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Author Topic: 413 to 440 swap - important detail  (Read 544 times)

Offline rattlenbang

  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Member since: 2013
  • Year: 1973
  • Make: HaiCo
  • Model: Empress
  • Chassis: Dodge M300
  • Engine: 413
413 to 440 swap - important detail
« on: August 19, 2013, 03:39 PM »
I've been describing my 413-440 swap in another thread, mixing and matching parts so I don't have to replace the exhaust system and rad. But there's one complexity that hasn't been talked about, and I knew nothing about until now. The 413 uses an internally balanced crankshaft, so that means the harmonic balancer and torque converter are neutral weighted. But a 440 can be either internally or externally balanced, depending on whether it has a forged or cast crank. If it has a cast crank, it needs external weights on the harmonic balancer and torque convertor. Unfortunately, the 440 I put in has a cast crank, and the original torque convertor in my motorhome is neutral weighted. That means I have to pull the engine again and either replace the TC with the proper one, or get a balancing flex plate like this one. So much stuff I've never heard of, and finding out the hard way. I found out about this by a high RPM vibration that I put down to old motor mounts, until I decided to look into it further. 
So anyone making a 413 to 440 swap has to remember that all 413 engines are internally balanced, but a 440 can go either way.

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

  • Tech Support Specialist
  • *
  • Posts: 2742
  • Member since: 2003
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1978
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Chieftain
  • Chassis: Dodge M400
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413 to 440 swap - important detail
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 04:35 PM »
Almost all 440-3's are externally balanced.  The car version is where the forged crank was used.

Online Wantawinnie

  • *
  • Posts: 406
  • Member since: 2011
  • Year: 1973
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Chieftain II Custom
  • Chassis: Dodge RM400
  • Engine: 5.9 Cummins Turbo Diesel
Re: 413 to 440 swap - important detail
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2013, 12:35 PM »
Can't you just drop the transmission instead of pulling the engine?

Offline rattlenbang

  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Member since: 2013
  • Year: 1973
  • Make: HaiCo
  • Model: Empress
  • Chassis: Dodge M300
  • Engine: 413
Re: 413 to 440 swap - important detail
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2013, 03:39 PM »
Actually, after TONS of research, I stumbled on a google books table that gave the location, size and weight of the torque converter weights. Gonna make 'em up and tack weld 'em on through the inspection opening in the bottom of the tranny. What a relief! :)clap

Offline Froggy1936

  • *
  • Posts: 1054
  • Member since: 2004
  • I own: a Motor Home
  • Year: 1977
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Minnie Winnie
  • Chassis: Chevy G30
  • Engine: 5.7 1995
Re: 413 to 440 swap - important detail
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 07:40 PM »
Fantastic just a note : Welding will have to be electric (to keep from excessive heat to convertor and rear main seal. make sure they are thin enough not to hit rear of engine block . and welded well enough to stay in place . A piece of steel launching @ 5000 rpm will travel all the way through the roof of the camper  Unless stopped by a human in the way ! Frank
The Journey is the REWARD !

Offline rattlenbang

  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • Member since: 2013
  • Year: 1973
  • Make: HaiCo
  • Model: Empress
  • Chassis: Dodge M300
  • Engine: 413
Re: 413 to 440 swap - important detail
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2013, 12:24 AM »
Yup. The dimensions are 0.15" thick, so that should fit no problem. The stock ones are spot welded on, as they are only 20oz each. Shouldn't take much to hold them in place. I got a mig welder that I'll take to it, and suspect that I'll have to grind off a bit to compensate for the material I'll be adding. I wonder just how exact is has to be anyway. The plans I have show dimensions to 3 decimal places, and I can't believe they have to be that exact. it's the mass that's important anyhow, and that's a simple 2 weights at 50 grams each, no decimals.
You can buy them on ebay -two tiny bits of metal - for $50 bucks plus shipping  :)rotflmao

 

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