Classic Winnebagos & Vintage RVs

Topic Boards => Project Blogs => Topic started by: RockwoodMike on September 25, 2019, 11:43 PM

Title: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 25, 2019, 11:43 PM
Hello Everyone!!Ready for another full rip out project? This is my 1973 D22..Bought it off Craig's list back in June 2019..
And it was a roof cave in..Water just poured into it during the last winter..Smelled all moldy and your typical stink..That is why it need EVERYTHING ripped out of it..
Here is the first picture..Dodge 440..It ran..barely..20 mph getting it home..It was only 5 miles away at the sellers house..
I always wanted one of these things..Now it is time to do it up right!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 25, 2019, 11:47 PM
Here it is from the inside..just forward of the air conditioner is the roof cavein
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 25, 2019, 11:52 PM
Dodge 440..6 gallons to the mile..errr. It has a fuel delivery problem..That is why we couldn't get it up to 20 miles an hour, getting it home..Actually more like 6 miles the gallon!!
Being here in California, it is smog exempt because of the year it was built..So that opens alot of possibilities on the motor rebuild..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 25, 2019, 11:54 PM
Someone had laid the carpet that was showing on top of the original factory carpet
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 25, 2019, 11:59 PM
Your typical ding and mess ups to be repaired
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 12:03 AM
Here it is interior from the front looking aft..You can see the roof cave in..It was "repaired" then just poured in
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 12:07 AM
I am not going to bore everyone with the rip out pictures but here it is with the roof completely off and all the interior torn out..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 12:10 AM
This is the right rear upper corner..Typical of everything found
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 12:17 AM
So now that everything is ripped out and the roof is off..This is where I began..Making a new board frame for that upper rear panel..Using the Kreg pocket screw hole system..Got everything I needed from Lowe's for that..Liquid nails to re glue it to the aluminum
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 12:27 AM
At the very top of the port and starboard wall was a 3.5x1.5 strip of blue foam ..You can see where I stripped it off..I have attached a 1x4 with glue and clamps, down the length of the wall..and the a 1x3 on top of that to create a channel for the wiring harnesses..I will take a picture of that tomorrow..
I am way ahead of this project..The rafter are all up and I am sheeting the roof now..But I will take all the pictures to catch you all up on this..
That is it for tonight..More tomorrow 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 26, 2019, 08:57 AM
Where there is a will, there is a way!  Keep posting the pictures!


Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 26, 2019, 09:57 AM
The other couple that are building one of these will be very interested in what you are doing!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 05:17 PM
Like I said, I am way ahead on this..I am taking pictures to explain the steps I did..I wish I had been taking the pictures as I went along instead of back tracking..Anyway..
So as shown in this pic..I glued a 1x4 directly to the aluminum while it rested on top of the blue foam..Clamps and Liquid nails..Over night set up..Then glued and screwed a 1x3 on top of that..That created a ledge for the rafters to set on and a channel for the wire harness to run down the length to the back..The port wall wires run the rear brake lights.. clearance etc..
Did the same wood work on the starboard side too
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 05:20 PM
here is the starboard side..see the channel for the wiring? I wish I had cleaned up the glue where it oozed out while it was still wet..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 05:23 PM
Here is the starboard wall looking back at the rear corner
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 05:27 PM
detail shots of the upper rear corners
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 05:32 PM
With the 1x4  glued to the aluminum and resting on top of the blue foam...And the 1x3 glued and screwed to the 1x4, that created a channel for the wire harness to set into..
Those 2 pieces of wood creates a ledge for the roof rafters to set on top of ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 05:59 PM
Here is the design of the rafter..Lowe's has a nice kiln dried 2x3x96 inch

The motorhome is 93 inches wide..I made it where the middle of the rafter has a 18 inch span (flat)that is not cut...at that point it tapers to 1.25 inches out to the end of the rafter which will create the run off needed..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 06:02 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on September 26, 2019, 09:57 AM
The other couple that are building one of these will be very interested in what you are doing!

Hi Rick, where is that other couple you mentioned??
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 27, 2019, 08:29 AM
I can't wait to see all the rest of your pictures!  Most folks would have considered your Winnie a basket case and beyond repair, but you brought it back from the grave.  You sir are a hero!


Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 27, 2019, 08:30 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2019, 06:02 PM
Hi Rick, where is that other couple you mentioned??

"girlandwinnie."  https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=15070.0
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 27, 2019, 10:19 PM
Thanks Kevin for the link..Yes I looked that over awhile back before I got started on mine ..I hope they are able to pull that one back together..
I just glue and screwed the top plywood today..It is may rain tomorrow night..I just need to get the plastic on it tomorrow..Plywood is all down now..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 28, 2019, 08:03 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 27, 2019, 10:19 PM
Thanks Kevin for the link..Yes I looked that over awhile back before I got started on mine ..I hope they are able to pull that one back together..
I just glue and screwed the top plywood today..It is may rain tomorrow night..I just need to get the plastic on it tomorrow..Plywood is all down now..


I'm very impressed!  That is some top notch carpentry work!

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 28, 2019, 11:01 AM
I like that fastening system. Do you have any issues with the 2x4's splitting at the ends?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 01:16 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on September 28, 2019, 11:01 AMI like that fastening system. Do you have any issues with the 2x4's splitting at the ends?
A little bit because I was using wet 2x4.I couldn't find any kiln dried 2x4 at Lowe's
Here are some pictures on how the Kreg system works..The drill tha creates the pocket hole has a tip on it that creates a hole for the shaft of the screw to help with splitting of the wood..
This system has taken over the Custom Kitchen Cabinet industries..It works great!!
So you just clamp that blue jig with the special clamp and drill away and it creates these pockets at an angle..With the construction adhesive..SUPER STRONG!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 01:22 PM
And you end up with this....It draws the 2 pieces together, like if you were clamping it..I am going to be using this through out this rebuild..
Kreg has all sorts of special kits..From starter kits..basic..to full on professional systems that are bench mounted high production set ups..They produce these special screws that can be bought in bulk or 100 packs..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 02:04 PM
It (I need a name for my new project..I was thinking of Sarah or Becca--Rebecca) is all covered up for the rain coming this evening..Probable the first time it will stay dry inside in years!!
Here is a shot inside..Kinda cozy actually!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 28, 2019, 02:10 PM
Very nice, Are you going to go with a rubber roof?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 02:18 PM
When I started on this project, I was stunned at the whole way the thing was built..The only solid piece of framing is the super structure made of steel that is in the front of it..Mainly for the upper bunk above the front cab..It frames the whole front end together..This SIP system..(Structural Insulated Panels)..Not to impressed by it..The roof had the same SIP design..That is why it sagged into the middle..and failed..

That 1x4--1x3 strip on top of the wall that was installed, terminates near the front and the construction of the wall changes from foam only (with the aluminum and luan skin) to a layer of 3/4 plywood with a 1/8 finish skin...This first picture shows the layers through this little light pocketThe second shows how it changes to plywood..above the the entry door..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 02:21 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on September 28, 2019, 02:10 PM
Very nice, Are you going to go with a rubber roof?
No idea!! That is where I need guys like you to tell me what you know..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Froggy1936 on September 28, 2019, 04:25 PM
Mike, Very nice work. But as you stated, finding construction of so much light weight materials , Is a Must , What you are building will be overweight empty ! And may be heavier than tires can support ! The most important part of any RV is Gross weight . That is the reason Winnebago developed the strong light weight Materials !  But Best of luck !  Frank
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 28, 2019, 04:28 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 02:21 PM
No idea!! That is where I need guys like you to tell me what you know..

You can skin the whole thing with aluminum like the original...and it is durable and easy to mount/screw things to it.  EPDM rubber roofs are the industry standard now...tough enough, but you have to take more care and use lap sealant when mounting things to it.  Or you could go hog wild and go with a full fiberglass roof...super durable, but heavier and you have to deal with resin and fiberglass cloth and a LOT of sanding.

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 28, 2019, 04:31 PM
Quote from: Froggy1936 on September 28, 2019, 04:25 PM
Mike, Very nice work. But as you stated, finding construction of so much light weight materials , Is a Must , What you are building will be overweight empty ! And may be heavier than tires can support ! The most important part of any RV is Gross weight . That is the reason Winnebago developed the strong light weight Materials !  But Best of luck !  Frank

It looks light enough the way he did it, with only upper wall sections being thicker plywood, etc. 

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 28, 2019, 04:33 PM
Oops!  My bad!  Mike didn't add any plywood to the walls.  The plywood in the pictures is original from the factory in the cab area.

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 05:33 PM
The thicker plywood walls are what was the factory installed..I didn't install that nor am I going to do anything with that..I am glad that the plywood is there..Something solid!!
I used 2x3 kiln dried DF wood..Before I cut them, they weighed 4 pounds 12 ounces each..Then cut off about 15 ounces with the taper cut for the rain run off profile ..
But lets round it of to 4 pounds each..I used 18 of them..Doubled up at the end wall and front transition..That is 72 pounds..
I used 5 sheets of ACX plywood..About 20 pounds?? each..100 pounds..
Maybe 20 pounds for the blocks made between the rafters..
And the 1x4--1x3 stringers25 pounds??
Right at 215 pounds for everything..
I used this postal scale of mine..But could not get a shot of the display..Just too sunny to see it..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2019, 05:56 PM
I was curious of the original weight of the factory roof..here is a section of it in all of it glory!!
3 feet length by it's full width..I put it on my bathroom scale (I brought the scale outside..not the panel inside to weigh it :)rotflmao )It weighed 25 pounds..Taking off 21 feet of roofing would be 7 of these panels in essence//25x7 equals 175 pounds..
Now I dont have any insulation nor the final inside panel sheeting yet..that will add some
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: yellowrecve on September 28, 2019, 11:46 PM
Strength is in the design. Your doing fine. Put some backing in for your overhead cabinets and walls to attach to. That will add strength.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on September 29, 2019, 07:58 AM
Hey Mike.  How is the floor in your Winnebago?  Did you have to replace any of it?  If you do, now would be the time to replace all the rubber fuel lines at the top of your fuel tank...so you won't have to drop the tank later.


Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 29, 2019, 07:20 PM
Hey Kevin,How is the floor?? It needs to be replaced..I am finding out as I go, that there is NOTHING on this motorhome  that isn't going to need to be replaced, repaired, fixed, altered, or any other word you can think of!!This is one of the rot spots of the floor..The second pic shows the drivers floor board..Sunlight is shining through that big dent..I need to look into that..The fuel tanks will need to come out..Neither of the fuel sending units worked and there was that fuel delivery problem, trying to get it home at 20 miles an hour..Cleaning out the tanks will be something I want to do

I have other pics and I will post them tonight..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 29, 2019, 11:01 PM
Quote from: yellowrecve on September 28, 2019, 11:46 PM
Strength is in the design. Your doing fine. Put some backing in for your overhead cabinets and walls to attach to. That will add strength.
I need to set up the floor plan for everything so that I know where to install the backing..What cabinets will go where..What walls to make at what location..I need to draw out a good floor plan..Check this "backing" out from the factory..A 20 gauge sheet steel insert glued to the foam..Then a screw was driven into it..It worked..The pics show were the shower stall was..those 2 strips of vertical steel mounted the walls around the stall..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 29, 2019, 11:24 PM
This is what I will do next..Kinda burnt out on the roof ..It has the plastic sheeting on it and it will be good for now..The lower left front wheel skirting..It is bent!! Maybe a tire blew out and flung it self around..So I have the corner curved trim off and working on the horizontal trim..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 29, 2019, 11:31 PM
That horizontal trim just pulled off by hand..Because the wood behind it is gone..rotted..Then the staples holding the trim after the wheel well area actually have some wood there..I don't have any pliers that can reach in deep enough to grab the staple..So I used a die grinder with a cutting wheel and just very carefully ground off the head of the staple..Worked pretty good actually with minimal damage to the aluminum trim..And was able to get the trim off..That whole wheel well section is just hollow..Is is all going to need to be rebuilt..I ran out of daylight to take more pictures after the trim was off..More tomorrow
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on September 30, 2019, 07:31 PM
I wonder if it was someone fighting to get a tire out from under there when it was not quite up high enough? Wouldn't take much yanking on a tire to bend that thin metal.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 30, 2019, 08:34 PM
Hey Rick..
A bent area is the least of my problems!! The sill stringer, made of wood is gone..rotted bad..That is what connects the wall to the floor!!..It needs to be replaced bad..I have a plan and it won't be too hard to accomplish..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 30, 2019, 08:38 PM
With 2x2 studs, I will stilt the ceiling to the floor..Holding up the wall..That holds the wall up till I get a new sill stringer in there..Then I am going to rebuild the lower area with steel..That is the plan..It will work!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 01, 2019, 08:30 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 30, 2019, 08:38 PM
With 2x2 studs, I will stilt the ceiling to the floor..Holding up the wall..That holds the wall up till I get a new sill stringer in there..Then I am going to rebuild the lower area with steel..That is the plan..It will work!!

Sounds like a good plan!

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 01, 2019, 10:02 AM
I would use aluminum for two reasons, weight first and foremost and rust second. You are attaching aluminum siding to it and aluminum on steel is galvanic corrosion big time.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 01, 2019, 10:04 AM
Looking at how this thing was constructed as you are laying it out you can definitely see it was never designed to last more than ten years. They knew darn right well it was going to rot.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 01, 2019, 11:05 AM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 01, 2019, 10:02 AM
I would use aluminum for two reasons, weight first and foremost and rust second. You are attaching aluminum siding to it and aluminum on steel is galvanic corrosion big time.
You have a good point in regards to weight and corrosion..I need to think this through..If i was to use steel for the frame, I could weld it..I don't have a welder that can weld aluminum..Concentrate on making the steel frame as light as possible..Use galvanized steel for rust prevention? Maybe a strip of black butle tape as an adhesive and separator to keep the steel from touching the original aluminum siding?..That original sill piece is sized at 1.5x3.5..But it is some sort of hardwood..The only real hardwood available around here is oak..1x4 that would be glue laminated together to create that new sill is the only idea I am coming up with..That skirting below the floor line didn't stand a chance to last long..There it is just being clobbered with rain and stones being kicked up from the tires..The other side of the motorhome is pretty much the same story.. Just no original dent as was shown on the left side..I will be working on it..More to come 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 01, 2019, 01:55 PM
You can still work with wood, there is a product out there called CPES and I used it many years ago working on boats. I used to buy it from an outfit in Washington State called Rot Doctor but I believe they changed hands because they were always great people to talk to but the last time I tried to talk to someone there they were flat out nasty! I did some research and found the original maker of the product and he is still selling it. I forget his name, it is on my computer somewhere but do a search for "CPES Epoxy" and you will come up with a lot of good information. It will make most wood pretty much impervious to water and rot. Within reason of coarse.


Here is a link to the original maker of the CPES and a lot of info on it and some of his other wood restoration products.


http://www.smithandcompany.org/CPES/ (http://www.smithandcompany.org/CPES/)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 01, 2019, 01:58 PM
This epoxy and Fillet filler would be good for you to use in places where it is too hard to get to the rotted wood or there is just a small section that is not structural.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 01, 2019, 03:44 PM
Check this photo out..This is one of the main reasons that these coaches are so rare anymore..And when you do find one, it is way too far gone for consideration to restore..
This is the siding just aft of the entry door..do you see a major problem here in regards to how it was installed?? When water would run down the wall, unless the aluminum horizontal trim piece was perfectly sealed..the water would actually run INSIDE to the walls..The brown siding should have the white siding on top of it to shed the water..In this configuration, it would draw it in..And it would be trapped to rot the wood..Come on..a little common sense is really missing here..You tube is loaded with RV repair videos..There is one guy that has a business out of Georgia that specializes in repair of the shoddy workmanship that comes straight from the factory..Especially the roofs that fail during the warranty period ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: c farmer on October 02, 2019, 07:04 PM
WoW what a project.  I need to replace the ceiling in my bathroom.  Not sure on how to do it but you have me scared now to tear into it. . 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 02, 2019, 10:20 PM
Quote from: c farmer on October 02, 2019, 07:04 PM
WoW what a project.  I need to replace the ceiling in my bathroom.  Not sure on how to do it but you have me scared now to tear into it. . 
Believe me, I know what I am doing..I have watched at least a half of a dozen videos on you tube on RV repair :)rotflmao And besides to add to that I played a RV repairman on TV..!!
The only advice from me on the ceiling..Go slow and try to bring down the ceiling in a way that you can use it as a template to make the new ceiling piece..Here is a couple of pics for the front right corner..The second pic shows up into the fender where the 2x4 sill stringer use to be..Nice fresh plywood..Finally!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 02, 2019, 10:24 PM
I did get something that I won't have to repair, replace.. These 2 propane tanks feel as if they are full!! Who would have thunk it..That other pic shows that sill again..rotted..
Can't wait to get this all ripped then I can start rebuilding..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 07, 2019, 10:03 PM
I have real problems now..Investigating that big dent on the drivers side, I found all of this..Everything is just rotted..I think the dash will need to come out to fix this and that involves a bunch..Including removing the front windshield frame..Didn't know it was going to be this bad..

This is going to be a big challenge..I have cut out the instrument panel..Just cut the wiring out as needed..Everything under the dash was just a big hack job of splices and rework..I will rewire this whole thing easy enough..rebuild the dash..Everything
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 07, 2019, 10:08 PM
Oh and by the way...I love a challenge like this!!  It really is'nt going to be hard to do..I spent about 2 hours just looking this all over and how it is put together..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 08, 2019, 07:58 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 07, 2019, 10:08 PM
Oh and by the way...I love a challenge like this!!  It really is'nt going to be hard to do..I spent about 2 hours just looking this all over and how it is put together..

Thanks for all the detailed pictures!  This is a great project, and a lot of people are going to benefit from this as they restore their own Winnebagos.

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 10:05 AM
Thanks Kevin..I appreciate your encouragement..I will be taking plenty of pictures..You can look forward to that..Mike
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 08, 2019, 11:29 AM
Mike, Here is a video from a couple that is doing the same as you, or they were. They never finished the videos so I have no idea if they finished the project or not but in thid video they show the windshield removal and apparently it is not hard.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc7D6Omq1iQ&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc7D6Omq1iQ&feature=youtu.be)


Here is part two and three


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RghxnS6VY2Q&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RghxnS6VY2Q&t=1s)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT41OLB1c5c&t=33s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT41OLB1c5c&t=33s)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 11:49 AM
Hi Rick,

Thanks for the links!! I did watch this series when I just brought the motorhome home..Thinking that mine will never be that much to do..But video one shows the results of the face removal..You will be seeing mine soon enough..They had the same leaks at the front lower part of the side windows..All plywood in there and that is part of what holds the dash in place..Metal brackets screwed into the plywood..My plywood actually had mushrooms growing out from it!!

Mike
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 11:54 AM
The last of the 3 videos was uploaded in Jan 2018..Nearly 2 years ago..I don't know what to think..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 08, 2019, 02:58 PM
Yea, it's a shame they did not follow through but from what I can gather they are in the film industry so I am thinking that maybe work got good and either they sold or scrapped it or just got to busy.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 11:11 PM
I put the front end up on stands..Those are the Harbor Freight heavy duty stands and I have them all the way down when it comes to the height adjustment..Much safer and it still gave me about 5-6 inches higher than when the wheel was on..I wanted to get under the left wheel well and see what caused the big dent in the side wall and floor board..Pretty sure that a tire blew..The tread caught the emergency brake cable and yanked it down ward..Bending everything..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 11:20 PM
That electrical cable for the headlight is not original..Another hack wire repair..And the emergency cable looks yanked..Tire just blew and flung it self all in there
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 11:26 PM
Here is a shot of it looking forward..Oh YEA!..Then you just take all the parts and put them in the back..Compare these pictures with what I showed at the first of all this!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 11:42 PM
Working on removing the face..The grills are mounted with their own screws..The perimeter trim around the grill does nothing to hold the grill on..The screws around the grills and headlights were pretty much just rusted snap off..They were originally about 1.25 inches long and go all the way to the metal shell..Holding on to the skin of the face..This poor motorhome must have just sat out in the rain without ever having any kind of cover on it
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 08, 2019, 11:55 PM
The skin has a blue foam backer but the foam is not glued to the metal shell..Peels right off..You just slide a 4 inch drywall trowel in between and it lifts right off..
Need to get the windshield frame out now before the face skin comes off..The screws holding the windshield were rusted out along the top edge..Bottom edge screws came right out but the ones along the vertical sides are frozen ..They go into a structural steel piece..I will show that tomorrow.. Maybe get the windshield out tomorrow too..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 09, 2019, 11:19 AM
Are you using one of those smaller impact drivers on the screws? I have found they work wonders on the rusted stuff. As long as the bit has something to grip.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 09, 2019, 09:22 PM
Hi Rick,
There wasn't anything I could do to work out these screws holding the windshield frame in..The Aluminum frame is screwed to a steel frame of the coach..This created the worst electrolysis welding together that I have ever seen..Using that 4 inch stainless putty trowel, I was able to hammer it in between the 2 metals. Moving it down the frame about 1/2 inch at a time..Finally was able to create a separation between the steel and aluminum..But I had to take a Dremel grinder with one of those flex extensions on it ..And a grinding stone to grind off the head of the screw...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 09, 2019, 09:29 PM
Using this stone grinder..Shaved off the head of the screw..Then with a chisel, just slightly bend the aluminum frame above the shaft of the screw to clear it..I will straighten the frame later...I just created a 1/8th inch lift to clear the screw..There was 3 screws on each side..Had to do this on all six screws!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 09, 2019, 09:38 PM
I was ready to punch it out..The suspense must be killing you!! :D    placed this rope across the top to catch it if it fell out..I didn't have to worry about that at all!!This frame was so glued in...WOW!!..I just worked around the perimeter as best as I could with a trim knife to cut the seal..Then with a plastic hammer..I worked the bottom of the frame..Just a bunch of real light blows all along the bottom and it started to move!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 09, 2019, 09:49 PM
So here I am running in and out of the motorhome..Pounding the frame with the plastic hammer then jumping outside to see how it was going..Finally had enough gap to get my fingers into the bottom edge and I untied the rope..Those center strips at the middle top and bottom of the windshield frame are NOT welded to the frame..But I took the screws out holding them just to wiggle them some to help break the seal of the frame.. Finally popped totally loose and I lifted it down to the ground..It weighs about 75-80 pounds..IT IS OUT!! I did this totally by my self..So if anybody else is doing a project like this and has help..it can be done..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 10, 2019, 09:27 AM
The ones in that video are out in the Arizona desert and I will bet that the unit never left the desert so I will also bet all of the seals and caulk on theirs was dried out plus no water to cause the electrolysis. That is probably why theirs just came right out.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 10, 2019, 11:09 PM
In those videos, it was shown the same damage to the front corners from water getting in..Saying that the windshield frame just popped out..I am not buying that..After going through what I have done so far..it is a TON of work..All of those screws that had to be ground off..etc..It is not as easy she was making it sound even in the best of conditions..
If anyone is thinking of doing this same project..You are in for some work..But do it slowly and walk away for awhile if you get flustered..DO NOT reach for a bigger hammer if something is not coming apart like you hoped it would..This motorhome was put together very quickly in a factory new setting..For this one, it has been 46 years since..All that time to rot and rust..Just be patient with it..It is actually faster to go slow with it ..If you are trying to rip it apart fast, you will screw things up which will take longer to repair..Okay..let me hop down off my soapbox..
The water nozzles and the pivot points for the windshield wipers need to come off ..Here is the laid out parts
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 10, 2019, 11:18 PM
The front skin is in 2 pieces..Around the perimeter are screws here and there that need to be removed..Most were easy because they were either missing or screwed into rotted wood..The 2 shown in the 3rd picture were easy because they had never seen water being located under that aluminum trim piece that covers the center
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 10, 2019, 11:28 PM
The left (drivers) side gave me a little problem..There was one screw..frozen again that went through the skin..wood..then metal that I couldn't get out..Just ground off the head..But the screw was still holding on to the wood that is glued to the skin..With my trusty 4 inch trowel blade..just slid it between the skin and the wood..working it slowly apart..finally just let go and off it came leaving the wood..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 10, 2019, 11:34 PM
Here is the back side of each piece..With the rotted wood, you can easily use it to create the template for the fresh wood..Last pic shows them set aside
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 10, 2019, 11:42 PM
Here is the face totally without anything..It is solid but rusty..I really like the fact that it is solid!! The metal skin is welded to the frame..No need to remove it for anything.. What I was thinking in regards to the repair of the rust..Sand it all down and then apply a bed liner spray in coating on it..super protected and where the grill shows the black would look awesum!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 11, 2019, 12:01 AM
So to sum this up..In order to get to the wood rotted on each front corner..you have to remove the dash..in order to remove the dash..you have to remove the fron skin to get to several screws holding the dash that are located under the skin..In order to remove the skin..you have to remove the windshield frame..
All the screws were out..on each --side along the top..everything so I thought..But there was this bracket on the bottom that needed to be released..Then it just lifted right out..Easy,RIGHT!! :)clap
Bunch of work on everything..If I have it wide open like this..Lets get it done!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 11, 2019, 12:05 AM
Finally!! Full exposure of the rotted corners :'(
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Elandan2 on October 11, 2019, 07:33 AM
I have to ask, are you going to remember where all those screws go?   :D
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 11, 2019, 09:33 AM
What screws? Most of them broke off. :D  I doubt that he cares, once all the new wood is put in and everything starts to go back together I am sure he will be a bit more precise than the factory was.


Mike, In thinking about that video you are probably right since that unit had a lot of the same rot as yours.
I am curious why you use a grinder on the screw heads instead of a drill? I usually drill out the top of the screw and that does not damage the fixture.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 11, 2019, 07:26 PM
Wow!  You are going for a full resto!  Awesome!  Now would be a great time to replace the heater core, since you have the dash out and easy access to the heater box.


Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 11, 2019, 10:14 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 11, 2019, 09:33 AM
What screws? Most of them broke off. :D  I doubt that he cares, once all the new wood is put in and everything starts to go back together I am sure he will be a bit more precise than the factory was.


Mike, In thinking about that video you are probably right since that unit had a lot of the same rot as yours.
I am curious why you use a grinder on the screw heads instead of a drill? I usually drill out the top of the screw and that does not damage the fixture.

I tried to use a drill one time around the vertical frame of the windshield..Maybe my drill bit was dull or something, but it just wouldn't cut it at all..The corner screws would have been impossible to get a straight shot..After so many screws, each of the trouble screws, I just reached for the grinder..I did do a little damage to the aluminum frame of the windshield.. but I can fix it.. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 11, 2019, 10:16 PM
Quote from: ClydesdaleKevin on October 11, 2019, 07:26 PM
Wow!  You are going for a full resto!  Awesome!  Now would be a great time to replace the heater core, since you have the dash out and easy access to the heater box.


Kev

I will be getting to that..There is nothing that won't be needing attention on with this motorhome..Grab some popcorn!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 11, 2019, 10:22 PM
Got to clear some more stuff out of the way..Emergency brake handle comes out and the cable is laying on the ground..This floor under the drivers area will need to come out completely..There is no way to straighten that out..Finally got a shot of the damage with the emergency handle out of the way..It looks like a 300 pound bowling ball was dropped on it..I was thinking how it would be nice to set it up where the floor could be unbolted and lifted out when ever service is needed on the brake master cylinder..Got to get out all the scrap metal first to see how I can do that..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 11, 2019, 11:03 PM
Here is the steering column tilt adjuster thingy..I think this is the one and only thing on this whole motothome that I won't need to work on..That is one stout piece of machinery!!
I am just getting things out of the way..Just got to figure out that floor..What a mess..it is pretty much welded in all around the perimeter..That is about it for tonight. Got off work late tonight..didn't get much time with it..Weekend is here!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 12, 2019, 08:43 AM
Is there a dark stain in the middle of the drivers seat? I figure when that tire let go and the floor got waffled like that the driver definitely had an OH SH** moment! To their credit they must not have slammed on the brakes since the unit is not crashed.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 12, 2019, 11:57 AM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 12, 2019, 08:43 AM
Is there a dark stain in the middle of the drivers seat?

What do you want me to do..Go back and check it!??!..I did notice that the air inside the coach did freshen up a bit after I took the seats out!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 12, 2019, 05:21 PM
 :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 12, 2019, 11:01 PM
Here is the tear out the heater plenum..Upright brackets that held the heater box..The plenum was held to the heater box on the far right side..After that it just floated..No other connections and it just sat on top of the fan shroud box..This must have been a gigantic rattle under there going down the road
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 12, 2019, 11:08 PM
Here is where the plenum was setting on top of the fan shroud..And it happens to be the very last piece of factory original carpet left in the coach..It is now totally empty of that orange stuff and this is where it ended up at..the bottom of the trash can :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 12, 2019, 11:17 PM
And here is the fan shroud popped out..Every screw holding it came out with ease..Except the very last one. $@!#@! .It stripped out and you can see on the right side, the die grinder with the cut off blade..The shroud was stuck down with sealing tape..Just had to do a little prying to get it to break loose..Alright..I am done now..There is nothing more that needs to come out..It is time to get some repairs going..I ran the shop vac over everything..This whole thing is just so dirty!!..I am going to do the right side repair first to build my confidence ..The floor board is in great shape and nothing will be needed on it..Just got to get that wall repaired..More tomorrow
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 13, 2019, 07:04 PM
DAMN!!!!! That is about as complete as you can possibly get as far as a tear down! Even the fan shroud. Just remembering where all this goes is going to be monumental!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 13, 2019, 10:32 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 13, 2019, 07:04 PM
DAMN!!!!!
Rick, your word is perfect!! Can't describe it any better!!
Now, the next few photos are not for the faint of heart..These will make or break anyone else thinking of doing this..I made some large mistakes today..But I can fix it easy enough..If I had just looked over on how this is built a little better, I would have had much more done today..But I screwed up..Now maybe the children should be escorted out of the room..Maybe some might be offended..And of course you all know that I am just kidding around!!  But don't say I didn't warn you!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 13, 2019, 10:41 PM
I tried to remove this steel panel..In order to have access to the rotted wood..I went down to Home Depot and bought some steel cutting Sawzall blades..thinking I could cut the welds..Pull the steel out..fix the wood..then install this steel back into it's place..Not a chance!!Don't try to do this..Those welds are extra hard and it just won't work..So then I tried to cut just the perimeter with the die grinder..Mistake again..I shouldn't have done that..And the rest of the photos will explain why..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 13, 2019, 10:49 PM
With the door being in a place as it is, this panel is a short lower section..The seam of the outside wall is just a slip in..The lower slips into the upper..Inside the fender wells are several screws that secure the steel framing to the plywood of the wall..So I took down the wall..Just the bottom half..It actually fell out after grinding those screws off!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 13, 2019, 10:53 PM
This is where finally I was able to get out the rot and make some straight cuts to create a clean replacement..This shows where the rot was and how easy it will be to replace it with some CDX plywood..Believe me..I have this under control..I can fix this!! That is a new piece of 2x4 pressure treated..That is what I will use for this project to fix all that sill wood
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 13, 2019, 10:55 PM
Now remember..This is the "Easy side"..I really don't know how I will fix the other side yet..But I learned how not to do it on this side..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 13, 2019, 11:02 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 13, 2019, 07:04 PMJust remembering where all this goes is going to be monumental!
Getting it all back together will be easy!!..Just read this thread backwards..Seriously!! The fan shroud will be the first to go back in!! :)rotflmao
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 14, 2019, 07:36 AM
Amazing, Flipping Amazing. This is going to help a hole lot of folks. Probably encourage those who are a little timid to start to start. Well done mate, well done. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Elandan2 on October 14, 2019, 07:54 AM
Looking at the "other" side, couldn't you use a jack to push the floor up into position again? I know in ours, there is a couple of small square tubes inside the floor to provide support for the seat. Then the outer channel could be bent back into position from the outside.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 14, 2019, 09:57 PM
Quote from: Elandan2 on October 14, 2019, 07:54 AM
Looking at the "other" side, couldn't you use a jack to push the floor up into position again? I know in ours, there is a couple of small square tubes inside the floor to provide support for the seat. Then the outer channel could be bent back into position from the outside.
I will get back to you on that..The metal is so stretched, I don't think it would push back flat again..It is going to take some hard work to do that fix..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 14, 2019, 09:59 PM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on October 14, 2019, 07:36 AM
Amazing, Flipping Amazing. This is going to help a hole lot of folks. Probably encourage those who are a little timid to start to start. Well done mate, well done. Keep up the good work.

Thanks for the words of encouragement!! I am just wondering how many people are reading all of this..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 14, 2019, 10:11 PM
In regards to this repair section..The new Plywood is going to be glued to the original foam..I did a test glue up, because I saw another thread of the attempts to glue plywood to foam without the foam being eaten by the glue..Liquid nails is what I used to glue that top board to secure it to the aluminum skin..Worked great for that..But never used it for foam to plywood during the roof construction..Liquid nails has reformulated the glue as a latex base..I think it use to be a hydrocarbon base..But it works fantastic..Small piece of ply to a scrap piece of foam..Over night clamp..I am totally blown away on the strength of the bond..Did the usual zig zag application..Mated the 2 pieces and kind of wiggled them back and forth..That spread the glue flat and then clamped over night..Worked Great.. :)clap   
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 14, 2019, 10:23 PM
I have a Wild Hair idea.. Hm? Fixing that port wall..Drop the bottom half like I did with the little starboard side piece..I need to think this through but it might work..Stilt the ceiling up to hold it ..2x4 from ceiling rafter to floor..Screwed together at both ends with that pocket screw system..Maybe 5-6 of those..The wall at the midpoint line is nothing but foam..Cut the foam with that 4 inch putty knife that I have shown earlier..That blue foam is easy to cut..Take out all the mounting screws..I need to look at the back corner to see how that is attached..I need to fix the first panel before I touch this full length wall..But that is the idea..Get it out and lay it on the ground on top of moving blankets..Doesn't get scratched that way..And then repair everything..I think that is what is going to happen..What do you think?? Hm?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: tmsnyder on October 15, 2019, 08:06 AM

Oh don't worry.  We are all reading it.   We just think you are nuts! :)rotflmao :)rotflmao


I'm really enjoying this thread  :) :)ThmbUp





Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 14, 2019, 09:59 PM
Thanks for the words of encouragement!! I am just wondering how many people are reading all of this..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 15, 2019, 09:23 AM
If you go to this thread, http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=15070.0 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=15070.0) , You will see that they took out the entire lower side wall and there are some steel beams in there. I think the two of you can be learning from each other on how to do your rebuilds. Although we have not heard from them lately and you seem to be way ahead of them in some respects.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 15, 2019, 11:52 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 15, 2019, 09:23 AM
If you go to this thread, http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=15070.0 (http://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=15070.0) , You will see that they took out the entire lower side wall and there are some steel beams in there. I think the two of you can be learning from each other on how to do your rebuilds. Although we have not heard from them lately and you seem to be way ahead of them in some respects.

I have read and re read that thread and on post 6 it shows this big rotted area and I can not figure out where that section is..The big thing on this is to preserve the skin..It would next to impossible to re create it..And I am seeing it cut up..There really isn't any reason to do that..I just wish they were back on this with any kind of update..Would be interesting to see it and how it is coming along..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 15, 2019, 11:58 PM
Small progress report :)clap Actually going back together some..I made the new plywood piece that replaced the rot on the right side of the coach..With a typical paper template and using CDX plywood..Then gluing it up like crazy..You got to be careful doing a big piece like this..It will float on the wet glue as you are setting the weights on it and go out of position..After setting all the dumbbells and water jugs on it, it had shifted some..I was able to tap the edge and it re positioned itself..That will set over night..I sanded the blue foam lightly just to clean it up using that palm sander..All it really did was remove the original glue remnants..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2019, 12:02 AM
I am going to use this pressure treated wood to rebuild the lower skirt fender well area..Using that pocket screw system and the construction glue..That will never rot away!! :)clap Those two open areas will be stuffed with blue foam..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 16, 2019, 08:05 AM
 :)ThmbUp WOW!Nicely done.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Elandan2 on October 16, 2019, 08:46 AM
Actually, you can get new aluminum skin.  https://www.all-rite.com/aluminum-siding-metal.html (https://www.all-rite.com/aluminum-siding-metal.html)
I can imagine how much the shipping would be, but...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2019, 10:00 PM
Quote from: Elandan2 on October 16, 2019, 08:46 AM
Actually, you can get new aluminum skin.  https://www.all-rite.com/aluminum-siding-metal.html (https://www.all-rite.com/aluminum-siding-metal.html)
I can imagine how much the shipping would be, but...

Starting at 8.40 a square foot!! Not a lineal foot..SQUARE!! Lets see..About 4 feet wide x 21 feet long..Over $700 just for the sheet..Now ship it..Right!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2019, 10:04 PM
I glued and screwed the frame work together..Pocket hole system really clamps the joint..With glue in between.WOW!!And then test fit it..Then glued it to the bottom of the new and old plywood..And the skin..We will see how it looks tomorrow
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2019, 10:10 PM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on October 16, 2019, 08:05 AM
:)ThmbUp WOW!Nicely done.

Thanks..!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: tmsnyder on October 17, 2019, 08:13 AM
That Kreg system for pocket screws is really handy.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 17, 2019, 09:21 PM
I welded back in that sheet metal that I cut out earlier..My mistake that I made earlier..Notice that it is a far away shot..I am a terrible welder especially with sheet steel..But it is back in as that sheet metal has several holes to set screws into the new plywood..This second pic is a fix where the skin had separated from the foam..Reglued..I think tomorrow will be the day the repaired wall panel will go back in :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 18, 2019, 10:02 AM
Just noticed the gas tank behind the steps. Interesting. You got me hooked. Great job. Following this is better than watching "Dallas" Oooops Not sure you guys would remember the tv show Dallas. Hehehehe
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2019, 11:56 AM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on October 18, 2019, 10:02 AM
Just noticed the gas tank behind the steps. Interesting. You got me hooked. Great job. Following this is better than watching "Dallas" Oooops Not sure you guys would remember the tv show Dallas. Hehehehe

I bet it was YOU that shot J.R...It had to be you..During that summer we all had to wait till the fall season..Vegas was laying down odds and taking bets..Even the cast members of the show didn't know, because they produced 3-4 scenes reveling the culprit and only the producers knew which scene they were going to use..Magazine covers with"Who shot JR" With Larry Hagman grinning on the cover with his cowboy hat..I do remember..And both of us are getting old!!
Yes ..2 gas tanks..The front one is an after market tank..Probable both filled with rotted gas..I haven't checked them yet..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2019, 11:18 PM
I happen to own a CNC Plasma steel cutter..BWAAA HAAA HAAA coff coff coff weeze :)rotflmao Got all the info on how all of these type of machines work from cnczone dot com and decided to build one for myself!!
I needed to make a new skin for the inside of the fender well..Instead of the original aluminum, this is 16 gauge galvanized cold roll steel..Heavier but lots more durable for all that happens in the wheel well..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2019, 11:20 PM
Here is the new compared to the old..The old is bent because the whole panel dropped to the ground when I first took it out D:oH!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2019, 11:24 PM
When I tried to fit the panel up, it wouldn't fit..Couldn't get it to lift into the original seam seal..It was hitting the new plywood on the steel frame..Little bit of trim and it fitted right in..It is in!!! :)clap Fully screwed into place..Solid as a brick!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2019, 11:30 PM
Quote from: tmsnyder on October 17, 2019, 08:13 AM
That Kreg system for pocket screws is really handy.

I plan on using this Kreg system through out this restore..New cabinets..fixing these walls..I don't know how else it was done..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Elandan2 on October 19, 2019, 08:37 AM
You built your own plasma table, I'm impressed. Now you just have to build a roller to make the siding and you're all set.  :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=SWgLTJJ-RGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=SWgLTJJ-RGU)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 19, 2019, 09:54 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msLi_9I_ikU
Here is a goal worth striving for..This thing is just beautiful..
As for a siding replicator..If he did it..who knows what is ahead!!
There is many kit cars for the Shelby Cobra, VW kit cars...I was wondering what all it would take to replicate a old style brow face Winnebago..??
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 19, 2019, 11:07 AM
You have a CNC plasma cutter! I hate you!!! In the line of work I do restoring old military vehicles I would love to have one of those. I would say with your dedication to what you are doing and using the skins available through the outfit provided above you could make a new eyebrow. It would probably cost as much as buying a new modern coach but well worth it in the end.
I notice from all the clean and not rusty steel scraps under the plasma table and the fact that both it and the project are pretty much outdoors that you must be in the high desert area where it never rains and humidity is non existent.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 19, 2019, 11:25 AM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 19, 2019, 11:07 AM
You have a CNC plasma cutter! I hate you!!! In the line of work I do restoring old military vehicles I would love to have one of those. I would say with your dedication to what you are doing and using the skins available through the outfit provided above you could make a new eyebrow. It would probably cost as much as buying a new modern coach but well worth it in the end.
I notice from all the clean and not rusty steel scraps under the plasma table and the fact that both it and the project are pretty much outdoors that you must be in the high desert area where it never rains and humidity is non existent.

I live right in the heart of California..Near Fresno..we get about 10-12 inches of rain and plenty of fog..So humidity is there to worry about..What you are seeing in regards to the scrap under the table is Galvanized..16 gauge cold rolled galvanized..It stays that pretty light gray and never rusts..During the cutting of the steel, you use simple compressed air..with air having 80% nitrogen in it..it nitrates (super hardens) the edge where it is cut..so the edge won't rust either..That is why it looks so new under there..

I knew someone like you would respond the way you did..that is why, the hideous laugh!!  BWA HA Ha!! (cough)..

Go take a good look at that cnczone website..there is a section for home built  plasma machines..Any questions you might have..let me know..I have been running that table since 2009..I can cut 20 gauge all the way up to 5/8..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 19, 2019, 11:33 AM
I usually don't go above 1/4 inch steel..Because anything heavier and I can't get it on the table..I don't have any kind of forklift or hoist..so experience of the thick steel is limited..Each type of steel has its settings..speed..voltage..gap distance between the steel and the torch..It is something that need to be set before you cut..I can cut 1/4 steel like scissors cut paper..It is simply awesome!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 19, 2019, 04:54 PM
I would become single if I told my wife I was going to get on more thing that make sparks!!! I have two stick welders, i MIG welder and a TIG welder. I also have two sets of oxy/acetylene torches, one full size and one compact. I do not have a plasma cutter and that is on the list of things to get. I might get interested in a table but I simply do not have any room. I work out of a single car garage and all my other stuff is in storage containers. I used to do a LOT of fabrication but with all the health issues in the last couple years I have had to back off. Cutting galvanized can be rather hazardous to your health, I am sure you know that.


And yea, I always look around the garage when someone posts pictures. Always looking for neat tools. You also get a feel for what kind of work that person does by their tools.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 21, 2019, 11:39 PM
So I am getting everything ready to lift out the lower section of the port wall..Working on the rear corner..This poor motorhome..The whole bottom edge is just gone..the whole circle around this thing..As I am opening up the corner..Just little pieces of wood keeps falling out..Now discovered the bottom apron on the back wall is totally rotted out..The more you dig the more you find..I can fix it..I have a plan
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 21, 2019, 11:46 PM
I took the rear door off..pretty much just being held there by the sealant around the edges..Someone had removed the trim piece earlier because it was being held with screws and the original staples were ground off..Then the bottom pretty much fell off..Just got to stay positive!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 22, 2019, 09:06 AM
I am assuming the bumper and all of that is welded on and that is why it is not being removed? Your dedication to this job is admirable, most of us would have reached for the matches by now.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 22, 2019, 09:49 PM
Hey Rick,
The receiver hitch is both bolted on and then welded to the front part of the bumper framework..So to get the bumper off, that weld will need to be cut..Then just unbolt everything from the frame rails..That panel on the rear just fell off when the trim piece was unscrewed..But to get the new wood in..The bumper has to be out of there..All I did today was get the rear axle up on stands and the rear tires off..Gets dark real soon now..I didn't get any pictures..Sorry
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Berlin-Tioga on October 23, 2019, 02:10 AM
We have a german saying/Sprichwort:


"Viel Feind, viel Ehr"


That's probably like: many foes, much honours  :D :)clap






Small tip for your glue-sliding problem: try some sugar grains between the parts. The don't interfere with the glue but reduce the sliding.




Keep on keepin' that dream alive!


Ben
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 23, 2019, 09:13 AM
Quote from: Berlin-Tioga on October 23, 2019, 02:10 AM





Small tip for your glue-sliding problem: try some sugar grains between the parts. The don't interfere with the glue but reduce the sliding.




Keep on keepin' that dream alive!


Ben


Are you talking about regular food grade sugar? I never heard of that before, interesting. Learn something new every day.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 23, 2019, 10:36 PM
Okay here is some ripping going on..I cut that weld holding the bumper on..Unbolted it and needed a floor jack to lift and set it down after rolling it outward. What a heavy beast..
So with it out of the way, I could pivot the rear panel upward..Rot Rot Rot :'(
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 23, 2019, 10:40 PM
Here is another view of the panel..the second pic shows the strip of wood that secured the rear panel to the floor..There was about 3 screws actually doing any thing to secure this piece to the floor..What a mess..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 23, 2019, 10:46 PM
Here is the floor that secured the rear panel..This floor is a layered plywood..1/4-3/4-1/4 layers..Not a very good system..A piece of steel to screw to would be better..The original installation of screws just split all this open..Yea..More work to fix this..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 23, 2019, 11:02 PM
I decided to remove all this rot from the skin..Peeling the skin away from all that foam goes fairly easy..Just taking time to slowly peel it off without bending the skin..So now I have a full size template to recreate all this..sigh!! $@!#@! Thinking of just using a 3/4 plywood for the full area..Or make a frame work like it originally was..Like I said way earlier..There is nothing on this that isn't going to be replaced remade or redone on this..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: tmsnyder on October 24, 2019, 01:14 AM
I wonder if it would have been easier to take the whole thing apart completely, I suppose there was always hope that there wouldn't be rot everywhere you looked.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 25, 2019, 09:47 PM
"I wonder if it would have been easier to take the whole thing apart completely, I suppose there was always hope that there wouldn't be rot everywhere you looked"

That would have been easier..I always like doing things the hard way!! :)rotflmao
Here is the remake of the rear wall..and the scraps I have to work with to take measurement..I ran out of daylight and energy..Should be ready to try and fit this up tomorrow ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 26, 2019, 09:24 PM
It is all framed up..A lot of work..But now there is wood where there use to be only foam..Wood to screw the taillights on...license plate..backup lights..Then glue and heavy stuff..After I set the frame on the ply with the glue, I just walked on it and that really settled the 2 layers together. Then a bunch of heavy stuff to hold it..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 26, 2019, 09:26 PM
I noticed this one one of the rims..This was an inner rim on the rear..The tire is holding air..Wonder what the problem is?? Maybe bent?? !-!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 27, 2019, 10:24 AM
Bent or maybe lug holes wallowed out? Or maybe marked as a bad tire from years before and never painted over? These are the things that you hate.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: tmsnyder on October 27, 2019, 08:56 PM
Maybe they were talking about the whole RV! :D
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 28, 2019, 01:01 AM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Superflex-RV-Rubber-Roof-Kit-8-5-ft-Wide-Camper-Roof-Repair-30-ft/282406640117
I was looking around for a roof system EDPM  TPO ..what ever I could find and research..Saw this on Ebay..It is a little longer than I need but maybe he offers it at 25 feet..Just wondering what everyone thinks.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 28, 2019, 01:02 AM
Quote from: tmsnyder on October 27, 2019, 08:56 PM
Maybe they were talking about the whole RV! :D

Come on!! Be Nice!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 28, 2019, 09:47 AM
If you look down lower in that ad there are other size options, this one is 20 foot, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Superflex-RV-Rubber-Roof-Kit-8-5-ft-Wide-Roof-Repair-Camper-20-ft/272601663465?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60695%26meid%3D8be2e87d60fd4131ab279a958b263fa7%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D282406640117%26itm%3D272601663465%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Superflex-RV-Rubber-Roof-Kit-8-5-ft-Wide-Roof-Repair-Camper-20-ft/272601663465?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D60695%26meid%3D8be2e87d60fd4131ab279a958b263fa7%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D12%26mehot%3Dpf%26sd%3D282406640117%26itm%3D272601663465%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851).


I don't know anything about this stuff but if the companies he mentions are using it I would assume it is a good product since they certainly do not want issues with roof leaks on new units.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Berlin-Tioga on October 28, 2019, 05:21 PM
@ Rick
Yes, regular food grade sugar. The crystals reduce the sliding.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: TerryH on October 28, 2019, 07:14 PM
Great tip! Thank you very much.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 28, 2019, 09:31 PM
Quote from: Berlin-Tioga on October 28, 2019, 05:21 PM
@ Rick
Yes, regular food grade sugar. The crystals reduce the sliding.

Not buying this story about sugar..It would act as small ball bearings..making it even more slippery during the laminating ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 28, 2019, 09:38 PM
Sugar crystals are sharp edged, like salt but salt crystals are rectangular where sugar is multifaceted. Then again, it is processed sugar so I don't know. Have to get my magnifying glass out at morning coffee. Easiest way to find out is the next time you are gluing just try a small sample piece.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 28, 2019, 09:50 PM
sprinkle a little sugar on your kitchen counter top and set a dinner plate on top of the sugar..slippery!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on October 29, 2019, 09:13 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 28, 2019, 09:50 PM
sprinkle a little sugar on your kitchen counter top and set a dinner plate on top of the sugar..slippery!!

It would still be something worth experimenting with.  The author of the suggestion is from Germany, and those Old World craftsmen might know a trick or two that we don't know about here across the pond.

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 29, 2019, 09:57 AM
What I am going to do next time on laminating a big piece like that is use dowel pins to locate the piece..First lay the 2 pieces together dry..no glue..Drill maybe 2 locations for a 1/4 inch dowel wood pins..Then they would act as locators for the exact position of the piece..Sort of like what is used on cylinder heads when you are reinstalling them on the block..Steel dowels that must drop into the holes on the block..Perfect positioning that way..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 30, 2019, 10:37 AM
A day without a post?! You are slacking off here Mike!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2019, 10:56 AM
Hey Rick,I got caught up in the world series..but I am working on it..Here is the rear panel frame work and I was trying a stain system for the wood..Went to Lowes and found some product to try out..I will be needing to figure out a wood color to stain all the new wood that will go into the walls..to finish them nice..Thought this piece would be a good test bed..This first can is some sort of primer to help the stain smooth out on raw wood..It was easy to apply..Sucked it in like a sponge.. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2019, 11:04 AM
And then used this stain..finish in one stuff..Way NOT dark enough..But that is one coat..maybe 2-3 coats or just get a darker color..This piece of plywood used here is only .2 of an inch thick..It was .125 originally to the coach..Finding that thickness 1/8 is hard to do..In essence is is door skin that you need..But here it isn't available..And 1/4 ply is not available..It is this 5 mm thick import wood..So I guess that is what I will be using to skin the ceiling and walls..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2019, 11:06 AM
I am going to try and fit this frame up today to complete the rebuilding of the back panel..I hope it all goes well..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 30, 2019, 02:08 PM
I love the look of real wood, all these people that paint the interiors................ Eh. You don't want to go to dark or you will have light issues inside, it will look like a cave. Unless you are into that. I personally like dark wood but not in a vehicle with little natural light. It gets gloomy after a while.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2019, 07:48 PM
Yes I know what you mean about paint..White..light turquoise or something..Reminds me of a hospital room!! I laid on another coat of stain.  This color is not gonna do it for me..Too Yellow..I need a medium brown..Go back to Lowes and see what other colors they have..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2019, 08:06 PM
That staining (second coat) was this morning..So this afternoon is was dry enough to handle and I tried a test fit install..Just using a floor jack..couple blocks of wood..slowly just jacked it up into position..At the top there is a lip of foam that interlocks with the wood..went right in..and everything else did well too!! :)clap :)clap :)clap I need to make new metal for the lower skirt of the wood..The side that faces forward and glue it on the stained wood..Then I think I am ready to install!! Drill some holes to run new screws into the flooring..I am going to run the screws where the flooring hasn't split open from the original install..Showed you that earlier..It is hard to show you with pics but it fits GREAT!!
Now for those of you with a good eye..Notice the lower cut out of the new panel..Those measurements of it show that it is centered ..The coach was made about 1/2 inch off center..I checked and rechecked..Its off..Oh Well!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 31, 2019, 06:43 AM
Said it before and I'll say it again. WOW! Great stuff. Your doing an amazing job and I'm sure are an inspiration to many of us out here. Showing us that yes maybe I we can do some of this stuff our selves. Thanks. Keep up the good work. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: TerryH on October 31, 2019, 03:57 PM
Question for you Mike. Does your unit have those Type WDR AC electricity outlets - the very dangerous ones that connect by forcing the wiring onto V-blades that cut through the insulation to effect a connection. If so, are you upgrading them as you go?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 31, 2019, 04:49 PM
I am replacing all the electrical..except the main fuse box..It seems to be in good shape..But here is a close up of an original plug..with the push in connector..Worst way you can do it but it passes residential code or they wouldn't be available..What happens with a circuit put together like this, especially a circuit with heavy use, such as being plugged into with a hair dryer (1500 watts ) or a space heater, is the connection gets fatigued, making resistance, making the plug itself get hot..
Using the screws on the side is much better because there is so much more contact with the wire..stronger with more surface area..But for a typical electrician, making a loop at the end of the wire and then having to loop it around the screw ..takes too much time..time is money and they want to make more of it..
I plan on replacing all the outlets and with as much as I am going to be reworking these walls, all the wiring too... I am so deep into the thing, I might as well!!
here is a little update on the back wall..New metal for the skirt below the floor line..The area that gets road grime thrown at it..Glued and screwed in place..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 31, 2019, 06:58 PM
Those outlets are not the ones Terry was talking about, those there are fantastic compared to the blade type. I had those in my mobile home! The first time I had one fail and I got a look at it I went to the hardware store the next day and bought replacements for the entire place. They were all replaced within two days.


Here is one of those outlets, You just push the wires into those v notches as they pass by. The notches are visible in those center sections that bulge out to the sides. You can also see the plastic tabs that rotate out to grab the wall since they are not anchored to anything but paneling. Now think about that with all of the movement in an RV!


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiZTSMcp-ErON9qpMgB2AV6aPhr1uaG1CgwH39xk9Fl2x_uCIU1lA4fOF3U4r_lYtHn-gYD4xr7fQfun0BGuhW-naRmamQdA&usqp=CAY
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on October 31, 2019, 06:59 PM
Mike, Do you have aluminum wire in there? If so either replace it (best idea) or make sure you get outlets rated for aluminum wiring. Otherwise the connections WILL come loose.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: TerryH on October 31, 2019, 07:19 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 31, 2019, 06:58 PM
Those outlets are not the ones Terry was talking about, those there are fantastic compared to the blade type. I had those in my mobile home! The first time I had one fail and I got a look at it I went to the hardware store the next day and bought replacements for the entire place. They were all replaced within two days.


Here is one of those outlets, You just push the wires into those v notches as they pass by. The notches are visible in those center sections that bulge out to the sides. You can also see the plastic tabs that rotate out to grab the wall since they are not anchored to anything but paneling. Now think about that with all of the movement in an RV!


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/shopping?q=tbn:ANd9GcQiZTSMcp-ErON9qpMgB2AV6aPhr1uaG1CgwH39xk9Fl2x_uCIU1lA4fOF3U4r_lYtHn-gYD4xr7fQfun0BGuhW-naRmamQdA&usqp=CAY

The Type WDR were dangerous enough when originally installed, but if removed and reinstalled the danger was highly compounded.
An electrical fire is difficult to completely extinguish and often reignites, sometimes an hour later.
I know of two boats that were destroyed that way.
Anyone with these should seriously consider replacing them. It is not difficult, other than those - such as galley outlets - that are installed in an exterior wall.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 31, 2019, 07:45 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on October 31, 2019, 06:59 PM
Mike, Do you have aluminum wire in there?
No aluminum wiring..All of it copper..but I have to replace it all because of the rework of the walls..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 31, 2019, 10:04 PM
I was going to mount the rear wall this afternoon, but this brought me to a screeching halt..This is just below the plywood ..below the storage area in the rear..The grounding lugs for the 12 and 110 volt systems..All rusted and loose..When the back wall is on, there is about 2 inches of space to service this thing..Now is the time to fix it while it is all open like this..So why not get something new and install it inside the storage area..Where it is nice and dry and doesn't have road mud and salt thrown all over it..Run a bolt straight down through the plywood and that 2x2 steel floor support piece..Nice and tight and accessible..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 31, 2019, 10:07 PM
Then I found these special screws that will be perfect for mounting the wall back on..With a special head that is flat to keep from splitting the wood like a bugle head screw can do..All of this was at Home Depot
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 31, 2019, 10:37 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Self-Contained-Outlet-Receptacle-Snap-Plug-w-Plate-WDR-Mobile-Home-Camper-/153319102873 (https://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Self-Contained-Outlet-Receptacle-Snap-Plug-w-Plate-WDR-Mobile-Home-Camper-/153319102873)
Looks like that plug can still be bought even with the stories of them being so bad..I have never seen this type of plug..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: yellowrecve on October 31, 2019, 10:39 PM
You can not get a good ground going through wood and steel. The bolt will lose it's tightness because of the give in the wood. Find a spot clamping only metal or weld a tab onto a frame member. Your doing a nice job.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 31, 2019, 10:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuo2EFKfJ58
A video on installing those plugs..That looks like an instant fire hazard

quote author=yellowrecve link=topic=15119.msg94573#msg94573 date=1572575988]
You can not get a good ground going through wood and steel. The bolt will lose it's tightness because of the give in the wood. Find a spot clamping only metal or weld a tab onto a frame member. Your doing a nice job.

Yes I didn't even think of that with the wood..I sure would like to get it out of the area that you can't even reach into..needs to be solid mounted
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on November 01, 2019, 08:24 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 31, 2019, 10:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuo2EFKfJ58
A video on installing those plugs..That looks like an instant fire hazard

quote author=yellowrecve link=topic=15119.msg94573#msg94573 date=1572575988]
You can not get a good ground going through wood and steel. The bolt will lose it's tightness because of the give in the wood. Find a spot clamping only metal or weld a tab onto a frame member. Your doing a nice job.

Yes I didn't even think of that with the wood..I sure would like to get it out of the area that you can't even reach into..needs to be solid mounted


You could bring the bolts down through the wood and then down through the 2x2 steel...and then weld the bolt head to the 2x2.  Problem solved, permanently.

Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Elandan2 on November 01, 2019, 08:27 AM
You could use a bushing through the floor for the bolts to go through. That way the grounds would still be inside, but effectively bolted directly to the steel frame.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 01, 2019, 09:10 PM
Everyone with a good idea on how to do this..This is what I came up with..And it had to do with what I had laying around here in regards to steel and stuff..1/4 inch plate..Holes drilled to mount the ground bar..5/16 bolts and locking nuts..Cut a slot in the wood to let it drop down to the frame floor support..Clean it all up and weld it!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 01, 2019, 09:15 PM
STOP IT!! Don't laugh!! I am not a welder and never played one on TV :-[ ..I got the penetration of the steel but it is far from pretty..STOP LAUGHING!! :)rotflmao ..It worked and it is a lot better than what was being used for sure..And you can check on it to be sure all is tight with the wires
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 01, 2019, 09:17 PM
Now where was I before I was so rudely interrupted with this ground bar..Oh Yea!! The back wall...Tomorrow
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 01, 2019, 11:06 PM
 :)rotflmao  Where not laughing at you. Were laughing with you. Cause that looks like about what the rest of us do. Looks pretty good to me. As we all know it's all about the penetration. D:oH! Did I just say that.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 02, 2019, 05:58 PM
The welding um, err, welllll, ................................................... Kinda needs a little practice. W% W% :D
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: tmsnyder on November 02, 2019, 08:38 PM
We know you did it for originality's sake.  I believe Rick has noted that the Winnie's had some pretty poor welds on the frame extensions.


Someone's going to find that in 50 years and say 'this must be an original weld!'
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: tmsnyder on November 02, 2019, 08:50 PM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on November 01, 2019, 11:06 PM
:)rotflmao  Where not laughing at you. Were laughing with you. Cause that looks like about what the rest of us do. Looks pretty good to me. As we all know it's all about the penetration. D:oH! Did I just say that.


Equipment helps too.   Anyone ever stick weld with a Lincoln IdealArc 250?   The old round-top one?   I saw one at an estate sale and remembered my dad said he always wanted one.   He always had the AC-225 buzz box when I was growing up.  The difference is about 300lb, there's a lift hook on the top of the IdealArc.  Anyway, I called him and asked him if he wanted it and he said 'try it out and if it works buy it'.   I went in the garage and threw a piece of scrap steel on the table, pulled a stick out of a decrepit looking can, guessed at a setting, struck the tip of the rod on the piece and was greeted by the smoothest sounding arc laying down the most beautiful weld I think I ever did.   I bought the welder and about 100 lb of 7011 rod in sealed tins for $100.   The hardest part was telling my dad I was keeping it for a little while.   I eventually gave it to him a year or so later after I used it to repair my buddy's dump trailer which was a basket case, for his wedding present. 


Another year went by and I was talking to dad and he was telling about welding something up with the AC-225, I said why not the IdealArc, and he said oh-yeah, I should try that.  Next day he said 'holy cow, that's some welder! should have been using that all along!'


Long story short, you can weld with some welders (HF for instance) but all welders are not made equal, it can make a big difference.   Some just put a smile on your face!



Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 02, 2019, 08:57 PM
I just came in with the camera..Bunch of pictures to show..Originally the coach didn't have anything holding the corners together on this back wall..Can't because all there was foam down the length of the corner..So the only thing holding it together was the wrapping of the aluminum skin over each other and staples into the 1x2 that was there..I will be fixing that..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 02, 2019, 09:06 PM
I think those welders were called tombstone welder..looking like something in a cemetery..I have only used (barely) a Mig welder for anything I have ever done..But it really doesn't matter as it (that weld) is covered up with my FRESHLY INSTALLED WALL!!!!!!!!!!.. Just glued the top edge and slid it right up to fit with the foam that is at the top of the curve..Those screws with the big flat head worked Great!!..This wall is like a block concrete house!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 02, 2019, 09:13 PM
Used a couple of 2x3 to clamp the glue down to the skin..Clamps and a screw at each end held it tight..Reach up and add more glue and another 2x3..Just slowly iron it down..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 02, 2019, 09:25 PM
I think I am done with the remnants of the old wall..I cut it up and currently it is burning in my fireplace!! :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 03, 2019, 09:30 AM
Mike, I was just busting on you about the weld. You did not exactly have optimum conditions there and you had said before you were not a welder. If it were structural I would have ranted but this was fine for what you needed. I have not really said anything up to now about weight but this thing is going to be heavy! It will definitely be solid!! But you are going to want to put it on the scales and see where it is once you are done so you know if you need to make suspension upgrades. The GVWR was pretty much a farce on any RV and especially when slide in campers were involved since they all lied on the weights. Any of these were overweight as soon as you filled the water tank and installed the occupants. You just want to be sure that you are safe that's all. I guarantee that it will not fall apart in a crash like the originals did!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 03, 2019, 09:37 AM
Quote from: tmsnyder on November 02, 2019, 08:50 PM

Equipment helps too.   Anyone ever stick weld with a Lincoln IdealArc 250?   The old round-top one?   I saw one at an estate sale and remembered my dad said he always wanted one.   He always had the AC-225 buzz box when I was growing up.  The difference is about 300lb, there's a lift hook on the top of the IdealArc.  Anyway, I called him and asked him if he wanted it and he said 'try it out and if it works buy it'.   I went in the garage and threw a piece of scrap steel on the table, pulled a stick out of a decrepit looking can, guessed at a setting, struck the tip of the rod on the piece and was greeted by the smoothest sounding arc laying down the most beautiful weld I think I ever did.   I bought the welder and about 100 lb of 7011 rod in sealed tins for $100.   The hardest part was telling my dad I was keeping it for a little while.   I eventually gave it to him a year or so later after I used it to repair my buddy's dump trailer which was a basket case, for his wedding present. 


Another year went by and I was talking to dad and he was telling about welding something up with the AC-225, I said why not the IdealArc, and he said oh-yeah, I should try that.  Next day he said 'holy cow, that's some welder! should have been using that all along!'


Long story short, you can weld with some welders (HF for instance) but all welders are not made equal, it can make a big difference.   Some just put a smile on your face!


And if you see one of those tombstone welders and you want to buy it be SURE it is one of the OLD ones and not the newer ones from Home Depot and such. World of difference in weld quality. The old ones weight about 150-200 lbs. the new ones are half that much. That weight difference is in the transformer and means a lot more stable and consistent arc.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 03, 2019, 01:01 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on November 03, 2019, 09:30 AM
I have not really said anything up to now about weight but this thing is going to be heavy! It will definitely be solid!! But you are going to want to put it on the scales and see where it is once you are done so you know if you need to make suspension upgrades. The GVWR was pretty much a farce on any RV and especially when slide in campers were involved since they all lied on the weights.
I really don't think I have added that much weight to this..I think that I am about even..First there was 2 36 gallon water tanks on it at about 55 pounds each..Being replaced with a new plastic tank...There was 2 layers of carpet..gone..I was thinking of vinyl for the floors..There was these asbestos tiles laid in the rear area..Heavy!!  As for the roof, I showed that the original was only  a little lighter than the roof I installed..That original  roof was a failure when it was brand new..Making it flat like that with a 250 pound AC up there..It sagged from the beginning..Screwing things together in to foam was silly..No wonder it rotted so fast..Corners and structural integrity being relied upon with foam ...Really??..Yes I have added wood where there wasn't any before..But I don't think I am loading it down..Off sets from weight saving in other places 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 03, 2019, 01:21 PM
Hey Mr to a certain degree I did the same thing as your doing back in the day. You doing :)ThmbUp  it bag on and I would change a thing. Keep it up.. Your doing fantastic. I have to check in a few times a day to be sure I don't miss anything. Thanks for taking the time to post. Especially with a project this size.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 03, 2019, 06:32 PM
I would do it exactly the same way as you (if I had the smarts working with wood that you do). Just pointing out it would be a good idea to scale it when done.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 05, 2019, 09:04 PM
Time for the starboard wall lower half to come off..The aluminum trim piece that goes on the bottom of the skirt is missing..Thus all the wood confetti fell out on the road..So there wasn't the usual amount of wood scrap falling on the ground..I stilt the ceiling up with 2x3s and pocket hole screws to keep them in place..With the change of daylight saving time and the days just getting shorter, it might take longer to get things done..I will try to drop the wall off tomorrow
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 05, 2019, 10:56 PM
Just click on this link in picture 1 and then scroll down to this section on selling things..I wish you weren't so far away!!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 08, 2019, 08:51 PM
After breaking the glue line open..the seam..it pretty much just slipped off the joint and set on the sawhorses..Thing weighs about 60-70 pounds
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 08, 2019, 08:54 PM
Here it is on the ground..I will set up some moving blankets on the concrete and lay it on those..Then start rebuilding!!
Don't worry people..I have this way under control.. ???
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 08, 2019, 09:27 PM
 D:oH! :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)clap Your Nuts ;)  Your doing a great job.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 08, 2019, 10:14 PM
Are you doing this by yourself?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 08, 2019, 10:22 PM
Yep!!..No wife to help..divorced..No kids..never had any...So for all of you who think this project is too hard..Try doing it alone!! It is not that hard..Just think it through on every step..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 09, 2019, 08:54 AM
I know how you feel, most of what I do is by myself since my wife is unable to help for the most part and I am the type that if it needs to be done I am going to do it no matter what. As my disabilities mount I have to admit it is getting harder for the brain to admit that the body is just not 25 years old anymore. D:oH!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: tmsnyder on November 09, 2019, 10:03 AM
Reminds me of my cousin's house, he kept finding rot and replacing walls until all that was left of the original house was the foundation.  But when you're in the middle of it there's no way to know where you're going to end up.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 09, 2019, 07:05 PM
Hey Rick, Is that any better?? :)clap Been watching welding you tube videos..weldingtipsandtricks is a channel to learn from!!  Next I am going to remove my own appendix from my side..There is a vid on that and it looks easy :)rotflmao
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 10, 2019, 09:38 AM
Excellent!!! Other than a tiny bit of mill scale inclusion which is negligible there is nothing at all wrong with that weld. Weldingtipandtricks is an excellent site for welding videos. Weld.com is another.
Curious about your welder, I have the 180C which is the commercial version. The retail version the dials click into each position and the commercial version the dials are smooth and infinite. I never saw a "dual" version. Naturally when I need a picture of mine I can't find it.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 10, 2019, 10:44 AM
Ok! Boys, Not to stray to far from the subject. For several months I've been trying to decide on a welder 220. I narrowed it down to the lincoln 180 mig. But there's to many. An opinion would be appreciated. For Farm use as well as Winnie us. Hm? 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 10, 2019, 12:04 PM
Just to help with the decision, here is some detail shots of the welder..It comes with 2 cords..each with it's plug to switch it from either voltage ..Just twist and lock the cord to the back of the unit..Comes with a spool of .025 mig wire..Still using it, which shows how little I have used it..And a spool of flux wire..035...The gas regulator..and all the accessory pieces to switch wire gauges at the wire feed..wheels, guide etc.
Looking at the setting chart, it really doesn't add to the max thickness of steel that you can weld..going to 220 just speeds the process up in comparison to the 120..I bought it at the professional welding shop that supplies businesses with gas and tanks..A place that does nothing but welding..Not Home depot or Lowes
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 10, 2019, 03:29 PM
Do the dials rotate smoothly or do they click into each position? Like position A, B, C, etc or just wherever you leave it? The latter choice is the proffesional model that I have and now I see what the dual means, 110 or 220. With 220 you get a much more stable arc.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 10, 2019, 03:40 PM
The difference between 110 and 220 mainly comes down to the amperage available to you. You are going to be limited to around 90 amps on 110 volts. Welding voltage is around 21-27 volts, which is a quarter of the 110 volts coming in. so 90 amps out divided by 4 equals 22.5 amps input at 110 volts. You are probably going to pop a breaker unless it is a 25-30 amp circuit. Where at 220 volts the same 90 amp output is a multiple of 8 so the amperage drawn from the outlet is 11.25. 180 amp maximum power will draw roughly 22.11 amps. 180 amps on 110 volts will draw 45 amps from the outlet!!


Hey TJ, So you wanna be a welder huh, well here you go. 1000 amp stick welding


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j61ezBX-EyA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j61ezBX-EyA)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 10, 2019, 04:15 PM
Did you notice on the video, that the first guy with the long beard showed his welding..After cleaning the slag..But the other guys didn't show their work Hm? ..Did anyone learn anything on this??  How to act silly and make money on you tube doing it!! :)rotflmao My welder does not have detentes..rotates smoothly..I ran that bead earlier using the 110 plug on a dedicated 20 amp circuit with the dials shown at their positions..Didn't pop the breaker..with a 50 foot 10AWG extension cord ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 10, 2019, 05:43 PM
Well thanks lads. Like I said I didn't want to change the direction of the threat. Appreciate the comments. Looks like that's the route I'll go. No Rick I wouldn't insult real welder by thinking I'm a welder. D:oH! :)rotflmao
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 10, 2019, 08:27 PM
Working on the wall this afternoon..I just cleaned it up and set it up for the rim joist piece ..the 2x4 that gets screwed into the floor..pressure treated ..You just line up the lower aluminum piece to the upper..lining up the original screw and staple holes..Hold in place with a little tape to keep it from shifting then glue up the 2x4 with plenty of liquid nails..Weigh it down  give it about 2 days to harden up, then start building the skirt frame work..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 16, 2019, 08:35 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on November 10, 2019, 04:15 PM
Did you notice on the video, that the first guy with the long beard showed his welding..After cleaning the slag..But the other guys didn't show their work Hm? ..Did anyone learn anything on this??  How to act silly and make money on you tube doing it!! :)rotflmao My welder does not have detentes..rotates smoothly..I ran that bead earlier using the 110 plug on a dedicated 20 amp circuit with the dials shown at their positions..Didn't pop the breaker..with a 50 foot 10AWG extension cord ..
Did they go to an inverter style setup? If so it will automatically regulate the output based on the input but even then that is a good looking weld for 110 volts. The true test would be to check the penetration.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 16, 2019, 08:40 AM
Come on now, A week with no progress! We are going into withdrawal here.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 16, 2019, 09:10 AM
Oh! This is painful. However perfection takes a little longer. Withdrawal! That's an understatment.  It's like going to a Saturday Matina and following a Buck Rodgers cerial and finding  out it will be a month before the next sequal filmed.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 16, 2019, 12:04 PM
Oh Man!! I am so sorry about this..I sold the thing!!..Got an offer that I couldn't refuse!!!!......................NOOOO!! Just Kidding :)rotflmao ..It is the problem with the time change and getting dark at 5pm..I am able to get some work in on it at the end of the day then it is too late to take good pictures..I just took these this morning and I will be doing more this afternoon..
Finished the lower skirt area..not completely..couple of little details but in essence it is done..Now needs to have the top 1/4 ply on top of that..Got some 20 gauge galvanized..Little lighter than the 16 that I used on the front area of the wall....So that needs to be put on..I will just use tin snips to shape all that..Not the plasma (BWA HA Ha) cutter..This all might look like the wall of a Brinks armored truck but it really hasn't added that much weight to it..every piece of wood is there for a reason..Mostly to secure it to the steel framework of the chassis..That frame work around that door hatch opening..It leaked there  before because the screws were secured only with the 24 gauge aluminum that the screws went into..Now there is actual wood!! Imagine that..Screws into wood..what a concept!! Here are some pics
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 24, 2019, 08:24 PM
I am BACK!!!I am doing the best that I can but it gets dark so early now..But this is what I was able to get done today..The plywood along the edge was really sagging..Added some reinforcement..
Did the best I could on the welding..function over form!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 24, 2019, 08:28 PM
And then this tire blow out mess..Right rear mud guard area..The wall is ready to be installed..Just need to fix the details first..while it is easy..The propane lines need to be fixed too..Do a little bit of modifying on that...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 24, 2019, 08:44 PM
The one weld on the angle looks perfect and the other looks too cold or you had the gas off, really looks like the gas was off, or the wind was blowing. You can't mig weld in the wind. On the fender it looks like you need more heat. Function over form only works when the function holds!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 24, 2019, 08:55 PM
 :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao  I new you'd catch that Rick. Hey Mike your doing a fantastic job. :)clap Keep up the good work. I'm thinking there's a lot of us look forword to checking in every week now to see how your doing.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 25, 2019, 08:40 AM
I wouldn't have said anything if Mike didn't but since he did it seemed he was kind of frustrated with his results so I figured I would offer what I saw.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 25, 2019, 11:38 AM
Here is a couple of better shots of the 2 welds made on that floor reinforcement Up close and personal..Watching videos on vertical mig and upside down mig, even these professional welders struggle with upside down stuff..Vertical is made going uphill..gun pointed uphill..that worked pretty good for me..but to get into position to make any kind of upside down weld involved being on hand and knees to support yourself..then trying to get it in there without it raining down molten steel on your hands and arms..For what I was working with and the limited skills that I have, I don't think that weld will be going any where soon..On the next attempt, I will open up the argon CO2 mix for a higher flow..That might work..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 25, 2019, 12:46 PM
I smile only because anybody who has welded and had to weld up hill has run into the very same experiance. And yep! our welds looked about like that. Hehehehe
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Rickf1985 on November 25, 2019, 06:11 PM
I have had plenty of those welds. you need to turn up the heat and move fast. So you are running higher heat, faster wire and moving faster so that it cools before it has a chance to drop out. If you thin it is hard with MIG try it with stick! With stick I would be using 6010 or 6011 since it is a fast setting rod but it is also deep penetration so you always have a compromise.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Gearhead88 on December 01, 2019, 01:41 PM

Wow !!!


I just read this entire build thread . You are one determined  and ambitious guy !!




You have some skills !!   :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ClydesdaleKevin on December 21, 2019, 10:48 AM
Any more progress on this Mike?  It has been a while!


And Merry Christmas!!!


Kev
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 21, 2019, 11:27 AM
Hi Kevin,
I am afraid not..With it getting dark at 4:30 during the winter..I use to be able to work a couple of hours on it after work during the summer..Not right now though..
I have it all covered up..just waiting out the winter weather..
The next thing that I am going to do is drop out the fuel tanks..See what is all with that..There was a fuel delivery problem when I brought it home..with the side open as it is right now, getting to the tanks will be much easier..Then I will put that side back on..
So that is about it..Just hurry up and wait out the winter..
Merry Christmas to you too!!
Mike
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on December 21, 2019, 02:06 PM
Back atcha. Was wondering how things were going. Any way hope you all have a Merry Christmas and all the best to you in the New Year. Maybe Santa Clause will bring you some good stuff. :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: ralis on April 30, 2021, 07:57 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2019, 11:18 PM
I happen to own a CNC Plasma steel cutter..BWAAA HAAA HAAA coff coff coff weeze :)rotflmao Got all the info on how all of these type of machines work from cnczone dot com and decided to build one for myself!!
I needed to make a new skin for the inside of the fender well..Instead of the original aluminum, this is 16 gauge galvanized cold roll steel..Heavier but lots more durable for all that happens in the wheel well..

um hi! I need one of those!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Oz on May 01, 2021, 10:29 AM
Don't we all!   :)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 21, 2023, 07:55 PM
I am Back!!  After the full effect of a divorce and the financial ruin, I have returned!!

What happened to all the photos?? I understand there was a new server ISP transfer..

There is no photos of all the ones I posted..
Mike
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on April 22, 2023, 11:19 AM
Yes, unfortunately the move came with loss of all the photo's ever posted at CWVR.  :'(  :'(  :'(
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 23, 2023, 12:56 AM
Okay..Darn..I also need to figure out why I didn't get a notice of your posting..

I am thinking that I should start over on this..Because in essence I am starting all over on the D22 Indian..

Mike
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on April 23, 2023, 10:42 AM
The transportation of the forum was a nightmare for Oz. What should have taken only days took months, and as far as I understood one of the reasons was that even the old forum was allready riddled with error logs.

QuoteHowever, even before the site had to be migrated, my error log was riddled with background errors due to the aging of the old version I was using and it would literally take a wizard to correct them.  I've gotten pretty good at this over the years but, there's a lot I don't know and I really had no choice but to do a major upgrade and that overwrites all the files I customized.

Having said all that, with what I've learned, I may do some customizing.  The thing is, it seems a lot of people these days like bland, run-of-the-mill presentation of things.  Like houses done in all white ang gray. Like "creativity" is too much.  I don't really know but, I think there's a happy medium to be found and, once I get all the pieces of this puzzle put back together, I'll try to find it.
 :azn:

So, at the moment we have to create the "extra's" ourself. You can edit all yourself in your profile settings. In your case you need to turn on the notifications again. In the left upper site you see your username. Click on it and then "Notifications" and set everything to your desires.

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 23, 2023, 11:44 AM
Thank You MIw !!

I didn't have any of the "receive email" boxes checked off..Now they are..

Well shoot..That story of Oz and the migration turned into a nightmare..

I still have all the original pictures that was attached with all the posts..

Wondering if I can edit each post and add back in the original photo..??

I think I should just abandon this 10 page thread and start over..

Like I am with the motorhome start over 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on April 23, 2023, 12:02 PM
Unfortunately you can't edit the pictures. I've tried. I had a complete gallerie devided in different sections. When I go to "Gallery" and then "Member area" and "My images" I can see all the link to the photo's but not the photo itself. It says "Edit" but if you do then you get the message.

Error Message.jpg

As you see you can add new pictures so maybe that's an option for you as you have only one topic. I Personally wouldn't advice you to abandon the topic as it is about the history of your RV and there still is a lot of good information in there. And I know it takes a long time but maybe Oz suddenly shows to be the real wizard of Oz and fix the problem  :)clap  :)clap  :)clap  You never know,

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 23, 2023, 12:34 PM
Alright..trying to get my feet wet on how this all works again..Here is the first image that I posted on page one..

This image is way different than it looks now!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 23, 2023, 12:59 PM
Alright..steep learning curve being climbed right now..

I guess that it is not possible to go back to the old posts and add in the original photo..or is it and I am not seeing how it is done??
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 28, 2023, 02:03 PM
When money is tight, you got to do the things on the restore that don,t cost much money..
I have a small powder coating set up in my shop..

And I am working on the rims, replacing the tires..These rims are painted with a brush with something like Rustolium paint..I have a pot sandblaster from harbor freight and will sand blast the rims clean..

But..
The rim will not fit in the electric oven and close the door..So with my CNC plasma cutter and Autocad I came up with a extension to add to the door opening..

Here is the drawing and the cutting results..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 28, 2023, 02:08 PM
Here is the results..this gives me an extension of 9 inches..I ordered up some oven insulation wool from McMaster-Carr..should be here next week..

I need to remove all the rotten tires with 6 more to go..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on April 28, 2023, 10:51 PM
I use a Sawzall to get the tire off the rim..It is easier to get the side walls off that way..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on May 02, 2023, 07:54 PM
With the help of the sawzall I cut all the rubber off the rims..I have a Harbor freight sand blaster and a good size compressor..

All of the rims facing out..4 of the 6 rims were painted by the OP with some sort of super durable white paint..And the sand blaster will not touch it!!

The original paint from the factory,blows off like dust on a table top..

I don't know what he used, maybe some sort of 2 part hardener epoxy, but it is very tough..It will take a while to get those clean to powder coat them.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on May 06, 2023, 11:31 PM
I think I made a pretty good score on some front calipers from Rockauto..I tore into the right side front brake to be able to see if I bought the right ones..Everything looks good..

The pads looked brand new in regards to the thickness of the pads ..Also the width of the disc is stock..hasn't been cut..

Mechanically, this chassis was taken care of..It is the box that just is pathetic!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on May 06, 2023, 11:33 PM
It looks like a fresh exhaust was installed to..With the headers
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on May 07, 2023, 05:59 PM
What are they, Nugeons?

I had my right front caliper replaced and was thinking about the left because they really look cool.

I changed my mind however because the Banjo bolt didn't want to go back again after trying for several minutes, so I had to use the Banjo Bolt of the old caliper (that went on directly and smooth as butter. that one kept leaking however till i turned it so tight that i was really afraid that i would strip out the treads so not impressed with Nugeons at all.

I checked the box but no "made in" was to be found, but I have my suspisions so I send the old caliper to a repair shop and see it can be saved but the piston was really stuck, so I don't know, but these are your brakes! Not exactly a product you want to fail in case of an emergency.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on May 07, 2023, 07:07 PM
Yep, nothing but China junk for me..Wait, that other one is made in Mexico!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on May 07, 2023, 07:24 PM
Why doesn't this suprise me  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

Yes I didn't have that beautiful sticker that you've got  :laugh:

Man oh man, what has the world become to...



Edit: they are bought out...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 08, 2023, 11:15 PM
I just put a full day into the project..Getting it ready to rebuild the starboard side..Using 1.5 square tubing to weld all together..with the full wall setting on the ground for measurements and fitting..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 09, 2023, 07:16 AM
you are really taking this to the next level....

I admire your courage!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 09, 2023, 09:50 AM
LMAO yes it is courage is it not! Great work has to said, and explains taking a sawsall to a tire for dismount..effective. I've never seen that before. I needed those pictures,they put my issues in perspective, I have none frankly, aside from a smidge of back pain and attitude issue's.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 09, 2023, 10:01 AM
Quote,they put my issues in perspective,

I'm 100% with you on that. This was not the first RV I saw and there were examples where I had to do exactly the same due to delamination. Just knocking the sides was enough to walk away from them.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 09, 2023, 01:16 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on July 09, 2023, 09:50 AMexplains taking a sawsall to a tire for dismount..effective.

There was 2 reasons to do the sawzall cutting. First it is easier to get the side wall of the tire off the rim without the tread fighting it to stay on.

Second is what to do with a full uncut tire..The county municipal dump would accept such a tire at 5 dollars apiece..35 total..but the dump is 30 miles away..My pickup gets about 8 miles to the gallon..So I would use about 8 gallons of fuel..5 dollars a gallon..40 dollars plus the dump fee for a total of 75 dollars.

When you cut it up, it can be thrown in the regular trashcan that you roll out to the street..Only 1 per week would fit in the can along with my regular trash..

So in about 6-7 weeks everything of the old tires were gone and I have 75 more dollars in my pocket..!!

That is what a divorce does to your brain..It makes you think at a different level..Not a higher level, just different! 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 09, 2023, 05:53 PM
Understand that put a smile on my face. It would be very quick and effective.I was raised in a farming community,my father ran a service garage. Once a yr those farmers would come in droves getting there grain trucks ready for harvest. We also serviced Catipillars service trucks..guess who got the grunt work..I can think of a few times that just cutting them off trick would have been nice. Lol I should make a video when I take off my 40 yr old cast headers..cutting touch ablaze!

As to divorce..there are always remnants...left over garbage. Curtain choices for me are quite a process..Just a thought :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 09, 2023, 10:30 PM
Since the side that is opened up on this is the same as the gas tanks, now is the time to yank them out to make them pretty again..

When I bought this disaster, it had a real fuel delivery problem..it just barely ran..I found out why..

There is no servicing these tanks if there is a problem unless you pull the tanks out..Even with the side off of the motorhome this was real pain getting them out..Can't imagine with the side on..

You have to remove the secondary(smaller) tank first..drops out and then the primary slides forward off it's perches to get it out..

I was thinking of making a trap door in the coach above the tanks..If a sending unit quits or the pickup tube is clogged, you can get to it that way..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 09, 2023, 10:38 PM
After power washing them..The big main tank has 2 pickup tubes..engine and generator..

The tube for the engine was totally clogged..No wonder the engine barely ran..

I ran a rod down the tube and it was looking like wet charcoal..I tried to blow it out first but it was solid plugged..The rod busted it clear..

The engine pickup tube is about 1/4 off the bottom of the tank..The generator tube is 2 inches or so and it was totally clear..

I wish there was a way to install some sort of pickup tube filter in the tank..keep it from getting clogged
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 11, 2023, 01:04 PM
QuoteThere is no servicing these tanks if there is a problem unless you pull the tanks out..Even with the side off of the motorhome this was real pain getting them out..Can't imagine with the side on..

when you are watching this guy (https://www.youtube.com/@ViceGripGarage/videos) you'll learn that that was standard with cars of that era. As he picks up cars that are standing for decades all tanks of course are varnished.

Warning in advance: when you are watching this, don't drink heavy beverages (or as he calls them "wobble pops") there is a chance it leaves your body thru your nostrals  ;)  ;)  ;)


Since cars are build by accountants instead of mechanical engineers, trapdoors are a necessity, not an addition. For example, if you'd run those tanks empty you just fill them up again and carry one if you have the old fashioned mechanical pump. With an electrical fuel pumps you better immediately buy a new pump when you run your tank empty because I guarentee you'll be standing next to the road with a failing fuelpump within a month, and as you said yourself
QuoteYep, nothing but China junk for me..
Build those trapdoors  ;)  ;)  ;)

Oh, and by the way,

QuoteI guess that it is not possible to go back to the old posts and add in the original photo..or is it and I am not seeing how it is done??

You can now. I've started re-entering the pictures by the posts as you can see here (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;cat=598) but it's a lot of work. When you posted the pictures in the threads it should just be a case of adding the pictures again by pressing edit and add the picture again. The info from the link will stay intact then.

QuoteI wish there was a way to install some sort of pickup tube filter in the tank..keep it from getting clogged

You mean this (https://www.summitracing.com/search/part-type/fuel-strainers/product-line/tanks-inc-fuel-filter-socks)?


Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 02:19 PM
Quote from: Mlw on July 11, 2023, 01:04 PMYou can now. I've started re-entering the pictures by the posts as you can see here (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=gallery;cat=598) but it's a lot of work. When you posted the pictures in the threads it should just be a case of adding the pictures again by pressing edit and add the picture again. The info from the link will stay intact then.

AAAH!! Very good!! Only about 9 pages of posts to re enter..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 02:26 PM
You mean this?

Thank You for the link!!Problem is the hole that you would have to reach into is about 1.5 inches wide..That is the hole closest to the pickup tube and it is the hole for the sending unit..

The other hole is a vent for the tank that has a cap and rubber hose on it..

The trap door will make it easy to fix..Even if you were on the road, that door would have you up and running again easy.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 02:43 PM
My other project( I have lots of projects) is a 94 Ryder decommissioned moving van..On a E350 RV chassis with a 460-7.5 liter engine..EFI for the fuel system and it has a pump, sending unit contraption that has a 8 inch diameter access hole..as shown..But even with that, you need drop the tank to get to this pump sending unit..

I will be installing a trap door for it too..

I was thinking if I was to cut a opening on the top of the the tank of the motorhome..Maybe 5-6 in diameter..Create a bolt on top..that I would be able to install that screen filter that you were kind to link to..

Right now the tank is setting in direct sunlight to evaporate the remaining rotted fuel..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 11, 2023, 03:50 PM
QuoteThank You for the link!!Problem is the hole that you would have to reach into is about 1.5 inches wide..That is the hole closest to the pickup tube and it is the hole for the sending unit..

Did I see correctly that you own a plasma cutter or have access to it? Make a trapdoor in the tanks as well. You've already shown that you know how to handle metal works. I'm agreeying with you that the holes are to small to fit your hands in, but if you want those socks and want to service them when needed.... 

Next to this you can clean out the tanks when needed and With those Ethanol fuels nowadays...

(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/gallery/16109_11_07_23_3_58_07.jpeg)

I guess I have to think about this too now i'm remodeling. I don't really want to go at it like this when i'm finished

How to access your fueltank in your RV when you are down. (https://youtu.be/dBDr6_D0w1I?t=19m15s)


QuoteAAAH!! Very good!! Only about 9 pages of posts to re enter..

Just finished posting the pictures again... At least for my own posts. Now I still have to fix all the links in the posts...









Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 04:18 PM
The original floor plan shows the kitchen sinks directly above the fuel tanks..That is perfect to build a trap door under the sinks..

I don't think modifying the tank would be necessary..if you have easy access to the top of the tank..

A sending unit would be easy and the pickup tube would be cleared with a steel rod shoved down into it..

This clog was an accumulation of years ..finally plugged..With a trap door, it would be easy.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 04:31 PM
https://youtu.be/dBDr6_D0w1I?t=1112

I haven't watched the whole video, but WOW..creating your own access hole on the side of the freeway with a dead motorhome and your whole family with you!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 11, 2023, 07:08 PM
That is true, but as said, don't forget the ethanol that is in fuel nowadays and it is a fact that ethanol makes petrol varnishing faster and can become an issue with RV's as they are not driven daily, certainly when you use the lower octane ones.

As for the video, these kind of actions is kind of his brand, but yes, not what you want happening when you are going on a 5000 miles roadtrip as the video shows later. If you have spare time watch it because they are really a hoot and better than televison.

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 07:26 PM
The second tank has a drain at the bottom..It's the main tank that does not have anything to completely drain the tank..Running the electric pump, you would be able to run it out..But with the 1/4 inch gap between the pickup tube and the bottom of the tank, there would be residual fuel..rotting away..

There is on the market, fuel stabilizers that you can add to the fuel..wonder how well they work?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 08:19 PM
Just for curiosity. Crawled under the rear diff area to check it out..Dana 70 with a 10 bolt cover..

4.56 gearing..You wouldn't have to worry about any mountain pass with that ratio..

Bad news..When you torque the pinion yolk back and forth, it has a pretty good clunk..I will take the cover off and see what the oil looks like...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 12, 2023, 11:02 AM
This axle rear end combo I will be watching with great interest. 4.56 gearing is incredibly low for a 440.

GM really dumbed down the 454 to meet EPA emissions I suspect that crazy gearing was used simply to enhance a strangled engine.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 12, 2023, 06:20 PM
Cracking the diff cover with the fluid spilling out, the color of the fluid looked fresh..I think it was a bit low but it looked recent..

I think that I have some sort of Posi or limited slip on this. Not your typical spider gear configuration..

4.56 ratio for sure..

This D22 is a disaster when it comes to the box..But mechanically it seems to be holding it's own..

I wondering what one of the brakes on the rear looks like??

Don't you just love the smell of gear oil..I think someone needs to make an after shave using that scent..!!

Call it..Macho Man Mechanic..The smell that will drive the women wacho!!

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 12, 2023, 07:45 PM
Let's take a look at one of the rear brakes..Hint..Disaster!!

The half shaft was no problem and I have the correct socket for the nuts..Someone used a chisel to loosen and tighten them previously..The inner nut was way loose. No preload at all
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 12, 2023, 07:50 PM
The adjusting sprocket wheel was loose at the bottom of the drum..Spring parts just rattling around..But the drum pulled right off..Rear shoe cut into the drum and is completely bare..Just rivets to cut the drum..

Like I said..What a disaster!!

It can be fixed..Nothing here that can't be replaced or remade..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 12, 2023, 09:04 PM
I've been ahead of you. You have the same setup as me.

As for the inner nut: You know that at least the inner nut needs to be free from the bearing? If not you'll burn the bearing up with all consequenses. Be carefull with the brakedrum, they don't make them anymore and were specially made for the RV's.

I understand that you could remove the brakedrum easily when the adjusting sprocket wheel was loose at the bottom of the drum. then all tention is of the brakes.


Brake Job Dodge MB400 chassis (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=16414.0)

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 12, 2023, 10:26 PM
"I've been ahead of you. You have the same setup as me"

Afraid not..mine is a 73 and differences are the spring setup..Yours has 2 springs to use on the return of the wheel cylinder. Mine has 1 spring that spans the width just below the wheel cylinder.

Emergency brake on mine has a long arm from the top to the bottom where the cable hooks up..Your doesn't have that..

As for parts..RockAuto is your friend...

Wheel seal
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=255285&cc=573&pt=1860&jsn=1197

Outer wheel bearing and race
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=220177&cc=573&pt=1672&jsn=1183

Brake shoes
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=1619118&cc=573&pt=1688&jsn=1142

Wheel Cylinder
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=314074&cc=573&pt=1952&jsn=1152

Wheel Cylinder
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=314075&cc=573&pt=1952&jsn=1153

Hardware set
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=308893&cc=573&pt=1752&jsn=1160

Brake drums
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2032336&cc=573&pt=1744&jsn=1164

Inner Hub bearing
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=219057&cc=573&pt=1672

Inner Hub Bearing Race
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=219049&cc=573&pt=1672
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 12, 2023, 10:29 PM
MLW do you nor mean the inner nut needs to be tourqed down on the bearing then backed off a smidge?  As long as ive done this type of service that outer bearing needs to pressed in tight. And only then backs off the nut.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 12, 2023, 10:33 PM
As much as I to like rockauto one always need to check Amazon..same pricing free shipping! But shock absorbers not so much.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 12, 2023, 10:40 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on July 12, 2023, 10:33 PMAs much as I to like rockauto one always need to check Amazon

But with RockAuto you can research to find your part numbers..Example..What is the wheel seal part number??

Amazon is not going to give you that..RA does..I guess once you have the part number, you can compare to Amazon..

Just compared the drums. Amazon doesn't carry them..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 12, 2023, 11:00 PM
Those the drums? If it centric they carry it. I don't really like Amazon but I've had some rather large and heavy orders. They add up.

https://www.amazon.com/Centric-Parts-123-67004-Brake-Drum/dp/B000BZZUCW
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 12, 2023, 11:40 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on July 12, 2023, 11:00 PMThey add up.

Looks like the same drum..RockAuto has it for 64.79

Amazon has it for 97.86
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on July 13, 2023, 08:41 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 07:26 PMThere is on the market, fuel stabilizers that you can add to the fuel..wonder how well they work?

Mike, I have used Stabil 360 Marine in my equipment for the last decade or so. It has completely eliminated the carburetor issues that I was having with ethanol in all my equipment from old single cylinder Kohlers to '50s Chevy trucks, to my' 83 Grand Wagoneer. Highly recommend it, I put it in every tank of gas that goes in a carbureted vehicle.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on July 13, 2023, 08:45 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on July 11, 2023, 02:43 PMI was thinking if I was to cut a opening on the top of the the tank of the motorhome..Maybe 5-6 in diameter..Create a bolt on top..that I would be able to install that screen filter that you were kind to link to..

If you do end up wanting to cut an opening in the top of your tank, it might be worth checking your local radiator shop to see if they do gas tanks. I had to TIG weld a new bottom onto my 50 gallon auxiliary tank and I had them hot tank it before I put heat & flame to it. Didn't cost much and when I got it back there was no gas smell at all. I've had friends and neighbors try at home approaches (soaking for weeks in water, etc) and the tanks still went boom when the welding arc struck.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on July 13, 2023, 08:46 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on July 12, 2023, 06:20 PMCracking the diff cover with the fluid spilling out, the color of the fluid looked fresh..I think it was a bit low but it looked recent..

Did you find the source of the clunk when you opened up the rear diff cover?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 09:08 AM
"If you do end up wanting to cut an opening in the top of your tank, it might be worth checking your local radiator shop to see if they do gas tanks"

I am not going to do any modifying to the tank. Leave as is..But I will be creating that trap door right above the tanks that will be located under the kitchen sinks..If that tube ever gets clogged again, cleaning it out will be an easy task..The clogging that occurred is probably the first time this has happened..It is just a time accumulation buildup ..

"Did you find the source of the clunk when you opened up the rear diff cover?"

Not yet..But stay tuned as the whole diff is coming out so that I can go through it all..Set it up on saw horses and fully take it apart..check bearings, backlash, everything..
If I am going as deep as I am into this D22, I might as well do it thoroughly, completely and correctly..

 "I have used Stabil 360 Marine in my equipment for the last decade or so. It has completely eliminated the carburetor issues that I was having with ethanol"

That sounds like a product that has lived up to what it promotes to be..The quality of gasoline is so poor especially with the ethanol..In California, it is about 15 percent..E15..But you get these winter and summer blends of gasoline that really mess things up..

It has a Edelbrock carb on it..rebuilding it of course..It will be interesting to see how it looks inside..

Big Al, Thank You for your feedback on all this..Appreciate all of you that show interest in this extreme project!! :)clap   

 

 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 13, 2023, 02:10 PM
Quote.Appreciate all of you that show interest in this extreme project!! :)clap   

Your welcome! Appreciate your feedback as well.

Oh, and I just saw your comment under your avatar "I'm never going to get done with this winnebago!"

Trust me, you are not the only one feeling this way  ;)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 02:24 PM
Just opened the port side..At least it is all together..The starboard side had loose and broken parts at the bottom of the drum..

So the brakes shoe rivets cut into this side too..We are all good..Just got the shipping notice from RockAuto..

MlW..See how the springs are set up differently than your brakes? also the long arm that activates the emergency brakes..

I guess I can start taking the backing plates off..And start preparing the whole diff to be pulled out

Suppose to be over 105 degrees from now till the end of the weekend..

I need to prioritize first things first..make some iced tea!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 02:32 PM
Forgot to post this photo of the locking nuts..The outside nut did not have the tab bent over to secure it.

And inside nut was so tight that I had to break it loose with the breaker bar that engages the special socket..It wasn't super tight but it was way too tight..

The snail will have go !!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 13, 2023, 02:50 PM
Let's do it like this for the others. Yes it's quite a different setup  :-[  :-[  :-[

Rearbrakes thru the years.jpg

I wonder if the change also goes for the brakedrums then. If you get new ones please make a picture of them, especially the print of the size. As they have to cross the pond, it's a whole lot cheaper just to trow them in the wastebin when they are not the right ones.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 13, 2023, 02:55 PM
Oh Blast!!!

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 03:31 PM
That would be a good contribution to this website..When ever someone does a brake job like this, take about 4-5 photos from all angles to document the assembly of it all..Then a photo album to place them all in..

The port side rear brake of this motorhome is complete..nothing broken or lost..it would be good to take plenty of photos for everyone that might need it
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 03:41 PM
A brass drift and a 2 pound sledge hammer drove the studs out, no problem.

After the drum and hub become 2 pieces there is a sleeve that is installed in the drum..I think it protects the brakes from oil that leaks from the hub seal..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 03:45 PM
Quote from: Mlw on July 13, 2023, 02:50 PMI wonder if the change also goes for the brakedrums then

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3868602&cc=1087174&pt=1744&jsn=1158

Looks like it is a different drum..I don't know if that is the drum or not..I used a D400 pickup as the search vehicle
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 09:31 PM
Quote from: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on July 13, 2023, 08:46 AMDid you find the source of the clunk when you opened up the rear diff cover?

After removing the half shafts, the clunk went away..Maybe there is play in the splines of the half shafts and the spider gears.

So without the drive shaft and shafts, it spins very easily..No preload to the pinion..

It is coming out..New bearings..reset the backlash and preload..will be good to go.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 14, 2023, 06:33 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on July 13, 2023, 03:41 PMAfter the drum and hub become 2 pieces there is a sleeve that is installed in the drum..I think it protects the brakes from oil that leaks from the hub seal..

That is correct sir.  :)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 15, 2023, 06:41 PM
The new parts were delivered :)clap Everything seems to be in order..The only thing missing is the new hardware set with the springs and things
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 15, 2023, 06:45 PM
Here is the backing plate of the rear starboard side..This is the side that was tearing it self apart because loose parts were spinning around in there..I need to hit the axle with BP Blaster..Get it ready to come out..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 15, 2023, 11:34 PM
This is the secondary tank and the bottom is very rusty. It has a baffle in the middle of the tank..I was thinking of cutting this open at the top to be able to clean it out..What I am finding out is white vinegar is the way to clean it..But it is a 30 gallon tank..That is a lot of vinegar!!

The sending unit is destroyed with rust and rot..

There is nothing on theis beast that doesn't need rebuilding , repairing, replacing..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 16, 2023, 02:48 PM
Looking around for a similar gas tank replacement is out of the question..And I really don't want to go to a truck wrecking yard only to find something that might work only to have it full of rust.. So I need to save this tank

So here goes..

There is a surge baffle where the red line is..I stuck the water line in and filled it till it was pouring out and left the water on to run..

4 inch hole saw..drill a hole on both sides of the baffle..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 16, 2023, 02:53 PM
Soooo!!

Here is the results..It worked..I can reach my hand and forearm all the way to the bottom of the tank..Reached in there with a spatula and pulled this out..

Now I can get in there with a power washer..and then create a bolt on patch panels to cover it all up..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 16, 2023, 05:14 PM
Learning as your doing..The problem with the power washer, is you can get in there towards the bottom and some of the sides..But further up the tank and it is still scaly ..I tried inserting my compressed air nozzle and could reach the sides and top and stuff just went flying..

So one more step with throwing in about a quart of Simple Green and filling it up about 3/4 with water..

With a stainless steel pot scrubber and my arm all the way in there I could scrub the area that the power washer couldn't reach..

Dumped the water and blew it dry..Setting in the hot sun to get it hot and dry..

That pickup tube is almost tight to the bottom..I need to figure a way to shorten it about 3/8  so it would have less of a chance to pick up anything
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 16, 2023, 08:33 PM
Now that's what I call extensive recon. Steel tank I assume...lmao asking for a friend as they say today.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 16, 2023, 08:35 PM
Yes it is a steel tank..Wouldn't have much of a rust problem if it was plastic or aluminum
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 16, 2023, 08:42 PM
I had to drop the tank in my Rambler, really didn't like that ideal at all. I'm older and have lost my youthful strength. I used a floor jack and a fabricated wood brace to drop it. Once down I was shocked to feel its weight.. aluminum i had never seen that before,it really makes a difference.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 17, 2023, 12:13 AM
(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15119.0;attach=15669;fs=149566;image)

Well, this time you can consider yourself lucky having an older model RV as they still have the standard model brake-drums.

I've searched my conversations with Geoffrey from Alretta, and sure enough:

"For your information, you will never buy another pair of rear brake drums for this vehicle. They were special factory only parts that were never sold in the stores. I do have the complete shoe axle set. 13x3-1/2" size. $320"

I don't know your exact chassis model, but Rock auto even has the 1973 MB300 (https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/dodge,1973,MB300,5.2l+318cid+v8,1499101) models on the website, but not the 1979 MB400 what my model is.




Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 17, 2023, 01:13 AM
Quote from: Mlw on July 17, 2023, 12:13 AMbut not the 1979 MB400 what my model is.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=3868602&cc=1087174&pt=1744&jsn=1158

This fits the D400..look at the specs and it might interchange
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 17, 2023, 01:19 AM
Looks pretty close to me!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 18, 2023, 03:41 PM
I see what you mean now.

Outside Diameter (IN)   14.03

Wow, wouldn't that be something. I guess I have to remove the duallys again and start measuring. If it seems to fit i have to contact my partstore here in the Netherlands and see if they have them in stock or that they can order them for me.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on July 18, 2023, 09:36 PM
MLW

Bendix Catalog says the MB400 12" x 3" Formula Blue Rear Drum P/N is E127-72-009.  Bendix had converted their old P/N's over to Formula Blue P/N's sometime in the past however other aftermarket Mfgs (Bendix, Raybestos, etc.) had already cross referenced their P/N's to the old Bendix P/N's. So, when you cross the Formula Blue P/N (E127-72-009) back to the old Bendix P/N (140264) then drums start popping out of the woodwork.  Additionally, just so happens that that 12" x 3" rear drum was also used on the 74 & later M300 (RM300) / M400 (RM350) as well as many Dodge trucks from 71 - 93 that used 12 x 3" rear brakes.

Bendix - 140264
Dura Brake - BD8892
DuraGo - BD8892
AC-Delco - 18B79
Raybestos - 1961

Now if you have 13" x 3.5" rear brakes (163" chassis) then you might have problems.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 18, 2023, 10:59 PM
Answer given at Brakejob Dodge MB400 (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=16414.msg102713#msg102713)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 26, 2023, 01:36 PM
Still working on it..Here is the backing plates for the rear brakes..

I have one of those pot sand blaster from Harbor Freight..You need a decent compressor ..I have one of those 60 gallon upright compressors doing all it could do to keep up with the volume of air it needs..

But they came out good..I have a small powder coating system in my shop as I mentioned earlier..Will be doing that next.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on July 26, 2023, 03:11 PM
Great job, I would really enjoy a sandblasting system, but that is not going to happen...to many issues going on.
 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 26, 2023, 08:18 PM
Probably most of you know about powder coating..but for those who don't..

Image 1 shows the actual powder in it's storage container..Ultra fine powder.

Image 2 is my old Hypersmooth powder coating system..All it is doing is blowing the powder with regulated air pressure..Gives it a static cling charge and that is what makes  powder stick to the bare metal..It will not run like paint will and you can only apply so much powder because once it is covered all the excess powder will just blow away..because there is no where to stick once it is fully covered..

Image 3 is the bare part on a rack that fits in the oven..I did one side at time then baked it..let it cool and then flipped and sprayed again..380 degrees for 30 minutes on each side in the oven

Image 4 is the first side of the first part..Just powder clinging to the part by electric static..

That power stays put and will not run or sag

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 26, 2023, 08:22 PM
Here is the result..Because this involves a baking of 380 degrees in my household electric oven. the finish is pretty much permanent..

The original brakes were painted and you can tell they got hot..burned off the factory paint and why they were all rusty..

Don't need to worry about that any more!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 26, 2023, 10:06 PM
Taking inventory of all the internal brake parts..The right brake was just shrapnel inside spinning like a cloths dryer.

The left side looked together, but the control arm for the emergency brake is bent..

When you are tearing this thing apart as deep as I am you really see the history of it's 50 year life..

I will need to clamp it in a vise and see if I can straighten it..At least the right side is straight to have something to compare it to..

Just going to soak the pivot end of the arms in PB blaster over night so I can take them apart to restore them..

Everything!! Everything of this Indian needs repair, restore or replace..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on July 27, 2023, 12:56 PM
And as you see every time, good tools make half the work.

You are going at it thouroughly. Just don't replace to much with China junk or you would be back at it in a few years again  :shocked: :P  ;)  :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on July 28, 2023, 10:14 PM
Rockwood Mike, I'm really impressed with how well that powder coating came out! In my head, powder coating is this big, fancy process that has to be done in a special shop. I had no idea they made small-scale powder coating setups, very cool!

Alan
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on July 28, 2023, 11:04 PM
Quote from: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on July 28, 2023, 10:14 PMI had no idea they made small-scale powder coating setups, very cool

Harbor freight has the ultimate cheap started powder gun..Electric ovens can be had easy enough..

It really doesn't take much to get started..What is nice is once you pull it out of the oven, it is DONE!
Not just dry to the touch..just let it cool and it can be handled like a factory part..

Paint? It has to dry, stinks up the place and that bug that sticks it self to the paint doesn't help!

Just YT it and look at all the ways people get into it..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 11, 2023, 12:56 AM
I am going to yank the differential out tomorrow..Spent the afternoon today getting it all prepared..

PB Blaster all the threads, soaking them. Then rearranged the jack stands to have the weight on the frame instead of the axle..So the diff is just hanging there by the springs. Roll a floor jack under the pumpkin to take some weight..Remove the u bolts and it should just roll out the side.."Just"

I have this feeling it will take some work to rebuild this thing!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 11, 2023, 10:44 PM
Alright!!
Look at the first picture..The U bolts..Notice the right U bolt is threaded deeper with the nuts..

That bottom plate is twisted upward towards the front of the axle..I knew there was something that happened here..Because that is not factory install..

Second picture is I wrapped a terry towel rag around the threads and all the bearing surfaces..In case it smacks the concrete on the way out..Both ends covered like this.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 11, 2023, 10:56 PM
Rolled the floor jack under the pumpkin..Jacked it up some to put pressure on the springs..Just a little bit to keep the axle in place as the u bolts are being removed

Notice the bent Shock mount stud?..The OP hit something hard on the right side..That would take a big smack to bend that bolt back like that.

I have an impact air gun..Needed to loosen, then tighten, then loosen some more, back and forth on each nut..Threads on the bolt are pretty messed up..

BPBPBPBPBPBPBP---EEEUUUUU until it finally came off..Tighten it..soak it with BP Blaster..loosen it..

Took some time to get each nut off..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 11, 2023, 11:02 PM
All bolts and brackets off..Everything is soaked in BP Blaster
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 11, 2023, 11:07 PM
1st picture..The only thing holding it up is the floor jack..

2nd Picture...Down goes diff..Down goes diff..Down goes diff!!

3rd picture..Roll it out from under there..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 11, 2023, 11:20 PM
There is a spacer block between the axle and the spring--Pic 1

Rolled it on the floor jack over to the work area..Long bolts and chain using 2 of the cover threaded holes..Lift it up with the engine hoist-- Pic 2

Onto the Saw horses where it will be awhile--Pic 3
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 12, 2023, 12:12 AM
These marks on the carrier bearing caps are there to keep everything in orientation ..Letter O is used but the left side is sideways, matching each other and the right side upright so that they match each other..

With these marks, proper placement is assured when you putting back together
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 12, 2023, 12:19 AM
The teeth look like they were in good mesh with each other but they look a little scorched..pitted..There wasn't much oil in it when I drained it a few days ago.

Also a lot of backlash between the ring and pinion..I will measure that before I tear it apart..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 12, 2023, 12:21 AM
Here is some numbers on the right axle..They mean something..research to find out..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 12, 2023, 12:26 AM
I set the pumpkin on an angle so that it would drain all the residual oil..

Bought a bag of oil absorbent..Some of it is on the ground to catch what ever doesn't hit the drain container..Just industrial strength kitty litter..From Autozone. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 12, 2023, 12:30 AM
Here is the left and right mount pads..The right wheel took a big smack going down the road..or maybe a big pot hole..The first pic shows the left side..normal looking..

Second pic is the right side..are crushed in..WAMM!!

I am out of pictures as this is the end of the day..Try to get more done tomorrow..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on August 12, 2023, 02:58 AM
Whoa that is serious work going on there, do you have air jacks at your disposal? Damm those pics make my whole body hurt.  :shocked

Just looked back thru pics again...all manual Jack's ...kudos young man!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 12, 2023, 10:04 AM
Quote from: Eyez Open on August 12, 2023, 02:58 AMdo you have air jacks at your disposal?

No, just the typical hand pump jacks..20 ton from HF.

The only thing I have that is air powered is this Impact gun from Harbor Freight..Working those nuts off the way they were seized on there would have done me in if I had to work them by a breaker bar.

This Impact wrench totally kicks it hard..It has 3 speeds forward and 1 reverse.

BPBPBPBPBP..EEEuuuuuuu!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on August 12, 2023, 12:47 PM
Harbor freight has cut my recon costs down by hundreds perhaps close to a thousand. It's just what it is, I missed a clearance sale on one of those earthquake wrenchs...but I watch closely for another opportunity.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 13, 2023, 10:41 PM
Before I started to tear it all down, I took a backlash reading between the pinion and ring gear..

Came out to .011 when new it is .005-.008. Just the bearings and everything worn out..

Using this magnet base and dial indicator shows the .011 clearance ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 13, 2023, 11:18 PM
After checking the back lash, I tried to lift the ring carrier out of the case..It just lifted right out..
Not suppose to do that!! It usually needs to be pried out or have a case spreader to open the case by a few thousands to relive the preload on the bearing..

This didn't have any preload at all..Just worn out bearings
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 13, 2023, 11:30 PM
Pic 1 shows the bearing saddle for the ring carrier..Dancing around a bit

Pic 2 shows the pinion way down the hole

Pic 3 The bearing on the ring side of the carrier just fell off..Didn't have to press it off.

Pic 4. Look at the beating the shims were taking..Little bit of looseness and it just slams itself creating even more looseness..

We can fix it.. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 12:20 AM
Pic 1  Loosen all the bolts that hold the ring gear to the carrier..BPBPBPBP-EEEUUUUUUUU

Pic 2  Leave 4 bolts threaded to the gear and tap them down Gear comes right off

Pic3  shows the gear off the carrier

Pic 4 shows some more scrap sim pieces. This from the carrier bearing shim.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 12:25 AM
Pics show both sides of the ring gear..
It has 41 teeth..Pinion has 9 teeth

41/9= 4.5555555555555555555555555555556

Just round it off to 4.56..With this ratio and the 440 engine, this thing can climb a tree!!
Probable has climbed a tree a few times and then fell out of it..No wonder it is in such bad shape!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 12:35 AM
I made this plate with the hole to measure down to the pinion..The plate sits on the bearing flats of the bearing saddles.That is the mid point of the carrier

The plate is .178 thick..the distance from the bearing flats to the pinion is suppose to be 3.5 inches

with the thickness of the plate...   .178 and 3.5 inches a perfect measurement is 3.678 with the dial indicator..I got 3.680... .002 to low..But all the bearings are worn out..Not really worried about this..All of this will be remade to spec.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 12:47 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd6yyEfZLn0

I bought this clam shell bearing puller. This video shows how it works

Takes it right off with no damage to the bearing..Works great..

Pics show how it works with the 2 halves surrounding the bearing with the race..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 12:52 AM
After pulling the bearing off, you can see the shrapnel of the shims..

I am glad I pulled this out and will rebuild it like new..It would have gone out soon..Mostly caused by a lack of oil
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 01:01 AM
Pic 1. Taking the front pinion drive yolk nut involve a 1-5/16 socket and an impact wrench
BPBPBPBPBP-EEEEUUUUU

Pic 2 just using a lite blow to the back side of the yolk..You don't have to pound it off..Light touches with the sledge slowly lifted it off the shaft..

Pic 3  I will need to buy one of those repair sleeves for the seal surface..deep groove  on this
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 01:27 AM
Pic 1 Pinion with it's worn out bearing

Pic 2 Small bearing of the pinion, preload shims, oil slinger and seal

Pic 3 Large bearing race and shims. Those shims are used to establish the 3.5 inch height needed for the pinion
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 01:30 AM
Pic 1. Totally empty case..Ready to be cleaned up

Pic 2 Parts is Parts

More later..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on August 14, 2023, 07:27 AM
Wow! I'm envious.  :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on August 14, 2023, 08:21 AM
Pffffff, to be quite honest, you are scaring the bejeebers out of me.

I know you have an older RV then me, but how many miles did this thing run? Is there any story to how this has happened?

At least the first owner had the complete bottom of the RV protected with tectyle, including the axle. Hence the reason I couldn't read the markings on the differential anymore. it's completely dry and even the drainplug is covered in Tectyle. Let's just hope it was enough to keep the gear oil in. Normally that's for life?


On the other hand, I admire your skills !-!  !-!  !-!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 14, 2023, 11:49 AM
Quote from: Mlw on August 14, 2023, 08:21 AMLet's just hope it was enough to keep the gear oil in. Normally that's for life?

Do yourself a favor and pull the fill plug out, located in the middle of the cover. The plug should have a strong magnet made into it..If it is covered in gray metallic fuzz..start to sweat!!
Stick a finger in the hole to see if there is any oil in there..

Ideally, there should be little fuzz on the magnet and oil dripping out the hole when you take the plug out..
You loose oil all the time..Little bit of seepage out the front yoke..At the wheel bearing hub seals and just evaporation..

Mine was starved for oil..the bearings loose their surface hardness due to a lack of lubrication..Now the top surface of the bearing is gone..Creating a little bit of play in the bearings..

Things start to slap around inside there and the slow destruction is in progress..

If you find a bunch of fuzz on the magnet, the best you can do is a good drain and fill..Pull the cover off and clean it all out a best as you can.
If you ignore it all, then make sure your auto insurance covers towing.

My odometer reads 15000 miles..It is a 5 digit odometer..So is it 115000 or 215000? 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on August 14, 2023, 03:15 PM

Well, at least you doubled my count of 580000. Also 5 digit, but even things in the engine looked to good to be 1580000. Certainly when you look at the fact that i'm always told that most Americans think a 100.000 mile motor junk? (So rivise or throw out.)

I've put up a few links of This guy (https://m.youtube.com/@ViceGripGarage?cbrd=1) on CWVRV already. He pulls out the greatest junkyard cars out of fields in the middle of nowhere an make them run again. He's always telling to look at the break pedal and wear and tear on the interior. With me (except for the severe waterdamage) everything looks and works way to good to be more and would equal the milage of many other Dodge motorhomes I saw.

What I don't know is which of the two previous owners put the most miles on it, but as the first one at least bothered tectyling the underneath I'm guessing he took pretty good care of it where the latter did technically everything to distroy it and seem to have had all the well known problems with the chassis electronics. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 21, 2023, 10:25 PM
The parts for the differential are still not here yet..I need to clean everything like the main case before I can start assemble with the new parts.

But to keep busy, I thought I would try powder coating a rim..17 inch rim is heavy..I sand blasted and then by hand tried to detail it till it looked clean bare metal.

Pic 1 shows the rim on the tray on the table ready to be coated..

Pic 2 shows the gun actually spraying the powder..Like smoke from a cigarette.

Pic 3 shows the rim partially coated with the powder.

Pic 4 shows the rim fully coated...1 side as I need to flip it over after this side is done..Ready to close it up in the oven to bake..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 21, 2023, 10:29 PM
Here it is in the oven with that extention I made to fit the rim in the oven..Adds about 6 inches to the depth of the oven to make it fit..

Baked at 395 for 1 hour..I pulled it out and there was some flaws in the finish that bled through the white..

What is nice about the powder coat system, is while it is still hot, you pull the rim out and spray another coat to cover up the flaws..Called hot flocking..So the rim has 2 coats..

Baked it for another 30 minutes and here is the results..Looks brand new!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 22, 2023, 03:13 PM
Here is the other side of the rim..

Pic 1..I needed to make a stand for the rim to lift it off the oven rack..Keeps the center of the rim off the rack..If it was setting on the rack, it might ruin the face of the rim..This makes it sit on the holes and the lug nuts will cover where the the stand was..
I designed this stand with Autocad and having a CNC plasma cutter table helps too!!

Pic 2 shows it lifted off the rack with the stand..

Pic 3  Shows the 4 studs of the stand..this rims have a 8 lug 6.5 inch diameter pattern..

Pic 4 shows the finished product straight out of the oven

I only have 6 more rims to go!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on August 22, 2023, 09:33 PM
 :)clap Hehehehe What an inspiration. I have a feeling your going to inspector a hole new process for a bunch of us guys. Fantastic work. Keep it up. Your showing us a hole new avenue of possibilities.  Thanks
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 22, 2023, 11:02 PM
The parts are starting to roll in to rebuild it all..I will take pictures to show old to new..

But we need to get the axle pumpkin clean inside and out..
That will involve hand scraping the thick grease..Been doing that a bit and some of the areas have grease that is 1/4 thick..

This thing has never been torn down..

Then a good power wash..Soda blaster..and then sand blaster to clean the outside to shiny metal..

It is a mess that will need some time to get clean.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 25, 2023, 11:05 PM
I have this well used soda blaster from Harbor Freight..Pic 1

And it uses baking soda as the media to blast your parts..Pic 2

And here it inside the bag..Looks like granular sugar..But what is nice is when you power wash the item, the baking soda just washes away with the water..It is a lot safer on you too..Unlike sand that can mess up your lungs..Pic 3
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 25, 2023, 11:14 PM
The soda blaster works great on greasy parts..The soda sucks up the grease and then blasts it clean..It has a hard time with paint,but rust just blasts away..

The problem area is inside the axle tubes..I came up with a piece of roto rooter clean out wire and attached a terry cloth rag to the end of it..Drill motor at the other end and soaked the rag in mineral spirits..paint thinner,,and just ran the rag in and out while spinning the drill..Mud and grease was just flowing out the tubes..7-8 application of a spinning wet rag and it came out pretty good..

Then a full power wash to do the final cleaning..It flash rusted a bit but air compressor dried pretty fast..

Primer and paint next then assembly..

Let the fun begin!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 26, 2023, 01:20 PM
Here is all the parts..Not all that I need..need a good cover gasket..

Ring and pinion...
Bolts for carrier to ring..12 each..
New nut and washer..pinion to yoke
Carrier bearings and races
Yoke seal
Pinion bearings and races..
All sorts of shims..came with the ring and pinion kit and others I have saved from a recent job I did on my e350 Ford Van..It has a Dana 70 HD in it..Has bigger bearing for the carrier..really the only difference..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 27, 2023, 03:31 PM
I need to paint the gas tank(Main)..so it was soda blasted..Then Rustolium rusty metal primer..

Same thing with the top of the differential..then when they dry, I can roll it over for the bottom side..

So while everything is drying, I decided to open up one of the front brake hubs and see how they look.

Bearing numbers are....

Timken 25520 Large race
Timken 14274 Small race
Timken 25590 Large bearing
Timken 14116 Small bearing..

As for the seal..no markings what so ever..So I went to National seal and bearing..Found their catalog
and with a shaft of 2.44" and a bore of 3.625..4th picture says it is a 3210

They are everywhere...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154930638636..

I can't find where I got it but it interchanges with a SKF 24459

https://us.rs-online.com/product/cr-seals-skf-/24459/73210724/

This SKF has a leather seal to it..Never seen one of those before..

I bought the 3210 seal with the rubber seal..

As for the bearing/races...Rock Auto...Just put Timken (number) and it will come up with several sellers..

Ebay (Sorry MLW) has many sellers too..

Now I get to hurry up and wait for the parts to come in.. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 27, 2023, 03:56 PM
This rotor is an oddball..Can't find it anywhere..12.25 wide by 1.5 thick.

The rotors are in good shape so I don't need to replace them..

Everything I find is 1.125 thick with a 1.118 discard width..

These have a 1.485 discard originally 1.5 new..These are 1.5 as is so I am good..

Couldn't find them new though..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on August 27, 2023, 04:59 PM
Simply outstanding work, actually I'm having second thoughts on my rebuild...Ok second thoughts over. I absolutely detest heavy rearend work, axle grease would be one of most profoundly disgusting oders known to mankind.

Carry on I am waiting for you to assemble the rear end. It will be the first time I've ever seen it done. I would very much like to have put a different ratio in my 33 but..no experience at all there.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 27, 2023, 07:54 PM
Are you sure you do not have a R400 (RM350) chassis?
Per the Service Manual (Page 5-23):
R/RM-300 Rotor: 1.170 - 1.190 Thickness
R400 (RM350) Rotor 1.520 - 1.550 Thickness
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on August 27, 2023, 08:42 PM
https://www.partsgeek.com/wmvzymm-dodge-rm350-brake-rotor.html

Dynamic Friction 119642-05971802

Thank You Dave!! I think I will be okay with the rotors that I have but by looking for a "RM350" which only seems to show up as a 1974 part, I found this part linked above..

The problem with finding this part number, is none of the listings have sizes listed..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on August 27, 2023, 11:01 PM
The trick with this is that you have to follow the Centric 120.67011 path for information. Unfortunately the Centric site itself only shows info for the R/RM300 part 120.67004.  R300, R400, & R500 chassis all have different size rotors.

Via google I found the following old info

Centric 120.67011 (https://www.autohausaz.com/pn/CE-12067011)

Info (https://www.autohausaz.com/images/CE-12067011.jpg)

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 03, 2023, 10:34 PM
Sorry for the long time since last posting..Came down sick..Just getting over it..

The differential isthe project to get on and finish..Here goes!!

With the diff all painted, time to install parts..

Pic 1 is looking down the pinion shaft area..small bearing race goes in first..no shims or anything.

Pic 2 and 3 shows the small race showing both sides.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 03, 2023, 10:37 PM
Put a little grease in the area where the race goes..little on the race and the race just taps in with a brass punch..go easy with the blows to tap it in..if it is straight, it taps right in
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 03, 2023, 10:43 PM
Main bearing onto the shaft of the pinion..

It is a press fit..or not..

If you have a press..you use it when the bearing is room temp..

Or heat the bearing..I did 300 for 30 minutes..Had the shaft ready on the table and the bearing just fell on and down the shaft..no press was needed
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 03, 2023, 11:08 PM
There is where the fun starts..

I found a nice picture from the web..It really shows what we have to set up..The Pinion Height..

And a Dana 70..the distance from the top(Button) of the pinion to the midpoint of the bearing caps for the ring gear carrier is suppose to measure 3.5 inches..

So the gauge reaches down to the pinion..add the thickness of the plate that the gauge sets on

My plate is .178 thick..plus 3.5 inches for the distance...3.678 is what I need to be perfect..

Shims under the big race installed is what make the height adjustable..

Problem is the race is installed with a brass drift like the small one..

If the shims are wrong then you get to pound out the race to adjust the shims..usually in up wrecking the shims doing that..

So you make a race from the old race that has been filed down on the outside to make it drop into the bore..that way there is no damage to the shims..You just reach in to the race and lift it in and out by hand..

You can see how the outside of the race was ground dwn using a flapper disc of my hand grinder..

It is called a setup race..once the distance is set then you install the real race with the proper shims..

Originally the set up had a oil shield shim and 4 other shims to add up to .050 thickness..

Always keep the original parts especially the shims to get you close to what was the setup of the old parts..To help you set up the new parts..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 05, 2023, 12:13 AM
The way I started to find the perfect 3.5 inch pinion height was install the pinion and it's bearings without any shims

That involves both bearings and races and then tighten down some to squeeze the bearings tight in their location

Checking the height, I figured I was too low by .059
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 05, 2023, 12:18 AM
So I created a shim stack that was .060 all together..

After all that I was too tall for the pinion..I had 3.672 for the height..It needs to be 3.678..About .006 difference..That can make for a poor meshing of the teeth..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 05, 2023, 12:22 AM
Took the shim stack back out and made a stack that was .055 and that hit the height it needed..

You end up doing this sometimes several times till it measures out..

After all that was done, then I installed the new race and double checked the height again and it was just fine!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 05, 2023, 12:29 AM
Now for the preload of the pinion bearings..In other words how tight to squeeze the bearing together to eliminate all play and not have them too tight so that they burn up..

Shims..how many thousands of a stack of shims do you need to get it just right..

Pic 1 shows the original shim stack and they were beaten hard because they were loose..couldn't even measure them to see what they were originally..

Pic 2..Here is the shims from the kit and other ones I had on hand..I just installed a stack as a guess..

Pic 3 shows what I tried first

Pic 4 shows where they are installed on the pinion shaft
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 05, 2023, 12:57 AM
I must have tried 15 times trying to get the perfect preload of 20 inch pounds of torque to rotate the pinion..

Too tight..too loose ..way too tight..way too loose..then when I was ready to quit for the night I tried one more stack and hit it!!

You need an inch pound torque wrench after you tighten the yoke nut down to 250 pounds..

Sometimes the pinion would be super loose, other times you couldn't turn it at all..

It was a hassle but I got it at 20 inch pounds to turn the pinion..

Now I need to set it all up for the ring carrier and its preload ad backlash..

We are having fun now !!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 11, 2023, 12:48 AM
Time to work on the Ring carrier..The big center section that holds the spider gears..that is the set of gears that allow your wheels to spin in a different rate to allow you to go around turns..And it holds the 41 gear ring..the big ring that meshes with the pinion..

Got to clean it first..I have a 5 gallon bucket with mineral spirits in it..Just soak ll the parts in there for a day or so.

Pic 1 shows everything that is filthy dirty..

Pic 2 shows parts being pulled after soaking

Pic 3 shows everything laid out..Still pretty dirty..

I bead blast next
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 11, 2023, 12:52 AM
Pic 1 and 2 show front and back of the part that bolts the ring to it

Pic 3 and 4 show it after baking soda blasting it..Then it is scrubbed in the sink with Simple Green..

Gotta watch out for the bolt holes..The soda will pack into the holes..Water and compressed air will clear them out..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 11, 2023, 12:53 AM
Everything all clean and laid out for assemble..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 16, 2023, 11:27 PM
Assemble of the ring gear assemble..This is the thing that spins on 2 bearings..holds the big ring gear and has the spider gears that allow the wheels to spin at different speeds as you go around a corner..

Pic 1..shows how the 2 piece case is split and marked for assemble line up to the marks shown in red.

Pic 2..this is the piece that holds the 4 spider gears..it has 4 spider gears and the later model one piece carrier only has 2..notice the wear on one side of the shaft and hardly any wear on the other..Because the hi wear is the side that drives the wheels forward..

Pic 3...First is the piece that splines with the half axles..Has a thrust washer and then just drops in..

Pic 4..Shows it in place..35 splines to match the half axle shafts..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 16, 2023, 11:32 PM
Pic 5..shows the 4 spider gears laid in..

Pic 6..Shows the other spline gear laid on top of the spider gears and the top piece ready to be set on it..

Pic 7..if everything is right, then the top piece just sets on to nice

Pic 8.. shows the 8 bolts that hold it together installed and snug tight..Need to be torque to 70 pounds..
Need to install the big ring gear now..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 16, 2023, 11:40 PM
Pic 9..The ring is a press fit that is done with the 12 bolts..you just have to line it all up as you tighten the bolts down evenly, it draws the gear towards the carrier for a very tight fit..these 12 bolts are just snugged down..110 torque for them

Pic 10..The side bearings need to be properly shimmed..No idea what I need as the original were shown to be destroyed..This is why I am doing all of this to fix the bad stuff that would have caused troubles..I started with a .030 shim on each side..it will need more to set it all up

Pic 11 shows the bearing being press on..this can be done with light blows if you don't have a press..I press it with the race on top to protect the thin sheet metal bearing cage..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 16, 2023, 11:50 PM
Pic 13..shows a tool called a "Case Spreader"..What it does is allow you to open the case by.010 to.015 to help you load the ring carrier..Got to be careful not to stretch it open to much or you can damage the case..It just spreads it that little bit to help you drop the carrier in..

Pic 14..just shows the races in place..gives you an idea of how it is set up..

Pic 15..The races need to be on the bearings and you just set it down careful!!
Install the bearing caps..

Pic 16..With a pipe wrench on the yoke, you can now hold everything tight as you go around the carrier and torque all the bolts down properly..
The manual shows the carrier in a special vice to hold it properly to torque all the bolts..Installing it in the case holds it for you and the pipe wrench keeps anything from spinning while you torque it all down..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 16, 2023, 11:59 PM
This is where you are really tested..In the process of tightening the 8 bolts of the 2 piece carrier halves, one of the bolts snapped..Only 70 lbs of torque and SNAP!!

the bolt was fatigued..All the others torqued down just fine..Had to take it all out, take it apart but was easy enough to get the snapped off part out with a pair of vise grips..

I thought I was SKEE Rude!!..Just got to stay calm and think it though..

I am going to replace all 8 bolts..If another snapped off while driving, it would just grenade in there with you on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck!!

This stopped me from going any further till I find some bolts..7/16-14..2 inch long..Grade 8..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 17, 2023, 12:16 AM
Here is the top of the bolt..I think it is grade 8..A grade 8 washer to go with it..

I am glad it snapped..being towed off the side of the freeway and then getting fixed by Bubba in his road side repair shop would be expensive!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on September 17, 2023, 12:30 PM
When the bolt snapped..Thats a very lonely place to be in.. :shocked: As you have said..better now than later. You just saved many thousands of dollars in the long run..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 17, 2023, 12:56 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on September 17, 2023, 12:30 PMAs you have said..better now than later.

When you buy a ring and pinion kit, it always comes with the 12 new bolts that hold the big ring to the carrier..Warnings in the service manual to never use the old ones..

There is no new bolts in the kit like the one that snapped..and no mention of replacing them..The big 12 bolts get 110 LBS of torque..this one that snapped is only 70..

I just need to make this as mechanically solid as possible..it would cost at least 300 to drag your rig off the freeway..and then to actually fix it??..As old as they are, no junkyard is going to have a replacement..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on September 17, 2023, 01:02 PM
You might want to update yourself as to what the current market rates are for heavy trucks. And then find one who can actually do the work.

I've been quoted 2500 on r&r a p30 brake system

800 to " install headers"read labor.

A new rear end on the road? 3500/4000. Believe it.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 19, 2023, 11:59 PM
I am waiting for those special bolts to replace the one that snapped..But I figured while I am waiting, I can still get it all shimmed out to spec..

Pic 1 shows the thing all installed and I can replace the bolts 1 at a time as you rotate it around..

This job is not for the faint of heart..This is a B I Itch to get right..You must have a minimum of a bearing clam shell puller..Case spreader..and a dial indicator to set backlash..Also a inch pound torque wrench to set the pinion bearing preload..

There are plenty of YT videos on the Dana 70 to watch..

Pic 2 shows the front yoke..That nut has a torque spec of 250-275 LBS..Better have a good torque wrench and a strong back!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 20, 2023, 12:09 AM
Pic 3..while it is in a place that is very easy to get to, lets make a nice new set of brake lines!! I attached temporarily the brake backing plates and mounted the wheel cylinders..That way  can make the brake lines fit nice..

Pic4..Using NiCopp (Nickle-Copper) for the brake lines..Not steel..It is very easy to bend and it won't rust out out like steel lines..When you buy a 25 foot roll, you get a good selection of fittings to go with it(in the tuna can)..And then I used stainless spring wrap that goes over the brake line to protect it from being hit

Pic 5. bending this stuff is pretty easy..I have used my thumbs to bend it or use a bender like this one

Pic 6..I bought a Mastercool flair tool..It can do anything..in all sizes too..It can make double flair brake lines..fuel lines..It was a little pricey but it is a life time tool..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 20, 2023, 12:17 AM
This flair tool has plenty of YT videos demonstrating it..And there is plenty of sellers that you can shop around to get the best price..

Pic 8 shows that the tube is clamped using the 3/16 tube clamp..

Pic 9 shows that the tube needs to be flush to the fence shown in pic 8..Pic 9 shows what it looks like when it is right..

Pic 10 shows that this is a 2 step method.tool on the left is used first and then the right finishes it

Pic 13 shows the final result..Nice flair!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 20, 2023, 12:21 AM
Pic 14 shows the basic bent tubing laid out..

Pic 15 shows the spring wrap and the other fitting and flair completing the line..

Pic 16 shows both lines installed..After this was done, I took the lines, and backing plates back off..It will be easier to to mount the axle back in with out the possibility of damaging anything..

All of this has been a TON of work!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 20, 2023, 12:26 AM
I bought a 5/8 -18 thread tap and die set off of Ebay..Chase and clean up the threads of the shackles that bolt the axle assemble to the springs..Keep it well oiled during the cutting..Worked very well..

Pic 18..Gotta fix this bent shaft that mounts the shock absorber..Maybe I will just cut it off and use a grade 8 bolt to replace it.. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on September 20, 2023, 02:01 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 16, 2023, 11:59 PMThis is where you are really tested..In the process of tightening the 8 bolts of the 2 piece carrier halves, one of the bolts snapped..Only 70 lbs of torque and SNAP!!

I'm so glad it was the bolt that snapped and the threads in the carrier weren't damaged! Helicoils wouldn't be strong enough to fix that I'm sure...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on September 20, 2023, 02:06 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 20, 2023, 12:26 AMPic 18..Gotta fix this bent shaft that mounts the shock absorber..Maybe I will just cut it off and use a grade 8 bolt to replace it.. 

One of my shock mount rods was bent too, but not nearly that bad! I just whacked it straight again and put a new shock on! I agree though, yours will probably have to be replaced.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 20, 2023, 04:05 PM
Quote from: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on September 20, 2023, 02:06 PMI just whacked it straight again

I tried that..couldn't get any movement out of it using a sledge hammer..the problem I have is mounting it in a vise solid enough so that the blows would actually cause movement..

Just finished talking to a friend that really knows his stuff when it come to fabricating steel.."heat it up with a propane torch..bend it with a long pipe..when it is straight, then quince it with oil..it will re temper the steel to the original hardness"

It is only a shock mount..if it breaks going down the road, it isn't going to strand me..So I will give it a try..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 24, 2023, 03:14 PM
I don't have an acetylene torch..Only one of those hand held torches using MAPP gas..I couldn't apply enough heat rapidly enough to get it red hot..

Pic 2 shows no red glow..

So Pic 3 shows the thing chopped off

And Pic 4 shows the hole I drilled waiting for a 5/8 Grade 8 bolt for it
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 24, 2023, 03:20 PM
I know that I showed the powder coating system before but this is such a nice way of restoring parts, that it needs to be shown again..

I use a piece of 12 gauge copper wire from some Romex house wire..You use it for the ground strap and to hang it up..Pic 5..

Pic 6..All powdered up..I sand blast the parts first then wash in the sink to remove the last bit of dirt and dust from the sandblasting..

Pic 7..Hanging up in the oven..Ready to close the door..

Pic 8..Pulled from the oven..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 24, 2023, 03:22 PM
Here is the shackle bolts being powder coated..If you get powder on the threads it can be removed by the thread die used earlier or a bench top grinder with a wire wheel
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 24, 2023, 04:22 PM
Going back to the busted bolt..The new set uses a 5/8 wrench head and a larger washer base..

The old bolt used a 9/16 wrench head and the washer base is much smaller..

The new bolts are stronger and worry is at a minimum with them
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 24, 2023, 09:56 PM
There is a definite conclusion about working on these motorhomes..EVERYTHING is filthy!! Pic 11

Sand blasting and wire brush is work..Pics 12-13

But the results are really nice to see..Pic 14
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2023, 12:08 AM
Pic 1..Time to get it down off the saw horses..I set it on my trans dolly.

Pic 2..But it was too tall to fit it under the springs..Had to pull it back out..

Pic 3..And set it on my floor jack to wheel it under the springs..

Pic 4..And start elevating it up
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2023, 12:15 AM
Pictures showing it being rotated in position and shackled into place..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2023, 12:20 AM
Time for something new..The right wall has been like this for about 4 years now..Time to fix it..

With the skin laid on the ground, you can start making a new wall..Show the wheel wells made up..

Using 1.5x1.5 16 gauge steel tubing to make the frame for the wall.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on September 26, 2023, 09:40 AM
That rear axle looks beautiful!

Ho-Lee Cow! I don't think I'd seen a picture of that side of your RV yet! That side must have been completely rotted out, huh? Seeing the skin on the ground like that makes it look like a cartoon that has been flattened by an acme product  :grin:

These rigs do look pretty much the same coming or going, don't they? Haha I had a hard time telling which end was the front for a second.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on September 26, 2023, 01:20 PM
Just two thoughts..

Bat Chit Crazy

Absolutely Exceptional Work

Your energy and determination is admirable. More plz... :cool:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2023, 01:50 PM
Yea, I am up to my neck in Bat Chit Crazy..If I couldn't do this by myself I wouldn't be doing this at all..
For example, that differential came out to about 400 for parts..Eyez, you mentioned over 2000 for the same work..I would not have done it for that price..

As for the total take down of the wall..It just resulted in a long list of comedic errors..

Big Al..When you repair that wall that is flapping in the wind..DO NOT use pressure treated lumber..Nothing in the way of glue sticks to it..

I was just so disappointed the way Winnebago built these things with the foam walls..I have seen many YT videos of factories building their units that way and other building a frame for the walls..

Here is a picture of the start of the bottom edge for the new wall..I was thinking to use metal for the strength and then some 2x2 wood to create window openings..and then hard foam in between everywhere..

 

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2023, 01:54 PM
Quote from: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on September 26, 2023, 09:40 AMThese rigs do look pretty much the same coming or going, don't they?

I didn't even notice that!! I have the skin laying down just to take measurements..It is amazing how un straight everything is..Work it..Work it..

The picture you mention has the rear at the bottom of the picture
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on September 26, 2023, 10:38 PM
Thanks for the tip about pressure treated lumber, I was just thinking that!

So, with the way the U-channel is at the bottom of all the walls, any sealer leaks results in it being a bathtub for the wood to soak in. Has anyone tried drilling some drain holes in the bottom of the channel to drain the eventual leaks? Is that a good idea or a bad one?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 26, 2023, 10:45 PM
Quote from: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on September 26, 2023, 10:38 PMIs that a good idea or a bad one?

I think it is an excellent idea..I think you are going to use 2x2 wood for your repairs..Maybe if all the new wood was at least primed to protect the wood..Maybe not though as the glue may not stick to the primer..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 28, 2023, 09:54 PM
I worked all day on this today and really didn't get much done..Talk about being on a fat learning curve!!

Pic 1 and 2 show just laying up what will become the foundation of the wall..It is a bit heavy but I am trying to keep it as light as I can..

Above this steel foundation will be a regular wood wall..much lighter with that..

Pic 3 just shows the layout around the wheel wells and the vertical short pieces that attach to the steel frame of the chassis..At least my welding skills have picked up some.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on September 30, 2023, 10:21 PM
Still working on the foundation frame..This frame work looks like something you would see inside a Sherman tank..And strong as can be..

Pic 4 shows the right rear area where the propane tanks go..Test fitting the original door to the frame and it fits just fine..

Pic 5 shows with the square that I am perpendicular to the floor with the framing..

Pic 6 shows that the original factory outriggers are bent..From time or just installed out of square..I am going to cut them off partially to be able to bend them straight again..

Pic 7 shows there is 3 out of square brackets.

There is NOTHING on this rig that doesn't need fixing, repairing, rebuilding or replacing!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 02, 2023, 09:47 PM
Pic 1...Shows the fitting of the sheet metal that goes on the inside of the skirt..This is below the floor..I guess it could be called a rock guard..

Pic 2..Rolled on the primer using Rustolium Rusty primer..Oil based.

Pic 3...That bracket that is used to mount the skirt that was way out of plumb..What caused that was it also supports the front step..So as someone steps on the step it would twist this downward..After 50 years, I could see why it was so messed up.

Pic 4...I cut the weld and bent it straight..And then added this triangular brace ..Straight and strong now!

And no I do not make my living as a welder :P
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 02, 2023, 09:52 PM
I am going to permanently mount this to the coach tomorrow..With butyl tape at the seam at the floor line..

The only thing that is missing is the door frame..It would be a good investment of time to make from steel..But this frame work should be in place and cut in the door frame..

The rest of the wall will be built of wood..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on October 04, 2023, 12:51 PM
Given today's pricing is aluminum more expensive than wood. Prior to owning a rambler I would have been highly skeptical of aluminum. Today I would highly recommend it. In less it priced crazy.
Either way I admire your build and efforts.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 04, 2023, 01:08 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on October 04, 2023, 12:51 PMGiven today's pricing is aluminum more expensive than wood

I will get back to you on that..My supplier that had the steel on hand can get aluminum also. I would need to invest in an adapter to my welder that would handle the aluminum wire..I believe you would need a new tank for the shielding gas for aluminum..

When you do regular MIG (metal inert gas) you have a tank of Argon CO2 mix as the shielding gas..
With aluminum, it is pure CO2..Or maybe it is is pure Argon..

Either way it will take a bit of an investment just to make it set up to weld aluminum..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 04, 2023, 01:19 PM
The attachment the lower wall that I have been working on has come to a screeching halt after I saw this on line.. I was going to use those self tapping screws that have the drill bit on the end of it..

But then I saw this Rivet nut system that seems much better..Just clamp the frame work to the chassis and re drill 1/4 inch holes where mounting points would be..

Then install these "Rivnuts" with the special tool..Using 1/4-20 bolts, you can then bolt it to the chassis..

I have everything being shipped now..it will take a bit of time to get here..Got one update on the shipping of the tool and they said they just finished roping it to the turtle and it is on it's way.. :grin:

I think this will be much more secure than screws..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on October 04, 2023, 03:31 PM
My rambler is riveted at every point, so far not one metal screw, and not one loose connection. Very impressive for a 40yr old 30ft truck/RV.At the same time very easy to remove and re-rivet...So far :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 05, 2023, 01:09 PM
Just got the quote on the aluminum..For a 20 foot stick..1.5" square..16 gauge...

55 per stick..
Going to go to my welding supply shop and see what a tank of gas is needed and the spool gun cost will be

Wood..Home depot has 2x2, 8 foot long kiln dry wood at $3.50 each..That is 8.75 for 20 feet..

Aluminum is pretty much permanent..Wood rots away as all Winnebago owners know 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on October 05, 2023, 03:43 PM
Almost twice as expensive, I've used those 2×2 for a few jobs. One spefic job was my homedepot cheapo cabinets, I literally built a roll cage in each one to reinforce each cabinet.Glued and screwed and sealed with paint. So far so good, no warping but they are solidly attached to the press board cabinets Yep just said that.

Just a reflection here, someday I will sell this old RV, I completely expect over 10k or more for it. Simple reasons go find another working RV in this condition.Actually find one for 15k and get back to me. If your interested. Quite politely of course.

From what I've seen of your rebuild you absolutely have something special going on there.

.

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 05, 2023, 10:09 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on October 05, 2023, 03:43 PMAlmost twice as expensive

Twice??

Aluminum is 6 times more expensive than wood..Plus all the extra equipment needed to weld the joints and miters
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 05, 2023, 10:15 PM
This is why I laid all the skin out..You can take some pretty good original measurements on how it was made..Reverse engineering!!

Pic 1..From the very top to bottom is 90 inches..Then the height is increased by the width of the roof material

Pic 3..Width of the original access door opening..27 inches..

Pic 4..All these numbers to create the door frame..It is just laid up there..not installed yet..

Still waiting for the rivet nut stuff to get here..These sellers on Ebay are in no hurry to get it to you..Slowest shipping(cheapest) method to get it to you..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 07, 2023, 09:54 PM
Pic 1..Using the original side wall, it makes for a great template to replicate the top right corner..Just fit and weld it together..Use plenty of clamps to keep it in place while fitting the next piece..

Pic 2..Trial fit after Trial fit after Trial fit!!
The front panels are rotted away as usual..The edge of the panel were wood, but gone!!

Pic 3..All fitted up with the opening for the window in the bunk area..
This was all day to get this done..

Next is the area between what I just did and the lower foundation skirt area..And that should be it for the steel on this wall..Wood will finish up the mid section aft of the entry door..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 14, 2023, 07:19 PM
Alright!!

Just finished the starboard side when it comes to the steel framing...I used 8 sticks of 1.5x1.5 16 gauge square tubing..Each stick weighs 30 pounds..240 total..This framing makes it as rock steady as can be..The rest of the wall aft of the entry door will be made from kiln dried wood..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 15, 2023, 10:35 AM
Hey Guys, Just back from a Bago trip. I was wondering Question RockwoodMike :  do you still have all the pictures you posted between September 28, 2019 and November 25, 2019?  Those would be the ones that should be on page 2 to page 10.  They've disappeared, and that is SOOOO disappointing!  What a great reference set for the rest of us - gone... Thanks mate. Keep up the good work Mark. Love this site.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 15, 2023, 01:12 PM
I have all the pics..Most from the start are the rip out pictures..

The roof..differential and this starboard framing is about all I have accomplished on this project..

My first attempt at repairing the starboard wall was a fiasco and didn't work..What I was doing was replicating what Winnebago was doing..Using glue and staples..

So I am kind of glad that the pictures didn't come through on the ISP transfer that Oz did.
Because it shows how not to do something..

I will take a picture of what I did and then ripped it back out and show how wrong it was..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 15, 2023, 05:56 PM
Pic 1..I designed and made this special jig for use on a wood router..Cad skills and a cnc plasma cutter has it's advantages!!

Pic 2..Make the center mark for the location of a stud on the base plate wood..

Pic 3..I went out and bought a Bauer hand router and a kit that has 5 router bits..Used the 3/8 size bit. With the jig in place and clamped, it is just a matter of cutting out what the jig allows you to do..1/4 deep to act as a pocket for the 2x2 stud..

Pic 4..Add a blob of construction adhesive and 2 pocket screws and that connection is going no where!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 15, 2023, 10:28 PM
Ok so we know I'm dumb as a stump. But Mike how do I enlarge the pic's so I can see them :rolleyes: Thanks
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2023, 12:06 AM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on October 15, 2023, 10:28 PMhow do I enlarge the pic's

That picture in post 414 is just a screen shot of the folder that I have all my pictures in..Not going to be able to enlarge them..

I will see what I can do to add in all the missing pictures
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2023, 01:12 AM
I think I need to clean this up some..getting a bit cluttered :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 16, 2023, 09:12 AM
Hahahahaha Looks normal to me.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 16, 2023, 09:15 AM
By the way....Your doing a magnificent job keeping us up to speed on your progress. The work your doing is mind blowing. Can't wait each day to see what you've accomplished. Thanks a million times over.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2023, 09:49 PM
Pic 1..With the wall missing the roof was sagging under it's own weight..This back right corner needed to use a floor jack and 2x4 to lift it back up..

Pic 2..Yea I know, I am crazy with the steel, but it needs a good strong corner..
You just fit and measure and clamp it in place..Using the original skin to measure everything.

Pic 3..After everything was fitted and clamped in place, I tack welded it in place as best as I could..Took it all down and then fully welded it up..Plenty of use of the grinder too! :P

Pic 4..After all the welding and grinder cleanup, it actually fit back into place!! :)clap ..I need to weld in a mounting plate for the clearance light in the upper corner..Then I can paint it all up..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: BigAlsVehicleEmporium on October 16, 2023, 10:51 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 15, 2023, 01:12 PMMy first attempt at repairing the starboard wall was a fiasco and didn't work..What I was doing was replicating what Winnebago was doing..Using glue and staples..

RockwoodMike, I'd love it if you posted pictures of what you did that didn't work. I'm going to have to rebuild my front passenger side wall and was planning on replicating the original construction. If that doesn't work well I'd love to know about it before I start!

Alan
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2023, 11:29 PM
You have a 2x4 originally made into the wall that is at the level of the floor..That 2x4 is screwed to the floor..And that 2x4 needs to be secured to the wall above and below it..The adhesive that I used was liquid nails..It stuck the foam and the 2x4 to the aluminum fair enough, but it was weak in comparison to the original factory strength..

But there was no adhesion between the 2x4 and the foam and i figured that needs to be a good connection..I used pressure treated wood..Maybe the oil that is used in the wood caused the weak connection..
Using regular wood probable would have been a better story..

I had ripped out everything inside and with the way the walls are just foam, it just seemed so flimsy..
I tried to cut slots in the foam to install 2x2 in the slots..Nothing was really working to my satisfaction..

So with all the other rot everywhere, I just said I will build it all again..Like the older trailers were made..Using something solid like steel, aluminum and wood.. 
 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2023, 11:41 PM
This is a picture of the rear lower wall that I remade..Yes I used pressure treated wood, but I ran the wood through a power planer to reduce the thickness from 1.5 inches to 3/4.because that is the original wall thickness..

Because I planned the wood down it removed the oiled surface and the glue stuck very well..

But in the other walls, the 2x4 was left full size and the glue didn't stick very well..

Bottom line..don't use pressure treated wood..It don't stick!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2023, 11:52 PM
Here is what I was dealing with..You would open the wall and confetti would fall out..This picture was when the interior was gutted out..Just a hollow box and you would lean up against the wall and it would flex..That's when I understood that there is nothing solid to these boxes..

This motorhome had leaks everywhere..The floor is rotted..the roof caved in..The eyebrow area above the windshield is rotted..

When I saw all of this, I think I properly named this blog.."Complete tear out"
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 16, 2023, 11:55 PM
Front right corner..Dust!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 17, 2023, 12:04 AM
I am beginning to remember things as I look over the pictures..

I did this test using the liquid nails..foam..and regular plywood..And it really stuck hard..

But then started to use the pressure treated..

Just don't use pressure treated..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 17, 2023, 12:09 AM
I usually screw up on the first try of everything..Over confident and very little in knowledge..

Maybe if you used 3/4 exterior grade A/C plywood and stripped it down to 3.5 width pieces..You would have exterior glued wood and then double them up to create the 1.5 inch thickness needed..

Super straight..exterior glue and the liquid nails would stick well
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 12:21 AM
Pic 1..Cleaned it up some..Just removed a bunch of stuff and stored it in a shed till needed..Getting it ready for the floor replacement and removing the port wall.

Pic 2..This is something that was covered up with the carpet and I mentioned it way earlier in this build..There is the big dent in the floor at the drivers seat and I can't figure how it happened..

Pic 3..Shows it up close..

Pic 4..Up close...Any ideas?? If a tire blew, it would cause a upward dent..This is like a anvil was dropped on the floor..Weird .. :shocked:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 12:27 AM
Pic 1..440 ready for a complete rebuild..Did you really think I would handle it any other way??

Pic 2..Time to remove the generator..What a mess

Pic 3..I have this cart made from 2x6s and 4 HF wheels that I used on another project.And it works just perfect for the generator to sit on..

Pic 4..Just removed the 4 bolts holding the frame and disconnected the hookups to it and slid it out and landed right on the cart..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 12:30 AM
Pic 1..Sitting on the cart after a little compressed air to blow some of the dust away..

Pic 2..The generator bay without the generator!

Pic 3..Removed the filthy sound insulation..and brushed it clean of the dust..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on October 18, 2023, 02:01 PM
Watching this part of your build is quite humbling. I thought my ordeal was a argeous...Looking back I can say I had it quite easy.

Carry on its quite motivating.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 10:16 PM
Pic 1..I took the lower port wall down..The floor and frame work is the beginning of this..

Pic 2..Removing the black tank..Supported from the bottom while the 4 bolts are removed

Pic 3..These large head bolts are used to tie down the floor to the framing and used to hold up the black tank.

Pic 4..Instead of going under to try and remove a rusted nut, it is done from the top..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 10:20 PM
Pic 1..I just cut the head off with the cut off wheel

Pic 2..with a screw driver, just punched the bolt down and out..

Pic 3..And down it came..Just glad that nothing was in it!! :P

Pic 4..This tank was repaired over and over again with the final repair involving a clamp to hold t all together..  :shocked:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 10:23 PM
Pic 1..Quality clamp from China..

Pic 2..Original Winnebago tank..Can't read the numbers..I need to look around for a tank to replace it
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 11:36 PM
Pic 1..There is a side panel of steel..Almost like a door panel.

Pic 2..Grinding off each spot rivet to remove it.

Pic 3..With that off, you can see the floor panel and how bad condition it is in.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 11:38 PM
I took out this front floor area, to help get the bent piece of steel out..Just gives me better access to it all
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 18, 2023, 11:41 PM
All I can do is take it out in chunks..a little at a time..Once it is all out then I can rebuild it all..

That is all for tonight..Last picture shows it was sunset..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Elandan2 on October 19, 2023, 08:47 AM
Regarding the holding tank, you may be able to find the correct one looking at the files for 1975. That is the furthest back Winnebago has records online for. https://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files/Winnebago/Service/wincd/1975/75common.pdf
I have purchased new holding tanks for ours from Winnebago, although a little pricey, it makes it simple to replace them.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 19, 2023, 12:13 PM
Hi Elandan2,

Thanks for the parts list!! I printed out the holding tank pages of that PDF..And compared each listing to my original tank..Nothing really matches.

That is alright...Taking a quick look at Ebay for holding tanks..Plenty of universal tanks to pic from..

For as far as I have ripped this coach, making a universal tank fit shouldn't be a problem..

The coach has the black tank located as shown, the gray tank is located behind the rear axle..

So you have to have two dump hoses to empty the tanks..

Customizing all of this should be easy enough when you are as deep in this project as it is!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 19, 2023, 10:02 PM
I didn't have much time today. Other obligations to fill :angry:

But some work was done continuing from yesterday..

Pic 1..Removal of some of the damaged area..There was no doubt that it was welded in using spot welds and stick welding to originally construct the floor platform ..

Pic 2..Just another view of the area cut away of the bent steel.

Pic 3..Fitting in the new piece..It is going to be very strong!!

Pic 4..I will tack weld it up and wait for my new welding helmet to come in ..What I have been using is a helmet that is dark all the time. Yea it is old and time to replace it..


Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Elandan2 on October 20, 2023, 08:21 AM
Have you ever thought of using an adhesive for attaching the sheet metal pieces? I've used 3M 8115 epoxy on automotive floor pans and the stuff is incredible. After curing, the metal will tear before the bond.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 20, 2023, 10:26 PM
I have just been welding in everything. Just pick up the torch full weld, and it is over with..I don't think I could trust an adhesive especially on rusted metal. I use flux core .030 wire and it really does a solid job..Just blasts through the paint and rust..

Pic 1.. here are spot welds that had to be drilled out. It was just holes and then MIG welded over..

Pic 2..Just cut it all out in chunks..In order to get to the next area..

Pic 3 and 4..Finally cleared out..Now that all the bent and rotted material is gone, time to rebuild..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on October 21, 2023, 08:10 AM
Man you don't mess around. WOW!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 21, 2023, 09:52 PM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on October 21, 2023, 08:10 AMMan you don't mess around. WOW!

I have a sudden urgency to get as much done before the winter rains come..It would be nice if I can get the engine/trans out and in the garage, to rebuild it over the winter..

Pic 1..Everything of the new frame all tack welded and laid out..To fit the seat mount, gas pedal, opening for the brake lever and the steering column ..

Pic 2..Just tacked welded..In case you screw up it can be ground down to remove and reposition anything..There will be the access opening to the master cylinder too..

Pic 3..Once everything is set, I popped the frame out to fully weld it up..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 21, 2023, 10:03 PM
I have this decommissioned yellow Ryder moving van.  It is a 1994 and on a RV chassis..
It has the same Dana 70 rear end..and dual caliper front brakes and the same rear brakes in regards to width and wheel cylinder..

Pic 1.. Shows the van..It was for use when I was in the construction business..

Pic 2..I was thinking of converting the convoluted brake system that was originally on the D22 frame,,those 2 vacuum boosters ..and copy the system of the yellow van..with the single booster at the master cylinder..Modify the mounting bracket to fit the booster..and see if I can get it all mounted in..
If it won't work, I can still go back to the old system, and I will have spare parts for the yellow van..

Pic 3..I unbolted the mounting bracket from the frame..Easier to do work on it. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 21, 2023, 10:11 PM
Pic 1..I made a jig drawn in Autocad and then cut on my (Bwa Ha Ha Ha cough) plasma CNC cutter..Yes it is very nice to have one at your command!! This shows the start of the cut..

Pic 2..During the cut..

Pic 3..After the cut..It has the big center hole..2 original mounting holes of the original master cylinder..And then small holes to use a punch to locate the holes needed for the vacuum booster..Like I said, if this doesn't work, I can still revert back to the original configuration..Then I would have to buy and find hard to find parts..

I have right at 100 for this late model booster and master cylinder..easy to find too
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 21, 2023, 10:15 PM
Pic 1..Clamped the jig matching the original holes..Center punched the 4 hole locations..

Pic 2..Drilled the 4 new holes..

Pic 3..The booster fits..ready to be bolted up..Ran out of daylight..We will see what happens tomorrow..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 22, 2023, 11:22 PM
Pic 1..It fits!! :)clap I was concerned about that shock tower but all is good.

Pic 2..But to hook the brake lever to the booster will take a little modification. That arm will need to be rotated back about an inch..

Pic 3..No problem with tire rubbing the booster..About 5 inches of clearance..

Pic 4..Here is the arm separated from the brake pedal arm..Just need to rotate it back till it matches with the booster bracket arm..then weld it back up..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: eXodus on October 24, 2023, 05:05 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on September 24, 2023, 03:14 PMAnd Pic 4 shows the hole I drilled waiting for a 5/8 Grade 8 bolt for it

On my later model GM product the front shocks came with the 5/8 bolt and are just mounting in a hole in the frame.
You upgraded to a newer manufacturing method ;)  Great job by the way on all the metal work.

I need to learn welding at some point.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 24, 2023, 10:57 AM
Quote from: eXodus on October 24, 2023, 05:05 AMI need to learn welding at some point.

You can start cheap with a flux core wire setup. Where the shielding gas is created with the flux that is in the middle of the wire..As you weld, it releases the flux making the weld correctly.

Or more expensive with a bottle of Argon/CO2 mixed gas..It has MIG wire to use..

Welding tips and tricks on YouTube and a bunch of others channels will give you the basics..

What I want to really dive into is TIG welding..!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 24, 2023, 01:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/p3sCWg5PUt0

This is the engine that is going into my creation!!


Just kidding..But you never know!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 24, 2023, 09:50 PM
Pic 1..There is plenty of clearance between the shock tower and the master cylinder..No problem there.

Pic 2 and 3..After cutting the original welds for the brake pedal arms, the hole to hook up the master cylinder fits now

Pic 5..Then it was all welded back up i the new position :D To some people this looks like what would come from the aft end of a cat, but it is very strong.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 24, 2023, 09:56 PM
Pic 4..Now that everything is rearranged, the stop light switch doesn't fit..That bracket that hold the switch is 1/4 inch plate !!

Pic 6 and 7..To bend it, just cut it but not all the way through with a cut off wheel creating a slot..Then it is thinner and can be bent to position to make it fit properly..

Pic 8 shows the cut that make bending it easy..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 24, 2023, 09:57 PM
Now just weld the slot back up to restore the strength..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 24, 2023, 10:03 PM
I am working on the port wall now..There is a section where the black tank and the table with the seats are located..About a 5 foot width..Other than the plywood, nothing held that area up and it really sagged of the 50 years..

Inserting a piece of 1.5 square tubing at the edge where the wall and floor meet should add a lot of strength to it..

Pic 10..shows the straight metal with the sagging floor in comparison.

Pic 11.. about a 3/4 inch sag..It will all be strong and straight soon..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 25, 2023, 09:52 PM
This thing has the original 12V converter..PC-301-A-2

I wanted to get it out of the way while I am working on the walls..Yea, I think I will replace it ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: eXodus on October 27, 2023, 06:04 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 24, 2023, 10:57 AM
Quote from: eXodus on October 24, 2023, 05:05 AMI need to learn welding at some point.

You can start cheap with a flux core wire setup. Where the shielding gas is created with the flux that is in the middle of the wire..As you weld, it releases the flux making the weld correctly.

Welding tips and tricks on YouTube and a bunch of others channels will give you the basics..

What I want to really dive into is TIG welding..!!

Thanks, I never heard about flux core wire before. 
I was at a welding demonstrations and got the chance to work about 2 minutes with TIG welder - that was a neat experience. Like a micro torch which just melts the two sides without adding much material. And no or little sparks.

Pretty cool

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 27, 2023, 09:17 PM
Pic 1..Master cylinder and Booster installed..Needs new brake lines now..After the engine is out..

Pic 2..New drivers side floor board in..Need to fill it up with 1.5 inch foam insulation.

Pic 3..Access opening to the master cylinder..Need to make the cover.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 28, 2023, 09:04 AM
Quote from: eXodus on October 27, 2023, 06:04 AMgot the chance to work about 2 minutes with TIG welder - that was a neat experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxwX3DO8Mk

Here is a very recent video that welding tips and trick just produced. Excellent Video!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on October 29, 2023, 02:03 PM
I'm really admiring your work my friend. Your skills are pretty impressive.

 

 

As for the power converter, I replaced it with a charger of Victron Energy (made in USA, no China Junk ;) )

 

I really wanted this one, but at that moment I didn't have the funds

 

https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-12v-24v-48v-800va-3kva

 

so, I started with this setup

https://www.victronenergy.com/chargers/blue-smart-ip22-charger

https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-isolators-and-combiners/argo-diode-battery-isolators

 

together with a 225amps VMF-calcium battery it does an awesome job, but the good thing about these chargers is that when you are connected to shore power the main task is to charge your batteries, and the remaining amps up to 30A can function as a power supply. This means your batteries function as a buffer, and you always have enough amperages to feed your power consumption unless you are over exceeding it of course.

 

With this old power-converter power is switched from battery to shore power so all the work is done by the transformer.

 

In short: Power converter - All lights and 12-volt equipment on resulted in a power drop to 8 volts in my case.

Charger/batteries - 13 volts all the time.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 29, 2023, 08:10 PM


 

In short: Power converter - All lights and 12-volt equipment on resulted in a power drop to 8 volts in my case.

Charger/batteries - 13 volts all the time.
[/quote]
Quote from: Mlw on October 29, 2023, 02:03 PMI'm really admiring your work my friend. Your skills are pretty impressive.

Thanks for the compliment..It just seems like I will never get to the end of this!!

That power convertor, I really didn't understand how it worked..There is a relay that clicks shut when on..and you get power to charge your battery and work all the 12volt stuff..When shore power is off, the relay clicks off and direct power from the battery to run everything..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 29, 2023, 08:18 PM
This entry door has no step to get in and out..I took it out to rebuild everything..And now it is time to put it back in..And it needs to be stronger than it was..Felt like it was going to collapse everytime you stepped on it..

Pic 1..shows the open hole where the step and entry use to be..

Pic 2..Here is the old junk that use to be how you got in..

But I need to have the secondary fuel tank installed to be sure that the framing of the step will work..

Pic 3..If you recall, I cut two openings to clean out the tank full of rust..Welded a patch on top to seal them up.

Pic 4..Primer Rustolium rolled on..Black paint next..then hang it up and start on the steps after that..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on October 30, 2023, 04:31 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 29, 2023, 08:10 PMIt just seems like I will never get to the end of this!!


Trust me, I know the feeling. And seeing you going at it doesn't really ease my mind  ;)  :)  ;)

I guess my luck in this is that I have a C class with a cabin of steel instead of sheet aluminum, styro-foam and plywood glued together and the first owner gave the rv an anti-corrosion treatment. The only thing nagging me in this area is that the roof of my RV is very bad and lots of water has come into the rv, so I really don't want to open up the floor as it is not sagging, but the wood does stand up in the areas where the sheets meet.

QuoteThere is a relay that clicks shut when on..and you get power to charge your battery and work all the 12volt stuff..When shore power is off, the relay clicks off and direct power from the battery to run everything..

That's exactly how it works. The downfall of this is (or at least I think so) is that the power of the batteries is shut off and the transformer has to do all the work giving me the results mentioned before.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on October 30, 2023, 10:35 AM
Your gas tank a light color comes to mind, any thing one can do to prevent heat buildup is desirable. Modern gasoline boils at 160 degrees Fahrenheit, gas going upstream needs to be as cool as it can possibly be. Actually your build is so vast you might want to look into routing you gas lines so they don't touch the block in your engine bay area.

Those old steps you have and I have really need to be mounted very tightly. My steps also felt soft until I redid my floor. After remounting them on new flooring securely they are amazingly rock solid...a bit strange as matter of fact.

The enormity of your project is quite fascinating,you are meeting that challenge like a rock star.

Someday you will look back with amazement..yep I actually did that. Ohh you know your close when you hang curtains and realize they really suck. LMAO and then realize you might never be the same guy again...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2023, 03:18 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on October 30, 2023, 10:35 AMYour gas tank a light color comes to mind
I know what you mean by extreme heat. Take a look at the first picture..This is the area directly behind the engine..The paint is just cooked off of it..When the engine is out, I was wanting to install some sort of heat shield insulation ..

But for the gas tank shown earlier, that brown is the rusty metal primer ready for a top coat of flat black Rustolium ..In fact I just got back from Lowe's with the gallon of oil based paint..

Not too worried about the tank getting hot, but it does worry me when  see the kick panel with the paint cooked off of it..

SOOOO....I was looking at this Edelbrock (BWAAAA HAAA HAAA) EFI fuel injection for the 440..

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-35910/make/chrysler..

It has the center throttle body that would take the original intake filter..
And did I mention it is FUEL INJECTED!!!..

But coming back to reality makes me do some research on keeping the fuel cool on a normal carb set up..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2023, 03:32 PM
Quote from: Mlw on October 30, 2023, 04:31 AMTrust me, I know the feeling. And seeing you going at it doesn't really ease my mind

This is what you must do to keep up the enthusiasm for you project..You must look at it as several small projects to be started and then finished..

Example: That differential..Just getting it out without damage and up on saw horses..That was a small project that was accomplished..Stand back and say to your self.."Well Done"..

If you are looking at the whole motorhome seeing EVERYTHING at one time that need work and seeing a very long list..It gets you down..

But just do one item at a time and zero in on that one item till it is done..Then check it off your list..

Each check off of the list will have "Well Done"..

Looking over you project, you have a long list as you have shown in your posts..But you did a Great job on the rear brakes..check.."Well Done"..Next on the list...on and on..

It is like assemble of a 5000 piece puzzle..Each piece one at a time..Don't look at the big pile of pieces..Just look at the individual pieces..

Time to step down from the soapbox..Hope this gets you enthusiasm back..

Mike 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2023, 03:41 PM
Quote from: Mlw on October 29, 2023, 02:03 PMCharger/batteries - 13 volts all the time

I have been looking round for one of these converters..Plenty to choose from..And Expensive!!

But why not just an ordinary battery charger from Autozone?? Thay have inverter style chargers that put out 30-50 amps..Just have it plugged in to shore power, use the 12 volt leads and hard wire them in to the 12 volt system..
Every time you you plug in to the shore power, it comes on..like any other battery charger would
And some chargers have built in trickle charge to them..

Seems like a cheaper way to go..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on October 30, 2023, 10:02 PM
Pic 1..The secondary tank all painted up..still needs to dry..tomorrow it will be ready to install

Pic 2..I opened the floor a little more to reveal the mounting brackets that hang the tank..Just 2 angle pieces..They are 1.75x1.75 angle. If they had used 2 inch angle, it would help support the floor too..

I will get this tank in tomorrow and start working on the entry steps..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: eXodus on November 01, 2023, 06:06 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on October 27, 2023, 09:17 PMPic 1..Master cylinder and Booster installed..Needs new brake lines now..After the engine is out..

Pic 2..New drivers side floor board in..Need to fill it up with 1.5 inch foam insulation.

Pic 3..Access opening to the master cylinder..Need to make the cover.

Nice work,  with all the heavy metal you are putting in - are you going to upgrade to Hydroboost?

I've switched mine to a modern Diesel Pickup Truck unit:
https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/index.php?topic=16339.0

and it brakes like a dream. I have to be actually careful to not slow down to fast - otherwise all the things in the cabinets start moving lol ;)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 01, 2023, 10:27 AM
Quote from: eXodus on November 01, 2023, 06:06 AMNice work,  with all the heavy metal you are putting in - are you going to upgrade to Hydroboost?

There is a vacuum boost on the master cylinder..My Rockwood motorhome has a hydroboost on it and I was thinking of taking it from the rockwood. The problem is the pump for the hydroboost..Mounting it to the engine and setting up a fan belt for it..

The only pump that is on the 440 is the power steering..
On the Rockwood, that is on a John Deere chassis (1988), it has a separate pump for the steering and the boost..

So to fit the pump to an engine that was not designed for 2 pumps would have been a tremendous undertaking..

As for the heavy metal..It is not that heavy..16 gauge steel..Not heavy gauge ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: eXodus on November 01, 2023, 07:51 PM
I'm not metal person.

My RV has only one PS-pump.

First it goes into the hydroboost from there it goes into the steering rack. Both the Hydroboost and Rack have a return-line going to the reservoir.

(https://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/attachment.php?s=57347d000d31f7b3cf135f03413480cf&attachmentid=2251673&stc=1&d=1674228088)

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 01, 2023, 09:31 PM
I always thought that 2 pumps were needed..1 for each system..Anyway, I went with the vacuum booster setup as shown..It matches the same set up as my yellow Ryder moving van..And I use to load down that thing with all my tools and building materials when I was doing my general contractor work..

Pic 1.. Here is the aux gas tank installed..I put tape on the open holes on top of the tank to keep anything like dust or shavings from falling in..

Pic 2..Installed this front piece at the edge of the floor to hold everything up.. It had nothing before and the whole floor felt like it was going to fall through..Now it won't!!

Pic 3..Everything tack welded and clamped in place..The pullout step feels stronger even with just clamps and tack welds..

I am 6'-2" and weigh 240..And before I felt I was going to collapse the floor in places..Replace all the rotted floor and better support will fix all that!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 04, 2023, 09:29 PM
Working on the port wall now..The area below the floor line..

Pic 1..Start of the lay up using plenty of clamp to hold it all in place before welding it up..

Pic 2..Added middle pieces and started to weld everything..

Pic 3.. Same thing but from a different view
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: eXodus on November 05, 2023, 08:07 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on November 01, 2023, 09:31 PMI always thought that 2 pumps were needed..1 for each system..Anyway, I went with the vacuum booster setup as shown..It matches the same set up as my yellow Ryder moving van..And I use to load down that thing with all my tools and building materials when I was doing my general contractor work..

What works works ;)  Just in case you run into brake performance issues - diesel hydroboost is pretty easy and it makes those old rigs stop like a modern Van.

The sidewall of my RV are all foam and welded aluminum channels. Very flimsy, everything moves... lol.  your construction looks a lot more substantial.

How are you going to insulate?  Sprayfoam? cut board pieces or good old wool?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on November 05, 2023, 11:41 AM
QuoteThe sidewall of my RV are all foam and welded aluminum channels. Very flimsy, everything moves...

Yep, we are actually rolling the dice when we step in these things, but what fun it is (or so i seem to remember);)

Nothing wrong with living on the edge.  :grin:

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: eXodus on November 05, 2023, 12:32 PM
Quote from: Mlw on November 05, 2023, 11:41 AM
QuoteThe sidewall of my RV are all foam and welded aluminum channels. Very flimsy, everything moves...

Yep, we are actually rolling the dice when we step in these things, but what fun it is (or so i seem to remember);)

Nothing wrong with living on the edge.  :grin:

Yeah definitely don't want to have a crash in one of those boxes. But then you see modern cars pretty much desintegrating when they impact these days. So using up energy instead of resisting seems to be how crash worthiness is done.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 05, 2023, 12:35 PM
"The sidewall of my RV are all foam and welded aluminum channels. Very flimsy, everything moves."

I wish that my motorhome had ANY kind of solid construction..To have an aluminum extruded piece somewhere in this thing would have been a tremendous improvement..

But is was made of wood..wood that rotted with the slightest water infiltration..

Pic 1 and 2 show pictures when I first started looking at this thing and all the damage there was.

1 2x4 screwed into the wood floor was all that held the whole wall up..when you tried to remove the screws, they would just spin because the wood was rotted away..

As for the wall itself..it is a SIP design (structural insulated panel)..Not one piece of solid anything..not even the foam was 1 piece..It is a bunch of small pieces as shown in pic 3..

I plan to reuse the original foam in all the small places, but for the full wall I can get 4x8 sheets of foam board from Lowe's.. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on November 05, 2023, 01:03 PM
Are you going to seal up that wood in any fashion?

The rambler I have is built much the same as your Winnie. While there is some very robust structural framing most of the wall is made of very lightweight aluminum.But when one glues the foam to the outside wall and then seals the inside wall to the foam with glue it becomes quite rigid. One thing I noticed was Holiday covered the entire surface area of the foam board with glue on both sides . No gaps what so ever.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on November 05, 2023, 05:03 PM
...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 05, 2023, 07:52 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on November 05, 2023, 01:03 PMAre you going to seal up that wood in any fashion?

Are you talking about the inside roof rafters??If so, I didn't plan to.I was thinking that laying a good primer on the exterior plywood of the roof might be an idea..You see these videos of roofs that get torn out and half the wood is rotted because it leaked..Maybe a primer on the plywood might keep that from happening..But will the roll on glue used for a new roof stick to the primer??

Pic 1..All day on this laying up the area where the generator lives..You must have plenty of clamps and those magnet corner things help a bunch too!

Pic 2..Same thing, just from the opposite view
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 06, 2023, 10:16 AM
I can't stop shaking my head in amazement. Words just escape me to express what an amazing job your doing.Keep up the good work.Classic Winnebago's is going to have to have a rally some were when your done so we can check this old girl out in the flesh. :)clap 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 06, 2023, 08:21 PM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on November 06, 2023, 10:16 AMI can't stop shaking my head in amazement


Thank You..I appreciate the comment..This project has come along pretty far but there is a good distance to go..

The picture shows the whole section taken down so that I could totally weld it top to bottom..Next will be primer..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 07, 2023, 08:11 PM
I finally have a entry step all set up...Very Solid!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on November 08, 2023, 12:39 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on November 05, 2023, 07:52 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on November 05, 2023, 01:03 PMAre you going to seal up that wood in any fashion?

Are you talking about the inside roof rafters??If so, I didn't plan to.I was thinking that laying a good primer on the exterior plywood of the roof might be an idea..You see these videos of roofs that get torn out and half the wood is rotted because it leaked..Maybe a primer on the plywood might keep that from happening..But will the roll on glue used for a new roof stick to the primer??

Pic 1..All day on this laying up the area where the generator lives..You must have plenty of clamps and those magnet corner things help a bunch too!

Pic 2..Same thing, just from the opposite view

Based on the quality of your work yes I would shoot the roof with either a paint or sealer of some type. A house nope a RV yep, but that is just a opinion.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on November 08, 2023, 07:27 PM
Eyes open beat me to it again, but yes. Practically everything sticks to primer often even better then to the wood directly and as you say the wood will be protected.

I thing al the edges are going to be the biggest nut to crack, because all the edges are the no. 1 area where all rRV's start to leak.

Out of my experiences at the yacht broker, I'm going to polyester the complete roof and let it go over over the corner pieces on the roof site as you need to screw or nail them to the roof.


I want every screw to be covered with polyester as all the screws i removed from the roof already were all almost eaten by the rust and the holes of these screws were rotted out and very wet.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 08, 2023, 10:05 PM
Alright then, I will put it on the list..I wish I had done this earlier as today I was looking at the rafters and at the back right corner of the roof, the tarp had worn through from the wind and it rained and leaked..

But this happened last year and I didn't notice till yesterday when I was inspecting the roof..It is damaged..How bad I don't know yet
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on November 08, 2023, 10:57 PM
Well, put a screwdriver to it and see if you can stab thru. Wood will not rot immediately. It's a process if getting wet, dry up, getting wet, etc. etc. eventually the wood will delaminate and start to rot.

If it really is bad you can saw the bad out, make a fitting peace and I would then epoxy it in. This is what we did with wooden boats, and if you do it right, sand it afterwards and then paint it you won't see it anymore and the epoxy makes it more water resistant. That's why I go for an polyester roof over wood.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on November 09, 2023, 09:56 AM
Poly is really expensive these days, frankly outrageous. While I have no off the cuff substitute...I defer to a very old commentary...I almost fell off my feet reading it.

Any grease is better than no grease at all.  :shocked:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on November 11, 2023, 08:19 AM
Yes, the old USA is unfortunately catching up at pricing in Europe.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 11, 2023, 09:49 AM
I suppose I should have asked before hand. BUT I just purchase a Powder Coating Gun from Harbor Freight. Any thoughts.???????
https://www.harborfreight.com/10-30-psi-powder-coating-system-94244.html
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 11, 2023, 10:37 AM
Quote from: LJ-TJ on November 11, 2023, 09:49 AMI just purchase a Powder Coating Gun from Harbor Freight.

Yep! I had the same gun and it lasted me about 3 months..It works just fine for the hobbyist..

As you use up the containers that hold the powder, save them so you can use them for other colors you might want..If I recall, HF has black, white and red to choose from..But you can buy many other colors..

https://www.allpowderpaints.com/    This will show you what is available..Powderbuythepound...Columbia coatings..are other suppliers..

Do not use a gas fired oven..Flame and powder is not a good combo..Use a electric oven..

Before you use the gun, take the container that has the color with the lid on it and shake it up good..Like if you were shaking a can of liquid paint..

That loosens the powder and will cause it to flow out the gun easier..

The reason I didn't use this gun for very long is it has a habit of "puking" the powder..Meaning it will throw out a chunk of powder(blob) instead of soft powder every now and then..

It is easy to fix the blob on the part..you just lightly blow it off and apply powder over the area again..

I bought this gun back in 2009....

https://www.columbiacoatings.com/HS02-BASIC

And it just keeps going and going..But it is a lot of money for the hobbyist..

Just remember that the powder can be blown off if it pukes to fix it..So your HF gun will work fine..

Clean parts are essential..Ways to place the part in the oven without touching the oven is hooks and copper wire hanging ..

I would use the oven racks at the top and hang the part with copper wire to dangle below the rack..

Having a good ground is essential..With your power using 3 prongs, the ground prong acts as a ground..

But I drove a ground rod into the ground to use as the ground for the part..A good strong ground attached to the part is needed to make the powder stick well..

You can't over cook the part..You will see 400 degrees at 20 minute PMT on the powder (example)..

What that means is the part must reach 400 degrees for the powder to melt and adhere..
So a big heavy part, might take 15 extra minutes to heat up..then you start the 20 minute timer..

I have accidentally left a part in for over an hour and it didn't hurt anything and the part was well done..

Those numbers are the minimum time needed at PMT..Don't over heat it though..If it says 400 degrees, then do that number..no lower or higher..

Out gassing..If you have a greasy part, and you think it is all cleaned up..it is not!!

Down in the pores of the metal, when it gets hot from the oven, it will boil the grease and come up through the powder coat..ruining your finish..It will look like a zit on you face that popped..

Run the part after cleaning it, in the oven WITHOUT powder to full temperature..This will boil out the grease..cook it for 20-30 minutes..Pull it out, let cool and then a good cleaner like Simple green, clean it again..
Super clean is what is needed..   
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 11, 2023, 11:36 AM
Another thing...

When you buy the powder containers from HF..you need to unload some of the powder out of the container..To use a full container, will cause the powder to not flow correctly..Just store the unused powder in a seal able plastic sandwich bag..

What I am saying is you need an air pocket in the container to act as an area for the powder to float in the air before it is sent out to the gun..You need the air in there for the powder to fluff up to float ..
I usually have my containers 1/2 to 2/3 full..with the rest being air..And as you use the powder, just add more if it gets below that level..If you don't have enough powder in the container, then that can cause problems too..

Just keep the container about half full.. it will make it flow better and less puking..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 11, 2023, 12:12 PM
I can't remember the air pressure to the gun on the HF, but the gun I use, it is set at 20-30 psi at the gun..

You are looking for a light smoke of powder..Like if you were blowing cigar smoke gentle at the part..

To light and it take a long time to cover it..too much pressure and you are wasting powder as it blows by the part and never sticks to it..

The powder that misses the part and flys through the air will stick to anything that has a possible ground to it..Your garage door for example will be dusted..

Professional powder coaters have spray booths with filters to draw away the powder..

The best you can do for right now is go outside of the garage and let the breeze float the excess powder away..Don't powder on a windy day for good reasons..

Here in California, professional powder coat businesses are exempt from the clean air rules that so many regular paint shops must go by..

Just wear a respirator mask that we were all wearing when Covid was around..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 11, 2023, 04:28 PM
 :)ThmbUp  Thanks Mate.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 14, 2023, 09:21 PM
I haven't been able to do much lately..

Pic 1..Original door. I don't know if I can salvage it or not..

Pic 2 and 3..Fitting the generator access door..Fits..Need to make and weld in the corner pieces to the frame ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 20, 2023, 08:37 PM
Working on the upper left front corner..using the original wall as a template..Like I did on the right front corner..Fitting up to a tight fit really helps with the welding..If you have gaps in between pieces, make the welding difficult..

Pics show fit up and then tack welded..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 20, 2023, 08:47 PM
Opening up the corner..Everything is just rotted from all the leaks..It really poured into the poor thing..

Pic 1 shows how the corner was rotted away from the leaks..

Pic 2 shows the aluminum reacting to the steel frame..Direct contact and water leaking..

Pic 3 shows how the factory just chopped out a chunk of foam to fit the side light

Pic 4..Shows it all cleared out ready to accept the new framing..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 20, 2023, 08:50 PM
Just trial test fit up to see how it all measures out..

That whole front end that creates the eyebrow look is just gone..Total rebuild needed

Framing looks alright..Just tacked and now need full weld up..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on November 21, 2023, 04:37 PM
 :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 30, 2023, 08:17 PM
I am still working on the walls..I thought a break from that and start the engine removal!!

Pic 1 ..shows the opening to start from..Remove the front bumper to start

Pic 2..1-1/8 bolts wrench size ..One was stuck..I had to cut it off..

Pic 3..Bumper gone and set aside..It is a start..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 30, 2023, 08:21 PM
Removing the Trans cooler was easy enough..

Pic 1..The red fluid(suppose to be) is a bit brown burnt..This was the drip container when i removed the 2 lines.

Pic 2..removed and set aside..I am going to be setting aside a lot of things!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 30, 2023, 08:25 PM
Removing the oil filler tube is next..I think I will replace this with an ordinary cap at the valve cover..That will give me the excuse to remove the engine cover more often to check the engine out..

Pic 1..Pull the cap out of the valve cover..

Pic 2..bracket at the radiator

Pic 3..Removed and set aside
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 30, 2023, 08:30 PM
Pic 1..Bracket for the dip stick tube..

Pic 2..This front cross member will need to come off to get the engine out..I don't think I can withdraw the engine if it is there in the way..

Pic 3..Radiator out showing damage..dang!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 30, 2023, 08:32 PM
Radiator pic didn't post..Showing damage from the fan
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on November 30, 2023, 08:35 PM
Pic 1..The front of the engine..Take off one part at a time and picture it to be able to put it back together!!

Pic 2..Charcoal canister..Not hooked up so it wasn't doing anything but be in the way to remove the radiator..

More tomorrow..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 08:21 PM
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=2238&cc=0&pt=10068&jsn=964
Gates 20229 Upper

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=962023&cc=0&pt=10068&jsn=972
Dayco 70438

These are the links to the 2 radiator hoses found on this engine

Pic 1 is a terrible shot of the numbers..

Pic 2 shows the fan belt number that was on both belts..I think the one for the alternator could be used with something shorter as the adjustment was fully shifted out to nearly the max ..

Pic 3-4 shows the configuration as I found it for each of the belts..
I think there was a thread needing info on how the belts were installed..Hope these pictures help
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 08:36 PM
Pic 1..Removal of the fan and pulley..The fan clutch seemed good..Stiff to turn..

Pic 2..Front of the engine showing everything..

Pic 3..Wire colors to show how it was hooked up..

Pic 4..This was a picture to remind myself of he big spacer needed and to not forget to loose it!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 09:21 PM
Pic 1..Just to take a picture to show how the power steering pump is mounted

Pic 2..One of the bolts goes into the engine water jacket area and was frozen with rust..Just take your wrench and turn it slightly..Then tighten it again..then you can turn it loose slightly more..then tighten it again..Working it like this and it took about 15 minutes to work it out..no heavy torque or you will snap the bolt..

Pic 3.. shows the 2 nuts on the back of the pump..loaded with grease, they came off easy..

Pic 4..All the brackets for the pump..set aside!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 09:25 PM
Pic 1..Crankshaft pulley..Spiders and filled with dirt..Pretty sure with all that dirt that it made a vibration out of balance.

Pic 2..Pulley off with 6 bolts...

Pic 3.. Water pump off..

Pic 4..Inside the water pump housing..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 09:41 PM
Pic 1..This pipe that feeds the heater core keeps the one bolt from being extracted..

Pic 2..With a pipe wrench, I was able to spin it out..giving access to the bolt..I don't think this pipe is factory configuration..

Pic 3..195 thermostat..Has a hole drilled in it to allow the air trapped during a refill to burp through the system..Instead of being trapped behind the thermostat..

Pic 4..Looking down the pump housing..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 10:08 PM
Pic 1..2 bolts and the fuel pump is off..no problems and it looks like a recent change out..

Pic 2 and 3..Showing the throttle linkage and kick down..Just to help put it back together later..

Pic 4..The front cross member can be unbolted from the frame..Now I can just walk up to the engine to tear it down..Plenty of oil absorbent bought from Autozone to suck up the spills.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 10:18 PM
Pic 1..Edelbrock carb and I know nothing about them..Just know that this is NOT the stock carb..

Pic 2..After removing the carb ..Big thick plate under it..

Pic 3..Big difference between the primary and secondary plates.

Pic 4..About 3/4 inch thick..Help keep the carb cool..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 10:25 PM
Pic 1..That is a big hole ..All the better to suck the gas in!! :shocked:

Pic 2..Removed the distributor hold down bracket and the thing just popped right out..

Pic 3..Down the hole to the cam gear..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 10:36 PM
Pic 1..Valve cover off..Starboard side..There was no loose rockers..No collapsed lifters as far as I could tell..

Pic 2..I could not believe what was under the valve cover..NOTHING!! As clean as can be.. :shocked:

Pic 3..Both covers off..

Pic 4..Both covers are totally clean..I have no idea what to think of this engine!!

I hope everyone is enjoying the pictures..Lots of work editing and getting them uploaded?? :undecided: 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 10:43 PM
Before I pulled the dist. out I rocked the crank shaft back and forth to see the play in the timing chain..That is the degrees in slack of the chain..A pretty good amount..

Pictures show how far it is..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on December 03, 2023, 12:51 AM
Thats Quite a lot of work period end of story. Things look dirty but quite sound from here, just a aggressive power washer, degreaser some oxcylliac acid and finally some paint.

The carb must be the Quadra Jet clone, not a bad carb from what I here..1409? How far are you going to take the engine? 440's were the industry tourqe monster's...still are as matter of fact.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on December 03, 2023, 10:28 AM
That's a Edlebrock 1900 Series (spreadbore) carb.  Model number should be stamped on the front base

(https://www.jegs.com/tech-articles/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/edelbrock-carburetor-id-600x316.jpg)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 03, 2023, 02:13 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on December 03, 2023, 12:51 AMHow far are you going to take the engine?
All the way for a complete rebuild..I will take plenty of pictures!!

Quote from: DaveVA78Chieftain on December 03, 2023, 10:28 AMModel number should be stamped on the front base

The number is located on this tag,,1905..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 04, 2023, 01:58 PM
Yes, I for one appreciate your picturing and editing skills very much.

Now, I wouldn't put too much thought in the valve covers. As I don't watch television anymore, I save tremendous amount of time and a lot of it I invested in studying the 360/440 and one of the lessons is that the valve covers are notorious for leaking. Now if you have a previous idiot like me, he would just change the gaskets and forget about the filth so you get this

  (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/gallery/16109_09_07_23_12_40_19.jpeg)

  after I was finished with it this same valve cover looked like this:

  (https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/gallery/16109_11_07_23_2_26_35.jpeg)

 
I think you will be getting the picture here, probably your PO had leaky gaskets, and did/had a good job done replacing them.

 

Now your valve trains look pretty similar to mine. I've sent my heads to a machine shop to be checked and straightened and they both have a clean bill of health. Unfortunately, this shop only did heads.

 
Now I've read your story how you only could do 20 miles an hour limping the RV to its new home. The question is, next to you mentioning a fuel delivery problem, did you do a compression test, because this says a lot about your engine.

I did, and the results are in my project post. I had one cylinder with less compression and in this cylinder I found a broken piston ring, which is one of the reasons why compression can be down.

When I bought the the rv the engine started as I remembered from the RV my father had in the early 80's, and taking the state of the carburetor, I thought it did a pretty good job starting up.

(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/gallery/16109_04_12_23_1_21_59.jpeg)

However after giving the engine a big maintenance job changing the sparkplugs, wiring fluids and overhauling the carburetor with a kit  I couldn't believe how easy the engine started up and how smooth it ran and that is still the reason why I'm not giving up on this engine yet.

Now, seeying you go at everything, I don't think it will be of much use telling you to first test the condition of the engine and see of a rebuild is necessary, so maybe this will give you some inspiration when you are going at the rebuild. I know this guy helped me a lot rebuilding mine.

https://www.youtube.com/@JustMoparJoe/playlists



 











Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 04, 2023, 02:54 PM
Quote from: Mlw on December 04, 2023, 01:58 PMafter I was finished with it this same valve cover looked like this

How did you clean it so well?? A pan and solvent??

Quote from: Mlw on December 04, 2023, 01:58 PMNow I've read your story how you only could do 20 miles an hour limping the RV to its new home. The question is, next to you mentioning a fuel delivery problem, did you do a compression test, because this says a lot about your engine.

I found a very plugged up pick up tube on the main tank..Just stuffed with crud..Took a bit of effort to get it cleaned out with chunks of black coming out of the tube. The pickup tube for the generator was completely clean as the bottom of it is about 2 inches from the bottom and can't suck crud from the bottom..

But the engine pickup tube was about 1/4 inch from the bottom and suck up everything from the bottom..

I haven't had a chance to inspect the rest of the tubing leading to the carb..It will be interesting to see inside the thing when I am ready to open it up..

A simple rebuild kit is about 120-130 dollars!!

I never did a compression test..It was set in my mind that is was coming out..For as filthy as this thing is, it deserves a full rebuild.. 
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on December 04, 2023, 04:13 PM
I've learned a few things from your post, one being that carb you have is a direct copy of a 78/80 something truck Quadra Jet. Wish I had run into that eailer I would have gone with a new one.

From what I gather Cliff Ruggles actually sells a kit for that it should be about $80, you can call and speak with actually he's a pleasant matter of fact guy. It's a bit odd to be able to speak with a person of his depth on the phone over a kit...yet he does it. You will not find a more knowledgeable carb guy.

https://cliffshighperformance.com/

Call us at 740-397-2921 if you don't see what you are looking for..
We carry every Quadrajet part currently available and we'll build a custom kit with tuning parts exactly for your application
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 04, 2023, 05:15 PM
I cleaned the valve covers with a mix of diesel and petrol. you know, it's just the stuff of people put diesel in a gas tank or vice versa. Garages are happy to get rid of the stuff you don't have to pay for it 😂 By the smell of it I had the mix with more diesel.

As for the fuel line, just put a compressor to it at the outlet to the carb and see what happens. If a lot of crud is coming out, I would replace the line because I guess you wouldn't want this to happen when you are on a trip

https://youtu.be/dBDr6_D0w1I?t=14m43s

As for the price of a rebuild kit... Wow. You can also go for just the gaskets, ore just gasket material and make them yourself. You've shown us plenty of time you've got some skills 😉 

When you removing the jets and screws Just be sure to have exactly the right screwdriver especially with Phillip heads or else you mess up the Brass  heads guaranteed! Blow everything out with the compressor and an Ultrasonic cleaner does wonders if you have one.

As i've seen your quite the welder maybe you can set something up as this and check out what the state of the engine is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR_xLsUcu7Y



What i've seen is that even Ford and Chevy people have some form of respect for the 440. That should be saying something.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 04, 2023, 09:24 PM
Quote from: Mlw on December 04, 2023, 05:15 PMI guess you wouldn't want this to happen when you are on a trip
I watched that video awhile back..Just glad that nothing bad happened..to tear out the floor to get to the pump..To subject all this to his family..I don't think I could do that without a very complete inspection before hand ..

Pic 1..These are some heat shields on the port side..The mounting tab with the hole in was between the gasket and head..Creating an opening for oil to leak out..And it did!

Pic 2-3 here are the spark plugs..Toasty brown like they are suppose to be..

The engine was running fine other than the fuel delivery problems..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 04, 2023, 09:25 PM
First picture didn't load...here it is
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 04, 2023, 09:34 PM
https://youtu.be/dR_xLsUcu7Y?t=300
Yea that is some quality redneck engine running..I can relate to it all..

I don't think I will make a stand like his..Just mount it back into the frame and break it in..

Now for that fire of the sparkplug wire..Mine had the same thing happen as the pics show

Pic 1 shows the space between the header pipe and the spark plug..About 3/8 of an inch..Enough to fit the plug boot but touch the header also..

Pic 2..Here is the result..That would create a direct short and miss at that cylinder..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 04, 2023, 09:46 PM
Pic 1..Shows how the mounting bolt was cutting the rocker on the side of it..Also I can't believe the slop that the rocker has on the shaft..I guess the slop is taken up when it is all bolted together..Just seems you would get some rattle from that ..

Pic 2..Top of this valve is a bit messed up..

Pic 3..All the exhaust valves are double spring while none of the intake valves are..just single spring..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 04, 2023, 09:59 PM
Pic 1..Intake all unbolted..

Pic 2..removed and a look of the bottom of it..What a mess..

I think that this is the first time this engine has been torn down this far..

Pic 3..Apiece of plastic found in the valley..How and what??
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 04, 2023, 10:10 PM
From what I am seeing so far, this is a low compression smog engine..With the piston at TDC, the top is down about 1/4 inch..

And the way the heads are showing, it shows a low compression arraignment..

Here are the pics..

nothing broken..No snapped off bolts..No bad threads,,Looking good so far..

Engine is ready to come out now
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 05, 2023, 04:18 PM
Wow, you don't let grass grow over it do you 😂😂😂

Yes these are low compression engines. you can change that if you want. The sky is almost the limit... As the money you can poor in it 😉


Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 05, 2023, 09:14 PM
Quote from: Mlw on December 05, 2023, 04:18 PMWow, you don't let grass grow over it do you 😂😂😂
With all the antifreeze and trans fluid that I have spilled, that concrete will never grow grass ever again!! :grin:

I found a great website for the 440...

https://ultimatemusclecar.com/mopar-stock-440-horsepower-torque-hp-standard-all-yrs/

In 1972, the 440 lost over 100 horse power and 110 pounds of torque..

That is sad!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 05, 2023, 09:17 PM
Compression ratio chart..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 05, 2023, 09:22 PM
Pic 1..Engine hoist ready..Trans jack all set..

Pic 2..Remove the cover plate to take the 4 flywheel-converter bolts out..

Take one out, get out from under an go rotate the engine 90 degrees..get back under and do the next bolt..
When you work with no help, that is how it is..

Pic 3..Cover plate with all the bolts together

Pic 4..Transmission hoist all set..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 05, 2023, 09:27 PM
Pic 1..All the bolts out and engine-trans split apart..

Pic 2..Roll it out!! :)clap

Pic 3..Trans with torque converter..Looks lonely back in there!!

Pic 4..I dropped it into a wheel barrel for now..Need to get some bolts to mount it on the engine stand..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 05, 2023, 09:32 PM
Pic 1..Torque convertor

Pic 2..Trans wasn't ready to come out because of the rear cross member in the way..8 bolts and it was out

Pic 3..Cross member out and filthy!!

Pic 4..Trans out!! :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 05, 2023, 09:36 PM
Pic 1..Front view of trans..

Pic 2..Down the starboard frame rail

Pic 3..Down the Port frame rail..

Pic 4..Lot of work to get it all done now!! :P
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on December 06, 2023, 01:17 PM
It looks like you have a very good powertrain to work with...personally I wouldn't loose any sleep over compression ratios..in a heavy duty cycle motors high ratios are deadly.Getting more performance out of your existing combination would be easy there is a lot of smoke&mirrors around old 70's engine specs, the EPA needed cover kinda..they needed to make things "look"good

Below a good read on a stockish 440, pay some attention to rmryder..he understands just what he is talking about.

Disagree here EGT is a problem on all low compression BBM even with std cam
YOu have to give them lots of throttle to get them to even move and lots of throttle makes heat and gas mileage sucks- worse with Magnum cam and converter

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43392
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 06, 2023, 10:01 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on December 06, 2023, 01:17 PMI wouldn't loose any sleep over compression ratios..in a heavy duty cycle motors high ratios are deadly.Getting more performance out of your existing combination would be easy

I think you are totally correct here..
Headers..high end ignition..engine rebuilt...and I was looking at this cam..Pure mid range numbers..Slightly higher numbers over stock..Little more lift and duration..Not to crazy with a RPM range of 1500-4000..
I expect to be cruising at 60 MPH at 3000 RPM..This cam should do it..

https://crower.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=+32240

As for that forum..Wow!! did I ever get lost..numbers and terminology were flying over my head..
I got dizzy after the 2 page!! Had to give up!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 07, 2023, 12:21 AM
QuotePic 2..Remove the cover plate to take the 4 flywheel-converter bolts out..

Take one out, get out from under an go rotate the engine 90 degrees..get back under and do the next bolt..
When you work with no help, that is how it is..

Yep, Been there... Done that...

But what did they do with that RV, go offroading???

Another nice thing, Now the engine and the transmission is out you have plenty of room to do some rust prevention.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on December 07, 2023, 01:49 PM
Are you going with new pistons or is that still TBD?
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 08:16 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on December 07, 2023, 01:49 PMAre you going with new pistons or is that still TBD?

It has been determined!! New everything..This engine is totally original..All bearings are stock factory size..Piston bore is original.. :P

This is the first time it has been torn down!! And the way it spun over showed it was just worn out..Usually you feel friction from the piston rings,,Not so here..

Pic 1..Inside the oil pan..Some sort of plastic pieces as shown in the lifter valley was also in the pan..No idea..

Pic 2..I have never done a 440 Mopar before..It has a windage tray for the oil to be not wipped up by the spinning crank..

Pic 3..Took a rod cap off..Nice!! :azn:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 08:23 PM
Pic 1..I didn't have a harmonic balancer puller..Went to HF and got this..
These tools are starting to make the snap-on trucks nervous..

Pic 2..What is inside..This is also an installer for the balancer too!

Pic 3..I used the big bolt to thrust on..I was afraid the puller might damage the threads on the crank..

Pic 4..This puller didn't even grunt..Worked Great!! :D
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 08:41 PM
Pic 1..Take all the bolts off..

Pic 2..Inside the chain cover

Pic 3..Chain was sloppy loose..But it is original!!

Pic 4..View without the chain..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 08:45 PM
Pic 1..Original Chrysler issue timing chain!!

Pic 2..Full setup..

Pic 3..This rod is what rides on the cam to activate the fuel pump..You cannot remove the cam without this rod being removed first..

Pic 4..The rod removed..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 08:59 PM
Pic 1..Took a main cap off..Looks good :)clap

Pic 2..Cam out..For the miles it has, it looks darn good!!

Pic 3..First piston..That connecting rod is HEAVY DUTY!!

Pic 4..Standard bore..Original factory pistons ;)
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 09:11 PM
Pic 1..I center punched the rods to identify what hole they came out of..

Pic 2..Oil pickup tube is screwed into the block..And trying to unscrew it and it just snapped off..Need to get some sort of extractor to get what remains of it out..

Pic 3..The tube itself..metal fatigue..

Pic 4..All pistons out.. they pretty much just dropped out..Didn't take much effort to tap them out
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 09:23 PM
Pic 1..You need a 12 point..3/8 socket to get out the 2 bolts holding the rear main seal piece out..

Pic 2..That seal was just worn out and was leaking pretty bad

Pic 3..Crank ready to be lifted out.

Pic 4..All the main caps.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 07, 2023, 09:34 PM
Pic 1..Born on date..2/28/73..

Pic 2..Oil pump off..I like that the oil pump is on the outside of the block instead of inside where you need to remove the pan to get to it..

Pic 3..Oil sending unit was loose...and was leaking..
Everything was leaking ...seals, valve covers,

We can fix it!!

Will be loading it up this weekend to get it to the machine shop tomorrow..

here is where I am going to be taking it..This will be the 5th engine for me with them..

https://rpm-machine.com/
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 08, 2023, 03:14 AM
the sides of the rods should actually have the numbers on them. Top and bottom, so you put them together the right way and don't mix up the shells.

Markings main bearing keepers..jpg

As far as I can see the condition of all the materials seem the same as with me except the block  ;) .

The Fatigue in the oil pick up tube is very interesting. Could very well be the reason of the problem in my engine. The oil pump and the pick up tube were new and i actually found parts of the old oil pump still in the sludge in the oil pan

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 08, 2023, 02:38 PM
Quote from: Mlw on December 08, 2023, 03:14 AMthe sides of the rods should actually have the numbers on them. Top and bottom, so you put them together the right way and don't mix up the shells.

There was nothing there on mine. Here is 2 pictures of the same rod..No numbers on any of the rods

This other picture has everything loaded on the truck..on the way to the machine shop..

Edit: Wait!! there is a light number that has been stamped in it..I didn't see it till I posted this picture..
I need to find a good optometrist in my area
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on December 08, 2023, 04:29 PM
Will you bring those pistons to a helpful deck height? Lol I just help myself sometimes, what mfgs did to engine's in the name of emissions just kills me at times.

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/ideal-quench-height/

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 08, 2023, 05:51 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on December 08, 2023, 04:29 PMwhat mfgs did to engine's in the name of emissions just kills me at times.

From that link you posted...

"It's not uncommon for old-school, low-compression, smog-motor, stockers to have over 0.060-inch quench at TDC. We've even seen some '70s-era Chrysler 440 engines with the piston 0.150 inch or more down in the hole at TDC. Originally, this was done to lower compression and slow the burn rate in an effort to reduce detonation. Current theory is that this is counterproductive, producing more unburned gases and such a slow burn that the detonation tendency actually increases."

It seemed crazy to me to see those pistons down so deep. Chrysler claimed 8.1 CR..I think it was lower than that..


Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on December 08, 2023, 06:23 PM
More than probably mid 7's,but that was 40yrs ago and much has changed. Fuel formulations which have high methanol   content (slow combustion)and GM doing the vortec head design aka quench design. Flame travel Or propagation has quiet a effect on combustion/power&tourqe...and then there is the retarded cam timing and finally ignition timing which smog engines excel in and exhaburate poor performance...aka high heat and poor fuel economy
https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/quench-unlocking-performance-squished-between-the-piston-and-head/

No big deal however you are rebuilding that engine, just up the compression to the high 8's or very low 9's get the right cam and then some timing and your well on your way to 375/400hp and perhaps 475/500 lbs of tourqe. Now if your still required to do follow smog guidelines the above methods will not work.

https://store.440source.com/
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 08, 2023, 09:40 PM
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-2191/make/chrysler

This thing is a sweet manifold..Headers to go with it..Edelbrock carb (the one that I have, rebuilt)

MSD ignition, Crower 32240 cam..

This engine went 115000 miles in basically stock configuration..The only change was the headers recently added..and the Edelbrock carb.

With the cleanup milling that the machine shop will do, I think the 8.1 CR (stock) will be just right..

Long duration traveling, 7% grades over the mountains..Bumping the compression up makes me nervous..

If it takes me 16 seconds to get to 60MPH instead of 14, I can live with that..

Durability is what I want
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on December 09, 2023, 01:37 AM
I was spared the intake cost, a high rise literally will not fit into the dog house there is about 1" of clearance with the stock system.

I'm quite sure your combo will be quite a stout engine.

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 09, 2023, 02:15 PM
QuoteI need to find a good optometrist in my area

No need, with me it was exactly the same. I found the numbers by the pictures. The picture I posted was after I cleaned the rods up with the diesel/gas mixture and some numbers still are barely recognisable. I've learned to hit numbers in iron at school and the teacher clearly stated "only one chance to do it so make it a good one". I guess when you are doing it just for your paycheck you just don't give a rats tale about it  (some things never change 😂😂😂)


My engine will be off to the machine shop next monday. I'm seriously considering that if the news is good I let them  build the engine for me as i just can't find the right tools here to do it right, certainly when we need to go as far as changing things for better performance.

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 10:57 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on December 09, 2023, 01:37 AMI was spared the intake cost, a high rise literally will not fit into the dog house there is about 1" of clearance with the stock system.

This manifold that is from Edelbrock is not a high rise. Stock height..3 advantages to it over the cast iron intake..
1..It doesn't have the exhaust heating the manifold with the cross over passage..Keeps the carb cooler that way..
2..weight..much lighter than cast iron..

3..And the best reason of all..It looks Great on the engine!!

Quote from: Mlw on December 09, 2023, 02:15 PMMy engine will be off to the machine shop next monday. I'm seriously considering that if the news is good I let them  build the engine for me as i just can't find the right tools here to do it right, certainly when we need to go as far as changing things for better performance.

My machine shop wanted to build it for me for a price..Turned it down..I want to do that..
But he said it will take about a month to machine it all..They are very back logged..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 11:02 PM
Pic 1..Lets see what is inside..

Pic 2..Take off the tail shaft yoke..

Pic 3..Speedometer gear output..

Pic 4..Down in the hole
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 11:05 PM
Pic 1..Tail shaft off..clean inside..

Pic 2..Inside the pan..small pieces and brown oil..

Pic 3..Filter looks awful
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 11:09 PM
Pic 1.Valve body removed..Top side view

Pic 2..Valve body..Bottom view

Pic 3..10 bolts hold the VB in place..All the same length..No springs or balls that fall away..Nothing loose to worry about..

Pic 4..The guts!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 11:16 PM
Pic 1..Governor control piston..I took the picture to remember the way it goes back in..

Pic 2..Governor sealing rings..It has 2 types of rings..Somebody has done a messed up job on this..

Pic 3..Pump removed showing the back side..

Pic 4..This is the forward clutch..Only engaged going forward..In park, neutral or reverse, it is off..

Look at the snap ring and the last steel in the stack..Way too much clearance..
This trans was opened up before..And really did a terrible job..

I can fix it..I can fix anything!!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 11:21 PM
Pic 1..Forward clutch steels and frictions..BURNT!! BAD!!

Pic 2..The other clutch (I think it is the low reverse clutch) BURNT!! BAD!!

Pic 3 and 4..Taken apart guts..It has 4 pinion planetary gears that are the heavy duty set up..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 11:25 PM
More take apart pictures showing all the guts..I took these just to help me put it back together..

I am going to make this thing chirp the rear dual wheels!! Well, maybe not..But it will be done heavy duty right

Stay tuned..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: want a rv on December 11, 2023, 12:31 AM
Great thread! Can you provide a link to the 440 compression ratio chart? Thank you. :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 13, 2023, 12:11 AM
With one of these that I bought years ago...

https://www.harborfreight.com/40-lb-portable-soda-blaster-60801.html?_br_psugg_q=soda+blaster

And a bag of this...

https://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools-compressors/air-tools/blasting-cleaning/50-lbs-medium-grade-armex-soda-blast-media-65929.html

You can clean a part as bad as this tail section..Pic 1..

to as clean as it is in Pic 2...

Now I need to clean the body..Filthy!!..Pic 3..

You scrape as much grease with a trowel or wood chisel to get the thick stuff off first..Then blast away
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 14, 2023, 04:30 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on December 10, 2023, 10:57 PMMy machine shop wanted to build it for me for a price..Turned it down..I want to do that..
But he said it will take about a month to machine it all..They are very back logged..

Yeah well, I notice you have all the skills and the tools to do that. To get the right tool here you need to be willing to pay hundreds of euro's to buy the tool that you'll probably are going to use just one time. I'm not planning to build engines as a daily job.


Don't know yet what the waiting time for me is going to be. But I guess that for you it's the same as me, it's not a daily driver so it is not a big problem if it's going to take a while. However for me it will be a good thing when I can move the rv, so i can place it on a bridge and under a roof so i can finally can do something about the leaky roof of the RV.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 14, 2023, 08:03 PM
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/453b0q1ierofzm8r8i3e4/360-440-Dodge-service.rar?rlkey=iiyx2q3rso0umbmfz3mpnesay&dl=0

Quote from: Mlw on December 14, 2023, 04:30 AMI'm not planning to build engines as a daily job.

I am not either..I am just keeping myself from having to pay about 800..For that 800, I can buy the tools and learn how to do it myself..
Here is a link to the pages in that service manual that I scanned the electrical from.
This covers the 360 and 440 engines

After the machining is done, to put an engine together is fairly easy..

Tools off the top of my head that you need is a good torque wrench..1/2 drive up to 200 pounds rating..
and a ring compressor..maybe a feeler gauge..

The satisfaction of building it right and then seeing it run because you made it run..Priceless

I just don't like paying for a price for something I can do myself..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 14, 2023, 08:06 PM
Pic 1..After all the blasting..About 25-30 minutes..That baking soda cuts it fast..

Pic 2 and 3..Original numbers to the frame..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 14, 2023, 08:10 PM
Pic 1-2..Looking inside..Spotless. What is nice about the soda is it dissolves with water..Flushing all the holes and small areas out with a power washer..

Sand or other solid blasting media will not flush easy and one piece of grit not washed away and it will mess things up..

Pic 3..After the power washing..Then I blew it dry with compressed air..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 16, 2023, 08:00 PM
Quote from: want a rv on December 11, 2023, 12:31 AMGreat thread! Can you provide a link to the 440 compression ratio chart? Thank you. :)ThmbUp

https://ultimatemusclecar.com/mopar-440-compression-ratio-standard-and-440-hp-engine/

I didn't notice your question post..Here is the link
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 18, 2023, 08:41 PM
While I am waiting on the trans parts and the engine machining, here are some pictures of what I am working with when it comes to the frame rails..

Pic 1..Right rail with fuel lines and other tubing..All being ripped out..

Pic 2..On the left rail this is the speedo cable..Frayed to the actual rotating shaft exposed..

Pic 3..Pulled out and on the ground..

Pic 4..Fuel pump for the aux. fuel tank ( next to it is the right engine mount)..It wasn't wired up..This is the tank that I had to cut 2 large holes to clear out the rust..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 18, 2023, 08:47 PM
Pic 5..This is the relay to activate the starter..Where it is located. is next to impossible to service if it went bad..

Pic 6..Fuel valve for the Aux tank..

Pic 7..A custom bracket to hang the muffler system..Notice the bent bracket and quantity of bailing wire to hold it all together :rolleyes:

Pic 8..Some of the junk that is being ripped and replaced

What have I gotten myself into??
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 18, 2023, 08:52 PM
I removed about 6 more feet of the floor just to get access to the frame rails..showing the obsolete vacuum boosters..what a system!!

Random shots showing it all..After everything that needs to be removed is gone then a good power washing is in order..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on December 18, 2023, 09:02 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on December 14, 2023, 08:03 PM
Quote from: Mlw on December 14, 2023, 04:30 AMI'm not planning to build engines as a daily job.

I am not either..I am just keeping myself from having to pay about 800..For that 800, I can buy the tools and learn how to do it myself.. The satisfaction of building it right and then seeing it run because you made it run..Priceless

 
I just don't like paying for a price for something I can do myself..

 



 

Oh I hear what you are saying and I'm totally agreeing with you. I Promise you, if I had the possibilities for building an engine yourself as you guys have in the USA and covid wouldn't have happened, Betsy would at least been up and running and I probably would have done some test runs allready.

As it is, I just lost a complete year finding a machine shop that wanted to help me. Buying tools like a dial bore gauge, and a micrometer will set me back at least $1,000,=  You can rent these things (for free) or buy them for affordable prices in the USA because. building or reparing cars yourself is still a thing. Here majority of people lease cars. Everything is taken care off. As soon as the car gives an error, you take it to your lease company, and you'll be given an replacement car until it's repaired. Hell, the majority of car owners nowadays probably don't even know how to fill up the oil level if it's low. Back in the eighties every small village had at least one service stations with at least one mechanic that could help you fix problems with you car. It's all gone. The Netherlands in the past millenium and nowadays are two totally different countries that are incomparable.

But it is what it is. No use crying over spilled milk, Again thank you for all your help and the links. I truly appreciate it.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on December 19, 2023, 06:34 PM
I received my new cam shaft this morning.. :)clap

I love the smell of machine oil in the morning!!! It reminds me of..of..well I am not sure what it reminds me of!

Just love the smell..

Here is the cam and the specs..This is a low end torque setup..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on January 07, 2024, 01:20 PM
Mike I gotta tell ya mate,  you are the envy of every Classic Winnebago Owner. Between you and Dave have to be the two most amazing guys when it comes to owning one of these old girls. I can't imagine how many guys you have inspired to take on projects they wouldn't have thought of doing until you two came along. And lets not forget Mark who keeps all this together for us. Every day is like Christmas Morning waiting to see what new project you've taken on, done and how to do it. Keep up the great work. Love it. Respectfully T.J.

P.S. Thanks to all the others who contribute to the site because with out your help these old girls would have gone the way of the scrape yard by now. :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 07, 2024, 10:19 PM
Hi T.J.

Thanks for the Kind words..I am expecting two big items to keep going with this project..

The engine at the machine shop is suppose to be ready this week

And the parts needed to rebuild the transmission will be delivered tomorrow..At least that is what tracking says..

In the center of winter and hard to get away from the inside fireplace and go outside..

Here is a couple of picture showing an overall look of it..

There is nothing stopping me to complete this project..Just waiting for the weather to warm up some..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on January 08, 2024, 08:10 PM
In regards towards you cam, actually you may well know already. Hyd Flat Tappets and "Lifters" are having big issues. Spring pressure and Zinc seem highly critical. What once was taken for granted is not so much anymore. The world is changing.


https://www.chevelles.com/threads/flat-tappet-cam-failures-solved.1170029/page-2#replies

https://www.chevelles.com/threads/the-flat-tappet-state-of-affairs.1171868/
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 08, 2024, 08:50 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on January 08, 2024, 08:10 PMHyd Flat Tappets and "Lifters" are having big issues. Spring pressure and Zinc seem highly critical.


I know exactly what you are saying!!A big stink on the world wide innerweb about a cam manufacture that has a name that rhymes with stomp..

Here is a good vid from "Just Mopar Joe"


In the picture of mine, the tube of red paste came with the cam..It is a liquid that will drip off ,leaving your cam on the dry side if you are not starting it right away..

Having your shaft not lubed right is a bad thing :P  :rolleyes:

I am going to use the stuff on the left..It is a heavy grease that is stuffed with Zinc..That is the magic mineral that also needs to be in the oil at start up..

I have read many stories like the one that you linked to..But I noticed something that wiped cams(destroyed) have in common..

The engine builder starts the engine for the 20-25 minute break in..But almost immediately (maybe 2-3 minutes in) he shuts the engine off because there is  problem with the engine..

Maybe the timing is off..an oil leak..something..shuts off the engine and then restarts it...BAD BAD BAD!!!

Now the cam is dry because it was several minutes before the restart..And that wipes the cam ...

Keep the engine running..Have fuel in the carb to keep from long cranking..set your timing right..If a valve cover is leaking, keep running it..you can fix it later..

It is the restart that is killing the cam..don't do it..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 08, 2024, 09:38 PM

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 08, 2024, 11:30 PM
I did a little work on the battery tray..Rusty crusty from acid spillage

Pic 1..pretty bad shape but it is thick metal and wasn't burnt through with the battery acid

Pic 2..Quick sand blast to remove the crust.

Pic 3..First coat of the rusty metal oil based primer from Rustolium..maybe another coat of the primer and then 2-3 layers of the satin black top coat ..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Mlw on January 09, 2024, 10:46 AM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on January 07, 2024, 10:19 PMThere is nothing stopping me to complete this project..Just waiting for the weather to warm up some..

Hear Hear!!!

The temperatures in the Netherlands are between 28 – 16 degrees Fahrenheit at the moment with a feeling temperature of 16 – 3 degrees Fahrenheit because of the Northeastern wind.

I was hoping to sandblast and paint my rims, but with these temperatures the paint is never going to dry.

I received my transmission revision kits as well but forgot to order the assembly goo with it.  :-[  :'(



So nothing else to do then sit in a rocking chair by the fireplace. Only problem, I haven't got them...  :grin:  :grin:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 12, 2024, 11:06 PM
I received my engine back from the machine shop..Needs some final cleaning after I put it back on the engine stand..

Pic 1..Here it is on the tailgate of my pickup....Bored .030 over stock. Deck was done with just a clean up pass..No deep cutting..Crank main caps were line honed..New cam bearings..new freeze plugs..

Pic 2..Here is the steel crank(not cast)..It did not need to be cut down..Just a light polish..

Pic 3..Heads..All new valves..Exhaust seats..guides..seals and then a light clean up deck cut..

Pic 4..Everything else..Pump, rings, piston rods, gasket set, valley pan..

Everything is home and ready..Gotta get busy!! :)clap
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 12, 2024, 11:16 PM
Doing the math for the .030 over bore..What is the cubic inches??

Pie R squared is the area of a circle..My pistons are now 4.35 inches (stock is 4.32)
Making the area at 14.862 inches...

14.862x 3.75(stroke of crank) = 55.73 cubic inches..That is the displacement of 1 cylinder..

55.73 x 8 = 445.85 cubic inches

A stock engine 440 is actually 439.72 cubic inches
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 12, 2024, 11:35 PM
I need to open another thread for this rebuild..But I need to get the transmission done to get it out of the way..I don't have any room to have both engine and tranny going at the same time..

Here is a picture of the flat area at the front of the engine..Code for something..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on January 13, 2024, 12:22 AM
Just cast codes

https://www.enginelabs.com/engine-tech/a-guide-to-mopar-v8-cylinder-head-and-block-casting-numbers/
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 13, 2024, 01:23 AM
OOOOH!! WOW..!!

Thanks for the link Eyez.. :)clap ..There is a bunch to look at..

I will need to look at the block in the morning, but I brought the heads inside my house and could look close at them..

3751213 is the cast number..Just for motorhomes..and what makes them unique are the 2 holes that allow coolant to flow around the spark plugs..and the matching block with the holes..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 14, 2024, 02:38 PM
This is interesting..There is no serial number stamped in the location it is suppose to be..Just blank..As pic 1 shows

Pic 2 shows the casting number..Easy to read now that it has been cleaned.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Schmitti on January 15, 2024, 10:21 AM
Big & great Work  :)ThmbUp  I remember my work on my `76er Chieftain  :P

Greetings from Germany
Thomas
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 15, 2024, 12:58 PM
Hi Schmitti !!

Greetings from California, USA !! :)clap

All this restore is a bunch of work..Seems as though it will never end..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on January 15, 2024, 02:27 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on December 02, 2023, 10:18 PMPic 1..Edelbrock carb and I know nothing about them..Just know that this is NOT the stock carb..

Pic 2..After removing the carb ..Big thick plate under it..

Pic 3..Big difference between the primary and secondary plates.


Now that is interesting it would seem Edelbroch copied the entire line from Rochester/Thermoquad. That might mean you can trim the low midrange fuel circuit. APT function.




https://www.carburetion.com/Rochester.asp

The 1905 is near the bottom
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 15, 2024, 03:45 PM
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-1913

Maybe just set that old carb on a shelf and get this new one..800cfm is plenty for a mild 440
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: 70Chieftain on January 15, 2024, 06:24 PM
I was going to mention that Comp has a new DLC (Diamond Like Coating) flat tappet lifter, but it looks like they only have it for Chevy...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on January 15, 2024, 06:28 PM
Rebuilding a RV or a engine actually is a very personal kind of thing. My money goes towards a rebuild, Rochesters take no second place to any carb when done right. Square bores are superior above 500 up true...but I am biased you see I grew up building quads hated it at the time but now it's quite pleasing, and I can tinker with them and know what to expect.

Any way you go you can't lose...except uncle Benjamin's which I do with startling ease.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 15, 2024, 08:05 PM
Quote from: Eyez Open on January 15, 2024, 06:28 PMAny way you go you can't lose...except uncle Benjamin's which I do with startling ease.


I understand what you are saying..This project is costing me a fortune..It is all worth it..Right??

You made me take a second look at this carb..Here are some pics showing all of it's infinite glory  :undecided:

I guess the first step is finding a kit and then some sort of PDF manual with instruction how to tear it down..

I found this video on a new method(to me it is) to make these zinc and aluminum part like new..

I have an old Motorcraft carb core, that I will try this method on..

Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 15, 2024, 08:30 PM
https://www.ebay.com/itm/330611458681

Original Edelbrock kits are in the 130-150 range..

Just ordered this Ebay kit..Lot better price!

https://www.carburetion.com/CarbNumber.asp?Number=1904
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on January 16, 2024, 01:14 PM
Is it to late to order another kit? Ruggles kits are complete with everything you need. For instance idle mixture screws. His kits are 99 and complete no missing parts
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 16, 2024, 01:36 PM
https://cliffshighperformance.com/product/hp-quadrajet-rebuild-carb-kits

Wow!! I wish I had seen this earlier..Yea the kit I bought is on it's way..If it is missing something, I will look at this kit again
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on January 16, 2024, 02:35 PM
Quote from: RockwoodMike on January 16, 2024, 01:36 PMhttps://cliffshighperformance.com/product/hp-quadrajet-rebuild-carb-kits

Wow!! I wish I had seen this earlier..Yea the kit I bought is on it's way..If it is missing something, I will look at this kit again

That is the kit. Do yourself a favor call Ruggles and explain what your doing, asking for a little guidance. I've done just that, he's actually quite friendly as matter of fact. Get the numbers of your jets and your carb numbers as well. And yes he is knowledgeable enough to to tell you what you need right off the top of his head. By the way HP kits are generic, one needs carb no to get the right gaskets..
Small but big differences are present

Not A good guy to aruge with however he knows his game well. Aside from HEI tinkering lol that's another story I have no wish to expound on.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on January 16, 2024, 07:29 PM
Here is my problem right now...I don't have any room!! :laugh:

You need a very spacious area to lay the parts all out..

Right now I have all the transmission parts laid across the table..with the rocker arms getting in the way!!

I made the mistake of tearing the transmission apart too fast..And I didn't take very many pictures..So I am checking and double checking how everything is suppose to be..

When I get the trans back together, that will free up space for the carb..

One part at a time..till I am sure it is right..

Below the table top is all the sheet metal and assorted parts for the engine..It is the only spot I could find :laugh:
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: Eyez Open on January 17, 2024, 06:44 PM
Time for new build area maybe? Your build is enormous,tranny's engines structures...go big or go home? Lol your firmly planted there..great work and most of all great attitude!
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on March 17, 2024, 09:53 PM
Lets get some done on the box of this thing..the front face and dash area..lets rip it apart some more!!

Pictures show the front area..That eyebrow structure is what I'm going for...
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on March 17, 2024, 09:56 PM
Getting it off was not hard,,Will use it as a template to create a new piece..This front area is rotted at the edges..
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on March 21, 2024, 11:19 PM
Pic 1..After stripping the face clean and sanded down..plenty of rust to sand through..

Pic 2..First layer of primer..Another layer tomorrow and then a layer of satin black.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: LJ-TJ on March 22, 2024, 09:44 AM
 :)clap I can't help but sit here and smile every time I log on to check in on your progress. You are absolutely amazing Sir. Many of us are living Vicariously through you and your project wishing we had not only had your patents but your talents. Hang in there and keep up the excellent work. We all are learn tons of stuff complements of your efforts.
Title: Re: Mike's 1973 D22 Complete tear out. From the Roof down!
Post by: RockwoodMike on March 26, 2024, 11:09 PM
Hi LJ-TJ..

I have come a long ways on this..But looking at everything, I have a long ways to go!!

here is the front with the Rustolium Satin black..Just rolled it on with a short nap 6 inch roller..Being oil base with the primer and top coat, it takes a couple of days to dry enough to work it..

This Rustolium is a good paint for this.