Classic Winnebagos & Vintage RVs

Topic Boards => Chevy - GMC Chassis => Topic started by: WyzrdX on May 06, 2017, 10:31 PM

Title: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 06, 2017, 10:31 PM
Hello everyone.


I guess I will start with the basics before getting to my questions.


I was given a contract that was supposed to be 3 weeks and turned into 12 months. So for 8 months we have been stationary in our '88 HR Aluma-Lite XL MH. Now the contract is drawing to a close and I am soon to be back on the road. I recently ripped out the cabinet and counter top to replace due to water (sink) damage. I am also working on replacing all existing water lines with PEX. But in order for us to get back on the road for any distance I think it is high time I did some mechanical work to the engine. There are a few things I am doing but I want to get some feedback.


These are the things I want to do along with why. Mostly I had the oil changed when I purchased it but that is all I have done.
OK now for my questions.
Sorry if there is a lot of questions but honestly could not find anything in the boards that was much help.

Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: stanDman111 on May 07, 2017, 05:46 AM
lots of work ahead of you
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 07, 2017, 09:57 AM
Ok, In order of asking. The alternator, you can replace it with a 140 but you will not gain much because you will only charge at 140 amps for the first 30 seconds or so before the regulator drops the rate down. The 105 will create less heat and last longer. The only benefit I see to change to serpentine is you are sadistic and like to subject yourself to pain. N:( :)rotflmao :)rotflmao :)rotflmao Seriously though, that is a LOT of work to change out all of that stuff and all you gain is the fact that you now have one belt and if it breaks you are dead on the side of the road. With the V-belts there is redundancy on the water pump which is the one that will keep you going in an emergency. Plus, can you even get to the idler when it is mounted on the motor home to change a serp belt?
The water pump, Are you sure you need a new pump? Is it making noise or leaking? The temp issue is probably not caused by the pump. It is more likely caused by a gauge issue than anything. Get a laser temp gun and verify th actual temp on the thermostat housing before ripping the entire front of the motor home and engine off to replace the pump. If you are that far into it you might consider the timing chain also, Once you see how many brackets have to come off to get to the pump you will see why I say that. It is a MAJOR job. If you do go through with it use a standard flow water pump. Hi flow moves water through the radiator too fast and it does not have a chance to cool and therefore the engine runs hot. Electric pumps are for hot rods and race cars and not for full time use.

Fans, Most units have electric fans in front of the radiator hooked into a relay that will come on if it gets too hot and when the AC is on. This is in addition to the thermostatic clutch fan. I do not think the electric fans are enough on their own.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 07, 2017, 01:04 PM
Thanks Rick for the reply. First thing, yes I have a big job ahead of me and its not daunting to me. And I have plenty of experience with complete rebuilds so this isnt scary.

When I got this from the PO it had sat for approx 6 years in storage. He opened the Barn/Shed where it was stored, Cleaned out a few squirrel nests (he said), flushed the water system, replaced the belts and hoses on the engine, changed the oil, refilled the radiator, added fuel and then started it up and let it run for approx an hour. Now all of this is according to him. He did have meticulously detailed records. Everything from Genny maintenance and usage to oil changes to RV system repairs. If nothing else he took care of this machine. His last service was before an 800 mile trip and he had new plugs and wires done, Oil change, and Radiator flushed. After the trip it was parked until I bought it.

Alternator is a necessity and a quick and relatively cheap job. And if there is no real benefit to switching to a 140A (I have added a few electronics such as, Back-Up Cam and a new in dash Navigation unit.) then its cheaper to go with the 105A.

As for the water pump, I have not laser checked the temp and I wondered if it were a faulty gauge or even the thermostat causing it to appear hot (via gauge) but I am thinking of replacing simply because of the fact he had it in storage for so long. I am sure it was well cared for but when thinking of damage possibility while on the road if pump fails, I just figured I would be on the safer side to just replace the pump before I go. And if I do ill stick with the standard flow. I know electric pumps are for rods just wondered if there were any benefit to them in an RV. I think I will leave the fans as they are. That's just a project I was considering since I will be in there.

Now about the serpentine conversion. I have done 3 such conversions. My first was on a 74 Brave with a 440. I actually increased from 5 mpg to 6.7 mpg just after the conversion. Also there was almost a 30 degree temp difference. Serpentine belts run cooler and last much longer than V-Belts. I was just wondering if there were any other benefits I didnt know about. But alas I am still not sure I want to do it on this one. Like I said I have done it before and its a chore replacing pulleys but not unmanageable. But if I replace the water pump and decide to not do the conversion. I definitely can't  go back and do it later or its a wasted of time and money.

Serpentine driven water pumps for the 454 run in the opposite direction than a v-driven pump. So I would have to replace the pump again.
So I guess it is back to the planning stage to decide what I really need to do beside the alternator. But my first job is to get the accurate temp at the thermostat so I can decide on the pump or fix the gauge/thermostat. I will update once I have the temps.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: tmsnyder on May 07, 2017, 07:29 PM
What Rick said above, with two additions.   Moreso than the water pump if anything related to cooling is in need of attention, it would be the radiator or fan clutch.  When you noticed the elevated temperature, did you notice the engine fan roaring??  You should hear that thing kick into action at high temps. 


Heck you may just need to clean the exterior of the radiator off.


105 amps should be fine.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 07, 2017, 08:29 PM
Hey TM,


Yeah I checked the radiator and it is clean on the outside. I didnt notice any roaring with the heat I do hear it kick in but not loud. And the heat was within range on the gauge just on the higher side. I was considering getting a new gauge with a digital readout for both Temp and oil pressure. My real concern since we live in this, As I am traveling I am always concerned with temps. Even in our drive around, I watch the gauges and I hate idiot lights.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: TerryH on May 07, 2017, 08:39 PM
Whomever coined the phrase 'idiot light' deserves five stars. The goof that invented them should be made to eat them all.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: tmsnyder on May 07, 2017, 09:13 PM
When that fan clutch engages it should sound like a jet engine taking off.  I wonder if your fan clutch is in need of replacement, they don't last forever.


interesting video looking at a bad fan clutch:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SbW1SDtMvg



Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 07, 2017, 09:17 PM
Or it may not be getting hot enough to fully engage. The clutch is usually pretty much fully engaged for a minute or so when you rirst start it in the morning and then the fan drops out just about completely. If you are not hearing this then the clutch may need replacing. I got the the super duty one and I have regretted it since it kicks in far too early, every time the thermostat opens the fan clutch kicks in going down the road.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 08, 2017, 12:22 AM
Ill check out the clutch when I start it this week. I never thought that may be the cause.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 08, 2017, 08:15 AM
It would only be the cause around town, On the highway the air coming in the front is more than the fan will pull.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: tmsnyder on May 08, 2017, 08:33 AM
This is probably true most of the time except on long hill climbs.   I hear the fan engage after the engine temp climbs above normal for a while, similar roar as when first starts up.  That fan really roars when it's working and moving air. 
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 08, 2017, 11:15 AM
When I first got it when it would sit there idling while I was warming it up I could hear the fan clearly. Recently I haven't noticed it as much although that could be because I have grown used to it and therefore have turned it out. Tomorrow I should be starting it up and I will listen for it again maybe then I'll have some idea if it's the clutch.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 09, 2017, 03:27 PM
OK Here is where I stand.

This AM I started her up and got her settled down. I ran her for about 25 min before I opened up the DH and took temp readings. Before opening up, I think I heard the fan clutch kick in but not much. At idle, temp got higher than center on the gauge. Temp was showing between the center and the red. Once I opened the DH, I managed to take the temp reading at the head and the intake. Head temp was 232 and intake was 201. Took the readings 4X and approx 2 min apart for each and only varied by a few degrees each.

I did hear the clutch engage but not extremely loud. There is an electric fan already in front of the radiator and it was running most of the time. It also is clear of debris.

So I assume either I have a bad thermostat or bad fan clutch. Unless there is something I am missing.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 09, 2017, 05:55 PM
What was the temp on the thermostat housing? Was it open. is the area between the radiator and the AC condensor clean? I would change the thermostat long before all that other stuff. Looking through your list of things to do I noticed you did not mention the heater hoses that run all the way to the rear heater on most of these units with a stop at the hot water heater. I also noticed you did not mention the very old fuel lines on top of the gas tank that will be in dire need of replacement by now. Not trying to tell you what you need to do with your own vehicle but the internals of e 454 are historically very durable and seldom need replacement before 75,000 miles. The stuff you are wanting to replace would be much better left alone in place of fuel lines and old water lines. Also a very good idea to rebuild the fuel pressure regulator before it starts to leak, and it will. And when it does it will leak BAD!!!

Your vehicle, do as you please.
Checking head temps with a laser gun is very inaccurate because you do not know if you are on a steam port or a water passage through the head or along the the head, or maybe not even on a water passage at all and reading combustion temps. Temps in the manifold of water just coming out of the head will always be hotter that the engine average. That is why you have to establish the temp at the thermostat and if in fact it is opening at the set temp.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: M & J on May 09, 2017, 06:08 PM
Having the fan shroud in place also makes a huge difference.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 09, 2017, 07:01 PM
QuoteHaving the fan shroud in place also makes a huge difference.


:)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp :)ThmbUp
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 09, 2017, 08:35 PM
I did check the temp at the thermostat and forgot to mention it. It was erratic at best. I could not get the same reading twice but it fell between 214 and 244.

Fuel lines were replaced when I got it. I have never rebuilt a pressure regulator so ill have to get someone to do that for me.






*edit*
Mind you all the temp readings were done while sitting idle. I assume they would be different once moving and is one reason I am going to be adding better gauges (read more accurate).
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 10, 2017, 08:45 AM
I would replace the thermostat, or your temp gun is off but if it has not been done recently it would be a good bet and is not that hard to do. The regulator is extremely easy to rebuild, four screws, a diaphragm and a spring. Finding it and getting to it are usually the problem. Mine was actually built over behind a cabinet partition! I have a thread on here somewhere about it.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 10, 2017, 11:31 AM
I had already planned to replace the thermostat when I replace the water pump. My only concern with NOT replacing the pump is the fact it sat for so long prior to purchase. The laser was purchased in December and AFAIK is accurate with other uses.


I will look for the thread. Finding the Pressure Regulator will have to be a priority. I will search for it and hopefully get it done ASAP if it was not done with the fuel lines.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: CapnDirk on May 10, 2017, 12:28 PM
Do a search on pressure regulator and/or holly.  Rebuild kit is only about $10, and four screws.  Piece of cake.  The search will yield pictures to so you know what to look for.  Generally in the area of the fuel tank.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: tmsnyder on May 10, 2017, 02:18 PM

Going back to to the original post plan of action (bullet items below): Alternators usually just stop working at all, lock up, put out max voltage, or pulse, etc when they die.  They have some quantifiable problem.  What do you mean it's not charging?   I would sooner suspect the battery is in need of replacement.  They don't last forever.   How old is the battery?  If it's over 4 years or so, it's due for replacement. This is going to save you a bunch of work:  it's not the water pump causing your elevated running temperature.  They don't stop pumping when they go bad, they leak out the weep hole on the snout.  This would be a waste of time and money, don't change it. Definitely do this, thermostat is cheap and again they don't last forever.  Don't do this, waste of time and money.  The factory engineers knew what they were doing.  Do replace the fan clutch, they don't last forever and a weakly engaging one could cause the symptoms you are seeing.  They are a bit of coin, I think the one I got was like $90 for the AC Delco brand.  Don't buy junk, you'll regret it. Don't do this, it's a waste of time and as Rick said you lose redundancy on the vital systems. Good idea, if your 88 is the same as my 90 this is in your front-most passenger side baggage compartment.  Remove the two screws holding on the carpeted rectangle of plywood facing the door, the filter is behind it on the frame.

Rick brought up the fuel regulator, I haven't touched mine but it may be located on the passenger side back near the fill neck.  I think I saw it last night near the tag axle and frame, if it's like my 1990.


From the readings you are getting on the IR reader compared to your dash gauge, it seems like your gauge is working fine.  Those readings are hot for an engine that's supposed to be running at 195F and the gauge is in general agreement.


And the electric fans also confirm that it's running a bit hot, those don't come on until the sensor hits 211F I think.  And the sensor is in the radiator unless it's been moved!!!  So  you're 211 plus in the radiator, you must not be moving any air over the radiator, my money is on the fan clutch.



Hope this helps.


Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: legomybago on May 10, 2017, 02:43 PM
QuoteI did hear the clutch engage but not extremely loud. There is an electric fan already in front of the radiator and it was running most of the time. It also is clear of debris.
The only time you should hear that fan clutch is at cold start up, then it should shut down after a minute or so... As long as you are only idling the rig.
The electric fans up front should just mainly be condenser cooling fans for the AC/defrost system. I have no idea if they are thermo controlled by the engine??
If you get out and drive it, do the temps drop?? If so, radiator.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 10, 2017, 02:48 PM
The fan clutch is thermostatically controlled so they lag a little behind the electric fans which are directly in the water. The fan has to feel the hot air coming off the radiator before kicking in plus I believe they do not fully engage until about 220 plus to give a cushion so it is not coming on every time the stat opens like mine does. $@!#@!
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: tmsnyder on May 10, 2017, 03:06 PM

Lego, the fan clutch engages the fan when hot air from the radiator heats it up to the setpoint, just above the thermostat temperature, ....when it is working.  You will hear that fan kick in after working the engine hard for a while, like climbing a hill.   It will sound like a roaring noise under the doghouse.  Idling in the driveway, mine (with brand new fan clutch) will kick in gently from time to time, noticeable but not a roar.


But when the fan clutch is no longer working, it doesn't engage, doesn't make the fan move air, and allows the radiator to get hotter than the fan clutch setpoint temperature.


The electric fans in front of the radiator are tied into the A/C system, yes, but they also run if the radiator gets hotter than it's supposed to.  Appendix 2-1 of the P30 service manual shows it, page 2-12, it's a thermo switch that closes at 221F, in the radiator.  So if the OP's radiator is running at over 221, that's hot.   It's either the radiator is plugged up inside or outside, or there's not enough air moving over the radiator.


Easy way to check would be to get a good sized centrifugal blower, like a 1/3 hp squirrel cage blower and direct the air at the radiator.  See if that air flow makes the engine temperature drop down.  If no change then it's the radiator.  If it does drop down then it's the fan clutch.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: legomybago on May 10, 2017, 03:41 PM
The fan is always moving some air, clutch engaged or not. If you have a clutch fan that is engaging off/on while idling in your driveway, your engine is running too hot, or you have the wrong clutch installed. MO. Clutch fan operation is for hill climbs or a (hard working motor), heat soak, and cold starts due to cold internal oil. Other than that, you shouldn't hear it much. This has been my experience with proper clutch fan operation. Being that we are talking about Class A motorhomes, some clutch fan "at idle" wouldn't really surprise me, there is a ton of heat under that dog house and everything is so buried in the front. My P30 doesn't do this, but my cooling system is only 4 years old too....so who knows.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 10, 2017, 03:51 PM
Or you can manually engage the fan clutch.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: legomybago on May 10, 2017, 04:59 PM
Quote from: Rickf1985 on May 10, 2017, 03:51 PM
Or you can manually engage the fan clutch.
Throw a rag into it?? W%
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: legomybago on May 10, 2017, 05:29 PM
I was making a joke. :)rotflmao guys...I would never throw a rag into a running engines fan.
I've heard of people grabbing a clutch/fan assembly while the engine is running WITH there hands for a testing procedure!! People are weird when it comes to clutch fans....Seriously...
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 10, 2017, 06:33 PM
Quote from: tmsnyder on May 10, 2017, 02:18 PM
Alternators usually just stop working at all, lock up, put out max voltage, or pulse, etc when they die.  They have some quantifiable problem.  What do you mean it's not charging?   I would sooner suspect the battery is in need of replacement.  They don't last forever.   How old is the battery?  If it's over 4 years or so, it's due for replacement.
When I say its not charging I mean the gauge is showing approx 10A output and as a test, I started it and let it run for about an hour with the headlights on. It was right at nightfall and we watched the headlights basically go so dim you could not see the bumper.
I took the battery (which was purchased in January) to the O'Reilly and the battery was tested as good but near dead. The next morning I started it and while it was running, I disconnected the battery. It died. Indicative of bad Alternator.

Quote from: tmsnyder on May 10, 2017, 02:18 PM
This is going to save you a bunch of work:  it's not the water pump causing your elevated running temperature.  They don't stop pumping when they go bad, they leak out the weep hole on the snout.  This would be a waste of time and money, don't change it.

OK I have seen no leakage of any kind. So I will reconsider that decision.

Quote from: tmsnyder on May 10, 2017, 02:18 PM

       
  • Remove Mechanical Fan and adding 2 Thermostatically controlled Electric Push Fans
Don't do this, waste of time and money.  The factory engineers knew what they were doing.  Do replace the fan clutch, they don't last forever and a weakly engaging one could cause the symptoms you are seeing.  They are a bit of coin, I think the one I got was like $90 for the AC Delco brand.  Don't buy junk, you'll regret it.

Already decided against this.

Quote from: tmsnyder on May 10, 2017, 02:18 PM

       
  • I also want to replace the Fuel Filters.
Good idea, if your 88 is the same as my 90 this is in your front-most passenger side baggage compartment.  Remove the two screws holding on the carpeted rectangle of plywood facing the door, the filter is behind it on the frame.

That helps. Ill look tomorrow.

Quote from: tmsnyder on May 10, 2017, 02:18 PM
Rick brought up the fuel regulator, I haven't touched mine but it may be located on the passenger side back near the fill neck.  I think I saw it last night near the tag axle and frame, if it's like my 1990. 

Mine doesnt have the tag axle but I'll look in the same vicinity.

Thanks for the input TM.

I am leaning to it being a bad fan clutch from what everyone is saying. And that will be an easy fix. As for the alternator, a bit more to it but doable. Hate the position I have to be in but that's ok I will have a scotch when I am done.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 10, 2017, 09:12 PM
Quote from: legomybago on May 10, 2017, 05:29 PM
I was making a joke. :)rotflmao guys...I would never throw a rag into a running engines fan.
I've heard of people grabbing a clutch/fan assembly while the engine is running WITH there hands for a testing procedure!! People are weird when it comes to clutch fans....Seriously...
This can be done but you have to know what you are doing or you will lose fingers. And at best even knowing what to do you could get stinging fingers if the clutch kicks in at that particular time. It is something you do to impress the uninitiated. there are much better ways to test the clutch.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 11, 2017, 01:29 AM
Well considering the battery tested good but needed to be charged and it is only a few months old it takes me back to its a bad alternator.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: turbinebronze on May 11, 2017, 04:00 PM
We would do a quick check of the alternator by running the vehicle at 2000rpm (alternators are designed to have max output at that engine speed), and turn on all the heavy load 12 volt systems (hi beam headlamps, heater blower on hi, etc..) and watch a digital volt meter on the battery. It should hold 13.5-14.0 volts with a fully charged battery. At idle, the battery should carry the load for a short period of time. (12.6 volts is a fully charged batt.) This is not a pass/fail for the alternator, but if is not putting out, your battery voltage will drop quickly.
  Just my 2 cents, Craig.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 11, 2017, 07:45 PM
Quote from: WyzrdX on May 11, 2017, 01:29 AM
Well considering the battery tested good but needed to be charged and it is only a few months old it takes me back to its a bad alternator.

Maybe, maybe not.
The B+ lead from the alternator goes to the large B post on the starter solenoid. However, there is a fusible link at the starter solenoid that will result in the alternator not working if it has blown.  With the engine off, make sure you have battery voltage at the alternator B+ terminal at all times (key ON or OFF).  No voltage means the fusible link has blown.  Also, the fusible link can start going bad due to heat and age (lots of current going through it) resulting in high resistance and screwing up the charging circuit.
On the small wire alternator plug, the Pink/Black wire (from ignition switch) should have 12VDC on it with key ON, engine OFF.  In most applications the small wire comes from the idiot light.  If an idiot light is not installed, then this line has to have 35 ohms resistance in it.

If you have the DUAL-NORM-MOM switch on the dash, then Charging of the House battery is via the Dual battery solenoid however, the battery B+ lead from the starter solenoid and the B+ lead from the chassis battery should be connected to the same post on the dual battery solenoid.

You most likely have a 1988 rig on a 1987 chassis (check chevy chassis VIN to confirm).  Your a Life member so the the service manuals for that chassis are in the member area for free.  However, the 1987 wiring diagrams are alomost impossible to decipher so I would use the 1988 drawing.  It will be 98% correct.
Power wiring diagram for the 1988 P30 Motorhome chassis (P32 model) is Section E, page 3
The small alternator plug connection is shown on Section E, page 17.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 12, 2017, 07:14 PM
Disconnecting a battery while running is a good way to screw up a lot of stuff, alternator included. The battery acts as a buffer to the voltage put out by the alternator. You pull that cable off and there is going to be a spike. could be small, could be huge. Electronic do not like spikes and neither do the diodes in the alternator. That is something that carried over from the generator days and for some reason people will just never learn.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 14, 2017, 01:02 PM
Turbine

I did check the voltage at the battery and I am getting approx. 9.6 - 10.2 A at the battery.



Dave

I do have an 88 on an 87 Chassis.
I have all of the manuals that came with it and from what I have seen the wiring diagram seems to be pretty accurate.
I have not checked for a fusible link but I will this weekend if I have a moment. I do not have the dual-norm-mom that I had on my Winnie. I do have an Alternate Start switch that allows me to use the house batteries for a jump so to speak.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 14, 2017, 01:52 PM
QuoteI do have an Alternate Start switch that allows me to use the house batteries for a jump so to speak.

Then do you by chance a Diode battery isolator that allows the Alternator to charge the house battery?

(https://www.classicwinnebagos.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.outbackmarine.com.au%2Fassets%2Fupload%2Fmedia%2FBlueSeas%2FACR%2520Diagram.png&hash=1e4050c239eaf78a467b93c91e6d467577abc227)

As you can see from the top drawing, the alternator connects via the isolator if you have one which could also create a no charge condition if the isolator diode is defective.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 14, 2017, 03:51 PM
I just finished installing a new Maxxfann and have not had a chance to look but as soon as I do I will report back. Although I may be asking for assistance in identifying. If I cant figure it out I will post pics to see what I have.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 19, 2017, 11:34 AM
OK since I had a few days to work on it I was able to get my Brother-in-Law out to assist. He works for a mobile RV repair company and he had a day off to help.


It appears it is the Alternator. There is a battery isolator which we pulled along with the alt. Both were tested at his shop and the isolator was good but alternator was bad. And I realized I need a new battery cut-off.


My question is should I replace the isolator as a precaution? It looks a bit old and like it has been through a flood. (ie. rust in places)

Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: DaveVA78Chieftain on May 19, 2017, 05:50 PM
As far as the electronic portion (diodes), those pieces last for years and rarely fail unless something happens that degrades them.  A large current spike could damage it.

As far as the rust, that would be the major concern.  Corrosion is the bane of electronic equipment that results in bad connections.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 19, 2017, 06:02 PM
I posted but it did not go through but this kind of goes along with what Dave says. I would say that a modern version with more advanced electronic controls would probably be a good bet. My main concern would be the voltage spikes. You have disconnected the battery while it was running which is most likely what took out the alternator since that is usually what happens. It also would have given that isolator a shot so it has been hit at least once with a spike. You cannot do that with alternators, you could with the generators of old but they were DC voltage and put out low amounts at idle. An alternator puts out AC voltage which is converted to DC by the diodes in the alternator and it puts out almost full charge at idle. Different systems, different times.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 19, 2017, 10:51 PM
Well for future reference I will NOT be disconnecting anything before checking here first  W%


So I guess the new alt and new battery cut-off. I will check all the wires and replace any that look bad or corroded. And I will definitely make sure all connections are secure and clean. However I am still a bit confused. Will the isolator be ok or with the rust should I just replace it? They are fairly cheap so not a cost issue.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Rickf1985 on May 20, 2017, 07:38 AM
You are replacing all the other expensive stuff so why not? One less thing to worry about. Just don't buy the cheapest one out there, the old adage of you get what you pay for applies now more than ever.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: WyzrdX on May 20, 2017, 11:51 PM
Yeah I always go for the quality over price. And since this is our home, I will do my research just to make sure I get quality.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: 1990HR on May 21, 2017, 04:31 PM
Quote from: WyzrdX on May 19, 2017, 11:34 AM
OK since I had a few days to work on it I was able to get my Brother-in-Law out to assist. He works for a mobile RV repair company and he had a day off to help.


It appears it is the Alternator. There is a battery isolator which we pulled along with the alt. Both were tested at his shop and the isolator was good but alternator was bad. And I realized I need a new battery cut-off.


My question is should I replace the isolator as a precaution? It looks a bit old and like it has been through a flood. (ie. rust in places)




If you are questioning it and it does not cost an arm and a leg, I would replace it.
Better to replace it under controlled conditions like your driveway than on the side of the road.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: TerryH on May 21, 2017, 08:01 PM
Ralph (HamRad Mobile) offered an intelligent, factual and knowledgeable reply to the OP's concerns.
I have often read Ralph's advice, comments and expert information here. I have also found them to be extremely helpful insofar as I am able to understand them.
I do wish I have the expert experience he does, but I do not. Regardless, he has helped me and others given his experience/knowledge.

Further, I rely on the font of expert advice that is freely offered on this site.
I would assume that members and guests that follow this site do so as well.

Rather than name names, you would be hard pressed to find the level of assistance on any RV site that you find here.

Mechanical
Structural
Transmission
Suspension
Appliances
Body
Tires
Travelling
etc....etc....etc...

We do on occasion add a bit of humor to a post or discussed subject. Please understand it is just that - a small injection of humor.
Title: Re: Water Pump Conversion
Post by: Oz on May 21, 2017, 10:48 PM
Very true!


Opinions are welcome from everyone.  Some are simple rules of thumb, such as, "When in doubt, throw it out." and, "If it isn't broke, don't fix it." which are as valid as any other advice since nearly all of us have used them to make our some of our decisions from time to time.  Other opinions are well formulated and expressed facts of knowledge and experience, backed with sound cause and effect reasoning based on technical principal.

If an opinion is a rule of thumb and no further technically backed and explained reasons are given for advice which is contrary to other information presented which is backed with technical explanation, then there is no reason to challenge such technically supported presentations with instigating interjections which amount to nothing more than trolling, which is what obviously has happened here and is against the forum conduct rules, as stated in the rules.


The posts have been edited and some removed to clean up this topic.