I Just bought a 1989 Winn. 33RQ Chieftain on a Chevy Frame with the standard 454 and the transmission cooler hoses and pan gasket are leaking. So i need to know what maker/type, the 3 speed auto trans is: A turbo 400 maybe? Also while i'm under it should i risk changing the filter and anything else? It has a little over 69,000 miles on it and is in pretty good condition inside and out. Oh did i mention i bought it for $500 ?
Good price. It has a turbo 400 and those hoses are going to be impossible to find, especially if you have the same ones I have that go under the radiator and out to a combination AC condenser oil cooler in front of the radiator. I plan to take mine to a hydraulic shop and have them put new hoses on the old ends. It certainly can't hurt to change all of the fluids. Do not believe those that say it will ruin the transmission if you change the fluid. If the transmission goes out after the fluid change then it was on it's way out and would have gone anyway. If you drop the pan and the fluid is burnt and stinks and there is chunks in the pan then you will want to think about getting it rebuilt before it goes out on the road somewhere. And there will ALWAYS be a layer of brown stuff in the bottom, as long as it is not thick and does not have chunks in it then it is normal clutch wear.
That is a fantastic deal if it is in decent shape Yea to all Rick said . Hoses on older rigs are easiest made by Hydralic hose shop If you can locate originals they may not be the same anyway ! Frank
We need to change our transmission fluid and filter ..just how hard is it to do ?
It's real easy. If you don't have a drain plug, loosen all the bolts and take out most but leave a couple in on one side to tip the pan and drain as much fluid as possible. After that, remove the other bolts and remove the pan but be careful, it's still going to have oil in it.
The filter will pull out and replace it. Clean the pan and install with a new gasket. I would either install a drain plug or buy a new pan with a drain plug. Bought one for a 700R and it was around $50 from Summit racing.
Fill and adjust fluid while it's running.
Most of the oil is in the torque converter so your oil won't be perfect but it's better than nothing.
If you see magnet laying on the pan, don't be alarmed it's supposed to be there. Clean it and put it back. It picks up metal shavings from wear.
They do make a siphon that you can get at auto stores or Harbor freight that will feed down through the dip stick tube. They are also used to pull motor oil out of boats (can't drain oil in a boat as the pan plug is over the bilge). Looks like a weed sprayer and sucks up most of the oil. Not very expensive and handy to have. Also reduces the chance of a mess when you have all the oil rushing out at one time when you loosen that last bolt :'( .
As pointed out A LOT of oil can stay in the converter, you may want to do it twice (just the oil part)
after running a few hundred miles. Whats in the converter mixes with the new, and more of the old stuff will be removed. You will only have to do this once in the lifetime you own it, and in my opinion worth some oil. Get the 5 quart jugs if you can find them (Costco in your area?).
Thanks for all of the good advice fellas. I need to get the rig backed up off of the hill it's on now so i can get the front end lifted up enough to get my biscuits and gravy gut under the thing so i can reach everything. I'm thinking since this motor home was in Florida and the west coast most of it's life, i better get under it and prepare it for a life of salt air coastal living here in Downeast Maine. The land where a piece of new raw steel starts rusting the second it goes outside...lol. I Spent some time going thru it all inside and found the only thing that doesn't work is a light switch, two light bulbs and the old style TV set and antenna. The center table between the two swivel captains chairs across from the couch is missing and the drink console over the dog house is also gone. Everything else is there including a new frig and microwave combo. The main flooring has been replaced with new oak prefinished flooring and trim. The fabric and curtains are in mint condition as is the woodwork. Depending on anything in the mechanical being worn out i still think i did good on my deal.
Yes you did excellent. As far as the fluid in the torque convertor, If you let it drip drain over night you will empty the top 1/2 of the convertor also, (leaving less old fluid in the unit ). Note: some filters are bolted in, also some you have to replace a grommet. All come with instructions , If they supply a cork gasket, Do not use it get a fiber or rubber one, Also Straighten the top edge of the pan at the bolt holes, (on the edge of a bench). They will be slightly raised up from tightening ! do not overfill, better a qt low , Check after driveing a few miles and unit is hot ! Frank
I tend to disagree on the filling with Frank, NEVER underfill it and if it is overfilled a little it will not hurt. That does not mean two quarts overfull. Any excess will blow out the vent. which in your case will prevent some rust and get that tailgater off your butt. point being, if it in too low then the pump could suck air on acceleration when the fluid moves to the back of the pan. this will aerate the fluid and also depressurize the clutches and cause them to slip. So even though it means driving it for a bit with the dogbox off it is best to do it that way and get the level correct. You will get a new appreciation for just how loud an engine actually actually is, and how hot! W% :D
Does anyone put the Lucas transmission in their transmission ..we have used it in all of our regular vehicles and we dont have transmission problems ..we have used it in a truck that was having transmission troubles and it fixed it ..I have also used the.lucas power steering fluid in a grinding power steering pump and it quit grinding ..I heard about the lucas transmission oil from a guy that works on transmissions ..he said if you use it when you first get your vehicle you will never have transmission trouble ..he swore by it
I have not used it and I did testing on it many years ago for a person who contracted me to do very extensive real world testing of additives on his large antique and race car collection. The only one that I saw any kind of documented improvement with was Marvel Mystery Oil. NOW, That being said, that was 35 years ago and Lucas has been around for a very long time. I also was mainly testing engine additives and not transmission additives. It has obviously worked for you. I would say to keep using it. I have asked a friend of mine who has been an automatic transmission mechanic for 45 years about Lucas a few years ago and his answer was this. "If you think it works then use it." I said what does that mean? He told me that he has never seen anything bad come of using it and he has no way of proving that it makes a transmission last longer. As far as it repairing a worn or broken transmission, Ain't happening! You can't fix broken mechanical parts with a liquid additive.
I use Lubgard in my stuff and have for 20 years. Recommended by the largest trans shop in Portland (parts warehouse new and used, and rebuilders)
Just in case someone has high temp from his transmission - here some info:
When I bought my rig two years ago, I had trouble with the temp of the transmission... At my test drives the temp of the transmission was at idle 200 and on the freeway 230. The seller called his mechanic and he confirmed it was normal! The transmission and converter were exchanged in 2013 by this mechanic. Anyway I bought it and changed the transmission fluid to Dexron VI synthetic, changed the filter, flushed the cooler lines, installed 2nd trans cooler aaaaaand still 220 and the fluid level went always low.
After 2 weeks I figured out that on the right side of the transmission is an accumulator with a vacuum hose to the carburetor and this little accumulator developed a hole and sucked all my transmission fluid into the carburetor!
After a new accumulator and 16 quartz of Dexron VI (self flushing thru the leaking accumulator) everything went fine. Here in Phoenix I can drive at 110F and the transmission is 175 on the freeway. When I drive in 85F whether it is almost to low at 160. Hill climbing 200 but I never use my trans cooler fans... BTW the mechanic was wrong - sure he was a mechanic at AAMCO
Here the info to Dexron VI
The following chart represents the improvements over Dexron III.
Extended Fill Range = 100,000 miles Normal Use.
Change Interval = 50,000 miles Severe Use.
Clutch Friction Stability = Improved 100%
Clutch Durability = Improved 120%
Oil Film = Increased 20%
Fluid Oxidation = Improved 100%
Shear Stability = Improved 200%
Foam / Aeration= Improved 150%
I love the oil info, marketing at it's best! What is the difference between "extended fill range" and "Change interval"?
And all of the improvements expressed in percentages, and those percentages are amount over what standard?
Yup, gotta love marketing. :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao
tarifachris: Where is your tranny temperature sensor located? And what cooler did you install, and where? I was seeing 250F on the return line from the radiator this weekend while running up long hills and the outdoor air temperatures were cool.
I'm pretty sure an aux tranny cooler is in my future, on the hot fluid exiting the tranny, prior to entering the radiator. This one:
https://www.amazon.com/70273-SuperCooler-Black-Aluminum-Cooler/dp/B000CIGE9Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496243360&sr=8-1&keywords=70273-SuperCooler-Black-Aluminum-Cooler
My point was more that if your temp in the transmission is too hot you will wreck it...
If I remember correctly I changed the transmission cooler lines - first into the radiator and then to transmission cooler 1 and then to transmission cooler 2 and then back into the transmission. The transmission specialist had it first into the additional transmission cooler and then into the radiator... he even reversed in and out into the radiator in the wrong direction - but then the oil gets heated up again...
The lower transmission cooler was already there from the previous owner... I added an Oil-Cooler from Autozone who fit in front of the
Condenser - see pictures!
My transmission temperature sensor is definitely not in the lines or oil pan - so it must be on the transmission block.
If you measure the oil temp after the radiator it will always be the temp of the radiator! That was the reason I changed my cooler lines!
My 35 feet high floor Holiday Rambler has an GVWR over 18000 and I flat tow my car with it.
Heat is definitely the enemy, you sensor may be installed in a port on the tranny, I've heard about that. It sounds like you need all the cooling you can get on the transmission fluid.
On long pulls I'm seeing 250F fluid returning to the tranny while the engine head temperature was just over 210F, so the heat transfer out of the tranny fluid and into the coolant, in my new radiator at least, is not 100% efficient. I wasn't expecting it to be, but I also didn't expect it to be that high since the ambient temperature was cool.
I'm going to plumb mine from the tranny > aux cooler > radiator so that I'm not dumping all the extra heat into the radiator. Also so that on cooler days the fluid returning to the tranny is at the engine operating temperature. Getting rid of that heat asap with the aux cooler should increase the cooling capacity of the radiator when I need it most, and on cold days ensure that the tranny comes up to its operating temperature asap and run as designed.
That's my plan anyway. I've only got a few weeks left before we leave, and a laundry list of things that could use attention before our trip!
Now that i finally got my planting done on the farm i had some time to look at this $500 gem, but upon checking into the transmission leak i discovered the pan gasket isn't leaking but the grommet on the trans dipstick has a chunk missing in it and fluid is boiling over and finding it's way to the pan soaking it good. So to find out WHY and Where all this fountain of red bug juice is coming from i finally came to the realization that the transmission is shot and the last owners dumped to much fluid in it thinking that would make it stop slipping in first gear and reverse. So the only thing else i can think of might be the modulator valve or a vacuum line are shot or something else hopefully easy to fix. But i suspect with 69,000 or so miles it's probably taken a bullet to the bands and clutches. Anybody have any ideas? I Ordered a new filter and picked up a gallon of oil just in case.
Fluid would not have to "boil over" to leak pretty bad out of a bad dipstick tube seal. What are your symptoms? A bad modulator will cause late or no shifts until you let off the gas at high rpm. Check the vacuum line where it goes into the top rear of the intake manifold. Very common for that little piece of hose to rot and fall off and then no shift. Is the fluid brown or smell burnt? The 400 is about as indestructible a transmission as there is so do not just give up on it. Again, what are the symptoms?
All of the fluid is crystal clear red and new looking and smelling. I'll check the Vacuum lines tomorrow and i'll take a chance and go ahead and change the fluid and filter and gasket and check the pan lip for trueness and maybe pop for a Modulator valve. I Put a small diameter o-ring from my o-ring set on the front of the dip stick ring and that blocked the leak till i can find another grommet.What else can i check? Cooling lines need replacing/rebuilding the rubber hose parts. I've never had a T400 just a few 350's. I forgot to say that when i put it in drive, it does nothing until i race the motor up at least a extra 400 rpm or so before it starts moving and requires constant motor racing to move but shifts fast to reverse etc or park, just weak in gear.
Does it do the same thing in reverse? Have to rev it high?
He said it shifts fast into reverse Rick. The last couple of lines in his thread.
Yeah unfortunately it does it in all forward gears and reverse. It feels like it builds up pressure and finally like clutches are starting to grab it will move slowly then gets a little faster then will drop off if i let off the gas. But will move and puke a lot of fluid.
You said you stopped the leak at the tube so where is it puking fluid from? If it is coming out of the vent then it sounds like it is overfull and the fluid may be aerated to the point that it will not build pressure. If it is not over full then have more issues then burned clutches and bands. I would say that a clogged or dropped filter could cause the sluggish problem but not the fluid problem. If it is leaking out of the bell housing then it could possibly be a convertor seal or convertor itself. Either way the trans has to come out. Here is the good part, the 400 is about the cheapest transmission to rebuild. If you take it somewhere to be rebuilt mark the case with a metal stamp and be sure to tell them that you want that one back! This is a Turbo 475, not a regular 400 and you do not want them to keep this as a core and give you a standard 400 off the shelf. If you were near me I have a guy that does all of my transmissions and he is reasonable on price, and damn good in his work. I stopped doing my own and have him do them now since he is faster and has better access to the hard parts if needed.
Yeah it has way too much fluid in it for sure. There's a puddle in the driveway 18 inches wide and a trail out to the road and back where i drove it out to turn it around so i could drive it up on the side of my septic tank mound so i can get under it after i chock it and hook my tractor to it so it doesn't settle or roll back while i'm under it. After i got it parked i pulled the stick up and fluid is up to the top of the stick. So if i can get under it today i'll drain it and start in on it. I'm waiting on the parts delivery guy to drive 59 miles to bring me the filter. He won't be happy when he finds out he'll be back with the other stuff. Is there anything else other than the modulator valve, cooling lines, pan gasket, and filter that i can change out?
Not that I can think of other than the driveshaft seal if it was leaking but if you were that far over full and the fluid coming out was not foamy then the trans is probably toast. You can pull the modulator and make sure the pin is there. I am guessing you do not know the history of this unit so you do not know what, if anything, has been done with this transmission? When you take the modulator out there will be a pin in the end of it, do not lose it and make sue it is partially rounded on both ends. Sometimes people grind the pin to try to get higher shift points. Make sure you have a drain pan capable of holding several gallons of fluid. Nothing worse than having fluid pouring into your drain pan and approaching the top of the pan and you realize it is not going to fit. Keep a few bolts in the tranny pan in case you have to stop the flow.
I just realized you said you parked it up the side of your septic mound, (not a good thing for the mound!) but if the front is up in the air then be sure to let it roll back down flat when you refill it to get a proper reading. All the fluid you put in will be running towards the back and away from the pickup so you will need to get it flat before filling it.
The previous owner kept everything he did to it including service and parts receipts with notes but there are hundreds of them and i was afraid i'd have to search thru them sooner or later for info on it's history. I Think if it is toast i'll pull the engine and tranny together and get them both rebuilt at the same time and update whatever else i can.
If your front end is the same as mine then the engine has to come out through the drivers door so you may want to rethink that idea if the engine is running good.
I Was looking at the front end and everything is Bolted instead of being welded and it looks like if i jacked the whole front end up a bit i can get a boom lift in and maybe ease it up and out. It does look like it will clear if i get the front mounts separated .
Seems like it would be a good idea to drop the pan and change the fluid and filter and get it filled to the appropriate level. Maybe there's something wrong inside the pan.
I Finally got the filter delivered late this afternoon because it was apparently the only one in Maine and it was relayed driver to driver for 24 hours till it got here to the house...go figure. So if i don't get rained out tomorrow as predicted i'll get under it and drop the pan and look around inside good and report anything strange before i close it up with a new filter and gasket on. Then i'll check the modulator and get the old cooling lines loose so i can get those rebuilt and clean it up good before i refill it etc.
Well the rain stopped and i was able to get under the 33 RQ and after fighting one bolt jammed above the cross member i finally got the trans pan off and it was very clean other than a little thick grease with about four fine pieces of metal stuck to the magnet in the bottom of the pan. They were paper thin and very small pieces of metal so i'm not too worried about them. The filter was rusted inside the upper part and the grommet was cracked on it. The fluid was clear but i'm not gauging or basing an opinion on anything because other people had dumped so much new fluid in it. The two steel lines coming from the front to the back right side of the trans. have serious rust issues and are all dry and clean except at the two lowest points close to the ground and have fresh wet spots on both lines so they are done. The top vacuum line is cracked like elephant hide and is also shot so i may be getting a bit of luck or whether or not the trans. itself is o.k. So i'll just keep picking away at it till i'm sure it's ready for the road. While i'm under the beast i'll clean up and touch up the light rust issues and repaint the frame and storage compartment box bottoms and undercoat them. I Was surprised at how many drive shafts were under that thing and will probably replace all of the universal joints while i can get to them easily.
Be absolutely sure to mark all of the shafts at the joints and splines so they all go back together in the exact same position. Any mistakes here and you can have a vibration that will be very hard to track down.
The cracked grommet on the filter could have been the original problem (causing air to be sucked into the pump ) Possibly the reason for the overfill to supply fluid above the crack , With enough air in the pump it would be buzzing constantly, and quite possibly causing slipping of bands and clutches under load ! If there was no major wear from previous condition you might just luck out, Frank
I'm waiting on the modulator valve to show up now then i'll pull the rotted steel cooling lines off and take them to town to the NAPA and get some new ones made up. Then i'm going to replace the trans. cooler with a newer more efficient model and take the radiator out and get it dipped and rodded out if it's worth keeping and reinstall everything with new water hoses and clamps etc. My Dad used to say that you should "polish every link in the chain" to cover all your bases.
You can make new cooler lies with copper tubeing ,reinforced hose and clamps,or flared with fittings T hey do not have to be steel ! Frank
Do not be surprised if the radiator is toast. I put am aluminum one in mine and it works just fine.
When i looked at it up close it is heavy with chalk and corrosion to the point that flakes are coming off the cooling fins so i'll just change it outright when i change the trans. cooler. I Noticed when it was running and up to full engine temps. that the cooling fans were just barely moving. So i checked the fans and they seemed like they were sticking a bit and wouldn't turn easily so i'll have to find a newer more efficient upgrade. While i'm in the cooling business i was thinking of fabricating a air scoop to hang under the front bumper to attempt to throw more cool air up on the engine. I've built one before for a rat rod and built it to swing up out of the way if the scoop is hit by something in the road or if it's run into deep water but will drop back down to keep scooping air. I'm also thinking of rebuilding and redesigning the whole front clip below the windshield to draw more air into the front and to allow me to modernize the lighting and turn signals when i change all the guide lights to LED's.
Those electric fans in front of the radiator won't come on unless you override the temperature switch on the drivers side of the radiator end cap. Ground the connector and they should run. Otherwise they won't come on until the engine hits about 220F iirc. They are just supplemental cooling, the main cooling fan is the belt driven one. They also come on with the A/C on another temperature or pressure switch iirc.
Yeah that bolt over the cross member is not the easiest bolt to get at. I replaced mine with a socket head cap screw so I could just use an allen wrench on it. Much easier than trying to get a wrench or socket on it.
A new more efficient aluminum radiator for mine was $140 from RockAuto. One difference, since the endcaps are plastic, they didn't put in the temperature switch probably b/c the switch wouldn't be grounded in the plastic. I relocated mine to the water pump. Also the upper tranny cooling line (return to tranny) was higher and required an extension. I used that opportunity to add a tranny temperature sensor at that location so I could see the tranny fluid temperature after it had been cooled.
You found a cracked grommet on the filter, change that so it's not sucking air, pop in a new filter, fill with the appropriate volume of fluid and drive it. It's probably fine.
What's wrong with the modulator?
Change the vacuum line, cheap and easy.
I doubt NAPA will bend cooler lines for you, just get brake line and do it yourself with a double flare tool. The lines are 5/16" on mine, probably the same on yours. A tubing bender also helps but if the rest of yours looks good just cut out the bad section, flare the cut ends and put in the new replacement tubing. They make unions for brake tubing. You could also use brass compression unions. Just trying to save you some work and money, as mentioned there's not much pressure there.
The fans were turning slowly due to the airflow being pulled through them from the engine fan. My wiring had been hacked for some reason and as TM mentioned when you do to the aluminum radiator you no longer have the temp sensor so I just hooked them up to a switch on the dash and I can turn them on and off as I please. If I am in traffic I will turn them on and leave them on, It does make a difference. The factory temp gauge is absolutely worthless, It sits on the bottom side of warm. I have verified with the laser that it is running normal but I do want to put a full set of aftermarket gauges in there. I like TJ's gauge panel setup.
There are many tubing outfits on the web. Even if they don't have yours, you can ship them yours and have them duplicated. Classic tube and PST come to mind.
Any place that works on heavy equipment is usually set up to make lines, the problem is finding the ends.
The end on the radiator is a inverted flare (brake line) fitting. Not sure what the end is on the transmission, my bet is it's something common, this is from 1980s, might even be a pipe thread fitting. But if the bad section is cut out, a new piece of 5/16 tubing can be spliced in with two compression unions like these:
https://www.amazon.com/Dorman-800-142-Steel-Compression-Union/dp/B0049DXMZY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1497488220&sr=8-2&keywords=5%2F16+compression+union
Easiest fix, and cheap.
Even if the fans weren't supposed to be running the fan blades shouldn't have been too stiff to turn by hand. They are covered in baked on grease and i'm pretty sure they aren't worth risking keeping them. As for the Modulator valve it has a bad o-ring and a big rock/debris dent in the sheet metal housing right against inner tube and it looks like original factory stock. NAPA told me they can make new stainless braided hydraulic lines up for me if i brought the old ones in, but i need the new radiator and trans cooler first to make sure i have the right end fittings.
Whoa! Braided stainless lines from trans to radiator in 5/16 are going to be really, REALLY pricey I would think. You are talking probably 15 feet of line and that is not counting turns to go around things. I usually use steel line along the frame and then a section of low pressure hydraulic hose on each end for the connections. The hydraulic hose is designed for hot oil and will not degrade and is good up to I think it is 300 psi.
I just put in a new radiator ~4 months ago and aux cooler ~1 week ago including making up tubing from brake line (cheap and strong and OEM type) This is on my 1989 P30 chassis (1990 coach) . They are 5/16 steel lines. His being an 1989, I assume it's the same but whatever they turn out to be he should keep them the same as factory or bigger.
Yeah i decided to take mine off and send them off to have new pipe made to match and go from there. I just want to see what i end up with for a radiator and trans.cooler to make sure my front ends match up and i don't screw myself. Right now i'm sick of hydraulics and lines. I've been messing with a old Farmall super C trying to find out why my 3 point hitch hydraulic ram stopped lifting and spent all day taking everything off from one end to the other and i'm sick of it all now. The motor home can sit for a while.
I never saw a transmission with 1/2 inch lines, doesn't mean someone did not modify them somewhere along the line. The fitting coming out of the trans is 5/16 so there s nothing to gain by going with 1/2" other than holding more fluid.
Well I tried to order a Transmission dipstick top seal but ended up with the tube grommet with the right built in lips to seal the dipstick tube itself at the trans. but nothing available at Summit racing where i get a discount. I Even googled it under trans. dipstick seal, grommet, cap seal, wiper seal, you name it but no replacement seal like that or even any pictures of it can be found, but plenty of companies selling the complete dipstick , assembly. Any ideas? am i using the wrong terminology/name ?
That seal is part of the dipstick. Can't help with finding one though.
Well i suppose it's time to visit the junk yard. I'll take my dipstick and see if i can find a newer locking type transmission stick with the same diameter tube as mine and the right length then if i need to i'll remark the full level on the new stick if it doesn't measure the same from the bottom/top of the stick.
Or get an aftermarket from Summit.
I Found one this afternoon on a Wrecked box truck with a Chevy Motor. Now i need to replace the valve cover gaskets. Someone in the past reworked the passenger side head but didn't tighten down the valve cover bolts and the gasket swelled uneven and let oil leak down on the manifold making it smoke like hell, i just got some parts from UPS A few minutes ago. Now i can go to work finally.
Well lets hear if you got your transmission fixed ..I've been reading all 3 pages of this tread ..dont leave us hanging ..lol we want a happy ending :)