which is about the same as a motor home towing a trailer. Running a 47RE transmission and 4.11 gears.
Title: Re: Dodge 440 to 5.9 Cummins Diesel conversion
Post by: khantroll on September 06, 2017, 12:01 PM
Hi Wantawinnie,


You bring up a good point. I had a brain fart and forgot about the conversion from gross to net. My numbers came from the latest engines posted on allpar.com. The 12v number was the highest number posted, and the 24v was the highest non-HO number on cumminshub because I thought non HO would be more common. I will edit my post for clarity in case anyone reads it.


I'll definitely check into it, but what little research I have found made it seem like I would need a compatible dash cluster and an the electronic components from a manual truck to make it work. 02-03 trucks are pretty common in my neck of the woods, with complete engines with computers selling for just over $1000. A 12v long block, on the other hand, costs $3500, and a complete engine is $4500 to $5000. It even keeps the resale value of the 2nd gen dodges high.


My 1996 12v clocks in 175hp, 9500lb, and gets 16-18mpg with the manual trans and 4.10 gears (yes, I drive like grandpa).