Author Topic: 413/440 Thermostat sources  (Read 21951 times)

Offline Daved27c

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  • Model: D27C
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  • Engine: 413
413/440 Thermostat sources
« on: March 21, 2009, 09:04 AM »
Sent: 12/18/2003


The 440-3 skirted thermostat (P/N 3512998) is no longer stocked by Chrysler.  Where can I find one?   Dave

Offline denisondc

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  • Posts: 514
  • Year: 1972
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: D23
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 413-1
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2009, 09:07 AM »
Sent: 12/19/2003

Even the Stant 2003 catalog doesn't call out any thermostat for a 413 specifically. You have to take it on faith that the 440 listings for a range of years would fit. And I have to admit, the 180 degree thermostat I am using now is the same as what would go into a passenger car 440. It worked properly in temperatures up to 100 degrees in the summer of 2002, but I had gotten the radiator cleaned just one year earlier, and had made up a steel liner to partly block off the cold-loop in the water pump housing. I am still seeking the 180 degree thermostat having the -skirt- or sleeve on its bottom. denison

Offline HAL

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  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Brave
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2009, 09:08 AM »
Sent: 12/20/2003

HI ALL.
  WHEN A BOUGHT MY 79 BRAVE THE OLD OWNER WAS FIGHTING OVERHEATING ALSO. HE HAD DONE EVERYTHING, INCLUDING REMOVING THE CLUTCH FAN AND INSTALLING A FIXED FAN.
 TALKED TO A OLD DODGE MECH. HE TOLD ME TO LOOK AT THE THERMOSTAT. THE CAR ONE WILL FIT OK, BUT ITS OPENING IS 1" SMALLER.
I REPLACED THE THERMOSTAT WITH A NEW ONE AND ALL MY OVERHEATING PROBLEMS ARE GONE...  THEY DO NOT MAKE A 180 ANY MORE. THE REPLACEMENT IS 190.
I AM STILL LOOKING FOR THE SPACER FOR THE FAN CLUCH TO MOVE THE FAN FORWARD, CLOSER TO THE RADITOR.
HAL

Offline Lefty

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Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2009, 09:08 AM »
Sent: 12/20/2003

Dave, We carry the correct type of thermostat for the 440-3 at work. Ask for a NAPA Superstat to fit a 1975 Dodge 1 ton pickup with a 440 eng. . This is the correct Wier-stat design. The weir-stat is a "fail safe" design, meaning it will only fail in an open position. not closed like a regular car thermostat. It is available in 195 deg. or 180 deg. or 160 deg. , The 180 deg. is the original temp. I posted the original threads you are referring to. I can get the part #'s if needed. Lefty
I reserve the right to reject your reality and substitute my own...

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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  • Year: 1978
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  • Chassis: Dodge M400
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2009, 09:09 AM »
Sent: 12/21/2003

Lefty,

Mopar P/N 3514774 (185 deg) and 3514181 (195 deg) both cross to NAPA THM 291
Both a 1977 dodge MBL300 440 engine (Class C Van chassis the other thread) and a Dodge 1 ton pickup with a 440 eng (the one you pointed at)
  Superstat:  NAPA P/N THM 532060 (160), THM 532080 (180) and THM 532090 (190)
  Regular stat: NAPA P/N THM 91(160), THM 191(180) and THM 291 (190)
Gasget NAPA P/N THM 1040ST
 
Unless the online stuff is not right, then the superstat one is what your referring to.  If you find something different please let us know.  I am just trying to save some people a bunch of research and questions since the usual suppliers like stant no longer list a thermostat and Mopar no longer has them.  I did see a catalog today at Auto Zone that listed a thermostat for M400 with a 440.  The pic of it even showed that skirt on it like Enigma's tstat.bmp one above.  Thing is, they then cross the book number to a Autozone number.  The one that crosses to does not  have a skirt.  Have no idea if that one would work.  So anyone looking be careful when looking for a 440-3 thermostat.  Only other skirted one I have seen is the modified (racing engine) Robertshaw one (Cooper-Standard) at http://www.stewartcomponents.com/html/products/thermostats.asp.  Sadly, Robertshaw does not have an online catalog yet.
 
Dave

Offline Sea Hag

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Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2009, 09:09 AM »
Lefty or Dave the air cleaner sticker on my 67 Cheif 440 3  has mopar part # 3837 609 and a drawing of the skirted type thermostat 185 degree - can you try to cross over this number ? the third digit was worn it could be 3887 609 - I know it makes a difference as the engine is ported differently than the cars or vans -  my dodge parts manual list the number Dave has 3514 181  as a 185 degree for 318 ,413, and 440 up to 1975  it was pictured as the none skirted type - we tried one a while back in my other rig and it still ran hot until we replaced it with the skirted type ---- Sea Hag

Offline denisondc

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  • Year: 1972
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  • Model: D23
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 413-1
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2009, 09:09 AM »
Sent: 12/23/2003

I want someone with a 440-3 to take a close up picture of the top of the water pump housing where the thermostat sits - but with the thermostat removed. And then post the picture. I want to see if it has the same kind of passages below the inner ring, as does my 413s water pump housing. The skirted thermostat I have is a stant 195f. I asked for the next number lower, which is a 180f, and it didn't have the skirt either. But I solved the immediate problem by making up my own sleeve to control the flow. I still want to get to the bottom of the thermostat mystery. denison

Offline Beatty1950

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  • Engine: 318
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2009, 09:10 AM »
Sent: 12/23/2003

Dave,
After the holidays I might be able to do that.  My cooling system is working well right now and I will be heading down to the Norfolk area tomorrow night in the Winnie so, now is not, shall we say, the right time.
 
Dave

Offline DaveVA78Chieftain

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  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2009, 09:10 AM »
Sent: 12/23/2003

Dave, The #'s you posted checked out fine. One note to mention, The Superstats have the skirt and the standard napa thermostats don't. Both will fit. The superstat is just more reliable since it won't fail in the closed position causing an overheat situation. Lefty


Offline MSN Member

  • Posts: 297
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2009, 09:11 AM »
Hi Dave
I have the "Stewart" catalog and also installed the stage 1 water pump & related componets in my 454 chebby.
Web site catalog is http://www.waterpumps.com
Tech line is (336)859-2555
Fax line is   (906)789-7825
Order line   (906)789-2816
Everyone will find them extremely helpful with ANY type of engine and heating problems.

Offline AllanCZ

  • 12 year member
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  • Year: 1979
  • Make: Winnebago
  • Model: Chieftain WDN29RT
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2009, 09:11 AM »
Sent: 3/14/2006

According to the pictures on their website, it looks like Checker/Schuck's/Kragen might have the skirted thermostats.

http://www.cskauto.com

Prestone Thermostat, Power Performance
PN's 370160, 370170, 370180, 370195
160, 170, 180 & 195 degrees respectively.
$12.99 each

We have Checker here so I'll go check in-store soon.

Allan

Offline AllanCZ

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  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2009, 09:13 AM »
Sent: 3/14/2006

Here's a link to it at the Prestone site:

http://prestone.com/index.php

Allan

Offline denisondc

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  • Year: 1972
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  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 413-1
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2009, 09:13 AM »

Offline AllanCZ

  • 12 year member
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  • Year: 1979
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  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2009, 09:14 AM »
Sent: 3/30/2006

Hiya Denison!

The Stewart site says the 304-306 thermostats are modified by them and have to be used with their Stage 2, 3 or 4 water pumps.

Are they correct for the "special apps" they list (stock), or do you have to also get their water pump?

Thanks,
Allan

Offline Easy

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  • Posts: 4
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2009, 09:14 AM »

Offline denisondc

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  • Year: 1972
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  • Engine: 413-1
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2009, 09:14 AM »
Sent: 3/31/2006

AllanCZ; As far as i can tell, the -modification- is just the little hole drilled in the sides of the baffle to let some water get by during warm up. You can use their thermostat with any water pump. All they are saying is that to get the full benefit of the skirted thermostat, you need to use a high flow water pump - sold by them.
But the water pump that came with a motorhome chassis would have been a -heavy duty- type anyway. (Unless someone has replaced it with a normal capacity water pump from a car.)

Offline Daved27c

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  • Model: D27C
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  • Engine: 413
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2009, 09:15 AM »
Sent: 3/31/2006

Hey Dave Denison,
Found this on another web site.   Does this describe the why you need to use a skirted thermostat?  - Dave
 
The Robertshaw 370 series thermostats have a dual function.
Unlike the flat disc-type t-stat, the 370 has a skirt that moves up and down.
If the t-stat housing is made for this unit, it will have a seat down below the skirt.
When the engine is cold, the water flows from the block through a bypass hose or passage, maintaining good flow in the block.
When the engine gets to temp, the skirt drops, allowing less flow through the bypass and more through the radiator.
When the engine is pulling a good hill (temp above setpoint), the skirt blocks the bypass completely, and the bulk of the flow is directed to the radiator.
Advantages include better flow in the block, better warm-up, and better cooling flow through the radiator.
There is no need for a rubber seat below the skirt. (Some larger t-stats of this design have a lip seal that rides on the O.D. of the skirt, allowing for more precise control)
Using a flat-type t-stat in a housing that has a bypass port will not allow full flow to the radiator, limiting cooling capacity.
Design is used extensively in bigger diesel engines.

Offline denisondc

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  • Posts: 514
  • Year: 1972
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  • Model: D23
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 413-1
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2009, 09:15 AM »
Sent: 3/31/2006

Yes, thats a good description. When the engine is cold, the water flows back around the cylinders, then up into the head at several points, forward through the head, and repeats the process.
The same -skirted- type of thermostat was used in many GM cars beginning in the later 20's. My 32 Chevy used the same design, but everything is about half as big.
My experience with the 413 in my 72 Winny is that the regular type thermostat will work -o.k.- If the radiator is clean and the fan clutch is strong; though the temp gauge will show up/down meandering now and then, even on level roads at steady speeds.
With the skirted thermostat, the wtr temp gauge needle pretty much stays on one place, except rising slightly on long up grades and dropping back down on the downgrade.

Offline ClydesdaleKevin

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Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2009, 09:15 AM »
Sent: 6/24/2006

I bought 2 skirted 160 degree thermostats for the Ark (413) from Summit Racing, and they even gave me a cool hat...lol...now, if I only wore hats...
 
Kev
Kev and Patti, the furry kids, our 98 Cherokee lifted beastie tow vehicle, and our 1995 Itasca Suncruiser Diesel Pusher.

Offline Mosin

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  • Engine: 440-4
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2009, 09:15 AM »
I order from Summitracing.com all the time...good prices and quick shipping. They have the skirted thermostats (Mr. Gasket #4367 for 440s). They have the copper gaskets as well, but I'm pretty sure not the brake

Offline toddabney

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  • Year: 1973
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  • Model: Brave D21
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2009, 12:26 AM »
hello,well i got a skirted thermostat and copper exaust gasket ordered.when i first contacted them there were not sure if they were skirted.the picture of #4367 dosen't show it being skirted and the guy didn't think it was.well i wanted to be sure i got a skirted one so i called back and explaned my worry and he looked one up and saw that yes it did have a skirt on it and they were going to change the picture. and so thats that.thanks again this site is great,todd

Offline drev59

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  • Year: 1973
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  • Model: Brave
  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2009, 01:51 PM »
Just placed an order at local speed shop for a Stewart Components #306 /195 degree thermostat. Currently my 440 has a Mr.gasket 180 degree installed and in the spring and fall it runs too cool. A huge improvement was replacing the stock clutch fan with a standard 6 blade fan. With the proper spacer block to position the fan in the shroud the engine runs far cooler than before. On the factory temp. gauge it barely gets to the first line. I installed a mechanical gauge and on warmer days (90 degrees) it stays around 185-190 max. Cool days below 180. I'll post the difference after I receive and install the 195.....

Offline drev59

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  • Engine: 440
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2009, 09:28 PM »
 Got my thermostat from Stewart Components and installed it. Went for a few test runs and water temp stayed between 190 and 200 on both cooler and warmer days. Will have a better idea how it works in a few weeks as we plan on going to Picton Ontario approx 6 hr. drive. Hope them fuel prices continue to fall...............
                  Drev59

Offline russmehl

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Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2009, 10:21 PM »
I had the usual success with finding the right thermostat...they said it was the right one... i??

But then I got lucky and found someone local!

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/thermostats.html

This is:
Detroit Performance Center / Mancini Racing
33524 Kelly Rd.
Clinton Twp., MI 48035
800-843-2821

info@manciniracing.com

Offline lumpy

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  • Chassis: Dodge
  • Engine: 440-3
Re: 413/440 Thermostat sources
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2010, 09:58 PM »
www.performanceparts.com   put in part # 4367   

mr gasket skirted thermostat

 

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