Hey guys, I am in the process of converting our new to us 1988 Winnebago supercheif 454 into a tiny house to live in full time while I build our cabin. I have a coolant leak coming from the radiator when it is under pressure. I am in a bind because I need to drive it from my current house to my property (roughly 500 miles) within the next week or so. My question is about how much would a shop charge me to replace the radiator? I have never took a vehicle to a shop for repairs and have always fixed everything on my own but with the time constraints and me still working this week till I move it I might be forced to take it in.
Thanks a ton.
That is a bare minimum three hour job and that is if they have a new one ready to go in and all the trans cooler and oil cooler lines match up, the lines matching up is unlikely since the mew one will probably be a newer aluminum one and I have not found one that has the same line arrangement. So at least three hours labor at whatever the labor rate is in your area, probably 80-110 per hour. That is JUST labor I am quoting, no expendables. It will be more but it all depends on hoses, AC charge, belts. If it needs belts now is the time while they are accessible.
Quote from: Rickf1985 on May 29, 2017, 06:59 PM
That is a bare minimum three hour job and that is if they have a new one ready to go in and all the trans cooler and oil cooler lines match up, the lines matching up is unlikely since the mew one will probably be a newer aluminum one and I have not found one that has the same line arrangement. So at least three hours labor at whatever the labor rate is in your area, probably 80-110 per hour. That is JUST labor I am quoting, no expendables. It will be more but it all depends on hoses, AC charge, belts. If it needs belts now is the time while they are accessible.
Thanks for the reply. Do you think that finding a replacement radiator is going to be an issue or is that a common replacement on the older Winnebagos? Do you think it would possibly be cheaper to get a towing company to move it to my property and I could do the work when we get it up there?
I didn't have much problem finding one for mine and yours should be the same one. Unfortunately I don't have the P/N available but I will look tomorrow. Towing that far would be several thousand dollars and would not even be close to being worth it. While I don't necessarily recommend it BARS LEAKS does work on small leaks like that. If you use it be sure to block off the rear heater hoses and and the front heater if you can. This will prevent any chance of the heater cores getting clogged up with the Bars Leaks. It will not clog newer heater cores but once they get some age to them and get partially clogged with deposits then the Bars leaks will see the small passages as a leak and plug it. This could be what you need to get you to your new abode.
I just replaced mine with an aluminum single core radiator from RockAuto, it was make and p/n APDI 8011544. Took me way more than a few hours b/c I'm not a pro and I removed the A/C condensor to get at the radiator. If I had to do it again, I bet it would take me at least 6 hours total. It seems like that job would be at least $1000, maybe $2000 if you went to the wrong shop. I've heard that they will really stick it to RV owners.
I drove mine 600 miles this week with the new radiator and no issues, kept it nice and cool even in the Pocono mountains. So I can recommend that APDI radiator, it was something like $150.
The fit was perfect except the tranny cooler lines. The upper one needed a small extension made from 3/8" brake line, cut to length and inverted flared. It also gave room to add a T for my tranny temperature sensor while there, so killed two birds.
For you to get yours home though, 500 miles isn't that far. If it's a small leak just drive it home with one eye on the temperature gauge. I drove mine all last summer with the radiator leaking slightly. It would leak about a quart every 4 hours of driving. After shutting down and cooling, it would suck fluid from the overflow and I would top that off every time I saw it was low.
You can reduce the pressure on the system too by (when the motor is cool) opening the radiator cap fully until it comes up against the stops on the cap, just before you have to push down and twist to get it off. Don't do it when it's hot though, you might get a face full of scalding hot coolant. If you take off the radiator cap, fill the radiator with 50/50 coolant, and put the cap on loose you can run it that way and there won't be much pressure on the system so it won't leak out as fast. 50/50 coolant is good to something like 230F, as long as your engine temperature is below 230F then you won't be boiling off your coolant.
If you get the engine temperature up to that temp, you will know b/c it will start boiling and you'll see the steam. You could run that way a little while, enough to get over to the side of the road or a few minutes down the road to the next rest area Then shut it off and let it cool down before attempting to remove the radiator cap (see above face scalding warning), then refill with coolant and continue.
If possible, do it at night when hardly anyone is on the road and everything is cooler. You can drive based on your engine temperature without worrying much about other drivers.
Thanks for the reply. I just realized I said it was 500 miles. That is a round trip. I actually need to go only 250 miles so that is good. Mine is leaking a little worse than yours. Do you think a stop leak will help me get down the road without making too many stops. Also thanks for the part number and info on the new radiator.
do you know where it is leaking at?
i pressure tested it yesterday and found the leak was coming from the back side of the radiator near the tank.
If you are able to see where the leak is, it is possible for you to solder it if you are able to solder.
Not saying you SHOULD do this, but more than one time, when I've had a small radiator leak spring on me, I was able to run the rig home with the pressure release valve open on top of the radiator cap. Both times when I did this, it was my only option in order to get home, not for preparing for a road trip....Since you have a pressure tester, pinpoint the leak, could just be a hose???
And yes the stop leak will get you there but get the good stuff, not the store brand. And try to isolate or disconnect the heaters, that will save you trouble down the road. Usually you can just take one of the heater hoses off at the engine and cut the other one long enough to loop back and put it back on the engine. If you don't want to cut uit get a short length of hose. If they are two different sizes I would go with the smaller size and use Permatex Aviation cement on the smaller one and that will lube it up so you can force it on the bigger fitting. Remember, this is only temporary.
Quote from: legomybago on May 30, 2017, 02:34 PMNot saying you SHOULD do this, but more than one time, when I've had a small radiator leak spring on me, I was able to run the rig home with the pressure release valve open on top of the radiator cap. Both times when I did this, it was my only option in order to get home, not for preparing for a road trip....Since you have a pressure tester, pinpoint the leak, could just be a hose???
after pressure testing it I found it was the radiator unfortunately and not just a hose. Quote from: Rickf1985 on May 30, 2017, 06:42 PM
And yes the stop leak will get you there but get the good stuff, not the store brand. And try to isolate or disconnect the heaters, that will save you trouble down the road. Usually you can just take one of the heater hoses off at the engine and cut the other one long enough to loop back and put it back on the engine. If you don't want to cut uit get a short length of hose. If they are two different sizes I would go with the smaller size and use Permatex Aviation cement on the smaller one and that will lube it up so you can force it on the bigger fitting. Remember, this is only temporary.
. I got a bottle of the Barr leaks liquid aluminum from what I read it should do the trick. Any other advice on this stuff. Will the one bottle be enough? I never like using a fix in a can but am forced until I get it there. Thanks again.
I don't know about the liquid aluminum, If that claims to seal blown head gaskets do NOT use it. That is called liquid glass and it causes all kinds of internal problems. It is something the shady dealers use right before selling cars. The stuff I was talking about is plain old Bars Leaks, been around for 70 years.
This, http://www.g838.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10827
I saw the stuff you got while I was looking up the stuff I linked to and it is not the liquid glass I was worried about. It looks like it would be just fine. I have never used it so I cannot vouch for how well it works.
I will put it in later tonight or tomorrow and let you know the results. If I am only driving the 250 miles do you think it will still be necessary to block off the heater hoses?
I would since this stuff circulates in the coolant, where the coolant goes it goes. It sees any restrictive opening as a leak. Older heater cores have a lot of restricted openings due to age and this stuff will plug them right up just like they were a leak. Sometimes you can reverse flush them out, sometimes you can't. This stuff is good at what it does.
You can clamp the hoses shut with vise grips but use common sense here, it is a hose, not a piece of steel. You only need enough pressure to squeeze the two sides of the hose together. A heavy piece of cardboard between the jaws and the hose will protect the hose from the teeth on the Vice grips. One one each heater hose on the engine, two altogether. If the hoses are old the do not do it this way, they could burst.
thank you for all the advice.
So it looks like the Barrs leak stuff worked at plugging the leak. I am going to attempt the drive and replace the radiator when we get it to the property. Thanks to everyone who chimed in and gave advice. Thanks.
Best of luck and remember to flush the system before putting in the new one, no sense in getting any crap from the old setup in the new radiator.
So the stop leak appears to have worked for the short term fix. We are going to make the drive tomorrow morning. Thanks for all the advice
So i went out to make sure the leak did not return. Started it up and immediately the leak was 10x worse. Looks Ike I am not going to be able to make the trek before replacing the radiator. I am going to be forced to have AAA tow the vehicle. I have a AAA premiere membership so I still have 200 miles of free towing so the bill won't be too bad. I am going to order a radiator as soon as I get to my property. Just wanted to let everyone know the stop leak didn't work for me. :(
Did you run it with the radiator cap on from cold until it got hot and then let it run for a while? The stop leak work by finding leaks under pressure so if it is not squirting out it can't find it and it will not find it just sitting there overnight. You need to let it run and get up to temp with the cap on. Now if the radiator is so bad it is just blowing out then there is nothing that is going to work.
You may find AAA will not tow it under the policy because you are not broken down on the road. If you want to go that route I suggest you get started on your trip and THEN call them, that constitutes a roadside breakdown.
Yes I ran it at temp for over a half hour the night before. We called AAA and told them the situation and they said no problem. It is broken down on the road but luckily it's in front of our current house and not blocking the highway.
Just getting started doing this on my '86 Georgie Boy. Can anyone tell me the major parts of the repair -- for example, does the front clip have to come off? I assume the a/c (which is fine, dead for years) and maybe some brackets. But why does the local Chevy dealer say it will be three days of labor?
Because they want to rape you for 36 hours of labor at 150 an hour! I don't know how the front of the Georgie boy is set up but it is not that bad. The A/C condensor has to be either taken out or rolled forward and then the hoses and lines from the coolers removed and the coolers have to be taken out. This is about a 1/2 hours work. The radiator hoses and trans lines to the radiator have to come off and the shroud has to be taken off but left hanging on the fan. Then the radiator brackets have too be unbolted from the support and the radiator removed. This can take from a half hour to an hour and a half depending on the placement of the bolts. The entire job start to finish should not take more than a day.
Things to consider while radiator is out is full belt replacement and fan clutch replacement. These are items that are VERY hard to get to with the radiator in but right there in the open with it out. How many miles are on it?
I agree with Rick,it should take 8-10 hours unless you have someone who works very slow.I would replace the water pump and any thing that looks iffy also depending on the miles.Don't forget to replace any o-rings.
That was why I asked the mileage, water pump, timing chain. If you have to do the water pump the timing chain is right there. But the water pump does add quite a bit of time since ALL of the brackets on the front of the motor have to come off to get to it. Hence why you would do the timing chain at the same time, you don't want to have to pay all that labor twice.
These things are kind of like a snowball rolling down a hill! :D
Rick must work a lot faster than me. I think mine was on blocks for 2 weeks while I did the radiator. Takes me a 1/2 hour just to get the front end up on blocks and wheels off.
Good advice also to change out the water pump, all hoses and belts while there.
On mine, the front grill comes off, then in the wheel well the air deflectors come out and give total access to the sides of the engine from inside the wheel well. Not sure on a Georgie Boy but get everything as open as possible, it's usually worth it later to get that access open.
AIR system removal too if your state doesn't do a tailpipe sniff test.
Yeah snowballing for sure, but I don't remember the brackets for the water pump being that hard to deal with:
Front seal
Harmonic damper (put in a Fluidampr)
Timing chain set
Water pump
All hoses
All belts (delete AIR)
Plugs, wires, cap, rotor if you didn't already
You have to remember that he is getting a price from a mechanic, not doing it himself. Being a mechanic I had to be able to access a vehicle in the fastest and most efficient way if I was going to make any money without raping the people in the process. That was why I never had to spend any money on advertising. Word of mouth is the best advertising you can get but you only get it by earning it. The biggest problem with a lot of motorhomes is access to the engine. On mine I cannot remove the front body section so I have to work through the hood opening and then from underneath. Opening up the sides does nothing at all for radiator access. Just wastes valuable labor time.
It took me 2 hours to get to this point in 20 degree temps in my driveway. Notice all the bodywork still on the front of the RV, It cannot be removed so that makes things a lot harder. This job was mainly to replace a bad water pump but I also did the timing chain and it took me a total of 11 hours. consider that I am nowhere near flexible as I used to be and I have both shoulders with total tears of the rotator cuffs. A good mechanic in good shape can do this job in eight hours. And I did have to go back and replace the radiator a couple years later, took me about three hours. But consider that I already knew exactly what had to come out and what did not.
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Oh that stinks Rick. On mine, going in through the wheel wells gives total access to the sides of the engine. So on the right that lower water pump hose is easy to get off and on, the tranny cooler lines are right there too. Definitely worth looking at on the Georgie Boy to see how that's set up.
They're probably figuring about how much an RV owner would be willing to pay without driving him or her away. It's extortion.
I have a 1988 Holiday Rambler also built on P30 Chassis and need a new radiator (leaking). A couple of questions. The APDI 8011544 looks about right BUT it is only one core. Will that be enough cooling to replace what is in there? Spectra also has one that looks like it might work but also only one core.
APDI 8011544 = $107
Spectra premium radiator 1544 = $237
Is there a difference in quality?
Then there is also the option of having the old one re-cored. $500-$800?
Since we a traveling we will be stranded while the work is being done. A new radiator would be faster, but I want something that can do the job.
Decisions...Decisions...
Any input would be appreciated!
I have the Spectra in mine and I have no problems at all. It cools much better than the original copper radiator ever did. The first one in your list is far to this, that would work for a small block in a pick up truck maybe but not in this case.
But both are single core. What would the difference be?
Another weird thing - Spectra lists the core size as 28.125 inches High and 19.250 inches Wide. That can't be right. It has to be the other way around. I have an inquiry into Spectra technical support.
Thanks
I think you will find the Spectra core is thicker. Aluminum radiators and their cores are built completely different from copper they can make the core much wider with aluminum since it will not balloon like copper would. Contrary to popular belief aluminum will also give up heat as fast or faster than copper.
I had a local radiator shop - now out of business - rod out my old radiator for 225 bucks. I have it in my post history about the condition, but the old steel radiators cannot be easily replaced anymore and you are settling for the cheaper aluminum type.
Settling? They work great! And cheaper than having the old ticking time bomb re-cored. A new aluminum radiator is an upgrade.
Quote from: BrandonMc on June 22, 2018, 06:06 PM
I had a local radiator shop - now out of business - rod out my old radiator for 225 bucks. I have it in my post history about the condition, but the old steel radiators cannot be easily replaced anymore and you are settling for the cheaper aluminum type.
They are copper, not steel. But you spent more to have a 30 year old radiator cleaned than a new aluminum costs. And that cleaning does not restore all of the corrosion that happened to clog it up, it is still worn out and will fail soon. I could have rodded my own out but it was just not worth it. In the 80's they did not use the best of all materials for radiators so the lifespan is nowhere near like the 30's - 60's radiators.
My original radiator still works like a charm. But if it ever has a problem I will get an aluminum replacement.Aluminum radiators have larger tubes and cool much more efficiently then copper.
Resolved:
I found the PERFECT replacement. Superior Radiator in Mt. Clemens, MI. They also sell on eBay. 2 core welded all aluminum with transmission cooler. It fit perfectly. The other radiators I was looking at were 1 core aluminum and plastic. This one was $450, but if it lasts longer it will pay for itself in labor costs. Hope this helps someone else.
Quote from: wajell on June 24, 2018, 12:53 PM
Resolved:
I found the PERFECT replacement. Superior Radiator in Mt. Clemens, MI. They also sell on eBay. 2 core welded all aluminum with transmission cooler. It fit perfectly. The other radiators I was looking at were 1 core aluminum and plastic. This one was $450, but if it lasts longer it will pay for itself in labor costs. Hope this helps someone else.
do you have a link please?